Not this rascaldom, daridra-nārāyaṇa. Just like one rascal has manufactured this daridra-nārāyaṇa. The poor man has become Nārāyaṇa, and the goat Nārāyaṇa is killed for their feeding. Not this kind of sādhu. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. A sādhu will not allow any kind of killing. See in the Christian religion, it is first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." If you want to become religious... They are simply killing, and still, they are claiming "Christian." What kind of Christian? Simply their business is killing. So it is very difficult to find out a Christian, although they are claiming, I am "Christian." It is very difficult. Because their business is killing. And Lord Jesus Christ ordered, first order is, "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not covet." Who is following?
Thou shalt not kill (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Imperfect knowledge. Or making adjustment for their own benefit. Now they are making correction: "Thou shalt not kill," "Thou shalt not murder." That means it will come to human being. But the actual commandment is "Thou shalt not kill." But these Christian people, they are making some amendment, "Thou shalt not murder." Because murder will apply to the killing of human beings. But Lord Jesus Christ never said like that. "Thou shalt not kill." It is applicable both for human being and for animal or even for trees. Unnecessarily you cannot kill. That is sādhu. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). "Don't kill my brother, but you can kill my neighbors." Not like that. He is not sādhu. Sādhu is kind to all living entities.
We talk with sometimes with Christian gentlemen, and when we inquire that "Lord Christ says 'Thou shalt not kill'; why you are killing?" they give evidence that "Christ also ate meat sometimes." Sometimes Christ ate meat, that's all right, but did Christ say that "You maintain big, big slaughterhouse and go on eating meat?" There is no common sense even. Christ might have eaten. Sometimes he... If there was no, nothing available for eating, what could you do? That is another question. In great necessity, when there is no other food except taking meat... That time is coming.
Girl devotee: Is Jesus in the paramparā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He says, "There is God. I am son of God." That is paramparā. Yes. Unfortunately nobody cares to follow Jesus Christ. That I must say. Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill," and Christians are very expert to kill. (laughter) They take pride in bullfighting. This is the position. So it is very difficult to find out a real Christian.
They do not know what is the goal of life. Manda. Manda means "bad." And sumanda-matayaḥ. And if some of them, just to become little recognized as very religious, he will accept some rascal as guru, magician, and eat everything, do everything, and become spiritualist, and his rascal guru will say, "Yes, you can eat anything. You can do anything. Religion has nothing to do with eating." It is going on. The Christian people, it is explicitly, clearly said, "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing. Still, they are very much proud, "I am Christian." And what kind of Christian you are? You are regularly disobeying the order of Christ, and still you are Christian?
Kṛṣṇa says that if one thinks that "This man has killed this man," so, or "This man can kill this man," this kind of knowledge is not perfect. Nobody kills nobody. Then the butchers, they may say that "Then why do you complain that we are killing?" They're killing the body, but you cannot kill when there is injunction "Thou shall not kill." That means you cannot kill the body even without sanction. You cannot kill. Although the soul is not killed, the body is killed, still you cannot kill the body without sanction. That is sinful.
Any scripture. Take your Bible, take Koran, take Vedas. There are some prescribed duties. Just like in your Bible, there are ten commandments. "Thou shall not kill." So for whom? One who is not self-realized, one who is self-realized that "I am part and parcel of the Supreme God, everyone is part and parcel of the Supreme God and human being, animal, ant, aquatic, beasts, birds, every living entity is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord,"... That is self-realization. Then how can you kill? If everyone is part and parcel, son of the Supreme, how can you kill your brother? This is self-realization.
The hunter was taking pleasure in killing animals half dead, and when he was self-realized, he was hesitating to kill even an ant. You see? Why? Self-realized. So he has no prescribed duties. To him you haven't got to say, "Thou shall not kill." He will automatically not kill because he is self-realized. Self-realized person does not do any harm to anyone because he knows everyone in relationship with the Supreme. His central point is Kṛṣṇa.
In your Christian religion also, it is clearly stated, "Thou shall not kill." But who is caring for that? Nobody is caring. They are killing. That killing process is increasing, and there is reaction also. Every ten years you will find one war, killing process upon you. How you can avoid? There must be reaction. You cannot violate the laws of God.
Jesus Christ said, "You shall not kill." Why you are killing?
Translator: But then why did he eat fish?
Prabhupāda: He can eat the whole world, but you cannot do that. You must follow his instruction, "Thou shall not kill." You must have discrimination. You are human beings; you are not cats and dogs. You must have discrimination, what to eat, what to not eat. Because we have to eat some other living entity, it does not mean that I shall eat my sons and daughters.
You may be a Christian, you may be a Muhammadan, you may be a Hindu, or Buddhist. It doesn't matter, whatever you may be. Whether you are abiding by the orders of God. Then you are religious. Not that God, or God's representative says: "Thou shalt not kill." And I go on killing in the slaughterhouse. And when asked why I am killing, I give my, some interpretation of my own.
Yes, yes. We do not say that don't read Bible. Read something, but learn something. Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." You learn this art. But you read Bible and kill animals, then what is your benefit?
Even Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was the son of Hiraṇyakaśipu. The relationship was father and son, but because the son was a devotee, the father was prepared to kill him. This is the system all over the world. Jesus Christ, because he was preaching God consciousness, he was crucified. Although Jesus Christ preached, "Thou shall not kill," unfortunately he was preaching in such a society that he was killed. So these things are there always.
Those who are lower grade living entities, there... This is the struggle. One living entity is the food for another living entity. That is lower grade life. In the higher grade life, no, they cannot kill anyone for eating purposes. Therefore in the Bible the First Commandment is "Thou shalt not kill." But all these Christians, they are violating the First Commandment.
Everywhere, the living entities are there, and Kṛṣṇa has made provision for every one of them. There is no question of scarcity. But people are not obeying the orders of Kṛṣṇa or the authorities, that "You produce..." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Even in Bible, it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." They are not producing food grains, and they are killing the animals and eating.
Just like in the Bible, the first injunction is "Thou shall not kill." This means the people were, in those days, at least people who were all around Christ, they were very much expert in killing. Otherwise why he says first, "Thou shall not kill"? So this injunction must be followed. Unfortunately they first of all killed Jesus Christ: "You are speaking 'Thou shall not kill'? I shall kill you." Just see. This is the position. "So what is my fault? You want to kill me?" "Because you are speaking of God, therefore we shall kill you." And actually it actually happened. This is demonic.
Because you are not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are discriminating in this way, that the human society should be given protection, the animal society should be slaughtered. Is that very good? Is that good consciousness? Just like the Christian people say that the animals have no soul—because they want to eat meat. Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill."
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So in the human society the first thing is that there must be religion, and religion means pious life. Every religion... Just like Christian religion teaches pious life: "Thou shall not kill." And I am killing twenty-four hours, and still, I am proud of becoming a Christian. Just see. So religion means pious life. And on pious life, you earn your livelihood. Although your livelihood is already fixed up, your provision for living condition is already fixed up, still, because you think that "Without working, I cannot live nicely," all right, economic development. But because first of all your life is religious, because you are living pious, then you can earn your livelihood according to your different status.
This dharma, this kind, religious, the Bhāgavata religion, is so perfect, that all kinds of cheating types of religion is kicked out from it. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ. They are not accepted, all cheating types of religion. There are so many religious..., not perfect knowledge even. Even they disobey... They cannot without disobeying. Because it cannot train people to the perfection, they remain defective always. Big, big priests, big, big cardinals. What they are doing? They are simply disobeying. Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill," so they are simply eating meat. That's all. "No intoxicants"; they are taking. They cannot be trained up. Even though so-called priests and the..., they are not trained up. They cannot take it up. Therefore Bhāgavata principle is so nice that little training... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Little training. Even the most fallen can be elevated to the highest position. This is Bhāgavatam. Perfect. Purāṇa-guhyam.
If civilization is based on religious life, it doesn't matter what religion he belongs to, he is elevated. Any religion. And therefore I ask the Christians that Lord Christ says that "Thou shall not kill," why you are killing? They give some vague explanation. But actually a real Christian is as good as a real Hindu, as a real Muslim—if he follows. No religion is bad. We don't say. But the first-class religion is that... That is explained here: sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Every religion teaches how to love God more or less.
It is our request to everyone: Please do not commit these four kinds of sinful activities—illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling and intoxication. This is the preliminary qualification to understand God. Especially one must not kill animals. The Bible also.Therefore it is said, "Thou shalt not kill. You rascal, if you want to understand what is God, you must stop this killing art. Thou shalt not kill." But these rascals will not understand.
So many people question in the Western countries, "Whether one can attain perfection by following Christian religion?" Why not? You can also attain. But who is following? First of all, let me see who is following Christian religion. The Christian religion says in the beginning, first commandment, "Thou shalt not kill," and you are simply killing. So where is Christian? Christian religion is not bad. No religion is bad. But where is Christian? Where is Hindu? They are all godless rascals. Therefore there is misunderstanding. Otherwise, if everyone is God conscious, if everyone knows that God is present everywhere, "Whatever I do, He will see.
