True (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"true"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: true not "true sense of the term" not "not true"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Where is true? You forget at night. Do you remember when you sleep that you have got your wife and you are sleeping on bed? You have gone some three thousand miles away and seeing something else. Do you remember that you have got a place to reside?

Hanumān: No.

Prabhupāda: So this is dream at night. And night dream, what you saw at night, that is now dream. So both of them dream. You are simply visitor. That's all. You are seeing this dream and that dream. You are, you are fact, but what you are seeing, that is dream.

Hanumān: But I have the impression that "This is true, and my dream is not true." What is the dif...?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Everything is untrue. How it is true? If it is true, why you forget at night? Why you forget? If it is true. Do you remember at night?

Hanumān: No, I don't remember.

Prabhupāda: Then? How it is true? As you don't remember the dreams which you saw last night..., That, therefore we say "dream." Similarly this thing, because you forget at night, this is also dream.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Hanumān: On the path?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a process. When the process is complete, then you'll come to the reality. But that is the process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We cannot distinguish now reality and non-reality because the heart is unclean. So we have to cleanse, and then we come to the reality.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For that matter, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one comes to that stage, there is no difference between animate and inanimate. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Highest stage?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Highest stage, everything animate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So a stone... Even a stone has soul.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, yes. Just like this tree. You cut; it does not protest. The consciousness is not developed. That is the... But it has got life. You scientists, you do not believe that stone has also life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they say it's just matter.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): A lot of that fifteen thousand is exempted in some cases, but even then you have to figure out some (indistinct) and remain in the, I mean present yourself in the court in the mood to argue and talk and all that things. So naturally if you don't have even that much, you have to forego (indistinct). What you're saying is hundred percent true. Yes. It's like that.

Prabhupāda: And nowadays bribe also.

Guest: Yeah. This is a must.

Prabhupāda: Fourth-class, śūdra (indistinct), bribe.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): And I don't come here with any expectation, not for liberation or anyone or anything, this or that. I, what I get...

Prabhupāda: If you're getting...

Guest (1): I am liberated that way already. I don't care about the liberation of tomorrow. Yeah, that's true.

Guru dāsa: Yes, I understand. We are in the same boat.

Guest (1): Actually you are much advanced, so it will be very difficult for you to.... I am still at the lower level and struggling against those things.

Guru dāsa: Only advanced because I'm putting more time in. Otherwise, not more advanced.

Guest (1): Yeah. Capacity has improved. Our capacity is still limited. We are still embroiled in the...

Guru dāsa: Advanced means such and such a person has spent so many times in the business house, twenty-five years, he gets a gold watch. The only reason I may be more advanced is 'cause I get peace of mind, too, so I stay longer. (break)

Guest (2): We have got an appointment. We have got.... (break)

Guest (3): ...somewhere. Saturday they close at, by 3 or 3:30 so I want to go before that.

Prabhupāda: So, you can go before 3:30. There is no difficulty (laughter)

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): I'm learning. I'm learning love. It's, Mahārāja..., this Nim Karoli Baba, has told us that love, love of God is the highest.

Prabhupāda: But love, if you have no form where to love? The air?

Guest (1): You love the form, it's true. You have bhakti, you love the form of God.

Prabhupāda: But you said it's formless.

Guest (1): Ah, yes. Well, it's, uh, that, I've read the...

Prabhupāda: How it is? How, if is formless, how you can love, enjoy?

Guest (1): You can't love the formless, it's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fictitious love. Why don't you ask this intelligent question? If you say formless, then where is the love?

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's so nonsense.

Guest (1): Nonsense? Well, perhaps that's true. I don't know...

Guru dāsa: When you remember who you are you serve, and when you forget who you are, you think you're one with God. Just like suppose you sat in Nam Karoli's chair, just forgetting who you are, that his chela, his disciple, I'm Nam Karoli.

Guest (1): Nim Karoli.

Guru dāsa: Nim Karoli. Sorry. Similarly, when we forget who we are, we think we're one with God, but when we remember, we're His bhakta, we're His servant.

Guest (1): Yes, that's also true. It's a fact.

Guru dāsa: When Hanumān, he's a great bhakta. We should follow in his footsteps. "One who says he is My devotee, he is not My devotee. One who says he is a devotee of My devotee, he is My devotee." Very humble. Then we can make advancement (CC Madhya 13.80).

Guest (1): Mahārāja is teaching—you asked his teaching—these things are the same really, I, things that he's told me. But he said that the whole universe was God, and that you should never hurt anyone, that you should serve...

Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): Through ignorance. Men...

Prabhupāda: Then how you love the whole universe, if you are in ignorance?

Guest (1): You do your best.

Prabhupāda: If you are ignorant, you do not know how to love.

Guest (1): That's true, of course. Ignorance is...

Prabhupāda: Then how do you speak of universal love? When you do not know how to love, how do you speak universe, big, big word. You do not know the art of love, and you are speaking universal love.

Guest (1): Well, certainly every...

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. First of all you say that you do not know how to love, and you are speaking of love the universe. It has already...

Guest (1): Certainly each being in the universe is a part of the universe...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot love each being. That is my point.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee: She said that if you love a pure being, then you can love the universe. She stated that if you love a pure being then you can love the universe.

Prabhupāda: Then there is impure being and pure being?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Is it a fact?

Devotee: Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Then as soon as you say pure being, there is impure being.

Guest (1): It seems that way.

Guest (3): The soul isn't impure.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest (3): The soul isn't impure. That's the only reality-purity of the soul.

Guest (1): You love God.

Prabhupāda: Purity of the soul, that means there are impurity of the soul.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): No, it's not beyond Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: If he has read Bhagavad-gītā, that he cannot say, because Kṛṣṇa says brahmaṇo ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā, I am the resort of Brahman. So He is greater than Brahman. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, even Brahman emanates from Me, and actually it is so. Just like the sunshine (indistinct) sun globe. Although the sunshine is universe(?), but still dependent on the sun globe.

Guest (1): Of course that's true. There's nothing beyond Kṛṣṇa, of course.

Prabhupāda: That's good(?).

Devotee: Very nice (indistinct).

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Very good. He's(?) good boy.

Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have a question.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: If unity means to agree in purpose.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Ahaituki. Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-vairāgya, janayaty āśu, ahaituki. Nobody knows how we do.

Dr. Kapoor: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Kapoor: That's true. But the wonder is that it didn't act so far, you see, it didn't act when Bon Mahārāja went up. It didn't act when a proper program, and a number of other people, you see. It has started acting only now, (laughter).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you know what the address of Indore is?

Prabhupāda: What?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Address of Indore? (break)

Dr. Kapoor: (Bengali).... Just that I was saying that we require you see, in this age.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: That means straight. So if you stay at one place that's a different kind of life, you see, it's not so strenuous. You move around from place to place...

Prabhupāda: But I have got sixty-six branches, so if I do not go some time at least, they also become little depressed.

Dr. Kapoor: That is true, but you'll have to find some way out. You have to...

Prabhupāda: I have constituted one governing body as Prabhupāda desired, governing body, but still they are not so experienced. (Hindi)

Dr. Kapoor: (indistinct) You would more usefully because you are (indistinct) to reading and writing (indistinct) than going about.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Kapoor: Have a small center here in Vṛndāvana, and you should make this your permanent place for this.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Kapoor: Would Vṛndāvana not be more suitable.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana is very suitable, but (Hindi—to other guests)

Dr. Kapoor: I am going to inform something. I am pañca-śāstri(?).

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa-līlā is not explained properly by any...

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs!

Dr. Patel: ...other thing than the Vaiṣṇavas. All is wrongly understood by all other fellows excepting Vaiṣṇavas, true Vaiṣṇavas. That Kṛṣṇa, as he was Supersoul...

Prabhupāda: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned these rascal Māyāvādīs: māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. The greatest offender to Kṛṣṇa is these Māyāvādīs. Greatest offenders.

Guest (3): (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: There are so many. Even in...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Even in... I do not wish to say. Even this Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa proprietor, that Goenka.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Goenka.

Prabhupāda: He was doing that. In Calcutta. Govinda Bhavan.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is mūḍha. That is mūḍha.

Dr. Patel: Ah! But some of these boys have been thinking like that.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says Himself that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). He is never this body. He has no distinction between... That has been done, analyzed by Māyāvādī scholar, Dr. Radhakrishnan. When Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, he, he, I mean to say, warns, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." That means he is making distinction between Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's inside. So he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and he's writing comment on Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. It's going on. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Yaśomatīnandana: Actually, this is so true, Prabhupāda, because even in the western world, they are Christians. They may be fallen Christians, but they don't think they are Christ. They may be fallen. They may not follow the principles...

Prabhupāda: They say "Christ is God."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they also make mistakes.

Prabhupāda: They also make that mistake.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: It's true. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, they are little animals with four hand, two legs, two hand, hand animals. That's all. Yes. Rejected them. Vedic civilization rejected them, mlecchas and yavanas. But they can be reformed. The process is the same. Not that because they are rejected, they cannot be reclaimed. They can be reclaimed also. Just like you are being done. Although you are coming from the mlecchas and yavanas, by training, you are becoming more than a brāhmaṇa. So there is no bar for them. Unfortunately, these rascals do not agree to accept. As soon as you say, "No more illicit sex," oh, they become angry. As soon as I say, "There is no meat-eating," they become angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). The rascals, fools, if you give them good lessons, education, they will be angry. Prakopayati na śamayati. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānām (?). The snake, if you give him nice milk and banana, the result will be he will increase his poison. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, they are being now trained up. Now you be trained up and revise the whole edition of the western civilization, especially in America. Then a new chapter will come in. This is the program. Therefore varṇāśrama school required.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, in this varṇāśrama college, is it true that there will be no need, for example, for teaching material history and mathematics and...?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. History, we simply read Mahābhārata, history of the great men, Pāṇḍavas, how they were fighting for the good cause, how they were reigning. That history. Not this rascal history. If you study that history millions of years, what is that history and what you'll learn from that history? You learn history of the really great men, how they worked, how they ruled. That is a... You study history of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.

Hṛdayānanda: Mahābhārata.

Prabhupāda: Study the history of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is required. Not that simply chronological record, all nonsense, and big, big books, and making research. Why should you waste your time in that way?

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guest: Well he said, "You study Buddha philosophy to arrive at principles of truth," but what Buddha said...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Buddha philosophy...

Guest: What Buddha said was, he says, "Don't accept anything because I tell it to you. Don't accept anything because it's been believed for a long time by many people in many different places." He says, "Only believe that which you find true for yourself, and that is for your own good and for the good of others."

Prabhupāda: But these are teachings of Buddha.

Guest: Huh, but...

Prabhupāda: But...

Guest: But he's pointing at how to arrive at principles of truth. This, this is, uh, more uh, of an independent approach. He's not uh, I don't think he was trying to cheat anybody but he was trying to...

Prabhupāda: Not that. Cheating this sense, sometimes just so you, I cheat my child. The father is not cheater, but sometimes it is required.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): Suppose somebody insults a God-minded person, and the God-minded person thinks, "Well, he's not insul..., he's insulting this body, and not the living entity in me." That means he has lost the body consciousness. Suppose if beats with a stick, and he goes...

Prabhupāda: No, no. That, that is ignorance. I have already explained.

Guest (1): But I feel it is not ignorance...

Prabhupāda: Ignorance...

Guest (1): It is, if he feels in the true sense...

Prabhupāda: No, my point is, either you are in ignorance or in knowledge, you are individual. (break) ...have to, so why so long?

Guest (1): Yes, here, here is... We have to walk quickly there.

Dr. Patel: But we thought you would come late, so we went there.

Guest (1): So you have lost some... (break)

Guest (2) (Indian man): ...paripraśnena sevayā... (break)

Prabhupāda: Either you are in ignorance or in knowledge, both cases you are individual.

Guest (1): In knowledge also we are individual?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Sarvan sevya.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The maidservant, she changed her own son and kept the real royal family, defended him. Her child was killed.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is it a true story?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? (break) ...and maternal uncle of Rāvaṇa.

Yaśomatīnandana: Did Kaṁsa also achieve the grace? He was immediately transferred to the spiritual planets after he was killed?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Girirāja: ...being killed by Viṣṇu in his previous life he wasn't transferred?

Prabhupāda: No, three times he had to take birth. Hiraṇyākṣa.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is that Jaya and Vijaya?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (1): But it should be proved.

Prabhupāda: It is true because it is spoken by Vyāsadeva. How you say it is false? You cannot say that. That is blasphemy.

Indian man (1): In olden days there used to be the ghosts and all these things, but now that is gradually...

Prabhupāda: But gradually... That does not mean you have improved very much. Because you do not believe in the ghost...

Indian man (1): Our mental condition has improved.

Prabhupāda: No, that does not mean... There are ghosts. Ghost means subtle life. It is not gross. So people know and has got some idea of the ghost, but they have no descriptive idea. Here is a descriptive idea. That is śāstra. Just like less than the śūdras, it is called pañcamas. How many pañcamas are there, that is described in the Bhāgavata. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). That is śāstra. Gives full explanation, full knowledge. Śāstra cakṣuṣā. We have to accept through the śāstra. Not that "Because I have not seen, therefore it is false." No. Vyāsadeva has no business to tell you something false. Otherwise he would not have been accepted as the supreme guru by all the sampradāyas. You cannot defy Vyāsadeva. He is saying, you have to accept. "I have seen. I have no experience," that doesn't matter. So many things you do not know. Just like a child has no experience what is the other side of the sea. Does it mean that there is nothing? A child may say like that, but a person who has visited the Arabian countries and others, "Oh no, no, no. There are so many things." So experience should be taken from a person who has got real experience. Not that "Because I cannot see, it is void." That is not experience.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: Hm, not bad. Because actuality has to do with effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The actuality is immortal. He never takes birth...

O'Grady: Never takes bath?

Yogeśvara: Birth.

O'Grady: Oh, never takes birth, true. But immortality, I mean, actuality, of course, has to do with the actuality of the situation that we have right now, with you sitting there and we, as friends, sitting with you and engaging in gentle conversation.

Prabhupāda: Actually... Just like you are sitting in a different dress; I am sitting in a different dress. So the dress does not affect our actuality. We are human being. Similarly, the conception of body—"I am Irishman, I am Englishman, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian,"—these are different dresses. So one has to become free from these designations.

O'Grady: Accepted.

Prabhupāda: So when one is free from the designations, then he becomes purified.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: True well-wisher.

O'Grady: There's no question of being half-real friend or unreal friend. A friend is a friend.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the best friend is the spiritual master because he saves from the blazing fire of confusion. That is best friend.

O'Grady: The problem is to find this friend. The problem is to find this spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no problem. The problem is if you are sincere. Yes. That is stated. Because actually you have got problems, but God is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). God is not far away. God is within your heart. So if you are sincere, then God will give you spiritual master. If He knows that now you are sincere, then He will give you a spiritual master.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, I don't know whether these accusations have been proved in regards to Nixon. They may be true.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I think they have. What are the charges against Nixon?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Certainly he already... It all depends on the standards that we want to have for a president. In other words, he has not been convicted, but he has accepted, himself, certain charges, that he has lied and he has tried to save his men, and therefore he has lied, and he has evaded taxes.

Richard Webster: Well, I don't know about that, you see. I'm only...

Prabhupāda: No, there have been so many charges against president Nixon. So no, whatever it may be, we are not concerned. But this is the Vedic principle, that the king or the executive head of the state, the brāhmaṇa and the public leader must be very clean. Otherwise society will be spoiled. That is the injunction.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Thank you. It will be a source also for unprofessionals, also to give true interpretation yes, by devotees.

Prabhupāda: The trades manager of Messrs. MacMillan Company, he has reported that this book is selling increasing, and other editions, they are decreasing.

Monsignor Verrozano: A great sign of interest.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Thank you. Well, may we be united in hopes and prayer and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, kindly pray to God.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Thank you for your kindness, for coming, and if sometimes you come to Rome, don't forget this. This is a very difficult place to find out. Now you know it. You have been here. With Monsignor Verrozano. That's nice. I will leave now for Africa, Bamako, Mali, for a meeting with Moslems. Bamako, be there for a few days, Bamako, Freetown, Bathurst, Conakry these cities of West Africa, French-speaking Africa.

Dhanañjaya: Some of our devotees are going to Lagos.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Ah, Lagos. Ah yeah. You are going, also you?

Dhanañjaya: No, not me. My godbrothers...

Cardinal Pignedoli: I have been there for three years, in Lagos, a big city. The majority are Moslems, sixty percent. And others are Christians or local religions. They are deeply religious people in Nigeria. Deeply religious. All believers, they say. Thank you. I am so happy. (end)

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: When you say equal shares, in certain things like food, I think that would probably be true of the general approach of...

Prabhupāda: I am not speaking of the food. I am speaking of the benefit. Benefit should be equally shared. Now, benefit means... Suppose you can eat more than me. You can eat, say, half a pound of foodstuff, or I can eat one pound, foodstuff. So to give me food, one pound, and to give you food, half pound, that is equal because I require so much. Similarly, the benefit must be equal, as far as you require, I require. Therefore we call it benefit. There is not, I mean to say discrimination in deriving the benefit out of the energy produced in the body. Then everything will be all right. And if the brain works nicely, if the arms work nicely, if the stomach works nicely and the legs work nicely, then you are healthy body. You can do everything very nicely.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: You understand that?

C. Hennis: Yes. Well, of course it's only by a long term of general program of cultural improvement that you can hope to overcome that kind of problem. On the other hand, it would be, I think, wrong to argue from that experience that the provision of welfare benefits to all people who are destitute should be stopped, you see. It is true that...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to say that.

C. Hennis: It's true these are abused, but the fact that a good thing is abused doesn't turn it into a bad thing.

Prabhupāda: No that is not the point. Point is that everyone should be guided by the brain. Therefore the brain must be maintained. That is our point.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Well, that's no doubt the rationale that they use.

Prabhupāda: I understand your point. That we also say, that any living entity has to live by eating another living entity. That is natural. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. It is said in the Vedic literature that one living entity is the food for another living entity.

C. Hennis: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: That's true. That's true.

Prabhupāda: That is my point.

C. Hennis: That's true. They're servants of the membership and the membership is the international..., of the states, of the world. And if the governments of the states of the world, if Mr. Giscard d'Estaing, Mr. Nixon and Mr. Wilson and all the others don't have brain, then I'm afraid that the United Nations can do nothing to give them brains. There has to be... We are only the servants of these people. What we try and do is let them get together and help them understand their problems.

Prabhupāda: Let them understand. At least, let them understand what they should do, what they should not do. This much...

C. Hennis: This we do try to do to the extent that it is possible for the secretariat to shape and evolve a philosophy. We do try to do it. But of course we can't adopt a completely radical approach. We do what we can in the manner of a good servant and the manner of a good steward to try and help the leaders along the right path and right direction. Your Divine Grace, I thank you very much indeed for this audience. It's been very kind of you.

Prabhupāda: I may be a madman. I have talked so many things and you say all right.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (Mr. Hennis goes out)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's true what you say Prabhupāda. They come and they put forward their idea and if you don't like it, well, "Oh!" but if you like, "Oh, very good man." They have their own ideas.

Prabhupāda: What, his nonsense idea. From the result we see nobody is happy. What is this idea? They have big, big scientists, big, big politicians, big, big..., but where is it people are happy? They are simply fighting. Now, recently in Rome, Italy, the Communists and the Fascists fought, and six innocent person died. So where is the benefit of this United Nations? They do not have really brain. Manufacturing something, concocting something. That's all. Where is the brain? They have no discrimination between sinful activities and pious activities.

Yogeśvara: He admitted it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any sane man will admit it. Cow is giving milk-mother. And bull is producing food—he is father. And they are being killed? Is that human society? How they can be happy? There is no possibility. Regularly they are maintaining slaughterhouse especially for the cows and bulls. Why don't you slaughter the dogs and hogs and eat if you are meat-eater? There are many meat-eaters who eat dogs. Dog is useless. You can eat. Hog is also useless. They are eating also dog and hog, everything, whatever they...

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Kapila, this Kapila is atheist Kapila. He's a different Kapila. Original Kapila is the son of Devahūti, son of Kardama Muni and Devahūti. That is described in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, God. Kapila. And actually, he enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy. And this sāṅkhya philosophy which is known in Europe amongst the European scholars, that is the atheist Kapila. It is not the original Kapila.

Prof. Regamay: So that's not a true Kapila.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Regamay: And Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra. Read, read that chapter.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

M. Roche-dieu: Yes, but true knowledge is, we think, love.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you do not know what is love. You love somebody and you kill others.

M. Roche-dieu: No, no.

Prabhupāda: That is not love. If you love God, then you will love all His sons.

Yogeśvara: Here's that verse.

Prabhupāda: Here is the verse.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And the bodies were already dead. And there were certain people that they knew their bodies, his fiance or his sister. They agreed that if they were going to eat the bodies they would eat them last. It's true. It was in the story. One man, he had his prospective wife. One man had his sister or sister-in-law, cousin. They said, "If we're going to eat the bodies, then we'll eat them the last." So they had a sense that this body is more important than that body, like that.

Prabhupāda: No, in last war they ate stool also.

Yogeśvara: Concentration camps.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Really? What is the Vaiṣṇava point of view?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is a Vaiṣṇava, is he willing to maintain his body for the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa even if he has to break regulative principles—if it is necessary?

Prabhupāda: If it is necessary.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: "And to try and work and find out the true path."

Robert Gouiran: I try to work this intuition, to make it stronger, in order to feel where I have to go and to participate...

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty...? What is the difficulty in the position you are now, at present?

Robert Gouiran: Good question. The difficulty is that I lost the thought of this transparency by a lot of criss-crossed swords which make a sort of block, and I have very, very strong difficulties now here to feel intuitively the occult plane. And I am back in the reality...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Coming back now into the West, he feels so much difficulty to still be sensitive, to have this intuition of the spiritual plane.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He says that there are like criss-crosses, like swords blocking...

Prabhupāda: So one thing is that he's feeling difficulty in the material atmosphere of the West. Is it the fact?

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: ...who wrote a book called "Brave New Worlds", and in that book, he predicted something that's coming true now, that there would be a process of biologically screening babies so that men could be breeded like animals, like they breed animals. So they would take one strain of chromosomes and breed a class of men who would make perfect administrators, and then they would breed another class of men that would be perfect śūdras, and they would breed another class of men who would be perfect scientists.

Prabhupāda: And that is already there. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The, the, in Vedic astrology, jāta-karma, they will say that "This child is a śūdra, this child is a brāhmaṇa, this child is a kṣatriya." By the birth, by the constellation of the stars, it will be done. It is already being done. And in the medical laboratory, the blood has been tested, brāhmaṇa, śūdra, vaiśya, there is different blood. Yes. The blood infusion. So if the, a different blood is infused, it does not act. So one doctor, in India, he was permanently keeping different bloods for different persons. So there is some meaning in the caste system. But that is not... In a brāhmaṇa family, a śūdra may also take birth. Śūdra blood. So to keep the blood brahminical, therefore the reformatory system is there, garbhādhāna-saṁskāra and all the saṁskāras. Before birth, they keep, to keep the blood brahminical, there is ceremony.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: The point is that supposing this twenty to thirty-six years is nice age... For women. But before twenty years, she is sacked, and her health is broken. What she'll produce, children? Because this is... The girls, from twelve years, thirteen years, nowadays, they begin sex.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That's true.

Prabhupāda: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From śāstra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then take this name. (laughter) If you have no name, then take this name. Where is the harm? And they are taking Hare Kṛṣṇa, what is the harm? Every religion believes..., not believes; it is fact that there is God. Or any religion will deny the existence of God, is there any religion? I don't think. Is there any religion?

Bhagavān: Buddhist religion?

Priest: But you know, it's true, but you have got so many idea of God according to your own spiritual temperament.

Prabhupāda: No, God is one. There cannot be many ideas of God. That is not possible.

Priest: You have got many idea of God.

Prabhupāda: No, many ideas, that means he does not know what is God.

Priest: Because anyhow, when we say "God," we have to put into words, intellectual words, what is an experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: I know, but for a European to dress as an Indian...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Europeans go to India, and why the Indians should not come to Europe?

Priest: True.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that "Why you have come here?" You cannot say.

Jyotirmayī: No, no. He's saying why are we dressing like that, like Indians?

Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?

Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. These electors are animals, and they elect animals. Just like Nixon. A big animal, and he was elected by other animals. And now there is struggle. (makes barking sound:) "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" (laughter.) That's all. Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's a big dog, and the small dogs, they elected him. And now there is some trouble, and "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He was praised by some animals. He's an animal, big animal, and he was praised by... That is stated here, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called leaders, they are animals, and they are praised by other animals. That's all. Small animals. This is the civilization. How he is animal? Now na yat-karṇa..., karṇa-pathet, upeta...?

Nitāi: Upetaḥ.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: He said and then Gandhi gave another interpretation that was...

Karandhara: Amongst the scholars and the true Vedic authorities in India, they don't accept Ramakrishna at all. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: It is difficult word to translate in English. He says at his time, Ramakrishna's was the expression of the mass of the people.

Prabhupāda: No.

Karandhara: What mass?

Prabhupāda: That is false.

Karandhara: Ramakrishna's popular in the West because of his skillful propaganda... (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that "Well, in a sense, we have to accept that Ramakrishna was expressing the sentiments of the public because he lived amongst the public."

Prabhupāda: No, that is his false understanding.

Karandhara: Still, that doesn't make it valid. Hitler, Hitler lived amongst the public too. And he was a...

Prabhupāda: No, I'll give you example that mass of people in Jagannātha Purī, in Vṛndāvana, many thousands, ten thousands, twenty thousands people, every day come, to worship Jagannātha, to worship Kṛṣṇa, but there is a Ramakrishna temple in Belurmath, or somewhere else—nobody goes. So how do you say the mass of people are attracted to Ramakrishna? And similarly, recently, our foreign students went to Vṛndāvana, went to Navadvīpa, by thousands, but nobody goes to Ramakrishna Mission temple.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, people change according to the time, circumstances, they change. Their opinion has no value. We don't give any value to the people's opinion. We give value to the Supreme Being's opinion. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that that's dangerous because then we run the risk of having people who say, "Well, I represent the word of God. I can give you the true interpretation of the word of God, and they're actually only interested personal, private interests..."

Prabhupāda: No, if... If people... Not all. If there is actually opinion of God, if one man says the same opinion, then how others can say that "You all not giving God's opinion." God said, Kṛṣṇa said, that "You surrender to Me," and if I say that "You surrender to God," then how I am deviating from God's instruction? (French)

Yogeśvara: In other words, what you're saying is that, in essence we must stick to the words of God without interpreting." (aside:) Is that what he said?

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it. That we want.

Bhagavān: (to translators:) You should repeat your point that you make sure he understands. (French)

Prabhupāda: If you interpret, then the God's authority is denied. (French)

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: So then the... If the Vaiṣṇava philosophy has a systematic logic, then integrity would dictate that we have to surrender or accept that logic. If a logic is true, we can't stand apart from it and simply observe it. We have to accept it ourselves.

Church Representative: (French)

Bhagavān: You are right on the brink of Absolute Truth. Don't run away. (laughs)

Yogeśvara: He says that even though he has a great interest in this discussion, because he has prior commitments, he's unable to stay.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all...

