Śyāmasundara: In order for that statement or that proposition to be true, there must be evidence.
Prabhupāda: This is evidence: that there is no soul. The self, the individual soul, is now departed; therefore this body is lump of matter. This is evidence. And because the soul is there, therefore the body changes or develops. Just like if a child is born dead, then the body does not develop or changes. It remains in the same condition. But so long the soul is there, the child grows or changes his body. That is evidence. Because the soul is there, therefore the child is growing or changing body from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth. Suppose a child is born, doctor says it is dead child. You say something is wanted, but what is that something? You do not know. Otherwise, if you know, you add it. What is that something? Suggest, what is that something? Simply vague idea something, that is nonsense idea. That is not science. You must give, "This is wanting." Suppose that you say that the blood, the redness, just like nowadays blood supply is the theory, so what is this blood? Blood is a liquid, red liquid, like chemical or something, with some salt. So you can add salt, just like in cholera cases, they add saline injection. So dead body, you give saline injection, make it red by some color, give him life. If you say that "Red blood is now white," so make it red. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. There are so many chemicals. If you say the redness is the life, then there are many natural products, just like jewels, by nature it is red. Why is it not alive? Why it is not alive? By natural redness of something, if you say that is the cause of life, then there are many jewels. What is called, jewels?
Śyāmasundara: Ruby.
Prabhupāda: Ruby. Why it is not alive? Redness is there. Therefore we have to accept your identification with the soul, not with this body; otherwise this is nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: He is not disputing that there is soul or there is not soul. He is merely putting forward a principle to test something, if it is true or false.
Prabhupāda: This is the test. This is the test. Because the soul is there, therefore the body is moving.
Śyāmasundara: So that is the evidence for...
Prabhupāda: That is the evidence. Anyone can see. Now we say, "My father is gone. Oh, my father is gone." Where has he gone? Your father is lying there. Why do you say gone?
Devānanda: They say he has passed away. But what is passed away?
Prabhupāda: Passed away... What is this passed away? That means you have not seen your father. You have not seen your father, still you identify the body as your father. Or your father identifies your body as yourself. Just like the father has not seen the son, the son has not seen the father. Therefore it is illusion.
Śyāmasundara: The movement of the body is evidence that the soul exists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only evidence. Because the soul is there, that individual soul.
Devānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when death comes, at the moment... Before death, the whole body is alive, completely alive and functioning, and in a split second it's all finished, completely dead. That would be an evidence that it is not a chemical combination. If it were a chemical combination it would die slowly.
Prabhupāda: The reason is that the soul, when quitting this body, there is examination what kind of body he is going to get. Superior examination. Either you call nature or God, there is superior... According to his karma he will get a body. Now, that requires a little time. So what kind of body this soul will get? As soon as it is decided, then immediately he's transferred to that kind of body, and this body remains there.
Śyāmasundara: This would also, it seems, satisfy his second requirement for verification, that sense observation or information ultimately derived by means of sense observation is necessary for verification.
Prabhupāda: This is sense observation. It not nonsensical; it is complete sense, sensible, that now this soul has passed and quit this body—death. So the body is not the man; the soul is the man. This is quite sensible. It is not nonsensical. Otherwise how do you explain? You explain what is that distinction between dead body and living body. What is your sensible explanation, according to this philosopher?
Śyāmasundara: He isn't quibbling with that. His only philosophy was that he was putting forward ways of determining what is true and what is false.
Prabhupāda: So that is evidence that this body is false, the soul is true. That is our statement. Body is false. Just like this, this (indistinct), this sweater, this is false. It has got a hand but it is false hand. The real hand is within, within the shirt, that is real hand. Similarly, this body also. It is compared with dress. The dress is false. The man who puts on the dress, he is true. Similarly, the soul is the truth and the body is false. If you want to make distinction between false and true, then this is the distinction: the soul is the truth, the body is false.
Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is that mental activity which seeks to analyze or clarify the meanings of scientific propositions.
Prabhupāda: This is philosophy: to study what is this body and how it is moving. This is analytical study. And you come to the understanding that the body is a dead lump of matter, there is something which is called the soul. Because the soul is there. This is scientific truth. One who has not this knowledge, he is not scientific; he is foolish.
Śyāmasundara: In other words, if you make a scientific proposition that "Because I am, the body moves," that is your scientific proposition?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is scientific proposition.