Richard: The goal of Christianity is to make a better life here on earth for the followers of Christ and after death.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is our preaching also.
Richard: That's your goal also. Okay...
Prabhupāda: Just like a student is being trained up in medical college, and when he becomes practitioner, the same thing. There is no change. There is no change.
Richard: Yes, I think you are talking about specific...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is.... Take Christian religion. So going to the church, it is practicing how to establish relationship with Christ and God. So after death, if he's perfect, he goes back to home, back to Godhead.
Richard: Um hm, right.
Prabhupāda: So this is practice. If one is interested in going back to home, back to Godhead, then this is the only way.
Richard: Okay, let me just say something, and then, you know, like, you can take it however you want. It seems to me that there all through life, men, all through history, men have been more or less striving for this same general goal-happiness here and here...
Prabhupāda: No, no, same general goal.... You must speak.... If you say same general goal, everyone says, "This is also general goal, this is also general goal." You must specifically mention what is that.
Richard: Okay, that goal is happiness here on earth, and however you define happiness, security, well-being, food on the table, however you want to, and...
Prabhupāda: But if somebody says that "I don't require to go to church for happiness. I find happiness by drinking. Let me go to the brothel and drink," that is also happiness. You cannot say. How can you say, "I don't care to go to the church. I am getting happiness here."
Richard: I'm thinking of it in a larger sense than that.
Prabhupāda: Happiness must be happiness. It doesn't mean that because larger accepts something happiness, that is happiness. No. Happiness must be real happiness.
Richard: Okay, what do you define as real happiness?
Prabhupāda: One may like it or not like it, that is not the question. Happiness is real happiness.
Richard: Right. Okay, that's what I'm talking about, spiritual happiness.
Prabhupāda: So if you simply say happiness, if you do not explain what is real happiness, then somebody will say, "I'm feeling happiness by drinking here. Why you are asking me to go to the church? You go, I don't go." That's all. Then you have to explain what is real happiness. Whether that real happiness is obtainable by going to the church or going to the brothel, liquor house?
Richard: Well, I don't think that any...
Prabhupāda: You don't think, but he thinks that "Here is happiness." You cannot induce him. He thinks. Just like few minutes ago you said that there is no obstacle, but we think there is obstacle. There is different thoughts. They don't care what is God, what is.... "I don't want to know what is God. I'm getting happiness," finished.
Richard: Okay, but continuing, you know, continuing, people are, okay.... People I think are basically the same in many respects as far as...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is wrong. That is wrong.
Richard: That is wrong. Okay, why?
Prabhupāda: You see. I have already explained. One is getting happiness by drinking, and one is getting happiness by going to the church. You cannot say that they are the same.
Richard: Well I think they're the same in intent.