Hari-śauri: But how can they take it that what we're doing is a bad thing. If we're training people how to avoid intoxication, how to avoid illicit sex, abortion, contraception.
Prabhupāda: They say, "Why you should avoid? This is life. Why you are brainwashing?" One boy was there in the beginning. What was his name? Ranchor, his name, I gave him. So his father argued, "Why you are avoiding illicit sex? This is life! Why you are afraid? I'll give you car. I'll give you girls. You enjoy. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy." His father was arguing. I think everyone's father argues like that. Lord Roland said, he said, "Why you are prohibiting this thing? This is our life. It is impossible."
Hari-śauri: The thing is in society still, even now, there are people who abstain from it. There are vegetarians.
Prabhupāda: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.
Hari-śauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.
Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask... The man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.
Hari-śauri: Then how to fight them?
Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition we have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let them give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying, not directly. It is not possible.
Hari-śauri: Then how are we going to fare in this court case? 'Cause in these court cases it's a question of presenting one side against the...
Prabhupāda: No, philosophy is there. Court case means there is philosophy, there is logic. So for that we have got so many books. We can... But general mass of people, chanting. When there is court case we are prepared to defend. We have got... We are not fools. We can talk that what is the aim of life. They cannot say anything. The transmigration of the soul, the aim of life which we are discussing in our book, that's fact. How he can deny the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? And if that is accepted, the whole problem is solved. He does not know what kind of life he is going to get. Therefore they do not accept this philosophy. If once accepted, then next question—"What kind of life we are going to get, either to become a tree or a dog or human being?" What arrangement you have done that you will get next life human being? Then the pious and impious activities comes one after another. The basic principle they are denying. "After this body is finished, everything is finished." Bhāsmi bhūtasya dehasya punar agama...(?) "The body will be burned into ashes, and where is life? Who is coming? Who is going? That's all." They do not see the soul. Their medical science cannot find out where is soul. How do they say the... The soul means intelligence, they say. Otherwise how do they say the animal has no soul? Why do they say? What is the... "Man has soul," they say. "The animal has no soul."
Jagadīśa: That's what the Christians say. The Christians say.
Prabhupāda: So what is the symptom?
Hari-śauri: Well, they... 'Cause he, man, has reason and logic.
Prabhupāda: That means reason and logic is soul. That is their idea. That is not soul. Intelligence, when I say, "You have got intelligence," it does not mean you are intelligence. "You have got intelligence," we say like that. We never say, "You are intelligence." So intelligence is not soul. The rascals, they do not know. Mistake. Nobody says, "You are intelligence." They say, "You are intelligent."
Hari-śauri: Intelligence is something you possess.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? (break)