Dr. Patel: Mr. Nehru said Kṛṣṇa was the greatest war-monger.
Prabhupāda: And he is a rascal.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) He was saying so. He thought himself to be very big man. He thought himself...
Prabhupāda: Everyone thinks. Everyone thinks. That is asuric position—"Who is like me."
Dr. Patel: (quotes some Sanskrit) That is asuric.
Prabhupāda: And bhakta... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. There is no education; therefore Kṛṣṇa has spoken of these people as mūḍha. "No, they are educated. They have passed so many examination"—māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This kind of education has no value because they are forgetting the real point of education. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: So what is āsurī, would be...
Prabhupāda: Āsurī means godlessness. "There is no God; I am God."
Dr. Patel: Believing in the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. "There is no God. I am God." What is that beginning? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsura ajana (sic) (BG 16.7), and? There is no creator? What is the exact word?
Harikeśa: Apratiṣṭham.
Prabhupāda: Apratiṣṭham. There is no cause of this creation. Kāma-haitukam: it has taken place just like a man becomes lusty by seeing a woman and he begets a child. This is the cause, this rascal desire. That's all.
Dr. Patel: Kiṁ kāma-haitukam.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is the Sāṅkhya philosophers. That is their theory. Prakṛti and puruṣa come in contact by chance, and there is creation. Not God created. Their theory is, the prakṛti and puruṣa, they come in contact by chance, and there is creation.
Dr. Patel: But sir, this Sāṅkhya philosophy also believes in Vedas. And Vedas says sa aik sata.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Sāṅkhya philosophy by the original Kapila, that is on the basis of Vedas. And this later Sāṅkhya philosophy...
Dr. Patel: Must be some another rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Now you have learned! (everyone laughs very loudly)
Dr. Patel: I am learning. (laughs raucously)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! There are two sāṅkhyas. Kapila. One Kapila is..., therefore he is described everywhere as devahūti-putra.
Dr. Patel: Kapila, the basis of the yoga.
Prabhupāda: No, yoga is Patanjali. Aṣṭāṅga. And yoga is also there in Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Patel: Sāṅkhya is the goal by knowledge, and yoga is by...
Prabhupāda: Yoga.... Actually yoga means to keep the mind fixed up, yoga indriya samyama, to control the mind and the senses. That is yoga. Then other activities. If your mind is not controlled, you are in disturbed condition, then you cannot perform it. So it is a process to control the mind. And if one is able to control the mind, then he becomes real yogi, and at that time, dhyānavasthita, meditation. Dhyānavasthita tad gatena manasa paśyanti yaṁ yogi. Then he sees the Paramātmā always. That is perfection of the.... (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya! (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: All the śāstras have been spoken out by Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā totally.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is substance. Summary of all Vedas. He says therefore, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo.
Dr. Patel: (some muttering in back) Ha. He said yogo apra... yoga can be caught and lost also. But bhakti cannot be lost.
Indian man: What is the any question of lost? How do you get disjoined with the God?
Dr. Patel: Listen, if you are artificially joined, then you are dejoined.
Indian man: No, no. Then it is not yoga at all. Then you stop, automatically (indistinct).
Dr. Patel: That is why (indistinct).
Indian man: Once then you say yoga then you are entering. You are not outside it.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) There are so many types of yoga, sir, as you know.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā summarizes, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). That is real yogi.
Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmana sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. That is the highest yoga.
Indian man: Yoga means karmendriya-dhāraṇām. Where is the question of yoga...
Dr. Patel: No, no. When the indriya-dhāraṇām is not (indistinct) it becomes (Hindi). Then it is faith, then yoga is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yoga indriya-śamanam. The result of yoga is control-mind and senses, śama, dama.
Dr. Patel: So many types of yoga, even bhakti is called a yoga. Bhakti-yoga.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yoga. Everything is yoga which links up.
Dr. Patel: (talking of a passerby) He used to join, used to join with yoga as (indistinct) with youth.
Prabhupāda: So, we shall return?
Dr. Patel: Seven o'clock. Yes.
Prabhupāda: .... yoga. Viyoga, viyoga means disconnected. Yoga and viyoga, the opposite is viyoga. So viyoga is material.
Dr. Patel: Separation.
Prabhupāda: Bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Those who are connected with this material energy, they are apparently viyoga. So we have to attain for yoga. That means turn back again back to Godhead. That is yoga.
Dr. Patel: He quoted that thing from Kathopaniṣad.
Prabhupāda: Hm, what is that?
Dr. Patel: Yogo bhavateo. Yoga can be caught and can be lost. Yoga can be caught and can be lost. So that type of yoga. Not this bhakti-yoga.
Prabhupāda: No, this is lost, when you are in materially, that is lost. And when you are spiritually joined, that is gained. Yoga and viyoga. Tasmād yogī bhavārjuna, Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna to become yogi, bhakti-yogi.
Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ yogatena āntarātmanā (BG 6.47), and then, er,...
Prabhupāda: In another place...
Dr. Patel: Yo māṁ bhajate ananya bhāk.... sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yogo māṁ bhajate ananya bhāk.
Prabhupāda: Sa sannyāsī sa yogī ca.
- anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ
- kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ
- sa sannyāsī ca yogī ca
- na niragnir na cākriyaḥ
- (BG 6.1)
(Hindi) No, akriya means no material activities, only spiritual activities. That is akriya. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya! (Hindi)