Bhagavān: Take some prasādam. (French)

Yogeśvara: He already has the books.

Prabhupāda: He has our...? He has got...? (French) That's all right. He has got.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Analogy is, means where there is no spiritual sensation, that is matter. (French)

Karandhara: It's just merely meant to be an illustration, not that you're supposed to compare everything all the way around. The body is also material; the nail is also material. The point is that that which is not sensed spiritually by the true identity of the soul, that which is experienced outwardly by the material body and the senses, that is matter. But the basic element, or the basic consciousness is spiritual, and that's eternal. Whereas the sensation from outward, like what I see today and taste today, that is temporary, but the taster, the seer, he is eternal, the self. (French)

Prabhupāda: As soon as that spirit soul will be off from this body, this part of the body also will be without any sensation. Therefore the distinction of sensation and no sensation is due to the presence of the spirit soul.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is nonsense. (chuckles) What is this nonsense? Goal is without goal. Then what is this? These are vague terms.

Karandhara: It's like saying nothing is true, but then that's a truism.

Prabhupāda: It is darkness.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They want to become minus.

Prabhupāda: But he is plus always. (French) No, if you have no goal... There is example: "Man without any aim is ship without any rudder." What is called? So suppose if the ship goes... (others are talking at the same time) Aeroplane is going with a aim to land in some country, but if he goes on simply without any aim, then there will be disaster.

Karandhara: Well, they have an aim. But the aim is... Because they haven't...

Prabhupāda: That you say they have got; he does not say. You say.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The democracy also is described. In Kali-yuga.

Satsvarūpa: Eleventh Canto?

Prabhupāda: In Twelfth Canto. (break) ...it is stated.

tasmāt kṣudra-dṛśo martyāḥ

kṣudra-bhāgyā mahāśanāḥ

kāmino vitta-hīnāś ca

svairiṇyaś ca striyo 'satīḥ

"Gradually people will become dwarf, will die very soon, mostly unfortunate, eating too much, and very much sexually agitated, no money, and independent, and the women, all unchaste." Just see. Everything's coming true. Rājan,

rājānaś ca prajā-bhakṣāḥ

śiśnodara-parā dvijāḥ

dasyūtkṛṣṭā janapadā

vedāḥ pāṣaṇḍa-dūṣitāḥ

"The cities will be full of rogues and thieves." Just see.

Yogeśvara: That's Paris.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. In Calcutta it was dangerous to go out because the next... You do not know whether you'll come back. People are so afraid. He's going to work in the office. It will be God's grace if he returns back. It is such a city. Actually so happened. We were sitting, I was at that time in a... I was guest in our life member's. Sitting in morning, afternoon, o'clock (?). "Oh, that gentleman is killed." He was very important businessman. He went to the temple, a Marwari, and on his coming back, he was killed from the backside. Life is still so, but it is little diminished. (break) ...about so-called saintly persons, they are: tapasvino grāma-vāsāḥ. "The so-called yogis, they'll live in the town." Actually, the yogis have no business in the town. They should go to a secluded place. But they will live in... Just like the other... He's living in Paris City, and he's a yogi.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: Yes. Well, but this in one form or another is the aim of any true tradition.

Prabhupāda: True?

Guest: Tradition, religion.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest: Every teaching.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) tradition, they are all material. They are also designation. I'm thinking I am Hindu, you are thinking Christian, he is thinking this, these are all designation.

Guest: Within each of these there is the esoteric.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.

Guest: Whatever it is...

Prabhupāda: It is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all these types of false religions." Mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, anyone. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's in trouble. (indistinct) And our difficulty is that when we want to convince a person on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan. I am trying to proselytize, that is (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: They go and stand at the zoo to see an animal. Yes, It's true. And I have just now in my center the visit of six Americans from Chicago who have their psychological center, and they wanted to know what we do, and they told me. They have a special little area where children are taken to see one cow, you see, or one horse just to know what it is because they never see it, never see an animal.

Prabhupāda: Most unnatural life. City life, most unnatural.

Professor Durckheim: Oh, there are many children, they have never seen a tree. (break) ...sleeping only very few hours.

Prabhupāda: Not very few hours. Say, four, five hours altogether. Altogether. Maximum five, minimum four.

Professor Durckheim: All the night or do you at the day sometimes?

Prabhupāda: No. At night I get up at one, at half past one, sometimes half past twelve. But I take a little rest, one or two hour in the daytime. So two hours at night, two hours at day, or three hours at night, two hours in day. In this way, altogether five hours, not more than that. Our predecessor gurus, Gosvāmīs, they were taking rest not more than two hours or 2-1/2 hours. So we should come to that standard, yes. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About them this description is: they reduced their sleeping, nidra. Nidra means sleeping. And āhāra. Āhāra means eating and collection. Collection is also āhāra. Yes. So they were mendicant. They had no collection. And they had no preaching mission. They were simply writing books. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, very expert to study different scriptures just to get the essence of scripture and give to the people. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. So their life was engaged for the benefit of the whole human society. What these people are talking philanthropy and humanitarian? They dedicated their life for... Just like we are doing. It is not for any sect or any person. For the whole human society. So that should be the mission. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore their literature is honored all over the world, all over the universe.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Yes, I noticed.

Prabhupāda: Because they are receptive. And their intelligence is intact. Old man takes time.

Reverend Powell: (laughs) Yes, well, that's very true, sir. Your Grace, what's the parable of the talents, that some were given a few, and some were...

Prabhupāda: Now, the talents are described. Find that Eighteenth Chapter, śamo damas titikṣā. Then...

Reverend Powell: What I'd like (break) I'd like to hear this, but...

Prabhupāda: Talents are divided into three categories: the brāhmaṇa category, and the kṣatriya category, the vaiśya category and the śūdra category. They are described here.

Reverend Powell: And this...

Prabhupāda: What are the qualifications of a brāhmaṇa. Symptoms.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, there are many swamis and gurus and religious people throughout the world. How does one know which is the true guru?

Prabhupāda: One who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all.

Guest (4): What is the test of a true guru?

Prabhupāda: He will describe about Kṛṣṇa. He will ask you to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. His business is to propagate Kṛṣṇa. That is the symptom of guru.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we don't know what Kṛṣṇa is and we still get a bona fide spiritual master, then how do we call that? Our good fortune?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Caitanya... Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva. Kona, some fortunate person, not all.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hm? "You?"

Guest (2): "You will see the whole of creation (sic:) withinside Me and withinside yourself." Is that a true translation?

Prabhupāda: Where it is? Cāru?

Devotee Cāru?: "You will see all beings in Me and Me in all beings."

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Does it mean all beings in Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (2): The translation that I read also said, "Withinside yourself."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, He, as Paramātmā, is everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). But that does not mean everyone is Kṛṣṇa. You are in this room. That does not mean you are room.

Guest (2): So we are in God, and God is in us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without God we have no existence.

Satsvarūpa: "A true yogi observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized man sees Me everywhere." That's different.

Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, do you think that every human being will become liberated?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Aiye.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bishop Kelly: Yes, well, I accept that every man must open himself out to God. And as we say, well, God speaks to the open mind of a generous man and the open recesses of his own heart through His grace. But surely outside of man... See, my difficulty is, you know, that God can speak to me... Let us put it this way. Some God-fearing people and God-dedicated people have done some very strange things. Now, my (indistinct) is, if God speaks to me in the innermost recesses of my heart and He tells me on a certain matter to do this, and He speaks to somebody over here on the same matter, and He tells him to do something different, so straightaway I must ask the question. There must be some way, independent from me and from my fellow man, in which God can make His will known, can reveal Himself in so far to guarantee that I am not merely taking a subjective interpretation of what God is making known to me, and I end up with not really a valid alternative, but I may end up with an opposition or a contradiction. And my big fear there is, if it is a contradiction, well, somebody is going to lose out. Now I wouldn't be quite sure whether it was to be myself or the other person. But if that is so... So I always feel... The Christian religion, of course, feels it very keenly that it is true that God moves the individual soul in a way that is particular to each soul, his own action—we call it His action of grace which is an offering of God's guidance and God's truth, God's riches or God's life—but over and above the individual movements by which he touches and uplifts and enables the individual person, to His outside of that, something which we would say, relatively speaking, in which He is objective, in which God makes known His will as a whole plane and philosophy of life. Now, in the Hare Kṛṣṇa would you have something of that equivalent? You would have sacred writings. I know that. But would you have anything that would sort of correspond to a living interpretive voice or a living interpretation of the will of God irrespective of what God says to me as an individual in the recesses of my heart and soul. I don't know whether I spoke too much there or whether I am clear.

Prabhupāda: I don't think there is individual instruction. There is individual instruction, but that is subordinate. The general instruction is that one should be fully surrendered to God. That is general instruction. Now, if one is fully surrendered, then in a particular case and particular circumstances, God gives him instruction what to do. So because in this material world, circumstances are different, so that is not very extraordinary. According to circumstances, he gives him. But general instruction is there, and they are recorded in the scripture. That general instruction must be followed, that one cannot say that "God is dictating through me something to do even against the general instruction." That is not possible. That is not possible. The general instruction must be followed.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: One who is following the general instruction, then you can understand that he has actually fully surrendered to God. Then in particular case, if he is required to be given a particular instruction, that is different thing. That is also possible. But how one is God conscious, that is understood that how he is strictly following the general instruction. And otherwise it will be escaping. Somebody will say, "God is dictating me in this way, so I can do this." (chuckles) Then everyone can say like that.

Bishop Kelly: That is true. That is true... Do you wish me to take this away or should I look at it here?

Satsvarūpa: May he keep the book or...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the only one sample I have got. But as soon as we get more copies, we shall be very glad.

Bishop Kelly: I will return your glasses. (laughter) I hope mine are outside.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bishop Kelly: So I am very pleased to have had the opportunity of meeting with you, your grace.

Prabhupāda: So I am also that your holiness has come.

Bishop Kelly: I hope that in some real way that the cause of God will be served the better for this meeting. I do wish you Godspeed in your work, and in that, of course...

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are trying our bit to educate people how to revive his original God consciousness. Then he will be happy. Our principle is how to make people happy. There is a verse about the gosvāmīs. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. This word is very important, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau: "for the welfare of the people in general." People accuse sometimes—of course, foolish people do that—that these God conscious person they are escaping. No. Who are actually God conscious person is always thinking how to do well to the people in general. Yes. Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Give it to him. You can take.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga." "So, how long can you remain? At night?" "Yes. No, I can remain the whole night or as long as you..." "All right, if you remain within severe cold, within water, overnight, then I shall give you such and such presentation." So he agreed, and he did it. And in the morning, when the man came, so he said, "Oh, you are successful." Then he did not... Either he had no money or he did not want to give. So he had his one advisor, "So what shall I do?" "No, no sir, you cannot give money." "Why?" "Now, there was heat." "So how there was heat?" You know, in India they give ākāśa-pradīpa? During Kārttika month they... This is our Vaiṣṇava principle, I think. The lamp is there on the head of the roof. On the roof there is a bamboo, and in the top of the bamboo there is light. So this man was in the lake. And his advisor said, "You have seen that the lamp was there, and heat was coming." (laughing) That lamp was three miles away and still, he advised, "Yes, there was heat. Therefore he could tolerate." So what can be said? He is poor man. So there was another servant of that big man. So he appealed to him that "See, I took so much trouble and he did not pay me anything." "So don't worry. I shall see that you are paid." What is that? Some presentation?

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Cāru:

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

"The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater."

Prabhupāda: Because our vision is from the standard of the soul. The soul is there in elephant as well as in the learned scientist. So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), means a learned, advanced, spiritualist, he sees that everyone is soul. The body, material body, is dress. Just like we are talking with Dr. such and such, not with the dress. We are not interested with the dress, but we are interested with you, person. Similarly, these bodies are dresses, different dresses, according to the price he has paid. According to his work, nature gives him. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Teletype, yes. You push here "a" and the other end the "a" will immediately strike. There is no need of another person typing. But how it is being done? There is electronic arrangement by higher scientist. Not that, ordinary typewriter will not, no. Suppose if you keep one typewriter at your brother's place and you push it here, will it strike there? (laughter) Why? Because there is no arrangement. There is no arrangement. So these are common sense but the rascals will not understand. That without a touch of the living entity nothing can be done. The supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "I am the cause of the material energy working." Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. There is parasya śaktiḥ, now who can explain how this flower has come into existence? That is same thing. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California. One big chemist he came there to lecture the chemical evolution, by mixing of chemical life has come into existence. So there was one student, he is my disciple, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he said that (break) ...first-class cheater, that's all, mūḍhā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (indistinct) ...people are suffering for want of this knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are trying to bring people in true platform of knowledge, not to increase death like these rascals and fools. That is our proposal.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to keep the original teaching in perfect order, without any interpretation.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He thanks you very much for explaining so many things.

Prabhupāda: So our request is to study this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and try to help it.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): You have given the example that one has to give up certain habits such as one should not smoke and things, but is it true that that is not the ultimate goal of transcendence?

Prabhupāda: No, that is a process.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Can someone outside, who does not follow these practices, can he achieve perfection?

Prabhupāda: Maybe, but that is exceptional.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said that Buddha achieved perfection outside of joining any particular religion, and that after reading so many things and hearing all different philosophies that it was actually the practice.

Prabhupāda: He changed himself religion.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he has no objection philosophically to this position, and he understands our example very well.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not... Philosophy, of course... Philosophy is the science of science. This is scientifically true that we are not this body.

Hṛdayānanda: So I'll tell you what else he said. He said that even though we may not be this body, even though we should be looking for God, still, for example, he, as a doctor, if a patient comes to him and has, for example, say, some disease, he can, within twenty-four hours, cure the disease and stop the person's suffering. And he feels that even though he may be looking for God, that does not mean that he should let someone go on suffering if he can very easily stop it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not I am talking of God. I am talking of the constitutional position of the living being. That is science. So just like the same example: the driver is different from the car, but when there is some defect in the car, we are not advising that don't take care of the car. But if you simply take care of the car and don't take care of the driver, that is the basic mistake of the civilization.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: But that is sinful.

Guest (1): That's true. But this is also true that ninety-nine percent people when they indulge in it...

Prabhupāda: Ninety-nine percent may be all rascals and fools, that is not true.

Guest (1): For the common, I think masses, some practical means are needed rather than...

Prabhupāda: Practical is that our śāstra says that pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The idea is that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they know how to make his child immortal. Because soul is immortal but he is entangled in this material body, therefore death takes place. Actually soul is not born, na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this process is going on, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The father and mother should be so enlightened and educate the son in such a way that this is the last acceptance of material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he may not accept again this material body. If the father and mother is determined in that way, then they should become parents, otherwise no.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Female Reporter: Swami, I saw a television program about your movement once, and they said that the men make the decisions and the women follow. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: I do not follow.

Śrutakīrti: She hears that the men make the decisions and that the women follow these decisions.

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. We follow the decision of Kṛṣṇa, men and women both. We follow the decision of Kṛṣṇa. That is applicable both men and women.

Reporter: Are men superior in your movement, though?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Reporter: Are men regarded as superior to women?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by elderly sons. That is natural.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: Well, this in one form or another is the aim of any true tradition.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? True?

Ambassador: Tradition.

Prabhupāda: Tradition?

Ambassador: Religion.

Prabhupāda: No. Tradition, religion, they are all material. They are also all designation. I am thinking I am Hindu, you are thinking you are Christian, he is thinking as Buddhist—these are all designation.

Ambassador: Within each of these there is the esoteric.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all this type of false religion." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, only one. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is in trouble of this material condition. And our difficulty is that when we want to convince another person about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that "I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan, so they are trying to proselytize me." That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So why they are disobeying the order of Muhammad?

Yoga student: Yes. The... They follow... It's essentially the same practice as the...

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot amend on the words of Muhammad if you are a true Mussulman.

Yoga student: I don't think they have to amend it. They're...

Prabhupāda: Why? There was five. Why they have made three? That is amendment. You cannot do that.

Yoga student: It has been maintained that Ali..., that this was the practice of Ali.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yoga student: That Ali prayed at noon, in the afternoon...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Ali, the representative of Muhammad.

Yoga student: He's the brother-in-law..., the son-in-law... Hazrad(?) Ali.

Prabhupāda: Ali, Ali. Ali Hussein. No.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man: What is the Kṛṣṇa conscious outlook on other world religions?

Prabhupāda: They have got simply an idea that there is God, but what is that God, they have no clear conception. Just like I asked, "What is the conception of God in Islam?" You could not give us. You simply described some of His activities.

Young man: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young man: All the religions that have been taught to me have not given me a clear view of God, a clear concept. They didn't seem to know it themself.

Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So He is the father of all species of life, origin. Actually every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is not for a particular person. For everyone. Yes?

Ānanda-mārga woman: When you asked what is the true form of God, I've seen the true form of God in myself. It's the purest life, it's the life I cannot reach through my mind. And nobody has experienced in material world. I have listened to it. It is a beautiful sound, the celestial music. And you cannot reach it through material world. I've tasted it as the purest water, and it's always inside me. And you can get it in the spring water even. And it is something I cannot reach through my mind because it is beyond my mind. I can reach by surrendering myself, by being a devotee. And I have experienced the true form of God.

Prabhupāda: No, what is that form?

Ānanda-mārga woman: It's the purest light. It's the magnificent light. I have listened to it. It's the music. And I have tasted it.

Prabhupāda: No, if you have realized God, you must know what is His form. You must explain.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No?

Ānanda-mārga woman: Whenever I realize God I receive it through my mind and not perfect. But if I meditate and surrender, then there is no distance between me and God. I reach God and I become one with God. And that's the only time I can call everything true meditation. And that's the only time I experience this life in me. And I cannot talk about it as "me and God" because it was the same as God, because I became one with God. And there was no distance really.

Prabhupāda: Then you are God?

Ānanda-mārga woman: I am not God. I am just... I truly experience this God through me all the time.

Prabhupāda: You say that you and God, one, and again you say that you are not...

Ānanda-mārga woman: If I meditate, then I become surrendered to God. And I'm trying to do that by trying to take this distance away.

Prabhupāda: That means when you surrender to God, then you become God, that you are surrendered God, and He is the person to be surrendered. There are two Gods, why not? You say, "I surrender to God."

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Then who will realize? You are different to realize. You say the God is within you. Therefore God is different from you, but He is within you. You require to realize. Therefore you are different from God. Otherwise there is no question of realization.

Ānanda-mārga woman: You see. What I have experienced, I believe it's my home. I believe it's where I have come from, because it is beyond whatever I have experienced in this worldly life. And so I see that I have a different shape. I have a body and I have a mind which distract me from my true nature, which is God, which is godly and which is beautiful, which is light. But when I surrender myself I become one with it again, I go back home. It is like taking a trip, you know. And you always want to go back home, but you take a trip because there is this wanting to go back home, and it's very beautiful. And this body is like a trip, you know. Taking a body of human being is like a trip. You're going to go back home, and you realize it, and you try to go back home.

Prabhupāda: That I can understand, that sometimes you realize that you are one, and sometimes you realize that you are different. That means simultaneously you are one and different from God. This is the conclusion. Acintya-bhedābheda. This is the philosophy, acintya, inconceivable, one and different, one because we are one in quality, and different in quantity. That is our position. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. The Vedic information is like that, that He is the Supreme Being amongst all beings. He is also being, we are also being, but He is the Supreme Being. So as being, we are one, but as Supreme and subordinate, we are different. This is the conclusion. As being, living being, we are one. That is not very difficult. Just like in your country the king, the Shah, he is also a being and you are also a being. But he is the supreme being in this country. Although as human being you are equal, but so far his power, his position is concerned, he is different. Similarly, as being, we are one with God, but so far the power and position is concerned, He is too big, the great. We are subordinate. This is our position. That is the right conclusion.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: But he's saying that their name is material, it's different...

Prabhupāda: No, no, then you have no idea of God. God is not material. God is not material.

Guest: Well, you have said though have a lion, lion who lives in the forest and you write lion.

Prabhupāda: That is material, that is material.

Guest: What you write here is not the true lion. Is, is a way of communication, you put it here in words.

Prabhupāda: Lion is, lion is material, and his name is also material, but God is not material. God is spiritual. Therefore His name is spiritual.

Guest: We accept that.

Prabhupāda: As spiritual... (two of the guests speak at once)

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Why are they disobeying the order of Mohammed?

Guest: Yes, they follow. It's essentially the same practice as the majority.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot amend on the words of Mohammed if you are a true Muslim.

Guest: I don't think they have meant to amend it, its just that...

Prabhupāda: Now why? There was five now they have made three. (indistinct) You cannot do that.

Guest: They maintain that, that Ali, that this was the practice of Ali. That Ali prayed at noon in the afternoon.

Guest: Ali is a representative of Mohammed.

Guest: He's the brother, brother-in-law, the son-in-law.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Ali.

Prabhupāda: Ali, Ali.

Guest: He was...

Prabhupāda: Ali Hussein.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which," and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."

Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: The four regulative principles should be stated.

Prabhupāda: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.

Madhudviṣa: We know it, but does someone else know it?

Prabhupāda: Is it necessary to mention?

Rūpānuga: It's a legal document also.

Bhagavān: Yeah, it should be mentioned.

Prabhupāda: Mentioned? Mention.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, this (indistinct) In the world I have come to know mostly, I have never seen any, except the word is a true couple. They are married means sex life...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (2): Except devotees, which after contacting, I haven't seen any (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, the whole world is going on. Married life means legalized prostitution. That is their philosophy. So therefore they are, in the Western world, they do not like to marry. And this is also prostitution; that is also prostitution. So let us go on with our illegal prostitution. Why legal prostitution? This is the philosophy. And that is the Freud philosophy. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Guest (2): Even Indians, the same. I...

Prabhupāda: The Indians, European, doesn't matter. The whole human society is like that.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Where is that chemist? Where is that chemical combination that, I mean to say, grows a soul, generate a soul? Even if you have got the chemicals, you cannot do it.

Pañcadraviḍa: Whether it's true or not, somebody was claiming to me that the scientists are creating primitive forms of life like enzymes and things like this because enzymes show... Enzymes are produced by life. They show certain living tendencies. The scientists claim they are able to create enzymes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the credit? The enzymes are being naturally created, and the soul is there. So what is his credit? The arrangement is already there automatically, the secretion between the man and the woman, and they mix together, emulsified, and the situation is created, and the soul comes there. The soul is injected through the semina of the man. It is already arranged. So what is your credit?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they say the credit is that "We are doing these things in the laboratory without the presence of the soul. They are not being produced by any living organism."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadraviḍa: "They are not being produced by any living organism."

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is your, your foolishness. Living organism is there. Just like we find something... The same argument, vṛścika-tāṇḍula-nyāya: "Vṛścika, the scorpion, is coming out of the heaps of rice." That... It does not mean the rice is produced the scorpion. That is foolishness. Rice, the heaps of rice, it does not create any scorpion. We have to get down here?

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: He has said somewhere, I don't particularly know, "The Indian priests(?) think like that."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his Gītā, in the verse that describes how to meditate on the formless, he states that although it says in the Bhagavad-gītā that it is very difficult to understand the formless aspect, he says this was true five thousand years ago but now it is no longer true.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have read in his Gītā.

Guest: Five thousand years ago it must have been true but now...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is the verse, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktā-sakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). So in explaining that śloka he said, "It was painful five thousand years ago, but it is not now painful. It has become easy." That means the version of Gītā can be changed after five thousand years. Then what is the importance of speaking by Kṛṣṇa if it is changeable like material things? then what is the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is it changeable?

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Any one you can take, and it will be explained.

Amogha: So any of the four meanings is also the same true meaning.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Sometimes they claim that we should not claim that our choice is the true choice, but they don't understand that any of those meanings can be true at the same time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this body is true. We have got body. We don't say it is false. It is true. Bodily pains and pleasures we feel, so how can I say that the body is false? The body means bodily pains and pleasures, then we are affected, so how you can say it is false? Similarly the mind, and soul is absolute thing. Factually. So any item you take, you can understand by thorough study.

Paramahaṁsa: In some cases, in a more controversial case, the word chosen, or the meaning chosen for a particular Sanskrit word, may change the whole meaning of the verse, but because...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take the paramparā meaning. Because we are foolish, we cannot understand properly. Tad vijñārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Therefore, one has to go to guru and understand the meaning by paramparā. You cannot make your own meaning. The meaning is already there. But if you cannot understand, then you should approach guru and understand the meaning by paramparā.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Because you're the expert.

Prabhupāda: It is not just we. You have to become expert to convert another expert. If you are not experienced, how you can convert others?

Paramahaṁsa: Is it true that you will end up converting people according to your own..., in other words, you convert people of your own caliber?

Prabhupāda: Not own caliber, any caliber. That requires expert management.

Paramahaṁsa: But if you become high quality or high class, then automatically you attract that type of person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can do. You American people, you can do. That I am instructing. You can do. And actually, because some of you will cooperate the movement is going on. Therefore I came to America. When I found that in India no intelligent boys were coming, then I decided, "Let me go to America."

Paramahaṁsa: Still, even after you went to America and brought back so many European and American disciples, still the Indians are so slow to come and join.

Prabhupāda: Because they have been... The disease is very chronic. They are not opulent. That diagnosis already given. They have become poverty-stricken. So daridra-doṣa guṇa naśe. Although they are born in India, they have got many qualification, due to this poverty-stricken position, they... Their first business is how to... Because they have got family attachment, so they cannot sacrifice. They will work very, very hard. You have seen how they are going to office, how..., because they have got the responsibility of family. That is Indians another feature. They take family responsibility. In your country there is no such thing. There is no family. There is no family responsibility. In India still that old tradition is going on. Therefore they cannot sacrifice the family responsibility, although they are willing. And the whole thing is it is due to poverty-stricken position. They have got family responsibilities. They think, "If I go, then whole family will starve. How can I go?" That is the exact position. And to come to that stage, that "Let my family starve, I don't mind," that is very higher stage. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Oh, no responsibility, simply I have got respons..." That is not ordinary stage. You cannot expect these things from ordinary man.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Isn't it, then, if one is happy, that's all that counts? If his happiness is also relative. So if I am a monkey...

Prabhupāda: No. There is absolute happiness. You do not know that. We are meant for that, because we are living beings. But on account of your ass quality you do not like to understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti.

Amogha: My parents used to tell me that nothing can be absolutely true, because everything is really finer shades of grey.

Prabhupāda: He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.

Amogha: They think that people who say there is Absolute Truth have not observed the other thoughts of other people, so they haven't seen everything.

Prabhupāda: What is that other thought? We know everyone's thought. We know everyone's thought.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But they say with science they can prove so many things.

Prabhupāda: We can also prove. You cannot prove. Just like you say the life is made of chemicals. You prove it. Take chemicals and make a life, then it is true. Otherwise it is a humbug. Why do you say like that, that life is made of chemicals? You cannot prove it.

Amogha: I do not say that life is made of chemicals.

Prabhupāda: They say.

Amogha: They say. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, these rascals say.

Amogha: But they say they can prove that there are chemicals...

Prabhupāda: You prove it. You take the chemicals and prove-produce life. Why do you talk nonsense? First of all prove. You did not produce a life, even an ant, in the laboratory, and still you say life is a combination of chemicals. Why do you say like that? Challenge them.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some bird.

