That is the defect (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"That is another defect" |"That is one defect" |"That is the basic defect" |"That is the modern civilization defect" |"This is the greatest defect" |"This is the whole defect" |"that is a defect" |"that is defect" |"that is our defect" |"that is the defect" |"this is defect" |"this is our defect" |"this is the defect"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, how it breaks? They keep it for years, and you broke them? How you...? How you broke? Automatically?

Jayapatāka: No, because there was no place to store them, by moving them and moving them from different rooms then they gradually broke.

Prabhupāda: So there are so many rooms. You could not make any store?

Jayapatāka: First they were in the building to here. When they moved it then many became damaged. And somebody came in and vandaled them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jayapatāka: Somebody came in and destroyed them.

Prabhupāda: Somebody came in?

Jayapatāka: Vandalized.

Prabhupāda: You are so careful. That is the defect. Yes. Somebody broke it. (break) We have got so many enemies and you did not take care of it. (break) Where these.... When these pictures will begin?

Jayapatāka: Over on that side we're putting the stones. The stones should be finished about in one week. Then we're going to start the pictures. Already there's a few frames they're ready to start on that side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very nice how they, the way they're putting stones...

Prabhupāda: (break) Begin immediately. Otherwise...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You won't finish.

Prabhupāda: Why you are spoiling space by making these arches? You could have used the whole place.

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Vijñāna should be enunciated, vigata-jñāna. Vigata, you understand vigata? Vigata means lost. So vijñāna, you can make two meanings. Viśiṣṭa-jñāna. Viśiṣṭa, vi means.... Viśiṣṭa means a full explained knowledge. You can make this meaning. And another meaning you can do. Vi means vigata, lost. So vigata-jñāna. Their vijñāna means vigata-jñāna, lost of all knowledge. That is the word given in Bhagavad-gītā, māyayāprahṛta-jñānaḥ. This is vijñāna. You can explain in this way also. māyayāpa.... māyā has taken away their knowledge, and that is going on as vijñāna, science. māyā has made them rascal, and they are presenting themselves as the man of advanced knowledge. A rascal is representing himself as advanced in knowledge. That is the defect of Kali-yuga.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If I am taking lesson from Kṛṣṇa, why shall I take lesson from such bogus things?

Reporter (3): No, they have also been recognized...

Prabhupāda: Who recognized? Who recognized?

Reporter (3): As exponent of Hindu thought and...

Prabhupāda: :No, no, who recognized? First of all, who recognized?

Reporter (3): No, they too have a following in the West.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They vote. Just like in big democratic country like America they voted Nixon to become president, and when they found that "This man is a bogus," they again dragged him down. So this is going on. We vote somebody to the topmost position, and we see that he's a rascal. So therefore we do not advise. We say just take lesson from Kṛṣṇa, who is recognized by everyone. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say, "Go to a bogus man and take instruction." We don't say.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No age. As soon as he is able to walk, he can be admitted. What is the wrong there? If he comes to the sea and takes bath and jumps, it doesn't require any age. Any four-year, five-year-old child can do that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When he becomes, say, twenty years old, though, when he becomes older...

Prabhupāda: First of all begin. Then we shall think of old. But.... At least when he is older, he will not become a nonsense. That.... We want to save him from becoming a nonsense. That is our duty. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. When the brahmacārī is residing in gurukula, he must be trained up how to control senses. That is the first education. People are spoiled because they are not trained up to become controller. That is the defect of the modern age. And when one is unable to control senses, he will do all nonsense.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana the gurukula children went to the Yamunā for two days. Even though it was a forty-five minute walk one way, they enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they'll enjoy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It was a very nice procession.

Prabhupāda: Very good health.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People don't see what the gain will be. If one.... People don't see, in Western countries, or appreciate what the gain will be by exerting much effort in these ways.

Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them. If before the horse you give them some meat, they'll not take. And give them peas; they'll take immediately.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This śrāddha ceremony. That is also, feeding the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly person, poor man, relative. Lavishly they spend money during three occasions: birth, death, and marriage. During birth the father spends; the marriage, father spends; and death, the son spends. This is the system. So social reformation, but there is no idea how the society will be happy. There is no idea. They are trying to remove this intoxication, LSD, but do not see the cause why LSD has come. They do not try to stop that cause. When the cause is effective, then they are disturbed with the effect. This is the defect. Neither they'll take advice. So how they'll be able to.... Big, big officer, drawing high salary, that's all. There is no effect. Neither there can be any effect. It is not possible. They do not know. Neither they want it. So we are advocating, "Remove these four sinful activities," so nobody will agree. "Illicit sex is our life, to keep a friend, to keep a secretary." And we are advising, "No illicit sex." Then where is life? That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: Māyāpura is the best farm.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it will be still better when our plan is made.

Guru-kṛpā: We want to set the example this year by also giving a big donation to Māyāpura and also building here.

Prabhupāda: At the same time you see that it is not misspent. That is another defect, that our spending is not very frugal and spend like anything. There must be.... But in India they want to cheat you, and you are very expert, being cheated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is our karma. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not karma. You are working sincerely, that's all.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gītā teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so essential. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge. Darwin's theory. It is simply speculation on ignorance, and it has been taken as knowledge. Freud's philosophy is the business of the hogs and dogs, and it has been taken as philosophy. Even the hogs and dogs know how to enjoy sex life. And they are.... On account of sex life, they have written a philosophy. Is that philosophy? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Find out.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: That's what you said yesterday in discussing that philosopher Skinner. He said first we control nature, then we can control ourselves. And you replied, if you can't control yourself, how you can control such a big thing like nature?

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They are tiny, insignificant creature and talking big, big things. This is the defect of modern civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a child trying to catch the moon.

Prabhupāda: He has no importance, and he's talking big, big things. The same philosophy. Hele data bai nakhe yuce.(?) He cannot catch even nonpoisonous snake, and he's saying, "I'll catch up a cobra."

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is very difficult to understand for the demonic. Prahlāda Mahārāja was instructing among the demons. So for them it was difficult. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja was trying. The purport is read, this verse?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes. You say that the problem is that there's a lack of spiritual education in their lives.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect always, especially in this age. There is no spiritual education. Hm? Do you think, Dr. Wolfe, there is spiritual education? Is there any in the school, colleges, universities?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying if there's any real spiritual education in the colleges and schools.

Dr. Wolfe: To produce new sense-gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Ne te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. They don't know.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule. So where is that British rule now? And before that, there was Roman Empire, Carthagian Empire, Egyptian Empire, so many, Mogul Empire, then British Empire, now your American Empire. But these things will not help.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?

Hari-śauri: Left-luggage lockers. Trivikrama Mahārāja, in Japan. He said over two hundred thousand, uh, twenty thousand babies, they put them in a left-luggage locker and leave them.

Prabhupāda: Bus way station? Railway station? Leave luggage. Put it and lock it, then not coming back. Then when there is bad smell.... This is going on. This is simply animal civilization. Taking the last drop of milk from the cow and immediately send it to the slaughterhouse. They are doing like that.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: We are much in ignorance about those matters, I understand that, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Complete ignorance, like animals. So the leaders of the society, if they are serious about advancement of human civilization, they must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness; otherwise, they'll be baffled.

George Gullen: Well, we do not teach about these things...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect.

George Gullen: .... in public schools because we do not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now whether still we shall remain in ignorance or we shall learn this science and teach, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement. No, it is not that. This is science, scientific. So leading personalities like you, teachers, professors and other leading men, they should try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is and join. It is for the human society, it is not for a certain section.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Through what means do you train the human being to become, to achieve his ultimate goal in life?