A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not distinguish like that. For eating animal, they will philosophize that animal has no soul; therefore it can be killed. No. This is nonsense. Everyone has got soul. Even a small ant has got soul. But they have to kill. They have to eat. They are philosophizing different way. Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill," and now they are interpreting, "Killing means murdering human being." But that is not in the Bible.
You cannot be a Christian if you violate the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. But they are doing so. Now the Christian priests... We had a meeting in Sydney. One priest asked me, "What we have done that they are not anymore caring for us?" I told him that "You are always violating the ten commandments, and you say what you have done? Lord Jesus Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' and you are killing, expert in killing. And you are still Christian? So you cannot understand what you have done? You have always misguided people." I told him. So he was not very happy to hear this straight answer. (laughter) But he admitted...
I told you sometimes, I think, in New York Airport. So seeing us, the sādhus, one young man came to me. So he introduced himself, "Sir, I am Christian. I faithfully discharge my religious principles." So I, I told him, "No, no. You do not faithfully discharge your religion." So he was surprised that without talking with him, immediately I charged that "You don't follow your Christian religion." "No, why do you say like that?" "Do you eat meat?" "Yes, sir." "Then you are not a Christian. You are not a Christian. Because in the Christian religion the first commandment is 'Thou shalt not kill.' So you are encouraging killing. How you are a Christian? You are not a Christian." The actually everyone is very proud of becoming Christian, Hindu, Muslim, but nobody is following. Nobody's following. All bogus.
When a man becomes actually learned, he's sama-darśī. He sees everyone on the equal level. I was seeing just this evening the Ten Commandments. Now, in the Ten Commandments, the one commandment is that "Thou shall not kill." But I am sorry to feel that killing propensity is so great in the Christian world. Why? Because there is lack of love of God. "Thou shall not kill." Now there is organized killing process. So I do not know how they are following the Christian principles. It is clearly stated, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not tease your neighbor." So why should I tease an animal neighbor? These defects are due to lack of love of God.
To understand Kṛṣṇa it takes little time. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). So Kṛṣṇa revealed Himself in India before Arjuna, and what the others will understand about Kṛṣṇa unless he's advanced like Arjuna? So there are different persons, so different types of religion they have revealed. That is also Kṛṣṇa—but, to some extent. The full extent they cannot understand. Just like Lord Jesus Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Just imagine what the audience were. They are killers. So what they'll understand about Kṛṣṇa? Let them first stop this killing. Then the stage will come he'll understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
In the battlefield the commander-in-chief orders, "Yes, you kill and get gold medal." But if you think the, "I have killed so many persons in the battlefield. Here is my enemy. I kill him." No. That you cannot do. That you cannot do. This is the principle. When there is duty, that is another thing. But not whimsically. We cannot kill. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill." This is the order. "Thou shall not kill." But we are violating the order. We are killing so many animals. So this is not good. On the plea that "Lord Christ sometimes took some fish somewhere; therefore we will have to maintain a big slaughterhouse," this is not very good logic.
Just like Lord Jesus Christ, Vaiṣṇava. For others' suffering he agreed to be crucified. But the followers are so unfaithful, they have settled up that "Let Christ suffer for us, and let us go on committing sin." Very good conclusion. They love Christ so, that "My dear Christ, you suffer for our sinful activities and let us go on with our sinful activities." Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." They decided, "Let us kill on and on, and open scientific slaughterhouse. And if there is any sin, then Christ will suffer. That's all. He has taken the agency on suffering." Very good conclusion. No. The Vaiṣṇava can take the sufferings for you, but you should be sane, that "Why I shall put such and such Vaiṣṇava into suffering for my sinful activity? Let me stop this sinful activity." That is intelligent.
We are committing so many sinful activities. We are committing so many sinful activities. Just like in the Western countries they are killing so many birds and beasts, especially cows, thousands and thousands. They are all becoming implicated. You have no right. Even Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill."
So people do not believe even in the next life, and what to speak of atonement and punishment. They are kept in darkness. Otherwise they would have been... If they would have followed actually the injunction of the śāstras... First of all one should not be killing anyone. In the Bible also it is said, "Thou shall not kill." Why it is forbidden? Because if he kills, he'll have to suffer. But they do not care for it. Therefore they suffer.
