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Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Devotee (1): One of my friends said, "(inaudible), you want to tell us everything, so why don't you build a machine to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa for you?"

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Machine was not made for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, but we are utilizing it so that the machine-maker may be benefited. Because we employ everyone's energy to Kṛṣṇa. So by his energy he has manufactured this machine, so we are employing in Kṛṣṇa's service so that he may be benefited, purified. We are showing him the mercy. Just like one flower picked up from a plant offered to Kṛṣṇa is offering benefit to that plant. Because his energy is in the service of Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the person who has manufactured this machine, when it is employed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, he's benefited. Indirectly, we are giving him opportunity, although he does not know it. But his energy is being utilized for Kṛṣṇa. We offer prasādam, the same principle. A man does not know about Kṛṣṇa. But he wants to eat. By eating, he'll be gradually Kṛṣṇa conscious. So you have... Our business is to give opportunity to all forgotten souls to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, today or tomorrow. The boys and girls who have come to this society, they have accumulated in that way, knowingly or unknowingly, some Kṛṣṇa conscious qualification, and therefore they have taken this opportunity. (Pause) We have no dog friend. (Laughs)

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:
Prabhupāda: Caṇākya Paṇḍita is giving too much stress on mother and wife in family life. So he says if one's mother is dead and if his wife is not very..., apriya-vādinī, and does not behave very well, ill-behaving, so Caṇākya Paṇḍita advises him that aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: such person should immediately go to the forest. Because in the Vedic understanding there is no divorce. If the wife is not very pleasing, there is no question of divorcing. Caṇākya Paṇḍita does not advise it, the advise that he should divorce such wife, but he says, aranyaṁ tena gantavyam: he should give up family life and go to the forest. Divorce was completely unknown, even up to, say, five years ago. Now this Nehru government has enacted Divorce Act in Hindu law, but actually, Hindu law-maker, they have no such thing as divorce.
Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: It is the easiest method conceivable because the method is so easy that we simply ask people to come and chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. And it is actually experienced that in this country, all my disciples, they are neither Indian, nor Hindu, nor they know the Sanskrit words, everything is unknown to them, but still, they are taking so seriously. That is the proof how it is easier, that it can be spread all over the world.

Interviewer: I mean, just is Kṛṣṇa consciousness more readily accepted by the Far Eastern peoples? That is does their way of life make the acceptance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness any more easy than here in America? For instance, Americans are constantly rushing around and Europeans somewhat less. But they find it more difficult to be tranquil and peaceful than the Eastern peoples. For this reason, might it not be harder for Western peoples to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Is there much divorce in India?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The modern, so-called advanced boys and girls, they are now after divorce. But before that, even there was misunderstanding between husband and wife, quarrel, there was no question of divorce. Take my life practical. I was a householder. Now I have given up. So practically I did not agree with my wife, but there was no dream of divorcing. You see? Neither she dreamt, neither I dreamt. This was unknown. Now they are being introduced.

Journalist: Yeah. Western culture.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Journalist: Do you have much of a following in India itself?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not my personal, but my other Godbrothers, this cult is very good.

Journalist: How many, how many...

Prabhupāda: Oh, millions. We have got, this Vaiṣṇava philosophy, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, million and millions. Almost all. 80 percent. You ask any Indian and he'll talk so many things about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He may not be my disciple, but there are many saintly person like me. They are doing this business.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Devotee: Law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the idea came to the human society unless it is there in the Absolute? How the idea comes? Therefore that law and order is Viṣṇu. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea of law and order came from Viṣṇu. How nicely explained. Janmādy asya. In two words, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Janma means creation, and ādi, ādi means first janma, then sthiti. Sthiti means staying, maintenance. And then dissolution. So three things. Yataḥ, from where these three things are happening. That means this world is being created from that source, it is being maintained by that source, and when it is annihilated it rests in that energy, the whole energy. Pralayaṁ yānti māmikam, Bhagavad-gītā. When everything is dissolved, the energy is absorbed by the energetic. So that is Absolute Truth. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains that Absolute Truth. Janmādy asya yata anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). In the Vedānta-sūtra it is simply said that "The Absolute Truth is that which is the fountainhead of everything." Now if fountainhead of everything, then what the Absolute Truth's nature shall be like? That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The first thing is that janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The factor, the Absolute Truth from which everything is emanating, so that emanation includes indirect and direct manifestation. What is that indirect and direct manifestation? The direct manifestation is the spiritual world and the indirect manifestation is this material world. Indirect manifestation means it is simply a shadow of the spiritual world. Just like in the Bible also it is said the man is made after God. So you have got two hands, one head, two leg. So the mental speculation is said that these devotees, they create God according to their own feature. Because I am two-handed, and therefore I create God with two hands, Kṛṣṇa. But actually, the fact is not that. Actually, because Kṛṣṇa has got two hands and we have got an imitation body of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have got two hands. Because this is imitation. That we know everything, everyone. This body will not stay. Therefore it has got janma. Janma means birth or creation at a certain period, and it stays, say, for fifty years or hundred years. Then dissolved, dissolution. Therefore it is imitation. Just like if you create a doll, clay doll, very nice beautiful girl. But it will... It is imitation. It is shadow of the real beautiful girl. It is created at some time and... So reality is there in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea comes from there, but the impersonalists, due to their intelligence being very meager, they think that the Absolute Truth is without any variety, impersonal or void. They think that varieties are only in the material world, but actually, real varieties are there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva mūlam adhah-śākha. Adhah-śākham. Aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam. Aśvattha... This material creation, material manifestation is compared with a banyan tree whose root is upward. And that I have explained several times how the tree can be upwards root. That means it is reflection. Just like you stand on the riverside, the tree will be reflected on the river, on the water, as obverted. That means that is reflection. As soon as we say that this is a tree, the root of which is up, that means it is reflection. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they do not take account of the mathematical calculation, 380 degree. They are taking account of... 360 degree, the whole circle. They are taking account only 180 degree. And other 180 degree they're making void. But actually, the whole point is 360 degree. That is geomatrical calculation. If you simply know 180 degree, then the other 180 degree is unknown to you. So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant, abhijñaḥ. Cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not ordinary thing.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand. Yes?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore the Vedas says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ: "In order to know that transcendental science," sa gurum evābhigacchet, "he must go to a guru. He must approach." A guru means not bogus guru. One who knows expert. But one has to do that. There is no other alternative. That is the injunction of every Vedic śāstra. And this order is from the Kathopaniṣad. Then, on the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is said, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipāta means surrender. Surrender where? Where to surrender? To a coolie? No, to a superior person, guru. Similarly, Bhāgavata says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam: (SB 11.3.21) "One who is inquisitive to understand the spiritual science," tasmād, "therefore," guruṁ prapadyeta, "must surrender to a guru." Just our, this morning prayer is guru, beginning of life, beginning of day's work, first worshiping guru.

Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-

trāṇāya-kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam,

prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam **

So in our, this Vedic way of life, to accept guru is essential. Even big, big ācārya... Even Kṛṣṇa, He accepted guru, Sandipani Muni. Lord Caitanya accepted guru, Īśvara Purī. They are perfect, but still, the ways They are showing because They are ācārya. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, taking the part of the ācārya, so he is also accepting, although the fact is as soon as went to, within a few days He learned everything. That is stated in our Kṛṣṇa Book. Within a few days He became expert warrior, expert magician, expert yogi, every..., so many things, all arts. But He learned from a guru. He is perfect Himself, Kṛṣṇa. He is called Yogesvara. He knows all the yoga process, but still, in order to teach us, because He is playing the part of a teacher, He shows us that you must learn from guru. "I am learning from guru." So any science, you cannot learn it automatically by yourself. No, that is not. Then we shall create so many mental speculators, so many things. That will be not a science. Even all scientists, they accept a formula from an authority: "law of gravitation." They accept it. Then their physical, so many things they discover. But accept one formula. Just like this formula is given by Sir Isaac Newton. So they accept guru. So from all practical point of view, the things which are unknown to us, we have to accept a guru, for things unknown to us. Now, there is another verse. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ. We are all born ignorant. Is it not? What do you think? Are we not born fools? Is it not?

Guest (2): Jñānena...

Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean to say, take our present position. You were born, I am born, he is born, everyone. Are we not born foolish? What do you think?

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India... If you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do. Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things. I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing(?) or illicit sex life, because we are trained in that way. So due to foreign domination, they were killed; and after independence, these rascal leaders, they are killing it: "What is the wrong in meat-eating? What is the wrong in drinking?" They are canvassing: "Eat chickens, eat eggs,." This is going on.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: I don't know if it is rather than fear.

Dr. Weir: Well I mean... If you don't know. If I were afraid of you because of absolute knowledge or...

Mensa Member: Yaḥ.

Dr. Weir: ...terrified of the unknown.

Mensa Member: That's very true. That's why (indistinct) children (indistinct) and such like and things like the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement who not only (indistinct) philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Just like the child is afraid of the father. There is affection. My father is displeased that I do... Father has says, "Don't touch this." So I don't touch. My father has... So that fear and affection, both is there. It is not simply that he is afraid of his father but the affection is there. So to become obedient to the authority, there is a tinge of fear also but that is based on affection. That is not actually...

Śyāmasundara: They were saying also that in this age, particularly now, there is a great fear of loving someone or something on the part of the large population. They think that by...

Prabhupāda: There is no real love. There is expectation of being frustrated in love.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: The conclusion comes in this way, that to remain animals, scientific animals, that's all. The propensities are the same, sense gratification, but the man is trying to make it scientific. That means to remain animal but become scientific, that's all, scientific animal.

Dr. Weir: But at the same time he's a spiritual animal. It's interesting to find that in this twentieth century, science is rather replacing the spirituality. You know people in the past gave religion an enormous importance and science was practically unknown. Now they're going the other way around.

Prabhupāda: That scientific spirituality, that is advancement more than the animals. Otherwise if you simply remain on the (indistinct) eating, sleeping, mating and defending scientifically, you remain animal. But when that scientific research goes to the spiritual thing that is special prerogative of the human.

Śyāmasundara: This replacement by science of religion has proven inadequate also in the twentieth century because how can it satisfy ultimately the questions?

