Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, Mr. Sar!
Dr. Patel: No, he will not say anything because he's a baniya (?). He'll reserve his opinion.
Guest (4) (Indian man): To answer the scripture... (break)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Vedic system is...
Guest (3): You know, all these... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Arjuna. In the beginning he was arguing, but when he saw it is useless, he said, śādhi māṁ prapannam. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). That is required.
Guest (3): Guru expects from you that thing... (break)
Prabhupāda: Actually, it is a process, a guru should not instruct anybody who is not a disciple.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Because he's not submissive, it is useless waste of time. That is... That is the... Guru should not speak to anyone...
Dr. Patel: Therefore you are speaking to me. So I am... (break)
Prabhupāda: According to our Vaiṣṇava principles, ādau gurvāśrayam, the first business is to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. Then one has to inquire about sad-dharma. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. One should follow the footprints of the previous ācāryas. This is the process, one after another. So first thing is ādau gurvāśrayam, one has to accept a guru. So you may, you should, I mean to say, check whether he's guru or not. That is allowed. It is said for one year the śiṣya and the guru should meet together...
Dr. Patel: And don't talk.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, the guru, I mean, the aspirant śiṣya will hear and study whether he's actually fit for becoming guru. Similarly, the guru will also study that whether he's actually fit for becoming a... Just like in our society. We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process. (break) Yes.
Dr. Patel: So if you don't hear near me, so that is the misfortune of all...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You are a learned gentleman.
Dr. Patel: He's learning.
Prabhupāda: A learned gentleman, that is another thing, yes. And we are preaching. We must talk on the point of philosophy. That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: So we have made up now. Don't worry. (break)
Guest (3): You cannot argue what he says.
Dr. Patel: No... That is the way. You see, I am trying to... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is nice.
Dr. Patel: Sometimes you say nice, and sometimes you also fire me. So what this, what I am to understand about our relationship?
Prabhupāda: You should be fired always. (laughter) But if I do not say sometimes nice, then it will be dangerous.
Dr. Patel: Then why you'll understand that this is all humbug?
Bhāgavata: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you can tell us the qualifications of guru and the qualifications of disciple?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very simple thing. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). So this is the qualification of celā. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. One has to accept a guru. Who? Jijñāsu. What kind of jijñāsu. (Hindi) Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. "What is the best ultimate goal of life?" Such person will require a guru. Those who are interested with these material affairs, they do not require a guru.
Dr. Patel: They require Einstein as a guru.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. Real guru means those who are interested in these material affairs, they do not require a guru. It is... It is a fashion. "Such man has kept such and such guru." Just like keeping a dog. This is not guru.
Dr. Patel: (laughs) That is good.
Prabhupāda: Keeping a guru, and "Guru, come here, come here, guru." (laughter) Not like that. That is useless. And this is the qualification of celā. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One who is interested with the Absolute Truth. That requires, he requires a guru. And guru means, śābde pare ca niṣṇātam. Śābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam (SB 11.3.21). This is the qualification. Śābde, he's, in the Vedic knowledge, he's perfect. Śābde pare ca. Niṣṇātam. He has immersed himself in that ocean. And the result is brahmaṇy upaśama..., he has no more material interests, simply Brahman. That's all. How simple it is, the qualification of celā and qualification of guru. As soon as Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his guru, He immediately gave him a slap: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). "You are talking like very learned man. You are fool number one."
Dr. Patel: So you told me the same thing. Very good. I must be proud that I am going to be lion(?). That is what you mean to say.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the guru's... Guru's business is, when he talks much, he says, "All right, it is all right," but when he accepts guru slaps.
Dr. Patel: Choke him up. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes. How mildly He says: Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś... (BG 2.11). "You do not know what is what..."
Dr. Patel: "You are a fool."
Prabhupāda: "You are a fool number one." Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. He says, "A paṇḍita does not like this." That means, "You are a mūrkha." Indirectly, He said, "A paṇḍita does not do this. Now you learn." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). He began to speak Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Patel: Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti...
Prabhupāda: Nānuśocanti. The body, either dead or living, the paṇḍita has nothing to care about. But the whole world is taking care of the body.
Dr. Patel: Because the world is body conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are all... None of them are paṇḍitas. Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is described as ass and cow.
Dr. Patel: Go-kharaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah, go-kharaḥ. Yes. You have heard so many things. (break) ...buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Kalatrādiṣu, attached.
Dr. Patel: Wife and others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. And land, "This is my country, this is my home, this is ijya," bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Ijya means worshipable. As all these leaders, so-called nationalists, they are under the concept of this body, and their country, their home, is worshipable. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). (break) Now...
Dr. Patel: And Hindus... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Go vā kharo vā. The same thing. Go is little useful because it supplies milk, and kharaḥ is useful. You overburden him.
Dr. Patel: No, we were giving milk of kharaḥ to the children in the hospital.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because that is as good as the mother's milk.
Prabhupāda: Everything has got his use, but still, go-kharaḥ is go-kharaḥ.
Dr. Patel: This is also creation of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: And useful.
Prabhupāda: No, useful.
Dr. Patel: Nothing, nothing which is not in...
Prabhupāda: No, useful, that's all right. Again your coming to this, "Therefore everything is Kṛṣṇa." That is not conclusion.
Dr. Patel: No, I did not say everything is again. You are misinterpreting me before these boys.
Prabhupāda: No, you'll come to that.
Dr. Patel: I don't come to that. I say everything is made by Kṛṣṇa which is useful. Nothing... It is not useful is made by Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are pūrṇasya, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam (Iso Invocation). Everything created by Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. He does not create anything useless. Just like this sea water is salty. Why it is salty? If it is not salty, then it cannot be preserved. Therefore it is salty. You have to take water. But it is made salty. The process is... It is distilled by the sun, and then you are supplied. Just see how perfectly it is done. It is put onto the top of the hills, and it comes as river. This is God's creation.
Bhāgavata: Complete.
Prabhupāda: Complete, yes. Complete... Complete intelligence.
Bhāgavata: But we make it incomplete.
Dr. Patel: How can you make anything incomplete. You have no power to... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...instruction from the Complete, Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: So don't say "we." We are nothing.
Prabhupāda: We take instruction from the Complete, not partial. Partial instruction may be good partially. But complete is complete. (break) ...pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate.