Śyāmasundara: So actually his idea of God would change. For the Communists God means the state; for the primitive savage God means the...
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi made Cāṇakya his god.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That to which one is supremely devoted, that means God.
Prabhupāda: Anyone may be supremely devoted to his wife or sometimes supremely devoted to his dog. The dog is God? Wife is God? So everyone has got one god, and I think that it is supported by Vivekananda, yata mata tata patha: "Whatever you think of God, that's all right." (Hindi with guest) Everyone can manufacture his own God. (laughter) Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He says that we cannot achieve absolute certainty or perfection. So we must rest content...
Prabhupāda: That means he has got a poor fund of knowledge. He does not admit that. But we can say that because his knowledge is not perfect, he's saying like that.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that we must rest content with a faith and a commitment which helps us to face the future resolutely, reconstructing our environment to obtain more satisfactory adjustments. This is the Western philosophy in a nutshell.
Prabhupāda: Why not take directly the words of God? (Hindi with guest)
Śyāmasundara: He says that the idea of God is relative to the observer; that it may be something for one man and something for another. So there is no absolute certainty...
Prabhupāda: That means that none of them know what is God. That is the difference. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says,
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
Nobody knows God. Only one person in many millions may know.
Śyāmasundara: He finds refuge in a kind of humanitarian welfare idea that by...
Prabhupāda: This is called utilitarian.
Śyāmasundara: Called what?
Prabhupāda: Utilitarian.
Śyāmasundara: Utilitarian. He differs from the utilitarians, because they say that we should not...
Prabhupāda: They say if some idea can be utilized for some better position of society. That is utilitarian.
Śyāmasundara: But the utilitarians say that everything should be utilized to serve man's desires. But he says everything should be used to serve man's worthiest desires, man's highest desires, worthy desires.
Prabhupāda: What is the difference between desire and highest desire?
Śyāmasundara: Well, someone may desire more broadness.
Prabhupāda: Who will judge who is highest? Everyone will say, "My desire is the highest."
Śyāmasundara: The utilitarians might say that "People desire more brothels, so let us build more brothels.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Modern world, that is the highest desire. How can you refute that if there is no standard? Everyone says, "This is my law." Unless you go to the court, who will judge?
Revatīnandana: Now he wants to make his desire the highest desire. He's got a theory now that "This is the highest thing I can think of, so this is God." That means I have the highest.
Śyāmasundara: He says that...
Prabhupāda: Our formula is perfect.
Śyāmasundara: He says...
Prabhupāda: We say that if one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is all right. Otherwise reject him. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). They are mano-ratha. They are mental speculators. They are hovering on the mental plane.