Prabhupāda: To understand his spiritual identification. At the present moment, this age, all over the world, things are passing on on the bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. That is the defect of modern civilization, that there are two things—one, the body; and the moving force which is moving the body. So they are taking care of the body, but they have no information what is that moving force. They are presenting some foolish theories that the body is moving by chemical composition, by this, that, but actually they do not know what is there. The chemical composition..., what is that? Frankenstein or something?

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: These foolish things are going on. They think the body, by some chemical and physical combination and electric power.... Although they have not been able to do so, but still they'll theorize like that. In this way the whole human society is going on in a deep, ignorant platform. So, that is the defect of the human society at the present moment, and we are trying to mend this defect by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. People are trying to understand. Our books are being very nicely received by the educated circle. We have got so many books. About, for the time, we have got over fifty-four books like this. This book is selling very nicely, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have printed recent edition, 350,000 copies, that is finished. Again we are going to print 500,000 copies. So it is a great science meant for all human beings, not for the Hindus or the Muslim or the Christian. Science, mathematic, is meant for everyone. So it is spiritual science. Everyone should take advantage of it. Otherwise what was the use of my.... I have not come here to preach Hindu religion. Why you should take Hindu religion? You are already Christian. So what is use of replacing Christian religion to Hindu religion? We have no such distinction. We are not after increasing the number of Hindus; we are after making the human being perfect in knowledge. That is our aim.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to understand that our movement is spiritual movement, and they do not understand what is spiritual, the whole world. That is the defect. But still we are going on. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise, nobody understands what is the aim or what is the platform. (Some kids yell "Hare Kṛṣṇa" in disrespectful tones outside the room. Prabhupāda and devotees laugh)

Hari-śauri: It's amazing when you think how we're expanding all the time. It's really amazing.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Therefore they take us as one of these Guruji and Babaji, like this, like that. But when they read our books, higher class, they understand the seriousness of it. They admit that this is India's original, traditional knowledge. Higher, higher circle, they don't want any imitation.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master. That is the defect. So he has to give up this mentality, mastership, then he'll be making real progress. Sarāopadhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, that "I am not master, I am servant." When he's fixed up on this platform, then he's liberated. Or in other words, when he feels pleasure, transcendental pleasure, remaining the servant, that is liberation. But as soon as he continues the mentality that "I want to be master," then he's in the māyā. That mentality he has to give up. Or he has to understand that "I'm not master; I am servant." That is liberation.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "In the United States there has traditionally been the separation of church and state."

Prabhupāda: "I am not talking about the church. Church or no church, that is not the point. The main thing is that the leaders have to accept that there is a supreme controller. How can they deny it? Everything in nature is going on under the Supreme Lord's control. The leaders cannot control nature, so why don't they accept a supreme controller? That is the defect in society. In every respect the leaders are feeling that there must be a supreme controller, and yet they are still denying Him."

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: When we were uncivilized, we were stoning some animal and killing and eating, now we are, business is the same—animal killing and eating. But we have improved the machine how to kill. This is going on. This is going on as advancement of civilization. Hmm? What is your answer? Is that advancement of civilization? Now you are civilized, instead of killing the animal, you just take milk from it without killing and make so many nice preparations, and that is civilization. But killing is sinful. You have no right to kill any animal, even an ant. Because you cannot give life to anyone. It is nature's law, God's law. So infringement on the laws of nature or God, it is sinful activities. So you are utilizing your merit for this sinful activity. Therefore it is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there, but it is utilized for sinful activities. That is defect of the modern civilization.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Provided he lives billions of years. But he's finished within fifty years. (laughter) And his theory remains. The rascal cannot remain more than fifty years, and he's talking of billions of years. This is the defect. Who will see after billions of years? He is finished within hundred years. These are theories only. We see practically. Egg appears like chemical combination, but if you give, proper fermentation will come, fermentation?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The holy name of God is so powerful, as good as God. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā, He has got thousands of names, hundreds of names, and each name is invested with the power of God Himself. So in this age this chanting of holy name of God is recommended, I can take advantage of it, but I am so unfortunate I have no inclination. So easy thing, but still I am so unfortunate I do not wish to take the name of God. This is stated by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. etadṛśi tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi. "Bhagavān, my Lord, You are so merciful, I can be direct connection with You simply by chanting Your holy name. You have given this facility in this age, and still I am so unfortunate I am not inclined." Tam abhyarcya. We are not inclined to worship. That is the defect. When there is question of worshiping Him, so many things we bring in, not to worship Him, just to counteract the proposal. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So we bring all kinds of argument how to not to become a bhakta. That is our misfortune. He says "You become My devotee." We are putting arguments, how not to become His devotee. That is our misfortune. We bring all arguments. This is misfortune.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection. Where are others? They are not present here?

Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Prabhupāda: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: I can find them.

Prabhupāda: That is the defect of modern civilization, that they do not care to know what is God and what is our duty. That is lacking.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Professor Flemings: How do you know if you have satisfied God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the intelligent question. If you do not know who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and how He is satisfied, then you are lacking knowledge. That is being instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā. God Himself is instructing how you can satisfy Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is not very difficult. Anyone can do it. "Just always think of Me," God says, Kṛṣṇa says. "Always think of Me." Just as we think of our friend, of our master, of our beloved, similarly we can think of God also. There is no difficulty. But if you have no knowledge about God, how you can think of God? That is the defect. So the..., how God is satisfied, that is there, but if you do not do it... That is our business, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. God says that "You always think of Me, you become My devotee, you just offer Me obeisances, just worship Me," four things. Anyone can do it. It is not difficult.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we don't eat meat in the... Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say... Guest (2): We didn't know why we didn't. But now I know why, because the animal is a living entity. Prabhupāda: No, God says "Everyone is My son."

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, no, in science there are two con..., theoretical and practical. So theoretical knowledge is no perfect. When you bring it in practical action, then it is science. In the scientific laboratory, they do not simply theorize; they test it in the laboratory. That is science. If you cannot test it by combination of the chemicals which you have analyzed in your..., then it is failure, is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here is a scientist. You have not studied properly. That is defect. So why defective knowledge you are declaring as knowledge? That is cheating. When you have perfect knowledge, then you declare. That is science.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect. So if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the supreme authority..."

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.

Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Spiritual, that I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... (break) (in room) If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rocks? Wherefrom the rock came?

Hari-śauri: Well, they say originally from gas.

Prabhupāda: Gas?

Hari-śauri: Gas.

Prabhupāda: So gas, without water, there cannot be gas.

Hari-śauri: Gas and then it liquifies and then it solidifies.

Prabhupāda: Liquid means water. So as soon as there is water, there is vegetation. You'll find everywhere. Water dries up, vegetable comes.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The yogis in meditation try to find out Him within the core of the heart. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ. The same prayer. The difference is the action. Difference is in the action. So far prayer is concerned, God is great, accepted, either by the Christian or the Muhammadan or the Hindus or the followers of Vedic principles. Now "God is great, glorify Him, and that is the business of human life," that they are not taking. Practically. That is the defect. And that is to be done. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahmā means the great. Brhavad brhanantvad iti brahma.(?) Brahmā means the greatest. Now here we get the information God is great. So naturally one should be inquisitive to know how He is great. That is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Just like if I introduce, "Here is a gentleman, very rich." So naturally next inquiry will be, "How he is rich? What is the position that he is very rich?" These inquiries are natural. If I simply remain satisfied by hearing that he is rich, that is also good. You have got some respect. But if you know how he is rich, to what extent he is rich, then your respect will be increased.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijñāsuḥ.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (5): What is the response in India?

Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.

Interviewer (4): How is the response in the West?