The tree has taken birth. The man has taken birth. Why simply man should be saved, not the cows, not the trees? (break) He must be saved. This is the government's duty. Unnecessarily there cannot be any killing. Lord Christ also, "Thou shall not kill." Yes, this is the beginning of religious life. If you are accustomed to kill somebody, either man, animal, trees, fish, anything, there is no entrance in religious life. There is no entrance because everyone, every living entity, is son of God.
The laws of nature are very subtle. They are very diligently administered. People do not know it. So on the whole, the Manu-saṁhitā, life for life is sanctioned. And that is practically observed all over the world. But similarly, there are other laws, that you cannot kill even an ant. Then you are responsible. You have no right to kill. And in the Bible also, we see, Lord Jesus Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." So killing is not allowed in any religious principle. Anyone who is killing, he's not considered in the human society. You cannot kill. The... Lord Buddha's also principle is ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, no killing. Lord Jesus Christ also says, "Thou shalt not kill." In our Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā (BG 13.8). Ahiṁsā means not to become violent, not to kill.
There cannot be defect in God-made laws. God-made law, if you kill an animal, you are equally punishable as you kill a man. That is God's law. There is no excuse that he..., when you kill a man you are punishable, but when you kill an animal you are not punishable. This is concoction. This is not perfect law. Perfect law. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ prescribes in the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not kill." That is perfect law. Not that you shall discriminate that "I shall not kill man, but I shall kill animals." This is cheating one's self. The God laws will not excuse.
śruta means hearing from authoritative sources, either you take a scripture or lawbook. So one knows that in every śāstra, every scripture, every lawbook, man is warned: "Don't commit theft; you'll be punished. Don't tell lie; you'll be punished. Don't do this; you'll be punished. Don't kill. Thou shalt not kill. Otherwise, you'll be punished." But nobody's caring.
One must be repentant for his sinful activities. One must know what are sinful activities. Apart from any other scripture, in Christian scripture it is said, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this." These are sinful activities. Otherwise why it is forbidden.
Lord Jesus Christ is so tolerant that he was crucified; still, he did not curse anybody. This is sādhu: titikṣavaḥ, tolerant. The very great example of tolerance, Christ, Jesus Christ. So similarly, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. There are many saintly persons, sādhu, who were very tolerant. So first qualification of sādhu is titikṣavaḥ. Titikṣavaḥ and kāruṇikāḥ: at the same time, kind. These two examples we find in the character of Lord Jesus Christ. He was being crucified, and still he was praying to God, "My Lord, they do not know what they are doing." Did he not?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. And he was persecuted, and still, he was kind. He was kind. Still, he was praying to God that "These rascals are doing. They cannot kill me, but they are thinking that I will be killed. So they are committing offense." So this is toleration, and kāruṇikāḥ. Similarly, there are many examples. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ, and suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām: (SB 3.25.21) friend of all living entities. Lord Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." He never said that... Now they are interpreting in a different way: "The animal has no soul, and you can kill animals and keep slaughterhouse." So who is a Christian? I do not know who is a Christian. They profess to be Christian. It is very difficult to find out a true Christian who is strictly following the words of Lord Jesus Christ. So he is a good example of sādhu.
Just try to follow the four principles as we have prescribed: no intoxication, no gambling, no illicit sex, and no meat-eating. That's all. This is goodness. This is goodness. These prohibitions are there. Why? Just to keep you in goodness. In every religion... Now, in the Ten Commandments also, I see that "Thou shall not kill." The same thing is there, but people are not obeying. That is a different thing.
The government says, "Don't steal." The śāstra, scriptures, they also say, "Don't drink. Don't steal. Don't do this. Don't." All forbidden. But I steal. So that is sva-karmabhiḥ. There is forbidding everywhere, but still, I steal. Then whose fault it is? It is government's fault or my fault? If I kill, I'll be hanged. "Thou shall not kill." Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But if I kill, then I must suffer. But they say, give some false argument, "Lord Christ says, 'Thou shall not kill' and if I kill, Christ has taken the contract that whatever sinful activities we do, he will excuse." This is Christian document.
He'll not touch even anything. Even valuable jewel is lying on the street, a paṇḍita will say, "I shall not touch it." This is a moral education. And ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. Ātmavat. If you feel some pain by pinching, why should you pinch others? And that is paṇḍita. If you cry when your throat is cut with a knife, why you should slaughter other animals? Therefore Lord Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." But these people are so uneducated. In spite of their Ph.D.s, they have no, this simple education, that "I suffer when I am killed. Why I shall kill others?"