Amogha: Oh, yeah. In Bhagavad-gītā we claim that it is a fact scientifically that Kṛṣṇa appeared on earth and so many things. But actually isn't it because we believe that the Bhagavad-gītā is true that we think it is scientific? Because we believe it. But someone else would say, "I don't believe it, so for me it's not scientific."

Prabhupāda: Why it is not scientific? If Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), by eating sufficient grains, the living entity become flourished. So, can you deny it?

Amogha: That must be true.

Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Useless. So this scientific at the present moment, after twenty years they'll be useless. This is your scientific.

Amogha: But at least what we know now is more true than what we knew before. And if we keep trying we'll know more.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means you are always in ignorance. This means that you are always in ignorance. And Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Kṛṣṇa says the same thing I am speaking to you again. That means we are not in ignorance. We may forget something, but the truth is always the same. But you are making, manufacturing, discovering truth. That means you do not know what is truth. You should answer like that. That you are all rascals. You do not know what is truth; therefore you are discovering truth. Truth is never discovered. It is already there. But you do not know what is that truth. That is credit that you are making advance towards truth, but you do not know what is truth. That is a fact. Is it clear? Making discoveries means you do not know what is truth. But it is good credit for you that you are trying to advance. That we agree.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: It sounds very nice. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we can feel unlimited pleasure.

Paramahaṁsa: It sounds too simple to be true.

Amogha: But maybe we can in addition to this unlimited pleasure, just to make sure we don't lose out on anything, maybe we can also enjoy all these other pleasures.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you (indistinct) motorcar and chant. You are working hard like an ass to get these motorcars. You'll get these by chanting.

Gaṇeśa: Sometimes they say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if everybody chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, what shape would the world be in?

Prabhupāda: They would get everything, and without any labor. Just see our example.

Amogha: But they say that the only reason you are... Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is existing is because we are working and giving you the money.

Prabhupāda: You must work. Because we are superior, you must work under us. (laughter) That will give you actually happiness. (indistinct) That is your duty. You are not carrying out your duty, then you will suffer. You work under our direction, you'll be happy.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: I'm afraid my life is one of these selfish lives. It's a life that's dominated by...

Prabhupāda: No, it is natural, just natural. Just like why first-class men required in society? Just like in your body there is first-class part, second-class part, third-class part, and fourth-class part. Just like your head is the first-class part of your body. If your head is cut off, then everything is finished.

Justin Murphy: True.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if in the society, if we don't create first-class men, that society is dead. That society is dead. So at the present moment there is no first-class men according to this word. Therefore there is chaotic condition, problems, and so on, so on, so on. So unless you create at least a few percentage of the people first-class men according to this standard, there cannot be any progress. This is my last word to you.

Justin Murphy: Thank you. I wish you all well, and maybe I should think along those lines myself. It's been most interesting talking to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is necessary to create a class of men first class, ideal. And if you all create fourth-class men, then there cannot be peace. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: I telephoned that geographer yesterday to talk to him, and he said that "What Swamiji said was true, but how can...?" He said, "It will be very difficult to apply because most people, they are not interested." But he says it was very... He could understand that was true, what you were saying. He may also come again to talk more.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let him come. Let him come. People may take or not take, but he is inquisitive gentleman. Let him understand. People... We are preaching. Who is taking? Mass of people, they are not taking it. But still, we are doing that. That is our duty. People may take or not take, but a God's servant must speak the truth. Just like Jesus Christ. He was crucified. Nobody took his words. But he did it. If people would have accepted his philosophy, then why he was crucified by the judges? It was done by the judges, Roman judges. So this is the position of the world. Socrates was killed because he said that there is soul. This is the defect of Western civilization. They want vox populi. What is that vox populi? Huh?

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But if what you say is true, why don't more people know about it? There are so many teachers. There are spiritual teachers and...

Prabhupāda: They will not know. That... These rascals say, "No, it will not be accepted." Just like yesterday they came, all the psychiatrists. As soon as we prescribed that "This is the prescription," they said, "Oh, it is impractical." I say that "Send your patients here. We shall make him instantly drugless." They will not accept it. "Oh, why not at home?" At home? And he will remain with the drug addict, and he will become drugless. Is it possible? The surrounding men, all drug addicts, and he will become drugless. How it is possible?

Amogha: Actually their hospital is a society where all the drug addicts get together.

Devotee (2): For a free cup of tea.

Prabhupāda: Good society. The group... We gave reference from Bhagavad-gītā, saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. Association is required. Otherwise why we are opening so many centers? Just to give them the facility of association. These men are big rascals. The world is full of rascals, and the so-called leaders, they are big rascals, that's all. They cannot make any solution. Simply take salary. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are big rascals, and the small rascals accept them as leader. That's all.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Well, but bhakti is activity. Bhakti is not passive. Active. Just like hearing. It is activity. Similarly glorifying, this is activity. Smaraṇam, remembering, memorizing, that is activity.

Jesuit: That is true. I see that. I think I sort of see a higher form of activity, where the senses really have taken over...

Prabhupāda: Sense means activity.

Jesuit: Intuition. Something higher than...

Prabhupāda: Sense, when you use your sense, just like śravaṇam, hearing. So you use your sense. So this is activity.

Jesuit: I see that. I understand that.

Prabhupāda: You engage your ear. That means activity. I glorify, I speak, I engage my tongue in glorifying. That is activity. But as soon as there is sense activity, that is activity.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee:

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

Translation: "The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision the learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater (outcaste)."

Prabhupāda: Mm. Just read again.

Devotee: "The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision...

Prabhupāda: Equal vision.

Jesuit: Equal vision.

Prabhupāda: Equal vision.

Jesuit: What does that mean, equal vision?

Prabhupāda: Equal vision means that I don't make any distinction between you and a dog.

Jesuit: You make no distinction...

Prabhupāda: No, this is spiritual vision because a paṇḍita, paṇḍita means learned man, his equal vision means he does not make any difference between the souls. The dog has got also soul and the learned scholar has got also soul. But the soul is covered by the dog's body, and here the soul is covered by the learned scholar's body. Actually both of them are souls, part and parcel of God.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: I don't understand that.

Prabhupāda: If... Suppose your son, you have got this body, so your father must have body.

Jesuit: Yes, true.

Prabhupāda: Similarly if the son of God has body, the God must have body.

Guest: Not necessarily.

Prabhupāda: Why? Can you show any example, a son is born from without body?

Jesuit: That is on a very human level which...

Prabhupāda: Anyway that your experience is on the human field, you have to give some example that "Here is no body but the sun has body." Show me the example.

Jesuit: You can have a man who has a thing in what we would call super-eminence and he has it on a higher form...

Prabhupāda: Higher form maybe, but there is form.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We have got this material body and spiritual soul. That is in this material condition there is distinction between the spirit and matter. As soon as the spirit goes from this material body, it has no value.

Jesuit: No life, true.

Prabhupāda: It is matter only, lump of matter, combination of matter. Therefore the spirit is important even in this life.

Jesuit: Oh, I see that, of course.

Prabhupāda: Yes, spirit is important. But God is fully spirit, He has no material quality. Yes. We have got, in this material condition, difference between the matter and spirit, but God has not so, such thing. He is whole spirit. That is the difference between God...

Jesuit: And also, as a result, the human, you, I, all these, we're all persons separate from one another, distinct from one another, and distinct from God, who is a separate person.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, we admit that.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: No, it's a false theory because it goes against all logic and philosophy.

Prabhupāda: But no, theory in this form that God is everywhere, by His potency but everything is not God. This is our philosophy. God is everywhere. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spread everywhere but that does not mean that everything is sun.

Jesuit: That's true.

Prabhupāda: It is like that. God is all-pervading by His potency. This book, this is also energy of God. Find out this verse, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4).

Jesuit: Do you, in your creed, do you believe in metempsychosis, that is the soul going through one form of life and then if it lives badly, the person lives badly, it comes back in another form and so on? Do you believe in the metempsychosis?

Prabhupāda: Transmigration.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: God says that, that "You don't desire anything, you simply become faithful to Me." That is God's desire. But we are not abiding by the orders of God. We want, we desire so many things. Just like, don't mind if I say, that God says, "Thou shalt not kill." But we are killing. We are violating. Their tendency is there so we must suffer for that.

Jesuit: Aḥ, true, sure. If we know that we're doing wrong.

Prabhupāda: Because we are not abiding by the order of God, therefore we must be prepared to suffer. So I, if I kill you then you kill me. Then going on, then I'll kill you, you kill me, go on. Life for life. You have no right to kill but if you kill then you'll be killed.

Jesuit: I can accept all that. Although it's true that God has said, "Love one another."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: People have always obeyed God.

Prabhupāda: They'd kill. Instead of loving, they kill, so they must suffer.

Jesuit: But it's not proved that the way of suffering is to come back in another form which is the theory of transmigration of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Just like you're in this apartment, you can go to another apartment and that apartment may not be exactly like this. It may be better or it may be worse. Similarly we have entered, find out the tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Take sex, how can that be considered...?

Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life, you also trained up, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.

Jesuit: That's true. We don't say that sex is bad.

Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?

Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.

Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.

Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...

Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So dharmāviruddha, sex life which is not against religious principle, that I am. Kṛṣṇa, God says. So sex life is not bad provided it is under the religious system.

Jesuit: That's true of everything, yes. I thought you were saying sex in itself is bad.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Sex life...

Jesuit: There have been people in the history of the world like the Manicheans and that who held that sex in itself was bad. Now I couldn't accept that. It's part of man.

Prabhupāda: No, dharmāviruddha. Just you can have sex for begetting nice children but not for sense gratification.

Jesuit: Also for increasing the love between husband and wife.

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Jesuit: Even though they can't have children.

Prabhupāda: No, they can have children.

Jesuit: Suppose they can't.

Prabhupāda: They can, if they can beget nice children, they can have sex.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...inferior energy of God. Matter is not different from God. Find out, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Because everything is emanates from God. He is the father of everything.

Jesuit: God has created everything, yes. But not everything is spiritual.

Prabhupāda: That I already said, that God is..., everything is depending on God, but not everything is God.

Jesuit: No, true. So this, no matter what you do to it, it must remain matter.

Prabhupāda: This is matter, but when it is used for God, this is spirit.

Jesuit: Well, that's why I say it is figurative use.

Prabhupāda: The same example, just like...

Jesuit: It still remains wood.

Prabhupāda: ...the church is made of matter, wood and stone, but it is spirit, because here there is nothing other business than God. So the real thing is, matter means forgetfulness of God. Read that, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't teach them that I am God. I never taught. I always teach them I am servant of God, you are also servant. And they accept it. Actually that is our position. This is bluff. When somebody says "I am God," that is bluff, cheating. We protest very vehemently against the declaration that "I am God." No. Nobody can become God. God is one.

Jesuit: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: Well, I must run away. It's been very good talking to you.

Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda. Just take some prasāda.

Madhudviṣa: This is a little fruit that we traditionally offer to a guest. We offer them a little fruit so could you take one piece?

Prabhupāda: You can take the whole plate. (laughter)

Jesuit: Take the whole plate? I just eat it?

Madhudviṣa: (laughing) Yes, yes. It's just...

Jesuit: No special ceremony?

Madhudviṣa: We've already done that.

Jesuit: Ok. When I was in India and I visited a shrine... It was the festival of the goddess of learning.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Sarasvatī-pūjā.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: Are people using the wrong things to live too sophisticated?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must be. Because he is foolish, he will do all nonsense..., wrong things, which will create unhappiness. To deny God means foolishness, and foolish man simply will create trouble. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy by simply creating trouble, that's all. And they are claiming, the foolish Darwin's theories, they also claim that monkey is our forefather.

Journalist: Is that true? Do you believe that?

Prabhupāda: No, I have told you already, the evolution. The monkey is not our forefather, but in the evolutionary process we came through monkey. That is a fact. Because that is an animal, so we have to pass through three million varieties of animal's body. So monkey is one of them.

Journalist: When did we stop becoming the monkey and start to become a man?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that depends. By nature's course, you automatically come to human body. Now, in the human body it is a junction, whether you want to make further progress and if you want to go back again to the cycle of the birth and death and the evolutionary process. That is to be decided by you. If you want to go to God, you can go. And if you want to become again a monkey, you can do that. That will depend on your work. Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (1): We can see, Śrīla Prabhupāda, by the distribution of wealth and minerals in each loka, in each planet, it is meant to be governed by one ruler. One place there is gold, one place grain to grow. Is this true?

Prabhupāda: No. Everywhere there is everything, maybe proportionately in different quantities.

Hari-śauri: Is that governing that Brahmā does in the universe, he does that in relationship with all the other demigods like they are departmental heads? So he is not personally directing every single thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is given in charge. Just like we have got different GBC's for different jobs. Similarly, they are doing their duty nicely. All these planets are the different residential quarter of different demigods. They are controlling the whole universal affairs. In comparison to them, this human being is nothing. We are controlled; we are not controller. That they do not realize. The modern civilization they do not realize, although they are being controlled they do not recognize it. That is the defect. This way?

Devotee (2): Yeah.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if the human form is insignificant compared to demigods, but still, it is very much desired, this human form of life, even by the demigods?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because very good chance of realizing God in the human form of life. Just like difference between Western countries and India. India, a very quick chance of realization of God. The atmosphere is so nice. So this planet is good for God realization, and the best place is in India.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (3): So it is decreasing now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And at the end there will be no rain. Then this whole planet will be ablaze with fire. That is the beginning of destruction. Everything will die—all trees, plants, animals, everything. It will be made into ashes by the fire. And then there will be rain, and the ashes will be melted, and the whole universe will be finished.

Devotee (2): I read too, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that in the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was only rainfall in the nighttime. Is this true?

Prabhupāda: Night time?

Devotee (2): Rain would fall in the nighttime so that...

Prabhupāda: No. Who said that nighttime?

Śrutakīrti:: It mentions in Kṛṣṇa book that in the evening it would rain.

Devotee (2): So as not to disturb the activity of the inhabitants through the daytime.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. If nighttime it rains and daytime there is sunshine, then the land becomes very fertile to produce. Yes. There is a common saying in Bengal, dine jal rātr e tā rā sei janme sukha dhā rā.(?) If it rains heavily during daytime and at night you see the stars, then you should know there will be scarcity of rain. There will be scarcity of rain and scarcity of food grains. Best thing is at night there must be heavy rain, and daytime, there should be sunshine. Then the field will be very fertile.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, karma-mīmāṁsā. (break) Now, if you do good, good result will come. So sometimes it so happens that a person doing very good, still, good result will not come. Is it not?

Devotee (1): That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Which way? (break)

Hari-śauri: Their argument is, then, if God is there and He is actually the ultimate controller, and He is motivating everything to happen, then I can just sit back and do nothing and things will happen.

Prabhupāda: No, you should work for the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. But do not think that because you working very nicely, the result will come. That is the... Because it is not in your hand. Therefore, karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana: "Your duty is to go on working, but don't expect the result as you desire." That will never happen unless it is sanctioned. Just like a man is suffering. Your duty is to appoint nice physician, nice medicine. But is there any guarantee that he will live? Why does he die? You can say that "I have given the best medicine and best medical treatment." Still, he dies. What is the cause? What do they say? What is the cause?

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 3: If they say that boy... If I was told, "Look, that boy did it," then the case would have been done completely differently because then you can't then go around and say, "Look, he didn't do it." So it's a different approach, different approach altogether you see. But as far as... I just wanted to get that thing straight, as far as that particular boy. But according to the law in here, we have to operate within our law. Now, true it is that outside of it, you have got the question of God's law. But I'm not that kind of lawyer. I'm not involved with God's law.

Prabhupāda: No, I... I know that. That is not...

Guest 3: I can only operate with the tools that I have.

Guest 1: But even if you are a church, if you are a church-goer it makes it very interesting because you're subject to that church law.

Guest 3:. Well, I'm a church-going person.

Guest 1: What happens in the situation where somebody has committed a murder?

Guest 3: Nothing. It's... Look...

Guest 1: It's a matter of church conscience.

Guest 3: It's nothing. It's got nothing to do... I'm not there to judge...

Guest 1: This was the example given.

Guest 3: I'm not there to judge. All I'm there to do is to do a job. Someone else has got the unfortunate task of having to judge people. I don't have to do that, so I don't decide.

Prabhupāda: No, we can judge from the standard laws. India still, if one has very good garden and flowers, if somebody goes, "Sir, I want to take some flowers from your garden for worshiping God," "Yes, you can take." They will be very glad.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: Well, question is very fundamental. Everybody has his own God, so let everybody bring one's own God in understanding. It's not... God is...

Prabhupāda: God... you have got own God. God says, "Always think of Me."

Yogi Bhajan: Um hm. That's true.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. The followers may think of Him. Man-manā. "You become My devotee, become My devotee and worship Me and offer respect to Me," that's all. So we are teaching our student, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always think of Him. You just offer your respect and worship Him. In this way become His devotee." We do not... Spiritually, thing is (?) (indistinct) That's all right. And they are doing that and they are getting the result. We do not say that "Sit down, press your nose, and meditate and this, that," or, no. Simple thing. There is God, we have got our temple... (Aside:) Don't make now this sort of thing.... Simple thing. We have got our temple. We say that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Here is God. And think of Him." As soon as you chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa..." Everyone has got the beads. That means you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And then we are offering respect, go to the temple and offer our obeisance, very simple thing. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if you don't accept, then you must have your own God. Do that. But the followers of Vedic principle, they will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). I think somebody was telling me that Guru Nanak also accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme father. Is it a fact? I do not know.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The Guru Nanak says Kṛṣṇa is God.

Yogi Bhajan: That's very true. Kṛṣṇa is God.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction?

Yogi Bhajan: We are not disobeying any instruction towards God.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's... What Kṛṣṇa says, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you take it, Bhagavad-gītā, that instruction? What is wrong there? Every problem is solved there. Now, so far economic... Now the question is economic. So Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So where is the objection? Produce food grain, and both animal and man will be happy. So who will disagree with this point? Follow this. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa says first. This is economic. Social—Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society should be divided into four classes according to quality and work. So four classes there are. First class, intelligent class; the second class, the administrators; the third class, the mercantile; and the fourth class, who are not within these three class. That is going on. Now make it systematic. The first-class man... Who is a first-class man? Then... Find out. Satya śamo damaḥ titikṣa ārjavaḥ, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Train first-class men. He must be truthful. He must be self-controlled, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. He must have full knowledge of the whole world, jñānaṁ vijñānam, practical application. So where is the question of that "I am Sikh," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim..."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But prime minister guru, does he believe in Bhagavad-gītā?

Yogi Bhajan: Oh, yeah. He knows it by heart, word to word. That's true.

Prabhupāda: So why he does not teach his disciple, followers?

Yogi Bhajan: He teaches, he teaches, he teaches. He's a very good man. And there are other ācāryas and Śaṅkarācārya Math and other people are coming. We have the list in Los Angeles, about sixty who have accepted to come. Then from the Judeo-Christian thoughtway(?) people are participating. And then...

Prabhupāda: No, they will come and they will go away, that's all.

Yogi Bhajan: No, understand...

Prabhupāda: There will be... There will be no understanding. I know that. There will be no understanding. You can write it down in your notebook. They will come, and they will say, and they will go away, that's all. I have dealt with all these men very nicely. You see?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

John Mize: Once the egg is laid, there is no chance for it to be fertilized.

Prabhupāda: No, egg is... The living entity is already there. Just like a woman is pregnant means the living entity is already there. So as soon as there is egg, the living entity is already there. It is taking time to come out. Just in the womb of the mother, the child is taking time to grow and become fit to come out.

John Mize: True, but the egg in the mother has been fertilized by the male sperm, whereas the egg laid by a chicken was not fertilized...

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. They have got that potency. There are four kinds of birth: from the egg, from the vegetable, from fermentation, and from embryo. So from any of these four kinds of sources the living entity come out. Aṇḍa-ja, udbij-ja, jaraya-ja, and sveda-ja, the Sanskrit name. Sveda-ja, simply by perspiration. Just like unclean bed they produce bugs. The man gets perspiration, bad perspiration, and in contact with air, with this perspiration, the living entity comes. That is bug. This is called sveda-ja, "out of perspiration." Your coat, shirt, if you don't cleanse, or your body is unclean, you will find so many moths within the shirt. How it is coming? From the perspiration, bad perspiration, bad smell. Not that every time the male female combination required. There are other sources also.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Because if you are not prepared to give up, then you cannot accept God.

Dr. Pore: I think you're being a little unfair to Dr. Crossley. I think what you say is true, that the most important thing we can do is to seek and know God, but I don't think it's right to say that it's a bad thing to study how other people or how man has...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say bad thing. I say if you are serious about God, now, here is God.

Dr. Pore: That's what a university in part is for, to study about how people have thought on different matters.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. I have already said. If you are seeking after something, if you get that something, why don't you accept it?

Dr. Pore: Do you believe that Christ said that Kṛṣṇa was his father?

Prabhupāda: The name may be different. Just like in our countries we say this flower something. You say something, something. But the subject matter must be the same. Name is not... You can say in a different way, as you understand. But God is one. God cannot be two. You may give Him different names. That is different thing. But God is one. God cannot be two.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: If God is known by many different names, though, is it not possible, then, to know God then in many different ways, in many different traditions?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like you are the same person, either as professor in the university or at home before your wife, you are the same person. Your wife may address you in a different name, and the students may address you in different name, but you are the same person.

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: If the person is the same, so difference of name does not change the circumstances.

Dr. Wolfe: But there are many aspects of God, of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: I agree with you that we love very badly and we slaughter the animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So badly love is not love.

Dr. Pore: But is the converse true, that we chant very well and that we can love Kṛṣṇa even when we cannot love our fellow people?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that... We are not... Chanting... We are also working. It is not that we are simply sitting down and chanting. Because we are chanting, therefore we are loving everyone. That is a fact. These Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters, they will never agree to kill any animal, even a plant, because they know everything is part and parcel of God. Why unnecessarily one should be killed? That is love.

Dr. Pore: Love means never killing?

Prabhupāda: There are so many things. It is one of the items. Yes, that is one of the... Do you kill your own son? Why? Because you love him.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Could it be called the true yoga of our time?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. It is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga begins with chanting. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). And the more you chant and hear, you become purified. So I think you leaders of your country, you should take this movement very seriously and take it for acceptance. It is not difficult. Chanting. You can chant in school; you can chant in college; you can chant in the factory; you can chant on the street. There is no special qualification required. But if we introduce this chanting, you will be benefited great. There is no loss, but there is great gain.

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are aware that they advance the argument of mesmerization against chanting. The psychologists do that.

Prabhupāda: That's good. That's good. If you can mesmerize, that will... Now Dr. Judah has admitted that you can mesmerize the drug-addicted hippies and engage them in understanding Kṛṣṇa, is a great achievement. (laughter) Yes.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Peter: Yeah, I guess you could say that.

Prabhupāda: So first of all you have to believe yourself that you are part and parcel of God.

Peter: I don't believe that what I experience is necessarily different from what most of the people...

Prabhupāda: What do you believe? Let me know what you believe. That also you do not know?

Peter: Yeah, I don't know what I believe. That's the problem. OK, true. I grew up without a consciousness of God or without even...

Prabhupāda: Without God.

Peter: Well, I wouldn't say without God but without...

Prabhupāda: But without God, how there can be God consciousness?

Peter: So... I don't think that I experience differently than anybody here, but I think that I express that differently. So, what... If I believe in God in my own way, which is maybe expressed...

Prabhupāda: No, our proposition is that you believe or not believe, there is God.

Peter: Well, how can a person not believe? You have to believe.

Prabhupāda: Just like there are so many criminals. They do not believe in government. They don't care for the government. But that does not mean there is no government.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: That's true.

Prabhupāda: The opportunity given by nature, good consciousness to know God, Viṣṇu. Now, practically, take anyone, especially in the western world. Nobody can say what is God. Is it not?

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Judah: That is quite true.

Prabhupāda: So in that position, if we are offering, "Here is God," why do they not accept? What is the objection?

Dr. Judah: There isn't any objection. I think the great problem, of course, in the western world is that the western world has always been involved in materialism and...

Prabhupāda: The western world... That means they don't want to know God. So this is very horrible condition.

Dr. Judah: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Animal condition. Not only horrible, it is animal condition. They do not want to know God. Just like these animals, they are not interested. So they have no church, the animals, or temple. But in the human society, either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, there is some arrangement for understanding God. Now they are also neglecting that, everyone, all over the world. Now they are clearly... The Communists, they hate to say anything about God. So ultimately they are coming to such position, the Communists, that "No word about God." So this is the position. Now apart from them, just like theologists and theosophists. They are, at least, after understanding what is God, but they cannot ascertain definitely. So why do they not take? We are offering, "Here is God." Where is the objection? Why they should object? If you do not know something and if I give you the information, why you should not take?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: No, that is true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are offering here God. Why should you not take it seriously? I am speaking to you because you have got this Theological... What is that?

Bahulāśva: Union.

Prabhupāda: Union. So they should take it. If they have no information of actual God, take it from us.

Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I do, I... As I say, as I said last night...

Prabhupāda: No, you have got that mentality, I know that. But because you are president or chairman of that center... What is that? Union.

Dr. Judah: I'm chairman of the department of the history and phenomenology of religion.

Prabhupāda: So who is the chairman of this union?

Dr. Judah: I'm just the chairman of this one department of the history and phenomenology of religion.

Prabhupāda: That's... Then you are also important officer. So you can induce them, that "Here is God."

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: When you have your temple there in Berkeley, I want to continue on chanting and being with the devotees and doing what I can to further Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā... If you take this that "Kṛṣṇa is Indian, Kṛṣṇa is Hindu, we shall not take," but the words Kṛṣṇa, if you take it, "God said," or whatever you..., so the wordings are God's. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is nobody, superior element than Me." So God can say that. So you remove the word, Kṛṣṇa uvāca, but take the words of God. Who can be superior than God?

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: So in this way if you read simply Bhagavad-gītā and separating the word Kṛṣṇa, it is God's word. All factual. So why should you not take the science of God?

Dr. Judah: Yes.

Prabhupāda: God can say that there is no more greater principle than Me. Is it not? You may accept anyone God, but God can say that. So that is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā:

mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat

kiñcid asti dhanañjaya

mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ

sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva

(BG 7.7)

Every word is God's word. You may accept Kṛṣṇa God or not, the words are God's words. That is Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: So how much great brain He has got. He has created in such a way. So we have to understand like that, that "God is creator, so how perfect creator He is." In this way we have to study theology, item by item.

Dr. Judah: Yes. And God is also, they would say, the judge of man, judging man for his sins, and, of course...

Prabhupāda: So therefore man is subordinate to God. So why the people are denying the supremacy of God? Just like so-called scientists, rascals, they say, "There is no God." Immediately they should be taken as rascals. Why they should be given this title, "scientist"? He does not know who is his superior. They should be condemned immediately. Anyone who denies God, he is a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher amongst the fools, but he is a rascal. He does not know his subordinate position. Immediately designate him, "You are rascal. You have no position because you do not know your superior." In this way you have to study. Then these rascals will be caught up, how great rascals they are, denying the existence of God. So we have to teach people like that, that "Don't follow these rascals." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Anyone who is not God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is immediately grouped amongst the miscreants, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means very meritorious. Just like these scientists. They have got good merit, but that merit is being applied for sinful activities. Just like expert thief, rogue. He has got merit, but he is applying the merit for sinful activities. And next word is mūḍha. Why they are misusing in this way? Because they are rascal, mūḍha, ass. You have seen yesterday film, the ass?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In Bhāgavatam everything has been described.