Dr. Weir: In the same way, how can you satisfy a person's lack of emotional content in his job by giving him more money? Half of the trouble starts with the jobs, is they have no emotive content now because there's no rapport between them and their boss. They have practically no intellectual interest because they've a routine job in a factory. And you know they are really deprived in a sad way.

Mensa Member: Then what worries lots of people about lots of religions is the (indistinct) for example of pointing a finger at the (indistinct) choosing the finger with the (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: One of the difficulties, and I think this is true when I was saying simple people, using that in a broader sense, some people cannot get anything at all unless they have a little picture. You know, it helps them; not like the dear old lady who found...

Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: What is that again?

Prabhupāda: This attachment increases. The material attachment. The material attachment means "I am this body, and because I have got this body in a particular place, that is my country." And that is going on. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," this bodily... "This is my country. I shall sacrifice everything for my country, society." So in this way the illusion becomes increased. So under this illusion, when he dies he gets another body. That may be a superior body or inferior body according to his karma. So if he gets superior body, then that is also entanglement. Even if he goes to the heavenly planet, that is entanglement. And if he becomes cats and dogs, then his life's lost. A tree. There is every chance. So this science is not known in the world, that how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another and how he's being entrapped in different types of body. This science is unknown. Therefore when Arjuna was speaking from the bodily concept of life that "If I kill my brother, if I kill my grandfather, the other side..." So he was simply thinking on the basis of bodily concept of life. But when it was not solved he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, accepted Him as spiritual master. And when Kṛṣṇa became his spiritual master He chastised him in the beginning. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11), that "You are talking like learned man, but you are a fool number one because you are talking on the bodily concept of life." So this sex life increases the bodily concept of life. Therefore the whole process is to reduce it to nil.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Another thing happened in Los Angeles. I wanted some quotation from a place of this Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So the man came, he said, "Swamiji, first of all I must buy this book. Either you accept or not accept our quotation, what price I shall pay?" I said, "Give me six dollars." Immediately he took this book. "Such a nice book I have never read. So either it is printed or not printed in our press, I must take this book." Actually, these ideas what we have explained in our books, they're unknown to the modern world. Unknown.

Śyāmasundara: They're not described anywhere else. No other source.

Prabhupāda: Nobody knows that God can be person, there can be dealings like this, there are dealings actually, and they are described. That is wonderful.

Śyāmasundara: They don't know that life can be so joyful and endlessly...

Prabhupāda: That I wrote in my poetry. "The Absolute is sentient thou hast proved." That was striking to me. Not impersonal, "sentient thou hast proved, impersonal calamity thou hast moved." "Absolute is sentient thou hast proved." That was my acceptance. So even the many judges came in Allahabad, do you remember?

Śyāmasundara: Yes. In Madras?

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Your real dimension is mentioned there that you are a spiritual atom. The measurement is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That is the seed, or basic principle. Now, on that small particle of spirit soul we have developed this body. We have got human bodies, other has got the elephant body, other has got the mountainous body, but this is external. The real seed is that one ten-thousandth part of the hair. Similarly, as you have developed this material body under different consciousness, similarly when we give up the material connection we shall develop our spiritual body, and in that spiritual body we shall be able to enter the kingdom of God, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position. This body you have to give up, today or tomorrow or one hundred years after. You have to give it up. The Bhagavad-gītā says after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), he comes to Me. So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Kṛṣṇa means Viṣṇu-tattva. So Viṣṇu-tattva has many forms. So any Viṣṇu form will do.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.39)

Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. He has got different forms, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many other forms, Govinda, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even. Kṛṣṇa was at that time a boy. But they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. Kṛṣṇa was their everything. And therefore their position is the topmost. So somehow or other, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. Otherwise not. So we do it knowingly or unknowingly; the effect is the same. Fire you touch knowingly or unknowingly; it will act. It is not that if a child touches fire without knowing, knowledge, it is not that fire will not burn. And similarly... That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. Some way or other, come to Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa-kāmāt. Kṛṣṇa was very beautiful, so they wanted to associate with Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But they will do it because they have got motorcars, they must find out petrol.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why they are called development of new departments of knowledge. With the rise of necessity, they develop new departments of searching out the unknown.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of this development? It will be problem after all. What is the use of such knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They fail to see that point.

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They do not have clear eyesight, clear insight. They do not know whether they are degrading or developing. Just like the flies, with great force they will go into the fire. They think they are making progress, they are going to the light. They think; otherwise how they are going? Such kind of advancement. They are going to die, be annihilated, and they still, "Oh, we are going force, by force we are going to the light. Here is darkness, there is light." This is their philosophy. Just like a mad driver drinking drives recklessly to die, that's all. But he is thinking, "Oh, I am going with so much great speed." He does not know that he is going to die after few minutes. And that is their development.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: It is a fact. Just like this child is transmigrating from one body, one kind of body to another body. So in the same way, when I give up this body I transmigrate to another body. This is the science. Unfortunately, there is no university, no education, no culture of this great science. Therefore according to Bhāgavatam, the knowledge is imperfect. The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge. Although the Vedic literature gives us ample information of this—in the the Bhagavad-gītā, that is the preliminary study of all Vedic literature—but there is no chance for the people to understand. This is the defect of the modern civilization. Therefore it is necessary. And actually, because there is no sufficient knowledge of the position, I see the American boys and girls, although they are coming out very rich and respectable family, they are turning to hippies. In spite of your arrangement for very big, big university, they are becoming frustrated. They are no longer satisfied to live materially opulent like their fathers and grandfathers. In other countries also, the same symptoms are there. Just like in India, the Naxalites. So that is another form of confusion. In your country the confusion state is a different kind. Another type is another confusion. In China also there is another type of confusion. In Russia also there is another type of confusion. So the present position of the human society is very dangerous because everyone is feeling dissatisfaction for confusion.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think it's easier here.

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation for the author who, of the Vedic literatures. They say: "unknown forest sages."

Prabhupāda: Unknown, it may be unknown, but the things are there. Where from they got the brain? That is our question. It may be unknown to you, or unknown to me, but the brain work is there. The philosophy is there, and the... At least, the language, the poetic arrangement, the linguistic strength, everything is there. So you may not know the person, but you can understand the brain. Just like...

Brahmānanda: They think our brain is increasing, but actually we see it decreasing. Because we cannot duplicate that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only duplicate. You cannot even understand properly. Do you... To understand the Vedic philosophy, you have to tax your brain. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted as a great book of philosophy all over the world. And... Now wherefrom this brain came out. Apart from accepting Kṛṣṇa as God, take it, the language, take the language, the philosophy, the thoughts. How great they are. Now how can you say that people had no higher brain. Within hundred years everything has grown up. All these rascals. What is the Darwin's age?

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I agree with what you say. I am just adding another explanation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you cannot understand your father by any other process. This is the only process. That means things which are unknown, beyond our conception, you have to know it through the authority. Just like you know your father through the authority of your mother.

Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I agree. But...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that things which are beyond our imagination cannot be known. You cannot say that. Can be known, provided you have got the real process.

Mr. Wadell: I'm afraid I must make, so far as I am concerned, a clear division between what I know and what I believe. There are certain things... It is maybe, partly a use of words, but whereas I know that I am here and that I have people in..., I am in the same room with other men...

Prabhupāda: Do you think that this process, as I have suggested, to know one's father through the authority of the mother is not perfect?

Mr. Wadell: Oh, well, I think it's as near perfect as you can get.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: Well, you see, what you are... In that case, I should have to pretend, you see. I would have to pretend to know something which I did not know at all. Then I should be a cheater, wouldn't I. And that would be wrong. And there must be many things which I do not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is better to become honest. If I do not know anything perfectly I should not be teacher. That is right thing. And if I have got doubtful knowledge, perhaps, maybe, why shall I be teacher. I should, "No, no I cannot teach. The subject is unknown." That is our process.

Mr. Wadell: Yes. I must say that I, there are many things of which I haven't got knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. That is going on. Therefore people are misled.

Mr. Wadell: No. I would mislead them more if I said that I knew.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. If you do not know, why should you say you knew? That is another cheating.

Mr. Wadell: How do you mean?

Prabhupāda: If... When you know...

Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I don't pretend. If I know something, I say I know, but...

Prabhupāda: Then you say that..., you say, "I know."

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Physical is my outward dress. Just like your coat, if it becomes old enough, there is no more possibility to use it. You have to throw it away. You have to take another coat. Similarly, physically, I am spirit soul. When my physical body is old enough, useless, then I will have to give it up. I will have to accept another new body. But the question is that I am eternal; why I am forced to accept a body which will be useless after some time? That is the problem. I am eternal, as spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the annihilation of this body. But why I am forced to accept another body, which will be annihilated? This technology is unknown all over the world. And still they are proud of becoming very advanced in science. (Aside:) Open this. Let them come. Keep it open. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Come forward. (break) ...technology, although it is a problem. But we can supply this technology, to solve this problem. Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya mām... Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya. (break) ...modern technologist, scientists, they do not know what is the perfection of life. Now, they are thinking that having a big building, possessing big building, and possessing a few cars and nice bank balance, that is perfection of life. But suppose you get a very nice home, very nice big bank balance, and other amenities. But there is every possibility that as soon as you prepare all these things, you have to go away immediately, death. There is no guarantee that "After finishing this job, I shall be able to enjoy these things." At any moment you can be asked, "Get out." So this labor, so much labor for creating nice residential quarters, bank balance, and others, that is my futile labor because I could not enjoy it. Therefore this is not perfection of life. If there is no guarantee of enjoying what you are creating, then where is the perfection? You create things for enjoyment, but you enjoy it. But there is no guarantee of enjoyment. At any moment you'll be asked, "Get out." Is that perfection? You create things. That's all right. But you enjoy it. But there is no guarantee. Just like I saw in Paris that arch. Napoleon wanted to make an arch. You know... No, you have not been in Paris?

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But then... What is that end. That you do not know.

Guest (1): It will be always unfolding.

Prabhupāda: That means it is always unknown.

Guest (1): Yes, the Lord is... Nobody can limit Lord.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is, that is unknown to you. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, it is not unknown. There is a standard. There is a perfection stage.

