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The fifth scene is renunciation of household life... This is at age...? This is considerably later then. This is about ten years later

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"The fifth scene is renunciation of household life" |"This is about ten years later" |"This is at age" |"This is considerably later then"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

No. Renunciation... Now this Chand Kazi, he was... This movement when He was about 20 years old. Do you follow?... The saṅkīrtana was going on... But practically He started this saṅkīrtana movement vigorously from the age of 15 years. But when He was 20 years old, when the movement took very nice appearance, the brāhmaṇas complained.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion, that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs)

So if you will understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said: "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said: "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmins proved how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls.

So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, "Such kind of learned brāhmins and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing . . ." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and . . ." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ (CC Adi 17.164). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions . . . or what is called? Offering some . . . something to the forefathers? What is called?

Hayagrīva: Oblations.

Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age.

So Chand Kazi also replied that, "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Quran. Actually . . . I mean to say, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed." So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque.

So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh, and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students."

In this way . . . so they were friends, and he understood . . . Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement that, "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement, and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants would never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."

Hayagrīva: All right. Now, I don't have any questions there. I probably wouldn't deal quite at such length about the meat. I don't see how that . . . the main thing was about the saṅkīrtana, the chanting.

Prabhupāda: Chanting, and it was mitigated, and he allowed. First of all, there was objection, then there was civil disobedience, then when they, I mean to say, compromised, the Chand Kazi allowed the movement. This is the whole idea.

Hayagrīva: The fifth scene is renunciation of household life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: This is at age . . .? This is considerably later, then. This is about ten years later.

Prabhupāda: No. Renunciation . . . now this Chand Kazi, he was . . . this movement when He was about twenty years old. Do you follow?

Hayagrīva: The saṅkīrtana was when He was around twenty. The Kazi.

Prabhupāda: The saṅkīrtana was going on.

Hayagrīva: When He was sixteen, fifteen.

Prabhupāda: But practically He started this saṅkīrtana movement vigorously from the age of fifteen years. But when He was twenty years old, when the movement took very nice appearance, the brāhmins they complained. So this movement was about twenty years old, when . . . then renunciation . . .

Hayagrīva: He's twenty-four now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation. So one day it so happened that instead of chanting "Hare Kṛṣṇa," Lord Caitanya was chanting, "Gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī," instead of chanting "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." So He had a small school. The brāhmins, generally they keep a small school, which is called catuṣpaṭhī. C-c-h-a-a-t-u-s-p-a-t-h-i.

Catuṣpaṭhī. Catuṣpaṭhī means that a school where up to the four Vedas are taught. Grammar and religion and everything is taught there. So there . . . in every village that was system, the brāhmins should keep up a school like that. Students were all almost, they were also of the same age. Some of them were fifteen years old, sixteen years old.

So the students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said: "Oh, why You are chanting gopī gopī? Why You do not chant 'Kṛṣṇa,' 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy, because He was . . . in the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa.

So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized, "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is . . . how He has become so big that they (He) wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him.

So He decided that, "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much.