Bhagavān: (break) ... complicated solution to the problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. These rascals, they do not know that our process is most difficult. Because as soon as ask them that "Give up meat-eating," it is very difficult task for them. And actually, it is very difficult for them. You see? That gentleman in Geneva, as long as I was talking about meat-eating, he became little disgusted.
Satsvarūpa: He said, "Why don't we speak of higher principles?"
Prabhupāda: Yeah. Because this is the beginning of higher principles. "No, no, this may let... Let it remain. Let us go to the higher principles." The rascal does not know that you cannot go without learning A,B,C,D, how you can ask for passing M.A. examination? But "No, I do not know A,B,C,D, but let me go for passing M.A. examination." You see. This is A,B,C,D, that yeṣām anta gatam... Any sinful man, he cannot understand about God. It is not possible. Paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. But without being pavitra, they want to go to the platform of understanding God.
Yogeśvara: Just like that Gene Herbert.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: Just like that Sanskritist in Geneva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "I, I am smoking. I do not like to give it up." (laughter) You see.
Bhagavān: I think from here we have to walk on the sidewalk. There may be cars coming.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: Let Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: It is very, very difficult for them. To give up intoxication, especially in the western countries. That Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland, when one of my godbrothers went to London for preaching, so Lord Zetland said, "Can you make me a brāhmaṇa?" And then he said, "Yes, why not? You have to give up these things: no illicit sex, no intoxication." He said, "Oh, it is impossible. For us, it is impossible." So actually, these four prohibitory rules is impossible for these rascals.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They would rather die than give them up, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the... Even our men, after so much training, they're also falling down. It is so difficult thing. Actually, it is the most difficult thing.
Bhagavān: Is the path down at the lake very big?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Bhagavān: Would you like to walk down by the lake or is this...?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is all right. In India, also, although they are vegetarian, they cannot give up smoking even beedie. They cannot give up chewing pan. You see? This is very difficult task. I was thinking when I first came that as soon as I propose these things, because I have got experience that Lord Zetland said, "It is impossible," what they, they'll accept? And I'll have to go back again. But I did not make any compromise. Just like other rascal yogis and swamis, they say, "Yes, yes. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever... You practice nose pressing. That's all. And give me my fees. Then you'll (indistinct)." This is not possible.
Bhagavān: When you had your talk several years ago with the professor in Russia, he made the point, when you were discussing about the regulative principles, that if you follow these principles, then your life becomes very simple, and if you don't follow these principles, life becomes very complicated. He appreciated that one point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will appreciate. Our... Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Without anartha-nivṛtti... Anartha-nivṛtti means stopping all unwanted things. Anartha. Anartha means which does not give us any profit and unnecessarily we are accustomed. Suppose we do not take any intoxicant. So what is our inconvenience? But people are spending millions and millions of dollars only for smoking. Therefore it is useless, anartha. But they cannot give it up. And condition is that without anartha-nivṛtti, there cannot be attachment for God.
- ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
- tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ
- athāsaktis tato bhāvas tataḥ premābhyudañcati
- sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ
- (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15)
These are the steps. So after anartha-nivṛtti, one is firmly fixed up in devotional service. And if the anarthas are disturbing him, then he's not fixed up. He'll fall down. He'll fall down. That risk is already there. So these people are so much accustomed to this anartha, and they cannot give it up.
Bhagavān: What is the best way to gradually get them detached?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bhagavān: The best way to gradually get them detached?
Prabhupāda: Bhajana-kriyā. Therefore bhajana-kriyā, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), association with devotees and stick to the devotional program. Just like devotional program we have got. Bhajana-kriyā. This is called bhajana-kriyā. One cannot be slack in the process of devotional service. Then it will be... Vidhi-mārga, the regulative principles: chant sixteen rounds, rise early in the morning, have maṅgala-ārātrika, read books, take your bath—these are the process. Bhajana-kriyā. Bhajana means devotional service, and kriyā... The yogis, they call kriyā-yoga.