Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasures, so sometimes this, sometimes that. . . Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all. This way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca. . . And then you'll take again to civilized way of. . . I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example: stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the. . . That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam (SB 2.10.6). This is anyathā rūpam, a living being, being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyāga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore we call them mūḍha, rascals. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "When you become spiritually realized, then prasannātmā, happiness." Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side—there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhūtaḥ, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannātmā, immediately. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). That is the. . .
Satsvarūpa: But should this be forced on people if they don't want it?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Satsvarūpa: If a large section of the people don't want spiritual life, that's their. . .
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot force. That is not possible, because he has got independence. You cannot force. You can simply give him knowledge. Therefore to distribute knowledge is the best welfare activities, not this material so-called happiness, daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and this seva, that seva. That will not make them happy. If you give them knowledge, then they will be really benefited. Otherwise not.
Brahmānanda: How do we give knowledge to the common masses of people?
Prabhupāda: Yes, by saṅkīrtana. By hearing, hearing, hearing—this is a medicinal process—the heart will be cleansed and they will take up the knowledge. Now the heart is unclean, so he cannot take up. So this is the medicine. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer. . . (CC Adi 17.21). Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra wherever possible, and whoever will hear, he will gradually become cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). And then bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. . . Then his material pangs will be over. This is the only medicine. Therefore chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Some way or other, let them have the chance of hearing, and then it will act as medicine. Even he does not will, you chant, you let him hear by force, and he will be cured.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes you say only a very small percentage can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But yesterday morning in your lecture you were saying it can expand to ten thousand, million, or ten million.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you take the proper way it can be increased.