Prabhupāda: I said that my disciples rise at 3:30 and worship till 9:30. He said that he rises at 3:30 and three hours for... So I immediately said, "They are engaging twenty-four hours."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we don't engage in politics for the other nineteen hours. Of course, I mean, I never would have said anything, but the fact is that this is not the business of one who is eighty-four years old, to be the prime minister. It is better if he were to take up preaching Bhagavad-gītā. You gave that advice to Gandhi. He could do more good then.
Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the important shastric references in regard to developing an article on cheating?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Where is authority, that you are speaking rightly? Just like in the law court, when they plead, they give the reference to the lawbook that... A good lawyer means he will give reference "Under section... This is my authority." That is authority. (break) (Hindi) Ap thik hai?
Girirāja: So this is Mr. Ram Jethmalani. He is the Member of Parliament representing this constituency. So he recently came from Detroit. He was teaching at the university there while this emergency was going on, and now he came back. So he mentioned his idea of helping the slum dwellers. So I have showed him that article, "One Hundred Million Harijanas Looking for a New Messiaḥ" and gave him a copy of the letter which Goswami Mahārāja wrote. In the meantime he was just busy with other functions. He didn't get a chance to go through it. He is very interested.
Prabhupāda: So we can uplift the position of the harijanas very easily, by this process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is a song, Bengali song, vrajendra-nandana yei. You understand Bengali?
Ram Jethmalani: No.
Prabhupāda: Vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, meaning that "Who was formerly Vrajendra-nandana, Kṛṣṇa, Nanda Mahārāja's son, the same person has now come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu." Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mother's name was Śacīdevī. Therefore He is introduced, "The same person who was formerly the son of Nanda Mahārāja has come again as the son of Śacīdevī." Balarāma haila nitāi. "And Balarāma has come as Nitāi." These two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, They have now started this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So what is the purpose of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? So pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. In the Kali-yuga, ninety-nine percent, they are sinful and suffering. Pāpī-tāpī. Pāpī means sinful, and tāpī means suffering. All of them, pāpī-tāpī yata chila, they are all delivered simply by this process of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. Then where is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You are a lawyer, you want witness, evidence.
Ram Jethmalani: (laughing) You don't blame me.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana?