Hayagrīva: This is the fourth act, first scene.
Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth act, first scene.
Hayagrīva: Meets Rāmānanda Rāya.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Shall I speak?
Hayagrīva: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: So after converting Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu started for His South Indian tour. In South Indian tour, before meeting Rāmānanda Rāya, He visited a very nice temple which is called Vijaya Nṛsiṁha. Shall I...? Shall you give that scene? That is very nice temple. Huh?
Hayagrīva: Yes. Go ahead.
Prabhupāda: Then the first scene will be the visit of Vijaya Nṛsiṁha Garh temple.
Hayagrīva: Vijaya...
Prabhupāda: Vijaya Nṛsiṁha Garh.
Hayagrīva: I'll get the spellings of these from you later.
Prabhupāda: I'm spelling. V-i-j-a-y N-r-i-s-i-n-g-a G-a-r-h. Vijaya Nṛsiṁha Garh temple. This is near modern Visakhapatnam shipyard. There is a very great Indian shipyard, Visakhapatnam. Formerly it was not Visakhapatnam. So near that, five miles away from that station there is that nice temple on the hill. So I think that the temple scenery may be there and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's visiting that temple. And after that temple He came to the bank of river Godavari. Just like the river Ganges is very sacred river, similarly there are others, four other rivers. Yamuna, Godavari, Kṛṣṇa, Narmada, Ganga, Yamuna, Godavari, Narmada, and Kṛṣṇa. These five rivers are considered very sacred. So He came to the bank of Godavari and He took His bath and was sitting in a nice place underneath a tree and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. In the meantime He saw that a great procession was coming, and that should be the scenario of this... In that procession... Formerly the kings and governors, they used to take bath in the Ganges with their paraphernalia, band party and many brāhmaṇas and all kinds of charitable things. In this way they used to come to take bath. So Lord Caitanya saw that somebody is coming in that great procession, and He was told about Rāmānanda Rāya, the governor of Madras province. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya requested Him that "You are going to South India. You must meet Rāmānanda Rāya. He's a great devotee." So when He was sitting on the bank of the Kaveri and Rāmānanda Rāya was coming in procession, He understood that he is Rāmānanda Rāya. But because He was sannyāsī, He did not address him. But Rāmānanda Rāya, he was a great devotee, and saw a nice sannyāsī, young sannyāsī was sitting and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Generally, the sannyāsīs they do not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. They, "Oṁ, oṁ..." Simply sound oṁ. Not Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hayagrīva: What do you mean He wouldn't address him because He was a sannyāsī?
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsīn, the restriction is the sannyāsī should not beg from pound-shilling man or see them. That is a restriction. Women and men of pounds-shillings-pence.
Hayagrīva: But I thought Rāmānanda Rāya was a devotee.
Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.
Hayagrīva: Rāmānanda Rāya.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Well, is that important? That's the scene about the meeting.
Prabhupāda: Meeting, meeting, that discussion would you like to give?
Hayagrīva: Well, if it has to be rendered in the scene it's important. You want me to render the discussion?
Prabhupāda: Important is the scene that He met Rāmānanda Rāya, he came in procession, that was a nice scenery. These things are already complete. Now so far the talks are concerned, the summary of the talk was...
Hayagrīva: Just give me the brief summary.
Prabhupāda: Brief summary... In this scene Caitanya Mahāprabhu became the student. Not exactly student. He inquired and Rāmānanda Rāya answered. So the importance of the scene is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not follow the formality, only the sannyāsīs should be the spiritual master. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can be spiritual master. And to show this example practically, although He was sannyāsī and brāhmaṇa and Rāmānanda Rāya was a śūdra and a gṛhastha, householder, still He became like a student and inquired Rāmānanda Rāya. Rāmānanda Rāya felt some, I mean to say, hesitation that "How can I take the position of a teacher to a sannyāsī?" Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied, "No, no. Don't hesitate." He stated that either one may be a sannyāsī or he may be householder or one may be a brāhmaṇa or śūdra, it doesn't matter. Anyone who knows the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can take the place of teacher. So that was His, I mean to say, gift. Because in Indian society it is simply taken that the brāhmaṇas and the sannyāsī can be spiritual master. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Anyone can become spiritual master provided he's conversant with the science." And the summary of the discussion was how to elevate oneself in the highest perfection of love of Godhead. And that love of Godhead was described, existed, I mean to say, superexcellently in Rādhārāṇī. So in the bhāva, in the feature of Rādhārāṇī. And Rāmānanda Rāya, in the feature of Rādhārāṇī's associates Lalitā-sakhī, both of them embraced and began to dance in ecstasy. That will be the end of the scene. Both of them began to dance in ecstasy.
Hayagrīva: Rāmānanda Rāya...
Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Hayagrīva: All right. Now the second scene. Is that the end of the first?
