Reverend Powell: Your people have a serenity that many western people don't have. What, what is the secret of serenity? And is it... I gather you reject many material demands, materialism as such.
Prabhupāda: Surrender is not material.
Satsvarūpa: Serenity...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: To what do you attribute this serenity that your devotees have, their calmness.
Prabhupāda: Communist?
Satsvarūpa: The devotees seem to be calm, serene. Where does that come from?
Prabhupāda: From Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.
Reverend Powell: From what?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when one...
Reverend Powell: Ah, the consciousness, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā. These are the proofs. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he becomes qualified with all godly attributes. That I have explained, that if you be in touch with God, then you become godly. That is the test. Simply by saying that "I am in commune with God." No. There is test. The test means if he is always in touch with God, he'll become, in his characteristics, godly. So they... One of the qualifications is serenity. Is one of the qualifications. There are twenty-five qualifications of a devotee.
Reverend Powell: Twenty-five?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reverend Powell: What are some of the others?
Prabhupāda: Have you got the list?
Satsvarūpa: Friendly... Uh, it's in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Right here, Teachings of...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reverend Powell: I don't... I believe, obviously, you would have ways, methods of becoming God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. What...? Sort of a meditation? Chanting? Or...?
Prabhupāda: No, it is practical. What is it?
Satsvarūpa: (Reading) It says, "There are many such qualities. Lord Caitanya described some of them. A devotee of the Lord is always kind to everyone. He does not..."
Prabhupāda: First qualification. He is very kind to everyone. Yes. Then?
Satsvarūpa: "He does not pick a quarrel with anyone. He takes the essence of life, spiritual life. He is equal to everyone. No one can find fault in a devotee. His magnanimous mind is always fresh and clean, without material obsessions. He is a benefactor to all living entities. He is peaceful. He is always surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He has no material desire. He is very humble. He is fixed in his direction. He is victorious over the six material qualities, such as lust and anger. He does not eat more than what he needs. He is always sane. He is respectful to others, but for himself he does not require any respect. He is grave. He is merciful. He is friendly. He is a poet. He is an expert, and he is silent."
Reverend Powell: Well, they're all very good, aren't they? (laughs) And so in reading about Lord Kṛṣṇa, I take it that He performed many miracles of healing. I'm very interested in spiritual healing because in my ministry here in Australia I've been twenty-nine years in the Harley Streets, the streets of doctors. I'm now in Colin (?) Street. I was in McQuarrie Street in Sydney. And in Sydney I had forty-one medical men on, and women, mainly men on my role of members, and we work very closely. This very day I've been working closely with a doctor with a certain patient who's having what is called a nervous breakdown. And we, over the years, have spent a lot of time with spiritual healing. Now, do you yourself practice spiritual healing?
Prabhupāda: Hmm, no. Practically, we have very little suffering from disease. The devotees... We are spending so much money, but we don't spend for doctors' bill. You see?
Reverend Powell: Well, normal doctors, but now, we explain to our patients that the doctor normally works with the physical level, and the psychiatrist works with the emotional mental level, but the church works with the spiritual level. And just as Jesus...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual level means to cure his material disease.
Reverend Powell: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The material disease is birth, death, old age and disease.
Reverend Powell: I'm sorry. I don't quite follow that.
Satsvarūpa: He said the real disease is the material condition in which we have to suffer birth, death, disease and old age.
Reverend Powell: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So these things can be overcome by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.