Without being devotee a man will become cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, in this way go to hell. And devotee cannot tolerate. We have studied in the life of Lord Jesus Christ. When he saw that in the Jewish synagogue the birds were being killed, he became shocked. He therefore left. Jes... He inaugurated the Christian religion. Perhaps you know. He was shocked by this animal-killing. And therefore his first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But the foolish Christians, instead of following his instruction, they are opening daily slaughterhouse.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Unless one is very expert in killing animals, he's not bereft from Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That means one who is very expert in killing, he cannot understand. Therefore Christ also said, "Thou shall not kill," the first business. Nobody will be able if one is a killer of animal, small or big, ultimately killer of his own children, killer of his own self. The killing process is so nice that it goes up to the point of killing one's children. That is now happening.
Festival Lectures
Scriptures are also different. Because scriptures are made according to time, circumstances, people. Just like Bible. Bible Lord Jesus Christ preached in the desert, Jerusalem. Or where it is? People who were not so advanced. Therefore his first instruction is "Thou shall not kill." That means they were very much engaged in killing affairs; otherwise, why is this instruction? And actually, it so happened that they killed Jesus Christ. So that society was not very enlightened society. So a scripture for a society which is not very enlightened and a scripture for a society which is very enlightened must be different.
Initiation Lectures
People have become so sinful that they have no consideration that "I am going to kill my mother. I am so ungrateful that the mother who supplied her blood to feed me, to keep me living, now I am grown-up, I am going to kill my mother." This is my advancement of education, that "I have learned how to kill my mother." Therefore, in every religion the killing is prohibited or very much restricted. So in your Christian religion, the first item is, "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is violating this first commandment.
General Lectures
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The law in the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." But the federal law of the United States says you must go into the Army and kill. So which to follow? There is a difference. They both say opposite things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The thing is... It is very simple to understand that... Just like a soldier is killing and the state is awarding him medal. And the same soldier when comes home, if he kills somebody, he's hanged. Why? He can say, "When I was in the war field, I have killed hundreds of men and I was given gold medal. And now I have killed simply one man I am going to be hanged? Why?" So it is the cause. If the cause if great, then killing is no sin.
Young man (5): How does one interpret if the cause is great?
Prabhupāda: By satisfy... That I have already explained. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). You have to see whether God is satisfied. That cause is great. Perfection of your activity will be judged whether by your action God is satisfied.
God says... For the time being you are not in direct touch with God, but you can follow the Biblical instruction. God's agent, Lord Jesus Christ, says—you follow that. The ten commandments are there. Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So you should not kill. Why should you kill? You follow this instruction, God's representative. Then you gradually develop your God consciousness.
The definition of "native" means one who has taken birth in that land. That is called native. So the cow is also native. So why this law, that for the benefit of the human being, the cow should be slaughtered? And he is giving milk; he is working for you. What is this philosophy? In Christian religion it is clearly stated, "Thou shalt not kill." And most of the slaughterhouses are in the Christian countries. Why? This is all misunderstanding of spiritual life.
According to Vedic civilization, cow is to be given all protection. The Hindus or followers of the Vedic religion, why they are interested to give protection to the cows, not to the..., not so much to the other animals? And Lord Christ is more liberal. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." He does not name any animal's name. Every animal. Every animal should be given protection. That is also the Vedic idea.
We should not be concerned with the dress. We should be concerned what is there within the dress. That is knowledge. That is knowledge. So it is a science, and the science is very nicely described in all scriptures, especially Bhagavad-gītā. So as a human being, we have got this privilege, to understand, to go to the right person to take the meaning. Meaning is very clear, but we create some mismeaning. That is another thing. Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." It is very clear and simple thing, but we make some interpretation, "This, that, this." Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Don't make the meaning perverted. Take it as it is. Then you become perfect. "Thou shalt not kill"—if you take this as it is, then you become perfect. But if you add your own meaning and go on killing and still you become a Christian, that is your business.
Yes. As he advises. Just like he says, "Thou shalt not kill." But if you kill, at the same time take shelter of Christ, what is the meaning? First of all you try to follow him; then you can go through him. But you don't care for him—what is the meaning of go through him?
Yes. No one is a perfect. Therefore you should take lessons from the perfect. That's all. Then you become perfect. Otherwise why there are instructions just like Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That means "You are imperfect; therefore you are killing. Take my instruction. Don't do it. You become perfect." That's all. We are all imperfect. We have to take lesson from the perfect. Then we become perfect. Yes?
