Devotee (3): Like to sit there?
Prabhupāda: ...that this body is a lump of matter, and the consciousness, or the living pulse, that is different. Can you prove that they are not? Eh?
Mike Barron: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how do you say it is joking?
Mike Barron: Er, no, I.... The actual context.
Prabhupāda: The context is that if you cannot separate the living force, or the soul, from the body, then you are on the same position as the dog is thinking, "I am the body. I am a big dog. I can bark very loudly." And he's showing his capacity. And if we are talking big, big assembly, and in the same conception of life, that "I am this body," then where is difference?
Mike Barron: I cannot argue against that.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. That is the point. We have to understand this point. If we want to become more than the dog, you must find out in which sense we are more than the dog. That sense is understanding.... That is.... In Sanskrit word it is said, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this matter." That is knowledge. Actually knowledge begins from that point, that "I am not this body." Just like a big 747 plane is running on, but there is the intelligent pilot. If somebody says, "There is no pilot. It is flying automatically. The machine is supported," is it a correct?
Mike Barron: No. Does Kṛṣṇa consciousness make you aware of this, though?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one understands that this big machine is useless without the pilot. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Mike Barron: How long.... It's hard to say. How long does it take for...
Prabhupāda: It takes immediately, provided a man is intelligent. Just like the same principle: If a man is intelligent, he can immediately understand that the machine is not important; the pilot is important.
Mike Barron: The same with the body...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you take this body as everything, then analyze part by part. Just I was talking about breathing. People generally say, "The breathing is stopped; therefore the man is dead." And that can be replaced, breathing. Breathing? What is this breathing? It is simply air. Just like in tire tube, when the air is lost, you can immediately replace it and take it into work. Similarly, if breathing is lost, therefore the man is.... You can replace it. You are big, big scientist. You replace it. Just find out some machine which will "Hans! Phans!" just like bellows. That's not possible.
Mike Barron: Can you become aware of this without Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Can you without...
Prabhupāda: No, that awareness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We can describe it in different language, but the real thing is that we must be aware of this thing.
Mike Barron: So your teachings go much further than just being part of the Kṛṣṇa movement. Everyone, whether they like it or not, are indirectly concerned with it.
Prabhupāda: The.... Our movement is an educative movement to understand the real position of living condition, and then we act. Just like if you know your real position, then, if you act intelligently, then it is nice. If you do not know what is your position, what is the use of your education and acting? You do not know your real position. That is ignorance. And that is dog mentality. The dog cannot understand that he is not body; he is something else. But human intelligence is advanced. If they do not try to understand this fact, then what is the difference between him and dog?
Mike Barron: None.
Prabhupāda: That is being misused. There is no institution, no university, no education system, to understand what is that living force, without which it is a lump of matter. Where is that education?
Mike Barron: What do you call that force?
Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.
Mike Barron: Just getting off that, can I ask why you've come to Australia again?
Prabhupāda: I have already explained that, that this is my mission, to educate people to understand himself. They are under this misconception that "Every one of us, we are this body." That is misconception. You must know who is within the body. That is real education.
Mike Barron: And how long.... You'll continue this until...
Mike Barron: ...until you die.
Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there in the Vedic literature, but there was no discussion, at least in the Western countries. So I am trying to.... We have got so many books, eighty-four books, writing on this science. (aside:) Show him our books. They are being accepted by high learned circle. (break) ...written not jokingly. It is a great science.
Mike Barron: Where do you.... You might think this unusual. Where does it come from, though?
Prabhupāda: The Vedas, Vedic literature.