Guest (1) (Indian man): ...the light is (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, no. That means light becomes subordinate to the shadow.
Guest (1): Uh, for his experience, for his growth.
Prabhupāda: That is my..., that this experience... You have got some experience, I have got some experience and another has experience. But so far you are talking of Bhagavad-gītā... Because you say that Aurobindo has written on the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, Kṛṣṇa says:
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
Like that. He says that mattaḥ parataram: "There is no more superior, supramental or Supreme Personality..." As you say supramental, it is with reference to a person. Just like Aurobindo, supramental. That means it is with reference to the Aurobindo person. Is it not? Any mental. As you say, "mental," it is with reference to a person.
Guest (1): Even if somebody says he is supramental or not, a yogi automatically, when he is in touch with the creative power, he gets the, gets the knowledge of past, present and future.
Prabhupāda: Then why your knowledge and my knowledge different?
Guest (1): Because of our construction of mind.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that...
Guest (1): The vibration comes the same, but one poet may write a poetry of a very high..., you know, Shakespeare...
Prabhupāda: I've got... I made...
Guest (1): And another can be a lower form. But both of them are true. For me, even in the lower poetry's true, the higher is true. But it is a question of gradation merely, where the man has reached to.
Prabhupāda: Well, everything is true, but higher true, or lower true?
Guest (1): Both are true.
Prabhupāda: Both are true, but both are not the same thing. Then why higher and lower?
Guest (1): Because of his evolutionary stage.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Then higher must be taken as higher, lower must be taken as lower. Just like a child's mental condition and his father's mental condition, they are not the same thing.
Guest (1): Sir, then today's lower, lower, higher, will be tomorrow's lower. Because tomorrow will be another unfolding.
Prabhupāda: But, but then you have to admit... Tomorrow he may be higher, but there, there is always the same thing, higher and lower. That you have to admit.
Guest (1): It's a manifestation.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): It's a manifestation of (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you have to accept... Just like your son, your son. Tomorrow he'll be grown up like you, but at the present moment, his mental condition, your mental condition, there are different.
Guest (1): He's in evolution.
Prabhupāda: Yes, evolution. That, I understand. But these two things will continue.
Guest (1): As long as he's evolving and I'm evolving separately...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Guest (1): As individual...
Prabhupāda: No...,
Guest (1): ...because we are individualized.
Prabhupāda: But do you think that Aurobindo's mental condition or your mental condition, the same?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then here is higher and lower.
Guest (1): No, no.
Prabhupāda: Why "no"? One time you say, "No..." No, no, this is contradictory.
Guest (1): Yes, sir, this is part (indistinct) higher and lower.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Gradations, you can use words.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that will exist always.
Guest (1): Always?
Prabhupāda: Always exist.
Guest (1): They will always exist? Gradations will always exist?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Now where that evolution will end?
Guest (1): When there is a world of ānanda, a new type of world...
Prabhupāda: But...
Guest (1): ...as animals...
Prabhupāda: That is, that is an expectation. That will never become. As you believe in Aurobindo, "When there will be," we say, "In the material world, there will be no such thing."
Guest (1): The Lord will be minus then, if He cannot create a...
Prabhupāda: No, Lord is not minus.
Guest (1): ...a divine body on the sun.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Lord is not minus. That you have to take information from the Bhagavad-gītā, as the Lord says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). In this material world, it is everything duḥkhālayam aśāś... Because you talked of the Bhagavad-gītā, therefore I am talking on the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā states about this material world as duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries only.
Guest (1): Provided this is the body.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Provided this is the body. When the...
Prabhupāda: But this body you have got. How you can deny?
Guest (1): But next evolution has to be another body only, sir.
Prabhupāda: That is your expectation.
Guest (1): No. Already this, it is before us. The animals have come, and they, above the animals, we are there. We can't be the end of it. The next one is this yogic life, or a yogic body.
Prabhupāda: But then... What is that end. That you do not know.
Guest (1): It will be always unfolding.
Prabhupāda: That means it is always unknown.
Guest (1): Yes, the Lord is... Nobody can limit Lord.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is, that is unknown to you. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, it is not unknown. There is a standard. There is a perfection stage.
Guest (1): As long as I have got body, I can never know God fully.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right, so long you have got the body.
Guest (1): All of our śāstras says...
Prabhupāda: But, you hear me. You have come to take some light. You kindly hear.
Guest (1): Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: You were talking on the Bhagavad-gītā. I say on the Bhagavad-gītā. So so long you have got this body, there is no perfection. That's a fact.