Guest (1): As long as I have got body, I can never know God fully.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right, so long you have got the body.

Guest (1): All of our śāstras says...

Prabhupāda: But, you hear me. You have come to take some light. You kindly hear.

Guest (1): Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Again "trying," the same disease, "trying." (laughter) Same disease. Again "trying." That is called... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). They are simply struggle, struggling with the mind. That is their business. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Because he is in this prakṛti, under the control of the material nature, prakṛti-sthāni—simply a struggle. And mental concoction: "Now we shall do it. Now we are trying. In future it will be done." Manaḥ. This is mind, mental concoction. Prakṛti is doing their own duty, by nature's law. Now, by nature's law, the winter season is coming. Stop it. Stop it. Make it summer season. What you can do? Why so many cloths are required? Turn it into summer. You cannot do anything. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi... (BG 3.27). The prakṛti is going on, doing its own duty. You cannot check. Now the sun is rising. Now make it dark. Or in the darkness, ask the sun, "Get up." Where is your power? And still you are thinking, that "We are scientists. We are advancing." All foolishness. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). What you can do? You cannot even know how many stars and planets are there. Still unknown.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, they say in our universe there are about ten to the eleventh stars. They can count approximately. They say there are about 100 billion stars.

Prabhupāda: Count the sand grains, count the sand grains.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Sañjaya was speaking in the room to Dhṛtarāṣṭra and he said that "Now He showed." That means he was seeing. That is another television. Another television. That television is unknown now. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu. Premāñjana-churrita-bhakti-vilocanena. This is also television. The television machine is within the heart. One can see everything, provided he has learned the art how to see, that television within the heart.

Girirāja: (finishes synonyms) "Translation: Sañjaya said: O King, speaking thus, the Supreme, the Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna."

Dr. Patel: Shall I read?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Yesterday, in your lecture, you mentioned how in this age it's very difficult to remain chaste or free of...

Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is putting limitation on Kṛṣṇa, to say that you cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is putting a limitation on Kṛṣṇa if one says that He cannot be seen.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... Of course, you cannot challenge Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa, if He likes, He can reveal Himself to you. Therefore, you can know God. Just like Kṛṣṇa reveals. He comes and He... (aside:) Don't... He reveals Himself. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). So when man forgets, so He comes, reveals Himself. And He leaves behind Him the Bhagavad-gītā, knowledge about Him. So where is the difficulty? He comes when you forget Him, and He leaves behind Him the knowledge by which you can understand. Where is the difficulty?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They have got form, worship, the Sufis?

Guest: They don't worship form as such, but they ah, they speak of it in the poetry. They say ah...in one point (indistinct) There is a meeting between (indistinct) and his spiritual master. And he asked the spiritual master (unknown language). I asked, He asked what was this current, this chain of idols that we must worship? And he replied, "So that my heart might, might mourn, lament, the dark night."

Prabhupāda: The dark night?

Guest: The dark night of ignorance...

Prabhupāda: Oh, darkness.

Guest: ...of separation from God. So that they use the form of expression, worship...

Prabhupāda: Separation, how it is possible? Separation is expressed when there is separation between man to man, man to woman. First, otherwise what is the meaning of separation?

Guest: Separation from his divine...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then it must be person. They do not believe in the Personality of Godhead?

Guest: They believe, the Sufis, see the personality of Ali.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking of the Sufis, I am talking of the original Islam.

Guest: The Sufis claim to be the original process.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on—the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That's it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin's literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): They say that "It's natural to die. So everybody has to die. So we just have to accept it."

Prabhupāda: No, the philosophy is very simple. You don't want suffering, but where is a person who has got this material body is not suffering?

Paramahaṁsa: But then they will say, "Where is a person who has not got this material body?"

Prabhupāda: There, that is unknown to them. There is another world where there is no material body. Everyone is in spiritual body. That they do not know. That is ignorance.

Paramahaṁsa: They don't feel so bad because they think everyone is suffering, so...

Prabhupāda: So nobody feels bad, even the cats and dogs. That does not mean there is no suffering. Cats and dogs... Just like in this car, the gentleman, his wife, and the dog. The dog is feeling more happy.

Paramahaṁsa: He has less anxieties.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The dog is feeling, "Who can be happier than me?"

Paramahaṁsa: Actually, in the West the dogs have a very good program. If they have a good master, then...

Prabhupāda: But after all, he is dog. (laughs) That he does not know. He may be, according to his estimation, very well situated. But after all, what he is? He is a dog. That he does not know. That he forgets. (break) Very calm and quiet. (break) ...glass. Is it not?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Indian society, the did not know how to drink tea even. In our childhood we have seen that Britishers started tea garden. There was no tea plants before Britishers. The Britishers saw the labor is very cheap, and they want to do business, they started. Just like they are doing in Africa. So many gardens, coffee and tea. So they started, and the tea was transferred to be sold in America. They were after business. So the... Now, so much tea, who will consume? The government started a tea sets committee. All the tea garden holders they would pay government. And road to road, street to street, their business was canvassing, preparing tea, very nice, palatable tea, and they advertising if you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry, and your malaria will go away and so on, so on. And people began to drink tea. Nice cup. I have seen it. Now they have got a taste. Now gradually now a sweeper also, early in the morning, is waiting in the tea shop to get a cup of tea.

Tea was taken in our childhood if somebody is coughing, sometimes they used to tea. That was also later. But it was unknown. Drinking tea, drinking wine, smoking, meat-eating—these things were unknown. Prostitution. There was prostitution. Not that everyone is prostitute. Very strict. So these things should be taken care of—at least a class of men must be ideal for people others will see. And the training should go on, just like we are doing. We are inviting people to come to chant with us, to dance with us, take prasādam. And gradually they are becoming. The same (?) addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat-eating, he is becoming saintly person. This is practical, you can see, what was their previous history and what they are now.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: You have to have a lot of faith.

Prabhupāda: He can do that, but you must have faith. Otherwise no shaving. So many... Suppose you are going to some unknown place. Now we are purchasing, paying two thousand dollars, ticket. But where is the guarantee that you will go there? You are paying first money, but there is no guarantee that you will go there. Then how do you get the ticket? How do you get on the plane unless, without faith? So faith, without faith you cannot move an inch. It must be there. (break) ...believe, "No, no, this ticket is issued by the Pan American. They are good company, and so many people are going. So I will go also." That's all. So faith. You never went there, neither you know whether it will be possible to go there. But still, you have to do. That is faith. (break)

Baradrāj: The airplane may crash.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. There is no guarantee that you will reach there. But still you have to purchase ticket. You have to get on the plane. That is faith.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their opinion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? If these scientists, they landed on the Rahu planet, that means that...

Prabhupāda: That could be, but some... Just like somebody was saying that there are many planets unknown. They might have gone to some... Just like there are many parts of the world you have never seen. Even on this planet, you cannot say that you have seen all the parts of the world. That is not possible. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: As far as these unidentified flying objects that Werner Von Braun was recently mentioning, he says that previously they've had many sightings. They've seen these and filmed these, but they're afraid to release them or the government is afraid to acknowledge them because they're afraid it would cause a panic amongst the world.

Prabhupāda: What is that panic?

Paramahaṁsa: A panic that everyone would be frightened with the fact that there is people from other planets.

Prabhupāda: And they are not frightened? Without this knowledge they are not frightened, as if they are safe. (laughter) Are they safe without that knowledge? They are frightened of your atomic bomb. Who is not frightened? Who is that rascal who is not frightened? Is there any person who is not frightened?

Paramahaṁsa: A fool.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:
Brahmānanda: No one wants to suffer alone.

Prabhupāda: Cutting the tail of the jackal. (Bengali) "My tail is cut, so your tail must be cut." This is a fashion. (pause) That is practical. The world is working so hard but where is the peace and happiness? Brahmānanda: It's coming. Prabhupāda: (laughs) When it will come? That is unknown. Brahmānanda: Maybe at the end of this century. Prabhupāda: And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy. You'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see. Indian man (1): It is evident that miseries are growing darker and darker. Prabhupāda: That must be because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Brahmānanda: At the present moment, I was reading, there is one girl in America, New Jersey, teenage girl. And for some unknown reason she went to sleep one night, and in the morning she did not wake up. So they then rushed her to the hospital, and they have an artificial machine that is keeping her alive, and this has been going on for one month. All of her bodily functions are becoming more and more diminished, but still, by this machine, she is alive. Now this has gone on for one month. So now they don't know what to do with her. Should they keep her like this, just running on the machine, or should they stop the machine and then she will die? This is a big legal problem. They don't know what... If they stop the machine, they'll be accused of manslaughter.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some Catholic priest said that better to let her die, because this is God's way.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept the God's way and give up the machine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But in a situation like that, isn't it more valuable to preserve human life because there's the chance...

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a chance that somehow or another, they might be...

Prabhupāda: Why should you take the chance? You are perplexed with overpopulation. And why you want to stay? One side, you are perplexed with overpopulation. Let him die.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.

Prabhupāda: In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tea?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it. And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done. There was a tea taxes committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America… Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as "tea taxes committee." The tea taxes committee, in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (to driver) Go down this street, Prabhu.

Prabhupāda: Nationalism was unknown to India. They never thought.

Bhargava: … allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the Vedic culture?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhargava: Why did Kṛṣṇa allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the…

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is your father's servant that you do something wrong and Kṛṣṇa has to check it? Is your Kṛṣṇa your father's servant? Then why do you ask this question? If you allow somebody to cut your head, has Kṛṣṇa to come to save you? Why do you ask this nonsense question? You are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Samo ’haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu. If you cut your own head, what Kṛṣṇa will do? In the same term, nationalism, as Vedic culture is Kṛṣṇa's national affair, your disease is there. Why Kṛṣṇa will come to save the Vedic culture? What business He has got? If you are spoiling it, then why Kṛṣṇa will come? Spoil, and suffer. (break) … the same question in a different way, "Why India? Why Kṛṣṇa?" as if Kṛṣṇa is Indian. Kṛṣṇa is Indian? Then why do you ask this question, that “Kṛṣṇa will come to save India's culture?”

