Harikeśa: The problem nowadays though is that I met some of these Socialists on the train, and I would ask them, "What is your philosophy?" and they would just smile and...
Prabhupāda: There is no philosophy. They're cats and dogs. What philosophy they have?
Harikeśa: They don't know their philosophy. So how can we defeat them?
Prabhupāda: The philosophy classes are being closed now in the universities.
Harikeśa: It is useless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're thinking it is useless, simply mental speculation. And Bhagavad-gītā says, tattva jñānārthaṁ darśanam. Philosophy means to find out the ultimate truth. That is philosophy.
Harikeśa: But actually this is the proof of Marx's philosophy...
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I say the dialectic. The dialectics should proceed further. They have ended this, that the workers should be the proprietor.
Harikeśa: So now the, the, the, there's no philosophy. So the workers, they are simply frustrated. Now they're going to rebel and revolt without any philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be natural. Because if you cannot live perfect philosophy, then they will revolt. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ... You are a rascal, and you're trying to lead other rascals with some rascal philosophy. How long this rascaldom will go on?
Harikeśa: So there's no need for any movement...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: ...Communist movement.
Prabhupāda: There is need of movement.
Harikeśa: No, no. I mean there's no need for any organized Communist movement, because according to their philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're fools. They're as fools. They are simply criticizing the capitalists, that much. That much, there is something ideal that the state property should be equally divided. That's a good thesis. But they do not know that it is not the ultimate solution. You do not know who is the proprietor. You do not know the proprietor. These things belong to Him. You are using it. I am thinking that "You are proprietor." But actually you are not proprietor. He is proprietor. If that is the position, then I take it from you that: "You cannot possess. I shall possess." Then what is my possess? The same thing. As you took it, took it out from this man, so I took it, take it from you. So my position is the same. If you cannot find out who is the actual proprietor, then you may change hands. The problem remains there, that it, it does not belong to you. You are forcibly snatching from the proprietor, or without knowing the proprietor, you are making arrangement. What is the value of this arrangement?
Harikeśa: So it's just the animal philosophy of the strong dominating the weak...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.
Harikeśa: ...in, in a new package.
Prabhupāda: "Might is right." That's all. This is going on.
Harikeśa: So this was the philosophy of Machiavelli, that "Might makes right."
Prabhupāda: But Machiavelli also does not know who is the proprietor. That is the defect. Machiavelli also does not know. He's also another fool. So long you do not know who is the proprietor, then...
Harikeśa: But it's true. Might does make right.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice. The king, you can take twenty-five mounds. That is my obligation." And king is also satisfied. By distributing that grain, he maintains the whole government. The real difficulty is all these rascals, they are not sufficiently educated. They are mūḍhas. And they are trying to solve the problems. That is not possible. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are bound up. They're making adjustment, but.... Just like Gandhi. For making adjustment, all of a sudden a man came, (makes sound like gun) khat. Finished. Kennedy was making some adjustment. Somebody came and killed him. It is like that. What is the value of your adjustments? It will be finished after some days. Therefore the Russians, they support revolution. They said, "It is necessary." They admit the imperfectness. And occasional revolution makes it perfect. This is their idea of perfection. But they do not inquire that "What is that supreme power which makes our ideas of perfection imperfect?" These rascals, they do not never, do not ever inquire, "What is that power which forces to make our attempt frustrated, spoil, and make it imperfect?" What do they say about this?
Haṁsadūta: They never come to this point.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Haṁsadūta: They never come to this point.
Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. This is the fact. We make some arrangement, and after few years it becomes imperfect. They say the revolution required. Why? That is natural. And natural means a power which makes your arrangement spoiled. Then what is your brain? You have got some superior brain which nullifies your plan. Why don't you accept this?