Prabhupāda: Why do you say, "I don't see Kṛṣṇa"? Kṛṣṇa says, "I am here, that, as prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ," But why don't you see?
Guest (3): God is there. But we want to see original form of Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That will take three millions of years to understand. (laughter) That is already explained. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). That is not so easy.
Dr. Patel: Māṁ vetthi tattvataḥ.
Guest (3): What is the method of seeing God?
Prabhupāda: Here, bhakti-yoga. That is, that is, that is the beginning.
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
That is being explained.
Mr. Sar: No, my doubt is that some people must have become siddha in this age also, must have seen Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: Oh yes. Why not?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even siddhas cannot see.
Mr. Sar: Yatatām api. But then there must be somebody of the siddhas...
Prabhupāda: Means... Those siddhas were satisfied, "Now I have become Brahman."
Mr. Sar: No, not those siddhas, satisfied.
Prabhupāda: And still, after that,
- brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
One is engaged in bhakti. They also, after many, many years, will understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: But in this age there must be some people...
Prabhupāda: There is always. Not in this age or that age.
Mr. Sar: Every, every, every...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, every age.
Mr. Sar: Then you must have seen Kṛṣṇa in the human form.
Prabhupāda: I, uh...
Mr. Sar: That is the divine form.
Prabhupāda: So...
Mr. Sar: Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ is the real vigrahaḥ of Kṛṣṇa form (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa, when viewed on the earth, He had that form.
Prabhupāda: No, just like...
Dr. Patel: That sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ form (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: ...a devotee sees the Deity of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Come here. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ is the real form of Kṛṣṇa (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: If you can understand it beyond the five senses of us.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: You cannot see with the karma eyes or hear him with these ears. You have to go beyond.
Prabhupāda: No, you can see. Just like with cataract eyes you cannot see. But if the cataract is removed, you can see. So similarly, to see Kṛṣṇa you have to develop attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ, yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. So you have to be free from the cataract. Then you'll see.
Dr. Patel: Cataract is the cataract of māyā. False illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means...
Dr. Patel: Am I right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to purify your eyes by bhakti-yoga operation. And then you'll see. With stick. With stick.
Dr. Patel: You see, you have to actually condition yourself to, I mean, receive... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...confirmed in Brahma-saṁhitā. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). Bhakti-vilocanena. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Those who have become santa and those whose eyes are smeared with love of Godhead, they see every moment Kṛṣṇa. They do not see anything but Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: Balaṁ balavatām asmi.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Kāma-rāga-vivarjitaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Now this is another seeing, another seeing, that one is very strong. That strong, strength is Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: Where does he get the strength from? Strength is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Kāma-rāga-vivarjitaḥ.
Mr. Sar: Dharmāviruddho bhūteṣu kāmo 'smi bharatarṣabha. That is a very important... Dharma aviruddhaḥ.
Dr. Patel: This... Please explain that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharma aviruddho. Dharma aviruddho means putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. Putrārthe bhāryā. Wife is accepted only for getting son, not for sexual intercourse. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. So when you have sex life simply for generating good son, that is Kṛṣṇa. And if you want to enjoy your senses, that is pāpa.
Mr. Sar: That's correct.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: If you take that way, then the...
Prabhupāda: If you take contraceptive and enjoy sex life...
Mr. Sar: That is not allowed.
Prabhupāda: That is mahā-pāpa. That is killing. This is going on. This is going on. All over the world.