Dr. Judah: Yes, I received the first part of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that you translated and sent to me, for which I again thank you. I brought it with me to read on the plane. (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...true that now theologians are trying to make mathematical models to understand God?

Dr. Judah: Mathematical models?

Dharmādhyakṣa: This Whitehead, that Alfred North Whitehead, in process theology?

Dr. Judah: Well, I don't know that that would quite be true. I don't know Whitehead really. But it is a... I don't know whether that could be said to be true or not. I really don't know.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.

Devotee (1): It's true, because of my birth in this...

Prabhupāda: So how they can follow you?

Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupāda, that these are some problems.

Prabhupāda: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaiṣṇava ācāra. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.

Devotee (2): But we have done that for five years, and no one here listened to us at all.

Prabhupāda: So why you are anxious to listen... You... Let them not listen. You do your own duty.

Devotee (2): We had no duty. They gave us nothing to do. They would not recognize our qualities, as we understand, even of, say Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So what can I do?

Devotee (2): Well, you can make statements on certain of these things so that when they hear them, their ignorance will be dispelled.

Prabhupāda: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyāsa. So if you say, Prabhupāda, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.

Prabhupāda: They say like that?

Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.

Devotee (2): They do, Prabhupāda.

Satsvarūpa: No, they don't. Śrīla Prabhupāda has said these things don't apply to you. Don't worry about them because you are not following the principles.

Devotee (1): But they do say, and we are following and you don't know what we're doing, Satsvarūpa, because you haven't known me for two years. So you really don't know what I'm doing. You're not around.

Satsvarūpa: But our society is going nicely. It's not...

Devotee (2): In some respects it's going fine. But these are problems which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think, as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some people who it's not and where these misconceptions apply, it's a real problem and we're trying to deal with it because it affects our lives.

Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sādhanācāra.

Devotee (2): We are also attempting to follow sādhanācāra. And if we are imperfect...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: It's according to the body. Because the duck has a particular body, the water for him is safety, and because we have this particular body, it is dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): (break) ...true that when you become more purified that you will see everything differently with your eyes and hear everything differently with your ears and all this?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): We won't see things the way we perceive them now, right?

Prabhupāda: If you are suffering from cataract, how you can see distinctly? You have to get your eyes operated. Then you can see. So our bhakti process is simply purifying, purifying, more, more, more. When you are completely purified, you see God face to face, eye to eye, talk with Him, play with Him, just like cowherds boys, they are playing, the gopīs are dancing. You get that position.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Devotee (1): Only Kṛṣṇa is doing everything then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is not like you that when you are given some business, you become embarrassed. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and you. He never becomes embarrassed.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it true that our advancement in devotional services... Is it influenced a lot by our past karma, how many sinful activities we have committed?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Bhakti is not under karma. Bhakti is under your good will. If you accept to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you can do that without being checked by anything else. Simply you have to will, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa. You are asking me. So long I did not do. From this day I do." That will depend upon you.

Devotee (2): Not that if I was more sinful, I would make less advancement than somebody who is more pious.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be, simply surrender and everything is finished. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... (BG 18.66). Even if you are sinful, Kṛṣṇa will give you release, "All right. You have surrendered. That's all right." That is wanted. If you reserve something and cheat Kṛṣṇa, "Now I am surrendering," Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent. "You have still reservation. No."

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Devotee (2): How can you tell when your senses are getting purified?

Prabhupāda: You will understand Kṛṣṇa more and more. So long your senses are not purified, you will not understand clearly what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...understanding Kṛṣṇa means detestful to the material world, attached to Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. (break)

Devotee (2): Is it true that eventually by this process we'll become purified so we can become like śruti-dharas?

Prabhupāda: That you will see when you become purified.

Devotee (2): Then we will actually attain that condition, then.

Prabhupāda: Try to become purified. Don't imagine and guess, "What will be the condition when I am purified?" This is all nonsense. Try to become purified.

Devotee (2): Then you perceive it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: You tell the story of the potter. He has many pots. (Prabhupāda laughs) And he tries to imagine what it will be like when he becomes very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense, waste time. (break) ...you are eating you will understand yourself, "Yes, I am eating, I am getting strength, I am getting satisfaction." But simply theory..., "What will happen after eating? What will happen?" You eat and you see what is happening. What is the use of asking this question? You eat and you will understand.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

t. Mozee: Yeah, Govinda dāsa told me that you had read this on your way in, so I brought a copy. I didn't know whether you wanted to quote from it. But I was ready to be prepa... I was prepared.

Prabhupāda: You have read it?

Lt. Mozee: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is a problem. Actually it is a problem. Such a rich state as America, and there is crime. It does not look well. Yes.

Lt. Mozee: Hm. True. It's our number one problem.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is the solution.

Lt. Mozee: It's our number one problem. Now, when the people see the politician and the affluent stealing they say, "Why not? It's good for them; it's good for me." Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: Oh, then what you're saying is not all women should be subordinate to all men.

Prabhupāda: No, woman should be subordinate to the man, so that the man can take charge of the woman. Then that woman is not a problem to the public.

Woman reporter: Is it true for all woman and all men?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the nature. You take even in the dogs. The dogs they also take care of their children. The tigers, they take care of the children. So in the human society, if the woman is made pregnant and the man goes away and she is embarrassed, she has to beg from the government, that is not a very good situation.

Woman reporter: What about women who do not have children?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is also another unnatural thing. Sometimes they use contraceptives. They kill children, abortion. That is also not very good. These are all sinful activities. These are sinful activities, to kill child in the womb. And take shelter of abortion. These are all sinful activities. One has to suffer for that.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Nitāi: Especially great scientists, that they want to see what has made this man so intelligent.

Woman reporter: That's not necessarily true.

Prabhupāda: Then why they study the brain? What is the purpose of studying brain unless there is difference? You study different brains. Unless you feel that there is difference between this brain and that brain, why do you study. What is the meaning of study?

Woman reporter: To find differences among men. It's not necessarily differences between men and woman.

Prabhupāda: I don't say man or woman. But I say you study different brains—why? Unless you think there is some difference?

Woman reporter: There is difference.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if there is difference, then what is the harm if there is difference between man and woman's brain?

Woman reporter: They say there isn't.

Prabhupāda: They say, but the fact we have to study. As soon as you study the construction of different brain, then you must know that there is difference, different activities.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the thing.

Brahmānanda: Nowadays that is no longer true.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays may be different, but I am speaking of the Vedic ideas, that woman in all circumstances, unless the husband is crazy or something like that, mad, or..., in every case the instance is that wife is faithful and subservient to the husband. That is the Vedic culture. Even the husband goes out of home, vānaprastha, the wife also goes with him. When he takes sannyāsa, at that time there is no accompaniment of wife. Otherwise in gṛhastha life and even vānaprastha life, the wife is constant companion and subservient. That is the history of Vedic culture. History, Gāndhārī, because her husband was blind, so when the marriage settlement was done, she was not blind, but she voluntarily became blind by wrapping cloth.

Devotee (2): She remained with the cloth wrapped for her whole life?

Prabhupāda: Whole life.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So you effort is limited. How you can conclude?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So inductive knowledge is true to a certain limit.

Prabhupāda: Certain extent, that's all. It is not conclusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But to a devotee, though, there is nothing like inductive knowledge because knowledge gives by Kṛṣṇa. So it must be deductive.

Prabhupāda: Deductive always. And that is easier. Kṛṣṇa says that "I come as death and take away everything." So we know that nobody can be immortal; everyone must die. Simple conclusion.

Brahmānanda: We don't have to test it because Kṛṣṇa says it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You take that...

Ravīndra-svarūpa: We could never know ourselves unless we knew all cases.

Prabhupāda: No, we do not require to know. We hear from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person. That is perfect

Devotee: That's our logic. You said that once.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our logic.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Woman: Yesterday I met a devotee from New York who said that there were many people present at the festival from other planets and that you could see them. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Everyone can see. If you have eyes, you can see also. But if you have no eyes, therefore you are envious because they have offered a nice motor car. So you have to make your eyes to see. A blind man cannot see. The eyes are to be treated how to see.

Woman: Is this true also with your other senses?

Prabhupāda: Every senses. If you want to see something, you must be trained up how to see. Like a scientist is seeing something through the microscope, and you want to see with naked eyes. How it is possible to see? You must adopt the process to see. Then you can see everything.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: Because I know there are students in the group who would like to visit Vṛndāvana. And you, I think, talked to some this spring and you were there. I know that the senior student with the group is very interested in going to Vṛndāvana.

Devotee: We have nice facility there. (indistinct)

Prof. Hopkins: That's true. They're going to be in Delhi for a week or so. It would be great if they could get out to Vṛndāvana just for a day. They can come back later when they have more time. So... Would they have to make preliminary arrangements or could they...? Is there some way they could make arrangements from Delhi to do that?

Brahmānanda: Afterwards we can discuss it.

Prof. Hopkins: Okay. So.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Prof. Hopkins: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Baradrāj: ...false, they must also conclude that there's something true. Because that is relative. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the basis for scientific rejection of religious dogma is that in the Medieval era in...

Prabhupāda: Religious..., not dogma. Just like in Christian religion it is said that "God created this." So this is a fact, but it is not properly explained. And neither the followers understood how to explain, third-class men. So therefore they should accept, that's all. They should accept. Just like one thing, sweetmeat. A child is tasting. So if the child wants how it is made, so he has no power to understand. Therefore he should be simply ordered, "You simply eat. That's all." So in the Bible it is like that. And therefore it is strictly ordered that "You should follow." The things are there but they are not explained because they were third-class men. Otherwise why the commandment was, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed first of all Jesus Christ? So what class of men they were? All third-class, fourth-class men. How they will understand? Now people have become, by education, advanced...

Bahulāśva: We should go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because they have these sprinklers on here.

Prabhupāda: Now they should come to big dictionary. This is Vedic. The Vedic truth is there, but it is not properly explained because the men were fourth-class. Now the people have become advanced. They should take to Vedic literature. Then they will understand how God created. But it was not explained because the people, they were living in the desert and shepherds and all fourth-class, fifth-class men. And now they, these first-class men, all advanced men, they are trying to adjust the tenth-class ideas, and therefore they are becoming rejecting, that "It is all useless." Now they should come to first-class understanding in the Vedas.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Just like I do not know where this pathway goes. But you show me, "This way." So without faith, how can I go? If I have no faith, then I cannot move even an inch. I believe, "Yes, he is all right. Let me go." This is faith. I do not know whether it is going, which way it is going. So without faith, you cannot move an inch. So faith must be there, either it is true or blind.

Yadubara: So everyone has faith.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone has. Therefore the direction should be taken from the perfect, and with faith you will make progress.

Nārāyaṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that wherever one puts their faith, He gives them the steadiness to worship in that way. So how come so many people, they put their faith in all these false gurus or people that impose themself as ones who are in knowledge and then they become fooled? Is this previous activities? Sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayādvaita: You explained that in your lecture yesterday, that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart and He is giving direction to remember or to forget, that sometimes He is directing to remember Him, sometimes to forget Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you have no faith, then Kṛṣṇa will not give you instruction. When he is faithless, he will not make progress. Stops.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they deny. Therefore we call them atheist. But these Māyāvādī, they take the shelter of Vedas and they preach the same philosophy. "Yes, brahman-nirakara." (Hindi) ...don't believe in God... (Hindi) For the time being, Śaṅkarācārya might have said something like that to turn the Buddhists again to Vedas, but that is temporary. But they have taken it all true. (Hindi) ...eighty-five years they are working. They have no position. (Hindi) What is that? TM?

Brahmānanda: TM, Transcendental Meditation.

Prabhupāda: And what is the items they say?

Brahmānanda: No philosophy, no belief, no restrictions.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see. He advertises. Mahesh Yogi.

Indian man: Mahesh Yogi, yes. Followers, they are taking everything.

Prabhupāda: He says, "There is no restriction, or no philosophy, no faith." (Hindi conversation) Recently one book was published by Professor Judah. He has studied this movement for five years. He came to India. So he has written one book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture, but scholarly. (Hindi) He appreciated. (Hindi) ...and the fifty books I have, four hundred pages each.

Morning Walk -- August 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Don't say like that.

Member: You are deputy of God, and He is making you true. Swamiji will be staying here for another two months?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I wish to.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you seen that land which has been given to us in Nellore?

Member: Yes, it is very near to me. You see, in Nellore, one lady has donated about ninety acres of land.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With a house.

Member: With a house which will cost nearly four or five lakhs or even more. Very costly. And they also ...

Prabhupāda: Which season is good? I shall go there.

Member: Yes, sir. You are welcome.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When is a good time? When is the weather the best?

Member: Best time is September, October. Of course, there will be little rain. In December generally it will be little chill, but not as chill as in the other parts.

Prabhupāda: So what is the best season?

Member: Best season, from August to September. That is the best season. And I wish our guruji to visit our temple, Lord of Samhis(?) and you must see.

Prabhupāda: Where is that temple?

Member: Lord Veṅkaṭeśvara temple. That is the richest temple in the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Bālajī?

Member: Bālajī.

Prabhupāda: I have seen it.

Morning Walk -- August 29, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Offset you can take. It will be very cheap.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, true. And also then next time we want to reprint it, we can just reprint. It doesn't have to be composed again. (break)

Prabhupāda: You give me simply hot milk with miṣṭi. (break) They're going to foreign country, but once they go they become disappointed and not second time.