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Philosophy means that there is some order of God. Just like God says "Thou shall not kill." Now if you want to kill, then you must present your philosophy why you are killing, why you are violating the order of God, or why you are accepting the order of God. This is philosophy, not dry speculation.
Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is highest because it can...
Prabhupāda: It is highest. But now God says, "Thou shalt not kill." Then you stop killing. That's all right, be religious but did you understand?
Śyāmasundara: He says that acting in accordance with a conscience is the right type of activity.
Prabhupāda: The conscience, the so-called conscience is created. You go on killing, your conscience will be killing conscience, "It is all right." The thief becomes accustomed to steal, the conscience will say, "Yes, I must steal. It is my right." So you can create your conscience in that way. By association, by misguiding, they also create their conscience. Just like the Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are killing, creating a conscience, "Yes, killing is all right." In the religion it is forbidden, "Thou shalt not kill," but they are creating another conscience, "It is right." The conscience is created by association. By good association, conscience is the good conscience and by bad association, a bad conscience is created. So there is no such standard as conscience. Conscience means discriminating power.
Śyāmasundara: That rule is, "Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you." That is the golden rule, this rule of the utilitarians.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are not following. They are killing, but when he is to be killed, he goes away. But he does not think that "I don't want to be killed. Why shall I kill?" And Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But they do not abide by this, and still they will call themselves Christians. Who wants to be killed? Nobody wants. Then why you are killing other animals? Where is your philosophy?
Śyāmasundara: So this philosopher Bergson, he sees two types of morality. The "closed morality," which is the compulsive forms of behavior, which conform to prevailing convention or social pressure or tradition; static morality, one simply follows the tradition blindly.
Prabhupāda: That can be changed according to the... Just like in some scriptures it is said that "Thou shall not kill." So the killing is ordinary thing there. But in some society killing is already prohibited by so much culture that they do not want to kill even an ant. So that depends on education of the particular society. It is not static, that "This will be like this." No. Not like that. "One man's food another man's poison." What is morality in one society, it may be immorality in another society.
Prabhupāda: That's also good, but Christian morality, who is abiding by Christian morality? The Christian morality, in the beginning it is said "Thou shalt not kill," and they're all killing. So it will be very difficult to find out a real Christian who is following the morality. "Thou shalt not covet," and they're doing all this nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Thou shall not kill." Where Kṛṣṇa has said, "Thou shall not kill."
Śyāmasundara: Well, he tells Arjuna...
Prabhupāda: Arjuna. Other words(?) is not for you. Why do you say Kṛṣṇa says to kill?
Śyāmasundara: No, I'm saying that...
Prabhupāda: That is our—Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can order anything He likes, but you have to carry out Kṛṣṇa's order. If Kṛṣṇa says you to kill, then you can kill. You cannot say that "Kṛṣṇa has said to Arjuna to kill, therefore I shall kill."
Hayagrīva: Well, this..., thinking in this way Augustine writes, he says, "We do not apply 'Thou shalt not kill' to plants, because they have no sensation, or to irrational animals that fly, swim, walk or creep, because they are linked to us by no association or common bond. By the creator's wise ordinance they are meant for our use, dead or alive. It only remains for us to apply the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' to man alone, oneself and others." So...
Prabhupāda: So that is imagination of Augustine. But Jesus Christ does not say such qualitative killing. He says frankly, "Thou shalt not kill." When he says that, he means, "You should not kill." But when there is absolute necessity, just like he says that "One life is food for the another life..." Does he not say it like that?
Hayagrīva: He says, uh... (break) He says..., this is, this is Augustine writing. He said, "Some people try to stretch the prohibition 'Thou shalt not kill' to cover beasts and cattle and make it unlawful to kill any such animal, but then why not include plants and anything rooted in and feeding on the soil? After all, things like this, though devoid of feeling, are said to have life and therefore can die and so be killed by violent treatment."
Prabhupāda: No, that is not Vedic philosophy. Vedic philosophy admits that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is natural.
Hayagrīva: Mortal sin. A mortal sin would be a breaking of one of the direct commandments of God given in the Bible, such as "Thou shall not kill."
Prabhupāda: So anyway, we also have similar passage, that kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare. This is mortal sins, when the living entity disobeys the order of God, he is put into this material world, and that is his punishment. And he either rectifies himself by good association or he continues this transmigration one body after another and suffers this tribulations of material existence.
| Page Title: | Thou shalt not kill (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, ChandrasekharaAcarya, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 02 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=60, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 60 |