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The atma, Krsna, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments

Expressions researched:
"The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Our point is that nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.23). The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments.

Prabhupāda: But they . . . they must explain. Just like in Vedic literature the same idea is there. (aside) Don't lean. I am begging excuse. I am old man. But you should sit down like Guru Mahārāja. So we know what was the word, oṁkāra. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. (break) So oṁkāra is the word. So what is the Christian word?

Prajāpati: Again, there's no absolute authority. In the vast Christian tradition we have Origen saying one thing and St. Francis saying another. Widespread . . . that's why it is not a science that we can go to like we can to Śrīla Prabhupāda for an exact answer, Bhagavad-gītā, exact absolute authority. In the Christian tradition it is simply defined as faithful men understanding themselves in the light of the scripture, in the light of the tradition.

Prabhupāda: No, that is because you are our student. Suppose our preachers meet the theologicians. How to prove that theology is not the means? Theology . . . generally, you say it is speculation. So our point is that nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.23). The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments.

Prajāpati: The theologian would agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a question of what's called apologetics. Theology has a specific function for the Christian Church, to bring people within the fold. Simply to convince them through any means, logical or whatever, to then to come within the Church community, and then once they are within that group, then they can participate in what's called the Christian life. You have taking sacraments, engage in Christian fellowship, taking communion, so many things.

Acyutānanda: But their authorities disagree.

Prajāpati: Yes. That is . . . they will agree with that.

Acyutānanda: But our disciplic succession from thousands of years, there's no big disagreement.

Pañcadraviḍa: I met one . . . I was traveling about three months ago in India. I met one Christian on the train. So we began to discuss the śāstra. So I mentioned some of the arguments in reference to the Bible, that Christ was speaking . . .

Prabhupāda: (aside:) No, no. Where that covering? Where is it?

Pañcadraviḍa: I said that Christ was speaking basically to an uneducated public, the fishermen, etc . . . so then this man, he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. But," he said, "you're. . ."

Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?

Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked . . . politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said: "That's all right." He said: "You can speak about fishermen. But," he said: "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular . . . Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said: "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."

Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Pañcadraviḍa: So he said just to talk about the Bible as evidence is not enough. He said: "You're overlooking direct revelation," which is what we are also dealing with, that the man who lives according to the word of God, he receives the word of God directly.

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Pañcadraviḍa: Hmm?

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Pañcadraviḍa: He said to that effect, yes. He said: "Your argument about a fisherman community is not completely valid."

Prajāpati: There's always a differentiation we must make between a Christian, who we might meet and engage in argument, and the theologian himself. The theologian is a very oily character, very hard to pin down. The Christian, he may have specific beliefs, dogmatic, tenaciously holding to dogma, but the theologian, he . . .

Acyutānanda: Well, what does that . . .? What do they say?

Prajāpati: The theologians?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prajāpati: They are simply word-jugglers. They are not held nearly so tight to . . .

Acyutānanda: Well, then, what's some of the things they invent?

Prajāpati: Well, one we were bringing up is simply that theology is a means that faithful men are coming to understand themselves, not that are approaching God. One approaches God within a community and within . . .

Prabhupāda: That a faithful man understands God, that we say. Then what is the basic principle of theology? Why this separate science has been established as "theology"? "Logy" means science.

Page Title:The atma, Krsna, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments
Compiler:SharmisthaK
Created:2022-12-31, 10:12:22
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=1, Let=0
No. of Quotes:1