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break) You have done good because you are waiting for somebody's decision. So the decision-maker can change. Otherwise so many people are working so hard day and night; he is not getting even sufficient food. And another man, without working, he is getting so much money. How it is possible? Hm? So God is not an instrument of your whims. He is fully independent. That is God. Agatan gatan patiyase.(?) By His different energy He can..., does something which is impossible to be done. Take for example myself. I went to United States, unknown country, without any friend, without any hope, simply on theory (chuckles) that "I shall go and preach there," and with this expectation also, that "As soon as I shall ask them to give up all these habits, they will ask me to go away." (laughs) So in the face of so many odds and uncertainty, I went there, simply depending on my spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, with this hope only, that "If they desire, everything can be done. But otherwise there is no hope. I am going there, hopeless, just to make an experiment. My other Godbrothers, they failed. All right, Guru Mahārāja asked me. In the beginning I did not do. Let me do it in this old age." So it became surprisingly success. Business started with forty rupees, and now we have got four crores. Where is that business in the material world, that a man started business with forty rupees and he has got four crores within ten years? Not only money, but also fame, respect. What do these kings and president or minister get respect?

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He doesn't believe in.

Yaśomatīnandana: No. He doesn't believe in Kṛṣṇa. He comes to the words that "You surrender everything to Kṛṣṇa." Then he says, "Well, actually this Bhagavad-gītā is written by some man, unknown man." So I said, "What is the value of it then? Why are you quoting Bhagavad-gītā? Why are you learning it?" "It is knowledge, very nice knowledge." "So any knowledge imparted by any mundane man, what value does it have?"

Prabhupāda: Why don't you accept it? What is the use of quoting?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. That they will not do because they know they can make money by quoting Bhagavad-gītā. People will not accept anybody if they openly say that they don't believe in Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: That was going on. It is the first time. We are pressing: "You must take it seriously." It is the first time. Otherwise this was going on, at least for the last two hundred years.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Western learned circle, they are admitting that the greatest contribution of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is these authentic translation of Vedic literature. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Mahāṁsa: (break) Many people in Bangalore, when I went to see them, they knew about our movement. "Oh, yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. You all do bhajan..." They call us bhajan mandali. Then when we started preaching to them, showing them the philosophy, the books and all the activities that we are doing all over the world, they were really, they were shocked. They said, "Oh, we never knew you were doing so much." And they said there is no other organization which is comprising of all the different kinds of activities, all kinds of welfare and spiritual activities that we are doing. If we just had many preaching parties and go all over and show people what all the activities that we are doing, people will accept us. They will know more about our movement. Otherwise right now they just think that we are just a kīrtana group, bhajan mandali.

Prabhupāda: (break) What did he speak?

Mahāṁsa: He spoke on different verses, one by one, of the twelfth chapter. But no conclusion. Every lecture there was no conclusion. So he leaves the people in a blank. There is no conclusion to any of his lectures. And his philosophy is "Kṛṣṇa means black. Black means unknown. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Kṛṣṇa is unknown. We cannot know Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: And what about others' version who knows Kṛṣṇa? Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu or all the ācāryas? (end)

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Dimmock. "Here is definitive..."

Haṁsadūta: Version.

Nitai: "Definitive edition."

Prabhupāda: "Definitive edition." That is the credit. Not "may be." No "maybe," sir. That is rascaldom.

Harikeśa: In our social science we find that God is only necessary to define the unknown. Otherwise He has no purpose.

Prabhupāda: No, our God is not unknown. Known. We know God's residence. We know God's father, God's mother, God's activities, God's friends. Everything we know. There is no "maybe."

Harikeśa: Just like in the former days when the savages saw thunderbolts...

Prabhupāda: The savage... You may be savage. We are not savage. You may be savage, but we are not savage. We are civilized.

Harikeśa: Therefore we don't have so many unknown things, so we don't need God.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: We're civilized, so we have so many things we know now, so we don't need God.

Prabhupāda: No, we know everything. Who says we do not know? We know everything.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: This the..., this theory is going on perpetually, whether there is soul or not. But these people, these Russians, they are so ignorant, they will not allow anybody to believe that there is soul. Atheistic, stubborn atheistic. Although they cannot answer this question that there must be something superior which is moving this body. And they cannot answer the, what is that superior element.

Harikeśa: The unknown chemical.

Prabhupāda: Not unknown. It is unknown to you. But known to us. If it is unknown to you, you take, you know it from me. That is real knowledge. Why you persist that "It is unknown"? It should remain ever unknown? Why shall I take from anyone else? That's a fact. Either you answer what is that element which is missing so that the body is now dead. Simply your denial is obstinacy. That is dog's obstinacy. Then you are like a dog. You answer that: "This is the reason." Make experiment; prove it. Then you are right. So long you cannot do it, simply denying, that is dog's obstinacy. If you, as you say, there is no soul, it is chemical combination, so bring the chemicals and put him into life. Then your statement is right. You cannot do it and simply persist. This is doggish. You are calling a lump of matter your father, your child, your relative, and when the soul is gone, you say, "Oh, my father is gone." Why your father is gone? He's lying there on the bed. The same coat, pant, face, ear, eyes. Why do you say, "My father has gone"? What is this nonsense? So that chemical combination is your father? Bring your father again, chemical combination. Hmm? What is the answer? Some foolish, rubbish thing, presentation, will it be accepted as knowledge?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes. After coming back from foreign countries, he made his position here in Madras.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Beautiful building.

Acyutānanda: In Calcutta we have a life member, Veni Śaṅkara Sharma? You stayed at his house?

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Acyutānanda: So he wrote a book called An Unknown Chapter of the Life of Swami Vivekananda. And in there he openly says that he smoked a hookah and ate meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is known to everyone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Was he praising that?

Acyutānanda: It was.... You know...

Yaśodānandana: In Hyderabad there is a cook who used to cook for the Rāmakrishna Mission, and he said they used to cook any kind of meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: I said, "Did you ever cook human meat?" He said, "If they told me, I would have done that also." There was nothing beyond their diet. "Anything they told me to cook..."

Prabhupāda: This building belongs to Vivekananda's society, no? Vivekananda house.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) This is basis of Gītā. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Learn from the real person, tattva-darśinaḥ, who has seen, who has actual experience of the truth. Learn from him. The Gītā never recommends that you imagine and make your theories. Never said. That is the Vedic culture. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). This is the way. Take lesson from Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then you will get experience. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is the use of imagining?

Harikeśa: I mean, after all, all this talk about God was simply there because of man's desire to explain the unknown. He saw a thunderbolt and...

Prabhupāda: It is unknown to the rascal man. It is known to the sober man. (laughter) He should become sober instead of becoming a rascal. That is required. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne (BG 5.18). Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "He knows, who has accepted the ācārya." This is Theosophical Society, I think. Huh? That trademark. Or Rāmakrishna Mission.

Acyutānanda: No, Salvation Army.

Prabhupāda: Salvation Army, oh.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1976, Madras:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a statement in the Bhagavad-gītā that if one is engaged in the service of the Lord, even if he falls down, he is to be considered saintly. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30).

Prabhupāda: Yes, if it is accidental. If it is purposefully, then he is not saintly; then he is offender.

Bharadvaja(?): Accidentally means that māyā...

Prabhupāda: Accident.... He had former habit, and unknowingly he has done something wrong. That is accident. That is explained by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Not purposefully doing wrong. That is aparādha. Nāmnād balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.

Acyutānanda: The Deities' name is Rādhā-Parthasarathi.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Acyutānanda: The name of the Delhi Deities is Rādhā-Parthasarathi. So how do we understand? Because Partha means Arjuna. So Rādhā, how does Rādhā get there?

Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa is Parthasarathi, Rādhā is out of Him? Does it mean?

Indian man (1): What you mean, Parthasarathi is Śrī Kṛṣṇa.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādini-śaktir. When He is fighting, the āhlādini-śakti is there. It is not manifest.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Nobody cares for him, and he is thinking that "great personality." Where is his greatness? Who knows him? Just see. So he is making a plan to declare himself a great personality.

Bhavānanda: It goes on to explain why he is such a great personality.

Prabhupāda: So why explain? If he is great personality, everyone should know. Why he is trying to explain? What is the use of explanation? If a great personality is unknown, and he has to be known by explanatory notes, then how he is great personality?

Bhavānanda: Just like the President of the United States. He doesn't have to say, "I am the President." Everyone knows.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go on reading.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "These people, they have no illicit sex, no intoxication?" Oh, immediately they become praising, "Such wonderful men. No illicit sex?" which is unknown to you, the Western people.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think it is like Superman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Superman, actually. That is the fact.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, today starts a big international convention for the Association for Asian Studies, and we're there. It's in Toronto. We have an advertisement in this book, with Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, with a quote by that Bruce Long. And we have that big sign at our booth: "The largest publisher and distributor of books on the philosophy, culture and religion of India." This shows also with all the exhibitors, we're listed, the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. And this is where we are, this booth here.

Prabhupāda: So who is taking care?

Satsvarūpa: Two of the library men who didn't come, just so they could go to this convention.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...therefore they search. And who goes to the airport? All respectable gentlemen, who can pay lump sum for air fare. So he's also searched out. That means there is no gentlemen. The airport security is searching through. Then in this world there is no gentleman, no honest men.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To a devotee it is very clear, the laws of karma. He sees how that God, Kṛṣṇa, is just.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee means tattva-darśī. He has seen the real truth. Devotee means who follows Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is giving the real truth. If you take, then you are devotee. If you don't take, you are nondevotee.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the role of mercy if one takes or doesn't take?

Prabhupāda: Mercy means.... Suppose you are a devotee. Unknowingly or by some bad habit you have done something wrong. That is excused. But if you intentionally do, that "I am devotee; Kṛṣṇa will excuse me," then you are rascal.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the greatest offense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating. Cheating Kṛṣṇa. Cheating Kṛṣṇa is no business. That is to be punished. You cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa. But if by accident, knowingly or unknowingly you have done something which is not good, that is excused. Sva-pāda-mūlaṁ bhajataḥ priyasya. If you are actually, because you have given so much service to Kṛṣṇa, you have become very dear to Him, so unknowingly you have done, committed sin—excused. Bhajataḥ priyasya. This word is used. You must have to become very dear to Him. Then if you accidentally commit some sin, that is excused.

