Karandhara: In the West, they don't accept the Bhagavad-gītā as anything but a piece of mythology or . . .
Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept something else. He has to accept something. He may accept Bible. They may not accept Bhagavad-gītā; they must accept Bible. But you have to . . . then you have to lead your life according to the version of the Bible. The version of the Bible is that, "Thou shall not kill." You are killing, therefore you are not . . . not followers of Bible. You are rascal.
Karandhara: Well, their process is to discredit all scriptures so that they don't have to follow anything.
Prabhupāda: Then you are discredited. Who follows your version? If you discredit others' version, who follows your version? Who are you? If you don't accept other authority, and who is going to accept your authority? Why shall I? You cannot become authority that, "I don't accept any authority." I have to follow that? Then you become authority.
Sudāmā: They also argue, though, that . . .
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, to understand. If he says that "I don't accept any authority," that means he becomes authority. I have to follow him.
Hṛdayānanda: Then they say it's a, it's just like a stand-off, then.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: That . . . then they say: "Well, it's a stand-off, that I say I'm right and that you say you are right. So it cannot be . . ."
Prabhupāda: But that, therefore there is confusion. The world position is like that. Now it is confusion. Everything is . . .
Bali-mardana: Conflict.
Prabhupāda: . . . in confusion. That is chaotic condition. Every citizen says: "I don't accept government law. I have got my own law." It is confusion.
Bali-mardana: We can say: "Where is the result of your . . ."
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bali-mardana: We can say: "Where is the result of your belief?"
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: Confusion.
Prabhupāda: Confusion is not . . . chaotic condition, confusion, is not proper stage. That is a state of suffering. That is the position at the present moment. Otherwise, why they are fighting, nation to nation, man to man, group to group, community to community, diplomat to dip . . .? They're simply fighting like cats and dogs. This is not perfect society. Simply ca . . . they say dogs. They can simply make barking, "Rowf! Rowf! Rowf! Rowf!" That is not perfect society. Human society should be sober. That is Vedic civilization.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one should follow the standard morality. When that standard set is lacking or it fails to understand, then people try to speculate their own thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Nobody's following any standard. Just like these Western people, mostly Christians. It is clearly stated in the Bible, "Thou shall not kill," and they're simply killing. Their only business is killing.
Bali-mardana: And divorce.
Prabhupāda: And divorce.
Bali-mardana: It says: "Thou shalt not commit adultery."
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, how do they claim Christian? Eh? What do you think? They're not even category . . . in the category of dogs, cats, and they're claiming that "We are follower of Lord Jesus Christ."
Sudāmā: But they also argue, Prabhupāda, that that law, "Thou shalt not kill," "I am not killing. The others are killing. But I am not."
Prabhupāda: Just see. Is that very good argument? "I am not killing."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he's eating.
Prabhupāda: "I am not killing the snake. My stick is killing." Is that very good argument? (laughter) These rascals, all these rascals, they avoid. "I am not killing. I am not responsible. My, my, this stick has killed." Just see. If you go to the court, "Sir, I have not killed, my stick has killed . . ." Just see how rascal they are.
Dr. Wolfe: It is a question whether this "Thou shalt not kill" does not also include all our animal brothers and sisters.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Wolfe: I think it should also include that. Because "Thou shalt not kill" is just not kill creatures, not only men. But apart from that, they do not even follow it where men come in. They kill. They do.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow what . . .
Sudāmā: He's saying . . .
Hṛdayānanda: He's agreeing.
Sudāmā: He's agreeing that, "Thou shalt not kill" should also include all animals.