Brahmānanda: Someone has gone?

Prabhupāda: So many.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even this man has gone to Hong Kong.

Brahmānanda: Really?

Prabhupāda: They generally go to this Middle East it is called? No?

Brahmānanda: Far East.

Prabhupāda: Far East, yes. Because there are many Indians.

Dhanañjaya: They also go to London.

Prabhupāda: No, not London. In London the kathā vāca, they go, Rāmāyaṇa of Tulsi das.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: They do not go to the church, but they come to us for arguing with Bible. Just see. What is the meaning? Their churches have closed, nobody goes, and they come to argue with us with Bible. That means "The Devil cites scripture." They are devils, and they are quoting from Bible.

Devotee (2): So many people who come to our program, they are Christians. There may be 75% who come. They are all Christians.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We don't discriminate whether he is Christian. We take everyone as human being, welcome. So what do they say? They also quote Bible?

Devotee (2): They say that their priests tell them, "You just listen to me and forget about the Bible."

Prabhupāda: And who are you? Then I can say also, "You hear me. Forget about Bible." Anyone can say. Why the priest? Wherefrom the priest has come? Has he dropped from the sky? (laughter) That's it. Everyone can say, "My dear priest, you hear me. Don't talk of yourself. You hear me." Everyone can say. Then? How things will be adjusted? The priest is also a man; I am also man. If he can say like that, I can say like that. Then who will make adjustment? Who is correct? Hm? How it will be adjusted? If everyone will propose something, and who will say, "Now, out of so many proposals, this is correct." That means chaotic condition. If everyone says, "What I say, you hear." Then who will hear? Everyone will say only. Who will hear? That is going on actually. And rascal Vivekananda says, "Everyone's opinion is good."

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is Brahmānanda's opinion?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, he's never been to Durban.

Cyavana: There's no one here who's been to both places.

Prabhupāda: You did not go to Mombassa?

Cyavana: Mombassa I have been, but not Durban. So you will have to judge. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's many mosquitoes in Mombassa, isn't it?

Cyavana: I don't know.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And malaria. That you don't find. No? When I went to the innoculation center and I said I was going to Kenya, they gave us both malaria tablets. They said, "Take one a week." That's true. But you don't find malaria in Durban. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian boy (2): Creation, how... About the creation. I have read it from Bible too, about Adam and Eve. Do you think that it's true?

Prabhupāda: What is the idea of Adam?

Indian boy (2): God has created him.

Prabhupāda: So the same process is mentioned in Vedas. God created Brahmā, and he created this universe.

Indian boy (2): All which we can see on the earth have been created by...

Prabhupāda: Brahmā.

Indian boy (2): Brahmā. Who is Brahmā?

Prabhupāda: Brahmā is the first creature in the universe, created by God. He came from the navel.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (2): With due respect, I want to know what is the line of demarcation between science and religion.

Prabhupāda: Science means which is applicable to everyone. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a kind of faith." Faith... I may be Hindu today; tomorrow I may be Christian. That is... I can change.

Indian man (2): But this is not the definition of true religion.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not talking of religion. I am talking of science. Religion is a kind of faith. You may be believe or you may not believe.

Indian man (2): No. There is no question of belief. The question is whether, what is the difference between religion and science? If difference is known, then the learned persons(?) can make him right or wrong at that time, but unless and until the demarcation of line between religion and science...

Prabhupāda: Now... Yes, that we can say like this, that "two plus two equal to four"—this is applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian, everyone. This is science.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: What about some of the other schools that have grown up, people like Ouspensky and Gurdjieff and people who've brought a message similar to yours to the West in the past?

Prabhupāda: What we have to study particularly whether it is standard. Otherwise they may speak so many things, but if they do not know what is the standard... Just like medical science or any science, that is one. It cannot be different because it is spoken by different men. That is not one. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four"—this is a science that is true everywhere, not that because it is spoken by somebody else it becomes "two plus two equal to five" or "three." No. That is...

Faill: No. Some other people, do you feel, possibly have had the truth as well, have they?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to say.

Faill: Yes. Unless you studied it in detail.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless I study, it is very difficult to say because there are so many bluffers, so many.

Faill: Just doing it for money.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. It is going on like that. They have no standard method. We are presenting the standard method. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. As it is, without any malinterpretation, we are presenting as it is. This is standard.

Car ride from Durban to Johannesburg -- October 13, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are challenging the authority.

Prabhupāda: There is no authority. And Vivekananda said, "You manufacture your own God, whomever you like. Even you can worship stool as God." They say like that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now the Indian government—if this is true—they are giving visas to the devotees, and that means they are favorable towards the movement more and more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It may be due to my interview with Indira Gandhi. I appealed to her that "No Indians are joining, and these Europeans, Americans, they are helping me. And if they are asked to go away, then how shall I maintain the establishment? Indians are not coming." So they might have studied that "They are not politician, and this movement... Everyone will appreciate God consciousness. They are doing something," this consideration. Otherwise it is surprising. They have given three years.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Many, many. All these realty business. Realty business, you know?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Realty.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent of them are mischievous. I have got experience. Seventy-five percent, they are simply mischievously planning—you have got five thousand or ten thousand dollar—to take it away, showing you that you are getting 200,000 worth of property. In this way they make implication, take your ten thousand dollar, and then finished. Many cases. Their only business is this. Big, big lawyer implicated. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina. Go to a lawyer; immediately you are implicated. You see, this man is condemned, Nixon, and he is to pay the lawyer's bill by working hard, by writing a book and selling the good will to some company. He has to pay the lawyer's bill. He has no money. The lawyers, doctors, as soon as they get some opportunity, immediately captures you and finish-bas. How to take away all your money. Because artificially they have enhanced the standard of living, they want money. So unless they do mischievous activity, by honest means they cannot get money.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is true.

Prabhupāda: And materially advanced for committing suicide. Am I right or wrong?

Devotee (1): Right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one wants to increase the material standard of living, then they should increase also sex life. And this is what they are doing in India today.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body. That means they do not know what is life. And as soon as the life is gone, the body is there—they cannot explain. This is their ignorance. Why the life is stopped? And they are very proud of advancement. And bring in life again. That they cannot do. That means the whole basic principle is ignorance.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We challenge them like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then why you are talking nonsense that there is no life? Why you are depending on other life for giving you the egg? So this theory that life comes from chemical, so where it is true? Life is coming from the ... a life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they say that life is simply a combination of chemicals.

Prabhupāda: So do it now. It is not difficult. You can see the egg's chemical, and just combine little chemicals and put it in the incubator. Let life come. Hm? What is your answer? The advocate speaks.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian woman: So you come in my life. Before that time I was only forty-eight years.

Prabhupāda: So now the older section of the Indians, they should give up their family life and live in this temple, cultivate this spiritual life and preach. You see. There will be very nice relationship.

Indian woman: Everyone, every state, this is true. Sometimes I go to preaching. I not looking "Asian," or such and such. Anyone I go to preach.

Prabhupāda: We are all part and parcel of God. The outward dress only makes difference that "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am this." Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Therefore one who is learned, he does not make that difference. That is accidental, that by... You can say acci... That is also not accidental, but some way or other, it has become so. The dress is different. But our movement is not with the dress but with the living being who has the dress. This is movement. Our, this is completely spiritual movement.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian man (4): They likes their lunch. They goes for lunch. Yes, that's true. All of them went without asking me. About five, six devotees, immediately from here went to Swami Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: So this should be rectified.

Indian man (4): And their theory is that... I asked Pramukh Swami that "Why you have put this? Why you say to your disciple that we should not see the face of the woman?" He said that, "We should avoid." But I said, "Well, okay, when you are walking on the road automatically you will see the ladies." He said, "We turn our face to one side." I said, "First you have seen the woman. Then you are turning." (laughter) "You will look further. You have not seen the women. You have no sense, you know."

Prabhupāda: These are all bogus things. One should train himself that matravāt para-dareṣu, all women, "my mother." Then it will be possible to live... Therefore the etiquette is to address every woman, "Ma, ma, mother." That is the etiquette.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: If other fellows say any damn thing, that does not mean... Even though he may be a Nobel Prize winner, that does not mean that he is really a true scientist. He may be all right. He is looking through a long narrow tube in his own subject, a specialist. I have my definition about a specialist is a one who sees through long narrow tube and he got this much vision of the horizon. Such a man may be saying like this to you. I don't think we should deride that science... Scientists are trying to approach God through their own way, sir. That is what I think.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: That doesn't matter if you call them "rascal" or no rascal, but that is their way. That's all. Our way is this; their way may be that. We must not... By many...

Prabhupāda: No, no. God says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupāda: How you can manufacture your own way? That is rascal.

Dr. Patel: But that is their bhakti.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That...

Dr. Patel: How can you say that? You may call them "rascal." Doesn't matter to them. But then that is their way, sir.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes... That is obstinacy.

Dr. Patel: That... Obstinacy or no obstinacy, that is their way. That's all. Truth has to be understood.

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand God in your own way. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be many ways.

Dr. Patel: You see, our sad-darśana. The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the modern science. The Vaiśeṣikas also wanted, were going in search of God by their own way, were they not? The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the physics and chemistry and mathematics, in true sense. (Hindi) Sad-darśana. Vaiśeṣika is one of the recognized darśanas of our ancient, glorious past. I think I am not wrong, sir, in that way. You will pardon me if I say, and I mean, press my point further.

Prabhupāda: No, you will say it is in your own way, even if it is wrong...

Dr. Patel: No, no. These are Vaiśeṣikas. They are Vaisesikas. Sudras you may call them, but Vaiśeṣika-śāstra was also found out by ancient civilized Indians in search of God.

Prabhupāda: No...

Dr. Patel: And the physics, chemistry, biology, science...

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa was the greatest civilized man, but he is considered as rākṣasa.

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I cannot correct you.

Dr. Patel: You? You cannot be correct...? Why I should not be corrected? Because the philosophy must encompass the whole life, not a part of it. All Western philosophers, only except Schopenhauer and Eckhart, they only thought about the waking stage. They have never thought about the dream and the deep sleep stage and the stage beyond the three. None of them, excepting Eckhart of Germany. So the Western philosophers are all wrong or partially true. (break) The Western philosophers have never thought about the three other stages, none of them.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...philosophy rejects any philosophy based on thinking.

Dr. Patel: But you see thinking is an apparatus which takes you beyond thinking.

Prabhupāda: That is another.

Dr. Patel: That takes you beyond thinking. You cannot go beyond thinking without thinking to be taken as a fact.

Prabhupāda: But thinking must be intelligent thinking.

Dr. Patel: But thinking is always...

Prabhupāda: Foolish thinking has no value. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhya para mana manasas tu parā buddhir (BG 3.42). So thinking should be under the direction of intelligence.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The cow from... Gao from cow, and cow from gao. No? It is absolutely not..., so very easy.

Prabhupāda: We are Kṛṣṇian, and they are Christian. There is similarity.

Dr. Patel: Nomenclature. Christ was really a bhāgavata, I mean, in a true sense.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.

Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.

Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...

Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...

Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.

Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: By trance.

Dr. Patel: When he... On the cross they say he uttered, "Father, don't forsake me." That is the time he went into trance most probably. Eh? He must have gone in trance when he uttered the last words, "Father, don't forsake me." And then when he was brought down in the lap of his mother and they took him in the cave, no? Under the guard of those Italian soldiers. Then there was a big hurricane or something like that and they all ran away. And after that he was smuggled away from that place. Christ has rebuilt his father's temple in true sense, the way he spread the Christianity. The churches have degenerated in his teaching, unfortunately. It is the church. That happens with every, in every, I mean, these things, teachings. Race, this race is very bold, indeed, that God choicest race, these Jews, somehow or other.

Prabhupāda: Jews?

Dr. Patel: Really, it is God's choicest race. (laughter) They have produced wonderful people right from Christ up to Professor Einstein, very bold people, very bold indeed. They are truthful to their convictions. They would die for their convictions but they will not, I mean, budge an inch.

Brahmānanda: But they're impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Very brave. Very brave race.

Brahmānanda: They are impersonalists.

Dr. Patel: Today still, those people really very brave. Very brave. It is the choicest race from God. It's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda is very much pleased. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Akṣayānanda: Research and research but still don't know.

Prabhupāda: (break) If one is fool, where is the question of searching out? If he has got the right knowledge, why there should be searching? Searching means he is not in knowledge. (break)

Harikeśa: It may be true that we have no knowledge, but we don't think we need God to...

Prabhupāda: "Maybe" means rascal. As soon as you say "maybe," you are a rascal, immediately. There is no other argument. As soon as you say "maybe," that means you are a rascal.

Harikeśa: Well, definitely we don't know.

Prabhupāda: Therefore rascal. (laughter) Therefore rascal. We definitely know Kṛṣṇa, the origin of everything. That is definite, not "It may be." We don't say "Kṛṣṇa may be." No. Definitely. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Here is Bhagavān. Here is God. That is definite. Therefore our professor...

Haṁsadūta: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Who has written foreword to my Bhagavad-gītā?

Harikeśa: Dimmock.

Prabhupāda: Dimmock. "Here is definitive..."

Haṁsadūta: Version.

Nitai: "Definitive edition."

Prabhupāda: "Definitive edition." That is the credit. Not "may be." No "maybe," sir. That is rascaldom.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: So this was the philosophy of Machiavelli, that "Might makes right."

Prabhupāda: But Machiavelli also does not know who is the proprietor. That is the defect. Machiavelli also does not know. He's also another fool. So long you do not know who is the proprietor, then...

Harikeśa: But it's true. Might does make right.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice. The king, you can take twenty-five mounds. That is my obligation." And king is also satisfied. By distributing that grain, he maintains the whole government.