Guru dāsa: What does "unknowingly" mean, Śrīla...

Prabhupāda: Unknowingly means..., suppose you are a smoker. So now you have given up everything. But in the association of some smoker you incline, "All right, let me smoke." Then you regret, "Oh, I have done this." It can happen. So that is excused. But if you think, "Now I am a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. I can smoke like anything, and everything will be excused," then you are a rascal.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We have got. We have already planned.

Devotee: That has been seen in Māyāpur. That has been...In Bombay there's a very big temple, we are building, with a center. In (indistinct), Vṛndāvana,...

Prabhupāda: My point is that what I am speaking, it is not unknown to India, but they are so misfortunate that they don't take it. That is the difficulty. So so unfortunate they have become that they don't take it. What shall I speak in India? The same thing.

Reporter (2): So that is all the more reason why your work is needed.

Prabhupāda: No, we are doing. As far as possible, we have got center. The people are so overintelligent, don't take it. "Ah, what Hare Kṛṣṇa? We have heard it. Ah, we have seen Bhagavad-gītā." That is.... If you become neglectful, that is the greatest offense. So India is offender. It is India's philosophy, what I am preaching others. India doesn't require to be known to be aware. It is.... They already know it, but they won't take it. They have become so unfortunate. That is the difficulty. If you don't take it, then how you'll become rich? Suppose if I give you—"Take this one thousand dollars"—but if you don't take it, then what benefit will be there? India's position is like that.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Now, if you should take good family means wealthy family, then America, there is no poor family. There is no question of poverty. So how do you distinguish that he's coming from good family, he's coming from bad family? Poverty is unknown to them. Nobody is uneducated. Then how you distinguish who is bad and who is good? Everyone is good—unless he voluntarily becomes bad, hippie. Otherwise everyone is coming from very good family, rich family, educated family.

Reporter (2): Do you have a large number of American negroes in your movement, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Not large number, but there are.

Reporter (2): Is there any reason why that is so?

Prabhupāda: That is.... There is reason. They are not very much cultured.

Reporter (5): Do you have women followers also in this movement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. America, men and women have got equal rights.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Hari-śauri: We're learning.

Prabhupāda: I do not know how long you'll learn.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) It's like you said in Māyāpur. It's a little artificial for us. It's very.... It's not...

Prabhupāda: Cleanliness unknown to the Western people.

Hari-śauri: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Śaucam. Satya-śaucābhyām. Śaucam means cleanliness. The Western people, they do not know what is cleanliness. And therefore brāhmaṇa's another name is śuci, always clean. Three times' bathing, three times' changing cloth. It doesn't matter, loin cloth, but cloth must be changed.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Outer cloth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dhoti, like that?

Prabhupāda: No, you take bath. You have to change your cloth. It becomes wet. This is cleanliness. Satya-śaucābhyām. Śamena damena ca brahmacarya, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya, the first beginning of tapasya, is brahmacārī. Yamena niyamena vā tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ yamena niyamena vā. This is human life, tapasā, brahmacaryeṇa, śamena, damena vā (SB 6.1.13), then truthfulness, cleanliness, controlling the senses. So these things are required. Otherwise what is the difference between dog's life?

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Mādhavānanda: Is that not the next inquiry?

Prabhupāda: The mother is there, the children are there. The next inquiry is..., suppose unknown man comes to him, "Where is your father?" So who is the father? And father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am father." Finished. Father is God. God has created this earth. He has impregnated the earth with the living entities, and they are coming out. Where is the difficulty? But because they are in ignorance, rascals, it takes long, long time to understand this simple truth. So dull-headed. The children are there and mother is there, and why father, there should be no father? What is the answer?

Satsvarūpa: That the mother is just some symbolic idea, there is no...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, mother it is. Mother means who begets, who gives birth. You practically see, grass to the highest form of life, they are coming from earth, living at the cost of the earth. The earth is supplying food, food grains, vegetables. So mother..., as child is growing by sucking the mother's breast, so we are living at the cost of mother. She is giving us milk, she is giving us everything. That is mother. And śāstra, the earth is considered mother. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī... but they have no knowledge. Mother means who creates my body, who gives me feeding in the beginning, gives me strength. That is mother. How you can understand mother otherwise? So mother is there, earth. Dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī. Pṛthvī is mother. And practically we see. She is giving, the mother earth is giving birth to so many varieties of children-8,400,000. Then the next inquiry should be: the mother is there, the children are there, then where is the father? That answer is given by Kṛṣṇa: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am the father." So where is the difficulty to understand the Supreme Lord? But they are so dull-headed that they have no even common sense, and they're passing as philosopher, politician, and scientist, big leader, big rascal. This is going on. This is going on. And big, big rascals, they have taken the leadership of the world, and the world is in chaos, chaotic condition, everyone is unhappy, suffering.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prof. O'Connell: Swamiji, do you know Professor Bimal Motilal came in during your discourse?

Prabhupāda: Oh, (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Motilal. (converses in Hindi) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). These things are unknown in the Western countries. So anyone who has taken birth in India, Bhārata-varṣa, they should make his..., one should make his life perfect by assimilating all these śāstras and preach the resultant action to the outsiders. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission-pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) So you Indians, you are here, you assimilate the teachings of Gītā, Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and help these people. That is India's business.

Woman: Swamiji, would you say something about the place of women in your movement?

Prabhupāda: There is no distinction between man and woman. That is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpā-yonayaḥ striyo śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ (BG 9.32). The first is mentioned, striya. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ. These classes are understood to be less intelligent-woman, śūdra, and the vaiśyas. But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, even for them it is open." Because in the spiritual platform there is no such distinction, man, woman, or black, white, or big or small. No. Everyone is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ (BG 5.18), one who is actually learned, he is sama-darśinaḥ. He does not make any distinction. But so far our material body is concerned, there must be some distinction for keeping the society in order.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: These things are not required at all, but they have created. They are called anartha, unnecessarily diverting valuable attention of the human being to waste their time and energy and next life become a dog. That they do not know. This science is unknown to them. They'll believe, "This life finished, everything finished. That's all." (break) ...is working. That they do not know. Life is eternal, and how they are under the cycle of birth and death, nothing. Yāvad jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet.(?) Cārvāka philosophy. So long you live, live happily. But actually they are not living happily. To work in this factory is not happy. They are not happy men. But they are thinking they are happy. Just like the hog eating stool, he is happy. This is gross ignorance. Actually, therefore, there is revolt against these capitalist. There is another unhappiness. Now there is strike. So where is happiness? If there is happiness, why there is strike? Why there is so many strikes? Why there is protest? There is no happiness. But they are thinking... Whole thing is based on ignorance, māyā. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. And the direct method for subduing these anarthas, unnecessary troubles-bhakti-yoga. There is no other. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ (SB 1.7.6). People do not know it. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Therefore Vyāsadeva, most learned scholar, he has made this Bhāgavatam. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣāt. (break) I was translating the Bhāgavata, Eighth Canto, Twelfth Chapter.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: That means four parts. That means four books for the Eighth Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Each volume is more wonderful. Each volume...

Prabhupāda: Aḥ? Oh, yes. There is no comparison of this literature.

Kīrtanānanda: I think before you came, Bhāgavatam was unknown.

Prabhupāda: Unknown, yes. The Ramakrishna Mission published one Bhāgavatam commentary. You know that? Farce. They, these Ramakrishna Mission people have done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture. Of course it is not taken very seriously, Ramakrishna Mission.

Hari-śauri: Not in the West.

Prabhupāda: But they publicized in India that they have made all, everyone In India they were doing like that. "Vivekananda Road," "Vivekananda Square," and rascals, they do not inquire even what is Vivekananda's contribution. Pradulika(?) prabhāva.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So long the soul is there, the activities of the body are there. Otherwise not. That is explained—habit. Knowingly, unknowingly. Just like a child is passing urine. He does not know that he's passing, but the body's action is going on like that. But if the child is dead, there will be no more passing. Like that. So long the body is alive, things are happening automatically. Just like this tree, so long it is alive the leaves are coming out, the flowers are coming out, although the trees have no developed consciousness. (pause) In Bhāgavatam we see that when Nanda Mahārāja felt some disturbances from the demons, they decided to change the place. And they immediately, from Gokula, they immediately went to Vṛndāvana. But we don't find anything that they had to take permission. Hmm?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question nineteen. "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

Kṛṣṇa is not for India. He is for everyone because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, and the animals, all living entities. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Everything is there, but this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or Bhagavad-gītā as it is, was not preached properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role. Nobody tried for it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was unknown, but we are trying for this for the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Unknown.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unknown source.

Sadāpūta: So we want to argue that this demonstrates that Supersoul is acting. These cases of these very famous musicians and scientists and such, there are many of them, they can be multiplied at great length, and they are very striking that way.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are about to make a slide of Kavirāja, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, about the, writing Caitanya-caritāmṛta on the same line, direction of Supersoul. We had... But couldn't put together. We'll make several slides along these lines proving the existence of Supersoul on the human level.

Sadāpūta: We are also thinking that this inspiration illustrated the modes of nature and the law of karma to some extent, because like the mathematician had to struggle very painfully for a very long time without getting his result, and then he got it, so that seemed more like the mode of passion and like that. But Mozart apparently just got these things without having to struggle for them, as though that was his past karma or something. Next slide. This is a summary of the basic kind of argument we wanted to make. The picture on the left, those ovals represent states of matter, configurations of matter, and they go from simple, toward the bottom, like just a chemical solution, up towards more complex as you go up, like living bodies of different kinds. The theory of evolution is sort of indicated in the left-hand one. According to that theory, you have very simple natural laws, and you start out with simple physical states, but somehow these natural laws produce a progressive increase in order, as indicated by those arrows going up. But actually we want to argue that simple natural laws don't have the power to do that, and that the situation on the right is what would happen if you just had simple natural laws, namely they would keep shoving things around on a simple level but never produce anything complex. The next slide, though, indicates that if you had natural laws with a high order of complexity, then they could manifest physical situations with a high order of complexity also, depending on how much was built into the laws. So we wanted to, in these two examples, indicate a higher and higher order of natural laws. So what we wanted to do was then combine these two things together, on the one hand that consciousness is not a physical phenomenon, and on the other hand, that in order to get...

Prabhupāda: This is physical, but subtle.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is on a human platform, but we wanted to appeal purely on a scientific level to the scientists. Now in order to bring these concepts that these three modes of nature, because of mixing of these three modes of nature it produces different species, varieties of species... Now this is completely unknown to them. They have no idea about these modes. So somehow we thought if we bring some specific examples like this, that looking the products of nature as a source, not worrying about transcendental or not, (microphone rattling)

Prabhupāda: What is the use of such things? If you particularly study that this living entity is now in this mode, say goodness fifty percent and passion ten percent, in this way, but it can change at any moment. You cannot fix it up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is good, because if we argue this we can always defeat this concept of evolution. Our main point is to defeat the concept of evolution.

Prabhupāda: No, no, evolution is already there.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: For burning it in the fire?

Dr. Sukla: Yes, he said so that we can make our capatis, to have some use of those things. And Kṛṣṇa, of course, there's hardly a village in India where, whether knowingly or unknowingly, people are not aware what is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: In India they know, everyone. They observe Janmāṣṭamī.

Dr. Sukla: Kṛṣṇa paraṁ bhajami. In India everybody knows Kṛṣṇa, even the illiterate person, but nobody knows Vivekananda. Only a few people, they started a Vedanta Society. Of course Veda is a very serious literature, it's not just anybody can get into that, it's a very, it's a disciplic...

Prabhupāda: Brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumādbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). Very.... Nyāya-praṣṭhāna. But Vedānta-sūtra is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, they did not write any comment on the Vedānta-sūtra. They accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real bhāṣya. But when the Gauḍīya-Vaiṣṇavas are challenged that "You have no Vedānta-sūtra-bhāṣya, therefore you cannot be accepted as transcendental party," so Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana immediately gave Govinda-bhāṣya on Vedānta. Our Gosvāmīs, they did not write because they knew Brahma-sūtra bhāṣya, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Well, in the natural world and in the cosmos, nothing is stable. Life only survives all the things that can cause it to perish by mobility, by moving. A coconut tree on one island drops its seeds in the ocean to float for thousands of miles to wash up on another shore, so that if that island is destroyed it will have life on another island. The seed blossom of a plant is the way the plant survives. It sends its seeds off to other meadows to assure its survival. The premise here is that humanity arrived in nature very recently. We are part of nature, but we arrived very recently to give life on earth the same mobility, the same chance to survive. Among the hundreds of other planets in the universe, as a dandelion does in seeding other meadows, as a coconut palm does in surviving on other islands—the coconut palm does not know that there are other islands, but yet it launches its seeds to the unknown currents of the ocean—I believe it is our duty to launch our seeds, our space arks, launch those seeds to the unknown gravitational currents of the stars and find the hundreds of other planets that are out there, so that there cannot be enough cosmic disasters to cause life to perish. And it was meeting two or three of your people at the airport, and I asked them about—at the Washington National Airport, I think it was Meena and Mary Davis, and Sarvabhauma I believe—and I said "What about your philosophy?" He said, "We talk about living on other planets." Boy, (laughs) right away I got very interested. And I believe people have had visions of life to other planets because I believe that's our destiny, and that is our reason for existence in nature. I've been interested in the Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll say why? I'm a materialistic type, why am I here? (laughs) You have an interesting philosophy that... You see, not all of us can be building space arks, not all of us can leave the earth, and we should not be using up all our material resources, destroying all other life unnecessarily. And I think that we have to adopt a life style that is a little simpler, that we would enjoy life on this earth, where most of us have to stay, with lesser material requirements. Secondly, I believe we are going to have to have a different type of society on a space ark if we're going to have maybe a hundred years to two hundreds years going to another star. The traditional societies that we are familiar with may not be able to survive the social pressures. Maybe this type of an environment-Is this communal, would you say?—I think it's going to have to be some type of communal environment to survive this kind of a trip. So this is my interest in the Kṛṣṇa movement. I think they seem to have the visions of going to other planets, which I think is our only reason for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, I was discussing. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planetary system where the devas, the demigods live. Their duration of life is very, very big. Our six months is equal to one day there. Such ten thousands of years they live. But they die. It is not permanent. But the duration of life is very big, the standard of life is very high. These are the advantages. But there is death, old age, disease; birth, death, old age and disease. But if you transfer yourself in the spiritual kingdom, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then you don't get any more material birth there. That is because we are eternal, we living entities. We do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After giving up this body we do not die actually; we accept another body.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: In the Kali-yuga one cannot maintain even one wife, what to speak of more than one. They are afraid to marry one wife. I first heard this, one elderly lady in New York. At that time, I was newcomer. I asked her, "Why don't you get your son married?" "Yes, he can be married, provided he can maintain wife," she said. So these things were unknown to us. In India, whether he'll be able to maintain... Just like I was married when I was third-year student. Where is the income? There is no income, but still I was married.

Hari-śauri: That was formerly the Western system, that the prospective son-in-law would be checked first to see whether he would be able to maintain the girl.

Prabhupāda: No, that is everywhere. But expectation, he is educated, he'll be able. The first thing is in due time, either the girl or the boy must be married, that is Indian system. In due time. Boy not exceeding twenty years or twenty-five years, at most, and girl not exceeding fifteen years, sixteen years, must be. Saṁskāra, this is one of the saṁskāras. Just like garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, this is also one saṁskāra, and marriage is also saṁskāra. Must be married. Daśa-vidha-saṁskāra, ten kinds of saṁskāras, out of which marriage is one of the saṁskāras. And kanyā-dāya. Kanyā-dāya, dāya means by law the father is bound to get his daughter married, by law. He cannot escape the responsibility. This is father's duty.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: How there can be, because the democracy? You are corrupt, therefore your government is corrupt. You correct yourself, the government will be automatically corrected. If you are rascals, the government will be rascals. The government means elected. So if you are not rascal, you'll not elect another rascal to take charge of the government affairs. But because you are rascal, you'll send another rascal. So how can you expect good government? You do not know whom to select. And besides that, the whole population is rascal, śūdra. So anyone you elect, if he's by qualification he's a śūdra, worker, he's not intelligent person, he's not brāhmaṇa, he's not kṣatriya. Actually, the legislative assembly, or in your country, Senate? They should be all brāhmaṇas. They give advice. Formerly this was the system. Although it was monarchy, even Lord Rāmacandra or similar kings, they were not ruling independently—they were taking advice from learned brāhmaṇas, sages. So the legislative assembly should be composition of intellectual brāhmaṇas. Then the other administrators, the President or the minister, they should be kṣatriyas. In this way, if social organization is made, then there will be perfect peace. If śūdras are allowed to rule over, what they know? Their only aim is that so long he is in the office, "Let me collect some money," that's all. And that will be the latest atmosphere, dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. All the government men will become thieves and rogues. Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force. So people will be very much embarrassed by two things: one thing is taxation, and another thing will be scarcity of food. In this way, all the people all over the world will be embarrassed, so much so that they will leave their home, hearth and home, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being separated from family and property, they will take shelter in the hilly ranges or in the forest to get relief. This will be the position. Harassment, so much harassment, by nature, by government. So therefore for complete happy society, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. All intelligent persons, they should join this movement and reform the present social, political, religious. All field of activities, they should reform. Then people will be happy. Not only happy in this life, but also next life. Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). These things are unknown. Very risky life. If I am prime minister in this life or president, and if I am going to become a dog next life, then what is the benefit of becoming prime minister or president? And nature's law is that you get your next life according to the mentality at the time of death. So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death. Then next life is cats and dogs. So I may be worshiped here in a statue, that "Here is our beloved prime minister," and next life, I'm barking as a dog.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Indian man (5): Swami? I have one question which is widely discussed everywhere, that eating of meat is sin. Now we see that while for our survival, while walking, while working we kill so many things, knowingly or unknowingly, is it not sin that?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (to swami guest) Ayi. Give him āsana. Ayi Jaya. (Hindi) What is that question? Just try to understand.

Devotee (2): Why is meat-eating sin?

Hari-śauri: He said he can understand meat-eating is sin, but when we are doing our ordinary work and normal functions, aren't we killing so many other things? So is that sin or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also sin. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that whatever you eat, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). Anyone is cooking something, meat or vegetables, for his own eating, he is eating only sin. It is not that the vegetarians are not sinful and the meat-eaters are sinful. Everyone is sinful if it is not cooked for Kṛṣṇa. It is not that we are propagating that you become vegetarian. We are propagating that you become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our propaganda. But because we are trying to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, we offer something to Kṛṣṇa. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So not patraṁ puṣpam, whatever within this group available, fruits, flowers, grains, milk, so we offer to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). If you do not perform yajña, then you will be bound up by the resultant action. So this is yajña, to offer to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña means to satisfy Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-ārādhyate. Yajña means satisfy Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, then you are sinful. Not that if you become vegetarian, then you are not sinful. Not that. Because you have to eat something. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Either you eat vegetable or meat, you have to eat something. So somebody prefers eating animals, and somebody prefers eating vegetables, but all of them have got life.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So tomorrow I shall take lunch at 1:00. That's all. Then, by 3:00 o'clock, I shall be ready. (to Indian man:) (Hindi?) Kṛṣṇa is preparing you to join this movement wholeheartedly. It is very nice. Now you have got it?

