Woman: In which country of Europe has the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement been the most powerful or successful?
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Woman: Every one?
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, yes. In Africa, in America, in Canada, in Japan, in China. Most successful in America. Most successful-many men have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Woman: What about Greece?
Prabhupāda: I never went to Greece.
Satsvarūpa: You said you went to the airport and they were chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
O'Grady: Really?
Woman: I would think they would be in danger in Athens.
Bhagavān: It is danger.
Woman: There's no way that this movement could be very successful in Athens or in Greece. Not too many things are successful in Greece.
Prabhupāda: Yes, when I was going to Nairobi from London I got down, transit, on the hall. Some young men, as soon as they saw me, they began to chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
O'Grady: No, really? In Greece, this was, in Athens?
Prabhupāda: Athens, yes.
O'Grady: Incredible. What about in Rome? What kind of... Do you think they're going... Well, they're asking about problems with the police and getting (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That problem is everywhere.
O'Grady: Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Police sometimes harass us, and they become later on tired and do not do anything. (chuckles) Arresting, arresting, they become tired.
O'Grady: They become tired.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
O'Grady: The system gives up. That's a marvelous solution. Because I feel very tired with the system myself. So there's something wrong with the system as being. So maybe you can give me some advice how to beat the system. Because I assure you, here in Rome...
Prabhupāda: But you Irish people, you are never tired to fight. (laughter)
O'Grady: No. We've been fighting for three thousand years now.
Prabhupāda: I think the fighting is going on still.
O'Grady: Very much so. Very badly, very bad now, very bad. What do you do about that? And that's a serious question. Is it morally correct to be sitting here, for me to be sitting here...
Prabhupāda: You see, so long people will remain under the bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am Irish," "I am English," "I am American," "I am Italian," so long this misconception will go on, fight will go on. You see? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... There is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like you cannot stop fighting between the dogs and cats. Why there is fighting? Because the dog is thinking, "I am dog." The cat is thinking, "I am cat." Similarly, if I think as Irishman, "I am Englishman," it is the same thing. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," so if I think, "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," I am no better than the dog. So as we cannot stop the fighting between dogs, similarly, so long people will remain in bodily concept of life, the fighting cannot be stopped.
O'Grady: What was Mahatma Gandhi fighting in the House of Commons in England?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also another dogism. Because there is no difference. Just try to understand. The dog is thinking, "I am dog." Why? Because he has got the body of a dog. Similarly, if I am thinking, "I am Indian" because I have got the body in the Indian soil, where is the difference? There is no difference.
O'Grady: The Englishman thinks there's a difference.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone. The bodily concept of life is animalism. When we think that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," then there is peace. Otherwise there cannot be any peace. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). In the Vedic literature it is described that persons who is in the bodily concept of life, he is exactly like the cow and the ass. That means animal. So people has to transcend this qualitative conception of existence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You will find this verse. Find out this verse,
- māṁ ca 'vyabhicāriṇi-
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
Nitāi: Yes, 14.26.
- māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
"One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Nitāi: This verse is a reply to Arjuna's third question: What is the means of attaining to the transcendental position? As explained before, the material world is acting under the spell of the modes of material nature. One should not be disturbed by the activities of the modes of nature; instead of putting his consciousness into such activities, he may transfer his consciousness to Kṛṣṇa activities. Kṛṣṇa activities are known as bhakti-yoga—always acting for Kṛṣṇa. This includes not only Kṛṣṇa, but His different plenary expansions such as Rāma and Nārāyaṇa. He has innumerable expansions. One who is engaged in the service of any of the forms of Kṛṣṇa, or of His plenary expansions, is considered to be transcendentally situated. One should also note that all the forms of Kṛṣṇa are fully transcendental, blissful, full of knowledge and eternal. Such personalities of Godhead are omnipotent and omniscient, and they possess all transcendental qualities. So, if one engages himself in the service of Kṛṣṇa or His plenary expansions with unfailing determination, although these modes of material nature are very difficult to overcome, he can overcome them easily. This is already explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto Kṛṣṇa at once surmounts the influence of the modes of material nature. To be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or in devotional service means to acquire the equality of Kṛṣṇa. The Lord says that His nature is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, and the living entities are part and parcel of the Supreme, as gold particles are part of a gold mine. Thus the living entity's spiritual position is as good as gold, as good as Kṛṣṇa in quality. The difference of individuality continues, otherwise there is no question of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga means that the Lord is there, the devotee is there and the activity of exchange of love between the Lord and the devotee is there. Therefore the individuality of two persons is present in the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual person, otherwise there is no meaning to bhakti-yoga. If one is not situated in the same transcendental position with the Lord, one cannot serve the Supreme Lord. To be a personal assistant to a king, one must acquire the qualifications. Thus the qualification is to become Brahman, or freed from all material contamination. It is said in the Vedic literature: brahmaiva san brahmāpyeti. One can attain the Supreme Brahman by becoming Brahman. This means that one must qualitatively become one with Brahman. By attainment of Brahman, one does not lose his eternal Brahman identity as individual soul.
Prabhupāda:
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Find out this verse.
O'Grady: The best truth, and I think it's truth for most of us who take ourselves seriously...
Prabhupāda: Just like in our society, we have got Americans, we have got Africans, Canadians, Indians, Christians, Jews, Mohammedans. But they are no longer Mohammedan, American, Christian or African. They are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. And that is Brahmān realization.
O'Grady: But that's giving it a name also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?
Nitāi:
- brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
"One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me. Purport."
Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?