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This four-division society that you advocate is contrary to everything in American tradition. How can that be accepted in America?

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"How can that be accepted in America" |"This four-division society that you advocate is contrary to everything in American tradition"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

That has to be trained up. Just like in your country there are medical, professional men, the engineering class of men, the lawyers class of men, similarly, you can train how to become a first-class man. The training process is there in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:


oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)

Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. "Those who are passionate or under the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system." And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those (whose) character is very abominable, they go down." And beyond this, there is another nature. That is called spiritual nature, which is beyond this material universe. There, we understand, that is eternal. This material nature is not eternal. It is manifested or created, and again it is dissolved or annihilated. But beyond this material nature, there is another nature. There are also innumerable planets. They are known as Vaikuṇṭha planets or Vṛndāvana planets. That is the kingdom of God. If we transfer ourself to that eternal nature, then we won't have to come back to this material nature again. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Anyone who goes to that eternal nature, he hasn't got to come back again to this material nature. The material nature has been explained as duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Material nature is full of miserable condition. And the most miserable condition is explained as janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: (BG 13.9) birth, death, old age and disease. So we living entities, we are eternal, part and parcel of God. God is eternal and we are also eternal. Just like gold and little portion of gold. Both of them are gold, but the big gold and the small gold, that is different. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, qualitatively we are one; quantitatively we are different. Although we are different, still, in the spiritual world we can enjoy the same facilities in cooperation with God. We are trying to be happy in this material world. That is not possible. Because here there are four principles of miserable condition, which we cannot avoid. They are birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this life, in the human form of life, where we come after evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, our consciousness being developed, we should decide now whether we shall remain within this material world or we shall go to the spiritual world where the life is eternal. There is no birth, death, old age and disease. So the Vedic civilization trains all human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Vedic civilization. We cannot be happy in this temporary material life. We are working very hard, but if we work a little only, not very hard, there is no need of working very hard. We have created a civilization that we have to work very hard. The Vedic civilization does not recommend that for sense gratification, you shall simply work very hard, day and night. This is not very good life. You should know what is the value of life, what is the aim of life. God has provided everything for our living condition. We should be satisfied, whatever is alloted by God, and save time for being promoted to the spiritual world. That is the arrangement already there by nature. It is said,

pūrṇam idam pūrṇam adaḥ
pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate
pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate
(Iso Invocation)

God is complete and His arrangement is also very complete. Everyone has his necessities of life completely. In the Vedas it is said that we are all living entities. God is also the chief living entity. The difference is that that one God, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He supplies the necessities of all other living entities. In the Christian world also, they believe God gives bread to everyone, and they go to the church, "O God, give us our daily bread." But higher philosophy is that we should not or we need not ask God for our bread. That is already there. We should approach God, how to love Him. That is our business. Otherwise, God is supplying food to the elephant who can eat forty kilogram at a time, or forty kg. And the ant eats only one grain of sugar. So God is supplying all of them. So there is no question of asking God to give us our food. It is already there. We should not waste our time to ask God for our sense gratification. That arrangement is already there. We shall try to know God and try to love Him. That is the business of human form of life. If we are missing that occupational duty, how to learn how to love God... Our philosophy... Or this is the philosophy, that that is the first quality religious system which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). And if we learn how to love God without any motive, nobody can check our love of God. And if we reach that platform, then we become actually happy. God is the supreme proprietor of everything, He is friend of everyone, and He is the enjoyer. We, being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God how He is pleased. Our... Just like part and parcel of our body, this finger, it is always engaged in serving the body according to the desire of the person. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God as He wants service from us. This is perfection. If the finger or any part of my body cannot give service to the whole body, it is to be understood that the part is diseased. Similarly, when we do not give service to God, that is our material condition, or diseased condition, or miserable condition. And if we learn how to love God, how to serve Him, that is our healthy condition. So in the material world everyone is busy how to satisfy the senses. Nobody is interested to satisfy God. So in this condition of life we are misled, misled in this way, that we have got this human form of body, very nice body, and if we are misled, instead of giving service to the Lord, if we simply are engaged in the service of the senses, then we become subject to the karma or fruitive activities. That means we get different types of body. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. So if we do not properly use this human form of body, if we become subjected to sinful life, then we get a different type of body, very—animal life, tree's life, plant's life, aquatic's life, insect life. Or even we are promoted to the higher standard of life, as in higher planets the demigods, the four principles of material miseries, namely birth, death, old age and disease, we cannot avoid, either in the higher planetary or in the lower planetary system. But if we want eternal life of bliss and knowledge, then we must endeavor in this life how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And such persons who are endeavoring for this purpose, they are called first-class men. And they are called brāhmaṇas or the first-class men. So society must be divided into four classes: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. That is general. Those who are endeavoring for realizing God, they are first-class men. Those who are less intelligent—they are trying to rule over the material world—they are second-class men. And those who are engaged in producing food and cow protection, they are third-class. And those who are useless for any of these three occupational duties, they are called fourth-class. And those who are still lower than that, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class, like that. So our educational system should be so arranged that there may be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men, not less than fourth-class men. Then the social structure will be in order and everyone will be peaceful, aiming at the point, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless there is such structure of the society... Just like in our body we have got four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. All of them are required. But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working. So the human society must be divided into four section, and they should work combinedly, cooperatively. Then there will be peaceful condition for realization of the goal of life, back to home, back to Godhead. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this process of life, and the whole world is now in chaos on account of no brain. Just like we have got this body. If the brain is not working in good condition, then he is called a madman. So in spite of possessing other parts of the body, namely, the arm, the belly, and the leg, if the head is not in good condition, then the body is useless. At this present moment there is want of first-class men and also second-class men. The whole world is filled up with third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore the society is not properly adjusted. By accepting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... The process is described very nicely in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, we will find answers for all the problems of life, and if we take it seriously, then the whole human society will be happy, peaceful, in this life, and next life they will go back to home, back to Godhead for eternal blissful life of knowledge. So we are giving literary information in fifty books. Some of the books are distributed here. You can see. Otherwise, the process is very simple. If we chant the holy name of the Lord, we become purified, our heart becomes cleansed, and we can understand the aim of life, the goal of life, and in this way everything can be adjusted very nicely. Thank you very much.

Reporter: You're taking now questions?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Reporter: This four-division society that you advocate is contrary to everything in American tradition. How can that be accepted in America?

Prabhupāda: That has to be trained up. Just like in your country there are medical, professional men, the engineering class of men, the lawyers class of men, similarly, you can train how to become a first-class man. The training process is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Bring it. Śamo damaḥ titikṣa satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam. The... Just like you have got formula how to train medical man, how to train in the mechanical man, or different department of knowledge, similarly, you can train how to become first-class man. How to become second-class man. The direction are already there. You can take advantage of the direction and train people as first-class, second-class, third-class.