Prabhupāda: Second scene, fourth act, Caitanya Mahāprabhu after finishing His South Indian tour, He came back to Jagannātha Purī, His headquarter, and after some days He started for Vṛndāvana. While He was in Vṛndāvana He was embracing the tree as old friend, and the birds were sitting on His hand, as if receiving an old friend. Because He was Kṛṣṇa. So after many years they have seen. And that scene, if you can describe how He's traveling in the Vṛndāvana forest. Then He took bath in the several vānas and ghāṭas. Ghāṭas means bathing place of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. And everywhere He felt the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī, separation. In this way He returned from Vṛndāvana, and when He came down to Prayag, modern Allahabad, at that time He met Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Hayagrīva: Now you say the trees were old friends because He could remember that He was Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa used to play in these forests. He used to play in the forest. Yes. Now He met Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: At Prayag.
Hayagrīva: At Prayag. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Allahabad. And...
Hayagrīva: What is His age? I just want to keep checking on this, His age now. Is He twenty, in His twenties still?
Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa at twenty-four. Say twenty-five, twenty-six years.
Hayagrīva: Couple years later. All right. Because time is an important factor. You have to keep track of the time in the play.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He toured, after His sannyāsa, He toured all over India for six years only. That means up to 30th year He toured all over India. And from 30th year to 48th year, 18 years, He constantly remained at Jagannātha Purī. He used to chant in the temple and meet His visitors. Especially during car festival ceremony of Jagannātha, from Bengal about 400, 500 devotees would go and meet Him, and they would remain there for four months continually. July, August, September, October. Four months. And then they would come back. In this way, for 18 years He passed in Jagannātha Purī. So Rūpa Gosvāmī, He met Rūpa Gosvāmī and He taught him about the science of devotion for ten days. That devotional service He instructed that the living entities they're roaming in the 8,400,000 species of life. Fortunately, if by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa and if he gets one good spiritual master, then he learns about devotional service. So He taught him about the science of devotional service. That is the importance of meeting Rūpa Gosvāmī. So here the scenery must be mentioned. It is on the bank of Ganges. There is a nice ghāṭa, just like... You have been to Benares? No. You have been to Hardwar?
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have seen many ghāṭas, bathing places.
Hayagrīva: Oh yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, there are ghāṭas in Benares, Prayag, and all, I mean to say, Vṛndāvana. That is the specific significance of Indian places of pilgrimage.
Hayagrīva: Yes. They bathe there every day I noticed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, there is a ghāṭa which is called Daśāśvamedha Ghāṭa at Prayag. He instructed about the science of devotional service to Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Hayagrīva: Now how old is Rūpa Goswami? Is he an old man?
Prabhupāda: Oh, he was old enough. He was not less than fifty years at that time.
Hayagrīva: I see. All right. Anything else in the second scene, fourth act?
Prabhupāda: That is it... And then He came back to Benares.
Hayagrīva: Who?
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Hayagrīva: I thought He stayed in Jagannātha... He's not now... He left...
Prabhupāda: No, from Jagannātha Purī He went to Vṛndāvana. From Vṛndāvana while coming down again He first of all came to Prayag. There He taught Rūpa Gosvāmī. Then when He still came down He came to Benares. At Benares He remained for two months. More than two months. And for two months continually He instructed Sanātana Gosvāmī about devotional service. That instruction you'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. I've written that Teachings of Lord Caitanya?
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In that you'll find.
Hayagrīva: Now this third scene, meets Sanātana Gosvāmī, that's in Benares. And Sanātana is how old?
Prabhupāda: Sanātana was older than Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was the eldest. He was not less than about 65 or 70 years old. He was old man. Sufficiently old man.
Hayagrīva: Yes. And of the instructions to Sanātana Gosvāmī are in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. All right. Now...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, the fourth scene, the teachings with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, that is also in there.
Hayagrīva: Who is this?
Prabhupāda: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī was at Benares. He was a Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Śaṅkara sampradāya. So he used to... This scene should be given that at Benares He was also walking all over the streets and roads, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa" and thousands and thousands men were following Him. This news arrived to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī who was the chief sannyāsī there and some of the devotees told, "Oh, a very nice sannyāsī has come to Benares. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī deprecated, "Oh! This is a nonsense! Why a sannyāsī should chant and dance? He should concentrate his mind in studying Vedānta. He is a fool." In this way Caitanya Mahāprabhu was criticized. So one Maharastrian brāhmaṇa, he was devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He said that "This incident gave us much pain, sir. If You kindly meet this sannyāsī and talk with him about Vedānta-sūtra, that would be a nice thing." In the meantime one brāhmaṇa came and invited Lord Caitanya that "I have invited all the sannyāsīns of Benares, but I know You do not meet these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, but still I have come to invite You. You kindly accept my invitation." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw this opportunity of meeting Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He accepted his invitation, and there was a meeting, and there was discussion of Vedānta-sūtra with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, and He converted him to be a Vaisnava. That is another incident.
Hayagrīva: How old is this man?
Prabhupāda: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī? He was also old man. Not less than sixty years old. Yes.
Hayagrīva: And what was his role again in the town? What was he... He was a Vedantist?
Prabhupāda: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He was a Māyāvādī sannyāsī. He accepted Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle and he offered his respect. He touched His feet. And he also joined. But there is no mention that he became officially a Vaisnava, but he accepted the philosophy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya officially, he became a Vaisnava. Then Lord Haridāsa meets...