Jayādvaita: Yes. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja quotes, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). "All these incarnations of Godhead are either plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." Then he says, "The Bhāgavatam describes the symptoms and deeds of the incarnations in general and counts Śrī Kṛṣṇa among them. This made Sūta Gosvāmī greatly apprehensive. Therefore he distinguished each incarnation by its specific symptoms. All the incarnations of Godhead are plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but the primeval Lord is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the fountainhead of all incarnations. An opponent may say, 'This is your interpretation, but actually the Supreme Lord is Nārāyaṇa, who is in the transcendental realm. He, Nārāyaṇa, incarnates as Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is the meaning of the verse as I see it. There is no need for further consideration.' To such a misguided interpreter we may reply, 'Why should you suggest such fallacious logic? An interpretation is never accepted as evidence if it opposes the principles of scripture. One should not state a predicate before its subject, for it cannot thus stand without proper support.' If I do not state a subject, I do not state a predicate. First I speak the former and then the latter. The predicate of a sentence is what is unknown to the reader, whereas the subject is what is known to him. For example, we may say, 'This vipra is a greatly learned man.' In this sentence, the vipra is the subject, and the predicate is his erudition. The man's being a vipra is known, but his erudition is unknown. Therefore the person is identified first and his erudition later. In the same way all these incarnations were known, but whose incarnations they are was unknown. First the word ete, 'these,' establishes the subject, the incarnation. Then 'plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras' follows as the predicate. In the same way, when Kṛṣṇa was first counted among the incarnations, specific knowledge about Him was still unknown. Therefore the word Kṛṣṇa appears as the subject followed by the predicate, describing Him as the original Personality of Godhead. This establishes that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. The original Personality of Godhead is therefore necessarily Kṛṣṇa. Had Kṛṣṇa been the plenary portion and Nārāyaṇa the primeval Lord, the statement of Sūta Gosvāmī would have been reversed. Thus he would have said, 'Nārāyaṇa, the source of all incarnations, is the original Personality of Godhead. He has appeared as Śrī Kṛṣṇa.' "

Prabhupāda: So everything is given with logic and argument. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). First of all He's grouped among the incarnations, but Kṛṣṇa is not incarnation. He's bhagavān svayam.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Another rascal. (laughter)

Gurudāsa: They want to put the American flag on the moon and say, "It is ours."

Prabhupāda: And then lick up. "Here is American flag." (laughter) And then doglike urine(?) (within?) (laughter) So lick up, then doglike urine(?) (women?). It is useless. (laughter) Dog's business. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they feel they should explore the unknown.

Prabhupāda: That will remain everlastingly unknown. They'll never be able to push. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyaḥ. What is this speed? Even with the speed of mind and air they go many, many millions of years, it will still be... This verse of Brahma-saṁhitā, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'py asti avicintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). It is inconceivable. It will never be done. They have some vague idea, "There is no life. There is this. There is that." That's... Real knowledge they'll never get. Real knowledge you'll get from Bhāgavata.

Rādhāvallabha: They don't even know what is inside the ocean, what to speak of other planets.

Prabhupāda: And if they take photograph of the ocean, what they will understand what is within the ocean? Suppose they have taken photograph of the ocean. Does it mean the full knowledge of ocean?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Only speculation, only speculation.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: What system?

Prabhupāda: This meat-eating, chicken juice, tea, these things are unknown to India. No, why India? By nature, you say that you refused meat. Although you were born of a father and mother meat-eaters, still. What a horrible civilization they have made. He's human being born. Making him animal by culture. Instead of making him more cultured towards the spiritual life, making him redirected again to animal life. This is the civilization, Western civilization.

Hari-śauri: Yes, there's not much choice, not any choice.

Prabhupāda: These children are fortunate. Yesterday I was astonished how these children were receiving just like friend, laughing and something saying, you have seen it? As an old friend. Their mother pushes they would not come, but they were very glad to see me.

Hari-śauri: Everybody's very glad to see you.

Prabhupāda: I was astonished, that how these children take me as friend.

Hari-śauri: I don't think that's too difficult. You're the best friend for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, but after all, they are children. How they can take it as it is? So they are fortunate children, and their parents and everyone should take care of them. A very difficult age.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission,

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

He has to preach in every village and every town on the surface of the globe about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So our business is... Just this example I have given, that there is fire. I do not know the language. Still, I have to call and take help. So I am doing like that. There is a story. In Calcutta when the Britishers were establishing themselves, so one clerk was working in the office and some monkey came and scattered the office files and everything. So his boss came, he asked him, "What is this, why you?" So he cannot explain, so he began to jump like monkey, that on account of the monkey coming within the room. So when the language is unknown we have to jump and show that the monkey came.

Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique thanks you very much for receiving him, and he says that he is...

Prabhupāda: Many thanks for his coming.

Yogeśvara: ...he is very happy to see you, and he does not have any questions. He appreciates very much the Vaiṣṇava point of view.

Prabhupāda: Take this to the daughter.

Yogeśvara: And he thinks that seeing the decline of religion in the West he says it is very important that we are pushing on this mission as we are doing.

Bhūgarbha: He doesn't think he'll be able to follow the life of the Vaiṣṇavas, because our life is too difficult.

Prabhupāda: That attitude will help him. That humbleness, that "I cannot follow," that will help.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees minimum. Minimum salary America is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go you take immediately. Anything. Building materials. You simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but here there are so many difficulties.

Prabhupāda: Here simply difficulties. In comparison to other countries, I have seen that it is simply difficulty. Frankly speaking. And to speak more frankly, why there is emergency? Emergency means bad government. Otherwise, there is no necessity of emergency. Emergency proves the government is not going nice. Is it not? Why emergency? If it is normally going on nicely then where is the question of emergency?

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It was all by chance. I was for a few days guest at his father's place in Agra. I did not know that his son is in America. So he was talking about his family. He was little sorry that his eldest son went to America to study electric engineering, and he was entrapped by an English girl, and he married and settled there and did not come back. In this way... So I took the opportunity, that "Why don't you ask your son to sponsor me?" I wanted to go to America. So I did not know how seriously he took it. But I simply told him that "Why don't you ask your son to sponsor me at least for one month. So I am thinking of going to America." Then that was talking, beginning and end, that's all. I did not know that he took it very seriously. Then after two, three months, some documents came. I was receiving my letters in a post box. So when I left Delhi I used to keep my key of post box with some nice bookseller, Atmaram, he was manager. So he opened that, he got that documents. That is No Objection Certificate, Sponsor, and everything. I was out of Delhi. Then when I came back I took it. So everything was there, that sheet (indistinct) from the Indian Consulate, No Objection Certificate. Then I applied for a passport. In this way I had to go. So Gopal was unknown to me, but his father was, his father was known to me. His father was... Then his agent got me on the bus. So on the bus (I) went to Pennsylvania.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, hm. (break) ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanāgarī there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection, cow protection." He has written one book to take care of the cows. So one old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all give this book to your mother because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature. Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called Kāma-śāstra. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year... 1940's maybe. So one young woman was traveling, and another young man was traveling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.

Hari-śauri: Pseudo-intellectuals. Shameless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young boy, young girl, they began to discuss on sex openly as scientific.

Hari-śauri: What is this scientific?

Prabhupāda: Scientific means after discussing for some time you propose that "Let us enjoy sex." That's all. It is common thing in your country, unknown girl, unknown boy, and talk for some time, "Let us go to some restaurant," and then talk more intimately, and then sex.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created. You have created. Man is the architect of his own fortune. Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under māyā, you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming... "Very abominable!" Oh what nasty thing he is..." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in airplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash. Now against our movement there is propaganda in USA, charging that "He has brainwashed them." (aside:) You can come here. (Hindi) "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is our position.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Easy Journey to Other Planets. So this is a different culture, how to go to other planetary system, how to transfer the soul from one body to another. In other planets there are also living entities. One can transfer himself, after giving up this body, to anywhere he likes without any help of the sputnik, and without the help of the sputnik or any flying machine. This is the mystic system unknown to the world, but it is authorized in the Vedas, original culture of the human civilization."

Hari-śauri: It's on the tape. I'm recording it too.

Prabhupāda: So, "A preliminary booklet is presented herewith to your good self. Kindly read it carefully and let me know your reaction. We are prepared to answer all intricate questions in this subject." In this way present.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fine. I have made a lot of friends in Russia. I was going to send them. Only problem... Actually, I'll tell you what's happening with my correspondence with Russia. The Russian spying agency is so strong, they're not letting my letters get through, because...

Prabhupāda: Then don't send. What is the use of sending?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually what I was thinking of was, in my letters...

Prabhupāda: First of all see one man. Test.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, it is known. It is known. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: (BG 15.7) "This life is my part and parcel." As soon as you study what is this life, you understand Kṛṣṇa, quality, what is Kṛṣṇa. So here is the hint, that Kṛṣṇa said mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So it is very small particle. That is also mentioned in the śāstra:

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
satadhā kalpitasya ca
jīvo bhāgasya vijñeyaḥ
sa anantāya kalpate
(CC Madhya 19.140)

The measurement of soul is given there in the śāstra: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So everything is there. It is not matter. And that is instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Nāyaṁ śāstra... Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca. "This spiritual spark cannot be cut into pieces." Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned into the fire." So... (aside:) Come on. But these rascals, they are seeing that "The body is burnt into ashes, so everything is finished." And Kṛṣṇa says, adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned." So it remains. And that transmigrates. And that small particle you have no eyes to see. You say, therefore, "Why shall I believe transmigration?" How nature's law is working so subtle way? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But the ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. I say, rascal, not manufactured by me. Ahaṅkāra vimūḍha. Vimūḍha means a great rascal. Mūḍha means rascal, ass, and vi, viśeṣa, particularly, first-class ass, vimūḍha. Under false pride, he is thinking, "I am everything." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti... (BG 3.27). "I can do anything by science, by this technology." That's... Vimūḍhātmā, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Manuṣya, arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Kṛṣṇa never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehāntara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmaṇā, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Even our own men are taking our mission more seriously now that these appreciations have come. They are understanding more how this is the only hope for the whole world, very grave work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. That's a fact. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sāt... Find out this verse. We are giving a light which was unknown in the world. That's a fact. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata... Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). This is the secret of making the world happy. Anārtha. Simply they have created unwanted things, and people are suffering. So in order to cut down these anarthas, unnecessary, unwanted thing, this is the only way. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. First part? No, no, it is no Bhagavad-gītā. It is the Bhāgavatam, First part.

Hari-śauri: Oh. We don't have it. We haven't got a First Canto.

Prabhupāda: Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād.

Rāmeśvara: It's like you say. It's a new culture. Our art paintings one day will be seen all over the world. Just like now they hang art paintings in all government buildings.

Prabhupāda: It was written for this purpose. People are suffering by their concocted culture, suffering. And Guru Mahārāja wanted this. Actually it is his mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But I am... I have tried sincerely. I am not qualified, but only qualification is that I tried to do the best. That's all, that much qualification. I had faith in their program, and I thought, "I shall try my best, whatever capacity I have got." That's all. Yasya deve parā bhaktir tathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Little confident that "Why? If Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants it, my Guru Mahārāja wants it, why it will not be successful? Let me try." That's all. Mukhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ panguṁ laṅghayate girim: "A dumb man can become orator." (laughs) It is like that. I never thought that they will praise so much. What it is possible? Mukhaṁ karoti vācālam. (laughs) "A dumb man can become orator, and a lame man can cross over the mountain." Yat kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam. By the mercy of guru it is possible. So these are not stories. They are fact. That is spiritual life. All right.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So poor fund of knowledge. Accident? Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. "A man and woman becomes lusty, they have sex, and it, the body, the form, comes out. So you can cut it and then eat it." Very horrible condition of the human civilization. It is the only institution throughout the whole world who are trying to deliver people from this ignorance. We are the only. All bogus. They do not know anything, what is religion, what is happiness, what is spiritual life. Nobody knows. No... But that was covered. Now we are opening religion. The thing was there. It is not our invention, neither we can invent. But it is still unknown, and therefore they are unhappy. Their primary problem, where to live, how to eat, how to cover—that we shall take charge. Then what is the problem? You have got free boarding, free lodging, free cloth, and so much enlightenment. What do you want more?

Satsvarūpa: Some people don't like to live in the community.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Some people, they don't want to join...

Prabhupāda: Community, if you don't, you independently live. But this is the principle.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Practically everything. But these two we challenge. We can challenge. They know. Therefore they want to bluff. They know that it is not possible for them to know. They know it perfectly well. It is not possible for their so-called science to understand what is the situation of this planetary system and what is the origin of life. They do not know. They admit. Two things unknown. Everything is unknown, but especially these two things. Simply speculate and bluff and... Mūḍha. And we consider them as rascals. That's all. By taking information from Kṛṣṇa, we understand these are rascals. Duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15), bas.

Gurukṛpā: Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that... We say, "They are rascals," and they say, "These are rascals, brainwashing." This is the position.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may have, but you cannot answer the ultimate question. They have got also science, art. A dog can understand that a foreigner is coming, and he begins to bark, "Yow! Yow! Yow!" and the master understands that somebody unknown is coming. You have got that science, that from mile or some, some distant place you can understand that some unknown person is coming. But dog can understand. He has got this art. He is better intelligent than you. Everyone has got some particular. That does not mean there is brain. Brain means to understand the problem of life. That is brain.

Pradyumna: But ultimately our intelligence comes from scripture and Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, that... Apart from scripture, logic, argument come. Scripture we take. That is our business. But you answer on common ground. Where is the difference why there is dead man and alive? What is your answer? Set aside scripture.

Ādi-keśava: That, they say, is beyond our intelligence.

Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What did you reply?

Girirāja: Well, I said that we knew what his philosophy was, and that we were not impressed by it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He defines Kṛṣṇa as the dark unknowing within. That's his definition of Kṛṣṇa, Swami Cinmayananda.

Prabhupāda: How you explain the unknown if you do not know? How do you speak "unknown"? You know or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He doesn't define Kṛṣṇa. I mean he doesn't speak about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone. If unknown, then how do you say unknown? You know. You know Him as unknown.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Contradiction.

Prabhupāda: Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). This picture is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where should it be hung?

Prabhupāda: Hung?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would be nice if it could be hung where you can see it easily.

Prabhupāda: Just by the side, it will be placed?

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Vaiṣṇava-aparādha. The weak and the fools, they will be victimized. What can be done? Tīrtha-guru, the pāṇḍā is accepted tīrtha-guru... That... But he takes to Jagannātha temple and other holy places, gives him instruction about the holy places and so on, so on, shelter, food, in this way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. There is such a thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am unknown, so he helps me in every respect. So Vaiṣṇava accepts everyone as guru, śikṣā-guru, dīkṣā-guru, then tīrtha-guru. This is no harm. But what is this rascal, "No, no, you cannot sit down here. You take the flag and pay me hundred rupees?" if you are so rascal, who can save you?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tīrtha-goru.

Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-goru, that is called. That risk is there because in India there are so many places, holy places. If you are not expert, you'll be victimized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this svarūpa-siddhi?

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, that is bogus. Svarūpa-siddhi is not that you do all nonsense things and svarūpa-siddhi... Svarūpa-siddhi means when he is actually liberated, he understands what is his relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is svarūpa-siddhi. Sākhya... So that is far away. Unless... If he's such a fool, then where is svarūpa-siddhi?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Woman? Woman?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, Amrtabal Singh is the name. And he told me he didn't have time to talk with me because, he said, he had a meeting. So I told him that I just came to see the director, but since the director is not there I just want to let him know that "We want to hold a conference on life sciences and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so if you are interested, I'd like to invite you because you're a leading scientist. And the Bose Institute is quite well known. So I'd like you to participate in our conference." Then he asked me, "What is that conference?" Then I started describing about the way modern science is going at this time. "Science says that everything is molecules. So what do you think as a scientist? Now, the way we communicate... I talk with you, and you talk to me, but the way we communicate, science say that these are just chemical reactions. You talk because of some chemical reactions. And so what do you think about this modern philosophy?" Then I started talking about the very unsatisfactory explanations of these ideas according to modern science and trying to introduce concept of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Life is nonchemical and nonphysical. It is spiritual. When we study physics, chemistry and mathematics, we simply study matter, but actually we don't really study life. But modern science says that life is nothing but chemicals. So we are determined to show to the people, especially to the leading scientists, that the knowledge that we have is all wrong. There must be something beyond that we just know so far." Then he started taking great interest, and I talked with him for a little more than an hour. He... And even he was thinking of postponing that... He had a meeting, and he telephoned. He said... He said he started discussing with me, and the talk became so interesting that he postponed the meeting. He even said. (laughs) So he was very nice, actually. He said that he agrees that in the Western..., especially in the United States, the leading scientists are taking too much for granted. They're saying too much, very unscientific, saying that life started from molecules. He said it's all unknown. These are all stories. So he said that it's a little too much. Science doesn't know these things. He agreed to that point very clearly. I said, "Do you think scientists like...? It is your responsibility, especially from this land, to show that the concept..."

Prabhupāda: We know.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then they changed?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Then they became little... They opened up their mouth and then started talking. Then, once they start talking, then we can generate some platform where we can actually discuss. This Amrtabhal Sena is a professor in Bose Institute. Firstof all he asked my qualifications, said what, what do I have. Then I said I studied in the States, and I had this degree, and I was working this line. Actually I told him all the sophisticated experiments that we did when I was studying. And he was very impressed with those ideas or experiments that I did which they don't do here. Then he asked me... First of all he was interested "How you became... How you left those things and become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa?" Then I... At that point I got the opportunity to explain how science is an attempt to see the unknown laws of nature, in other words to find at least the ultimate cause or the Absolute Truth. Vaguely it's an attempt at least amongst those highly thoughtful scientists. They think like that. But we are seeing at this stage of our scientific age that science is not giving those answers. Rather, science is failing. We thought we would do like this, that, and so many experiments and so much knowledge we uncovered, but we do not know anything about life, so there are limitations of this scientific knowledge. So there must be something higher. It cannot be the finishing stage at this moment. So there must be something higher. It cannot be the finishing stage at this moment. So there must be something higher beyond what we know so far. That is why I was interested in knowing more about the principles of life. It cannot be just coming momentarily for some time and staying and getting a family and getting some false prestige. That cannot be the ultimate. There must be something higher. Then he began to understood what I meant and he accepted, "Yes, it's true." That he agreed, "Yes, we are not... The knowledge that we have is not able to give all the answers. In fact, science doesn't know anything about life. But we are leaving this most important knowledge of life and just studying something garbage in the name of scientific knowledge."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) You have fatally...(?)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he became very interested. That's why he took me in an hour. About five minutes he gave me. Then he extended about an hour to a very interesting talk. And he became very impressed with the ideas about Bhagavad-gītā. And Dr. Kunja(?) asked me, "What śloka are you using from Bhagavad-gītā?" Then I was describing about nainaṁ chindanti śāstrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ (BG 2.23). "We're developing that on a scientific language." And he was very impressed with our presentation for the nature of consciousness and quantum physics. So they thought that this is very unique, and they never thought that this could be done. They have great respect for Śrīla Prabhupāda also. Said that they have read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And they actually accepted and developed lot of scientific thoughts, appropriating with our current scientific frame from Bhagavad-gītā. So once they have that feeling developed properly...

Prabhupāda: It will further develop.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.

Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who showed you that area?

Prabhupāda: Mukunda. I asked him that "Find out some upper class...." He found out that 26 Second Avenue. (laughs) I did not know. That's all. Anyone...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Humble beginning.

Prabhupāda: The landlord took advantage. He was receiving rent, eighty-nine rupees or eighty rupees. He charge me 125. And another room, he was getting fifty. So he charged me seventy-five. Little room.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's unknown now.

Prabhupāda: They said he is living privately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why did they depose him?

Prabhupāda: The cause may be many, but we have to see the result. The main cause was that he was appointing his own men in big, big office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same thing as Indira.

Prabhupāda: Nepotism. Indira's plan was next prime minister, Sanjay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Family heritage. I saw one cartoon in the..., in one newspaper. It said... A little conversation between Gandhi, Nehru and Indira. They're speaking with Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Each one of them is discussing how he's gone wrong. Cāṇakya is advising them what they've done wrong. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita is advising each one of them what they did wrong.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a cartoon. I was speaking with Abhirāma today for quite a long time. Now he understands that... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: Hm. A good article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think they gave a very full coverage.

Prabhupāda: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Free of charge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is a good article.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayādvaita: "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on life comes from life at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Sing, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermo-dynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supported the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science. All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: How do you like article?

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?

Page Title:Unknown (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=85, Let=0
No. of Quotes:85