Indian man: Then what is that merging?
Prabhupāda: No, no. You bring thousands of examples, but whether we have to accept them or Kṛṣṇa?
Indian man: I mean the doubt I am having, Gītā, I mean...
Prabhupāda: Then you, you now you just become out of doubt. That... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Seventh Chapter, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ asaṁśayam. Here is asaṁśayam. No doubt. Why you are in doubt? You do not accept Kṛṣṇa. You accept somebody else.
Indian man: Not a question of accepting. We are all ignorant people in the field of...
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are in doubt.
Indian man: We are, we have...
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are in doubt. If you want to be doubtless, then you accept Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Āśrayaḥ. Not that equal footing. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). So you have to accept Kṛṣṇa. If you become, if you want to become doubtless. Otherwise, you'll be put into doubt. Here it is said asaṁśayam, "without any doubt." That is the process. And if you want to remain in doubt, you continue. You accept this man, that man, that man, that man, that man. That is your business. But if you want to be doubtless, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man: So we say in the bhakti-mārga for eternally the Paramātmā and ātmā will remain separate, separate entities.
Prabhupāda: And that is always. You cannot become one with Him.
Indian man: Then in what levels the man got to remain in a separate entity? Always in the same bhakta?
Prabhupāda: Nitya-yuktā upāsate. The one is worshipable, another is worshiper. That's all. Nitya-yuktā upāsate. Upāsate means the worshipable is there and the worshiper is there. Then the question of upāsana. If they become one then where is upāsana?
Indian man: Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling. At one stage...
Prabhupāda: But that is not the fact. Here it is said upāsate. Upāsate means he worships. So if he loses his existence, then where is worship?
Indian man: No. Ātman's got to go on practicing and try to become pure and purer and purer.
Prabhupāda: Without being pure you cannot go there. There is no question of upāsana.
- yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
Unless you are completely free from all sinful reaction, there is no upāsana. That is practice. That is practice. Just like neophyte, one is practicing. Just like one student is practicing. That is sa bhakta prakṛta smṛta.(?) This is material. But when you are pākā, practiced, then you go to the nitya-dhāma. And your business is the same. Here it is practice and there it is permanent. That's all. Nitya-yuktā upāsate. The upāsana continues.