Prabhupāda: Of course it is a foreign thing for them, but still they are coming and taking it very seriously.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You are seeing also Kṛṣṇa, but because you have no love, therefore you cannot appreciate how we are seeing. If you love some person you keep his photograph on the breast. Is it not? So you are seeing Kṛṣṇa in the temple, but because you have no love you think that "I am not seeing Him." That is the defect. They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they have sacrificed everything for worshiping Kṛṣṇa, for dressing Kṛṣṇa, for feeding Kṛṣṇa? They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. They are not wasting their time. But you have no love for Kṛṣṇa. You're thinking that "They have not seen Kṛṣṇa. They are worshiping an idol." That is the difference. One who loves somebody he keeps his picture on his chest. He does not? He throws it, same picture. It is question of love. Therefore it is said, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed that love and bhakti, he can see Kṛṣṇa at every moment. Otherwise it is not possible.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Dr. Ramachandra: Jyotiṣām api taj jyotis tamasaḥ param ucyate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. yes. Yes. So you take light from Kṛṣṇa. And that is full light, and you'll be happy. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't be satisfied with glimpse of light. Take full light. And that is open to everyone just like the sunshine is open to everyone. If you want to remain in the darkness, in the room, that is your business but you come to the... You can come to the full sunlight. That you can do. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. He is speaking everything openly. There is no secret mantra. Everything is there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. This is open to everyone. Where is the difficulty? Unless we deny to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, there is no secret. Everything is open. But our leaders and scholars, they do not like to take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. We are therefore insisting, we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no interpretation. They say, "Why not interpretation?" That is the defect. We say no interpretation. You take Kṛṣṇa as it is, that's all. Then your life is successful.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from the villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from... That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa said... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there. Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṇa you become perfect leader. But we do not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṇa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect. So he cannot lead. Then there will be some mistake and chaos. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41).

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He means to say, sir, that the māyākāra is not there. But the divyākāra is there as we say. Let us understand him.

Prabhupāda: No, He... Nirākāra is there. So far His management power is going on, that is nirākāra. But that nirākāra does not mean that I am also nirākāra. That is the defect. The Supreme Person, it is confirmed by the śāstra. The Absolute Truth is person ultimately.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

So those who are simply captivated by the Brahman, nirākāra, they are in the, just in the beginning of knowledge. Their knowledge is not perfect. That is not Vedānta. That is knowledge, but it is not anta. And Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not know Kṛṣṇa, he's not a Vedāntist. That is my point . He does not know what is Vedānta. The veda-anta means Kṛṣṇa. Anta means the last word. The last word is brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Bhagavān. Unless one goes to the Supreme Lord Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, he's not a Vedāntist. That is my point. Veda means knowledge.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Bhāgavata-dharma.

Prabhupāda: No, this is real dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma is real, Bhagavān. Bhāgavata-dharma means in a relationship with Bhagavān. So if you do not know Bhagavān then what is this knowledge? That is the defect. All dharmas, there may be Christian dharma, Hindu dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Ask any one of them, "Do you know Bhagavān?" "Zero." "Nirākāra." Nirākāra means zero. When you come to the right point, zero. No substance. Therefore they have got this prayer, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. This is going on. Śūnyavādi and nirviśeṣa. Nirākāravādi. We say... There are so many points. We say that "the Supreme Father," the Christians say. So how the Supreme Father can be nirākāra? We have got experience, my father has ākāra. His father has got ākāra, his father has got ākāra. So if you go to the Supreme Father, now how He is nirākāra? I may not have seen my great grandfather but that does not mean he's nirākāra. So I may not have seen God but if God is Supreme Father how he can be nirākāra?

Room Conversation -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sa eva ayam yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. "Therefore I am saying you again, the old yoga system. It is not that because the time has changed, I am changing." Somebody says, "Now it was spoken some millions of years ago, now it is modern ways, I am explaining in the modern way." That is not the system. The system is I am speaking the same yoga system. Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. And they are modernizing, making compromise. That is naṣṭa. That is the defect. Therefore we did not get any benefit. And in the modern countries, before me, so many yogis, swamis have been there for the last two hundred years. Not a single person became a Hindu. Now they are calling (them) "American Hindus." Why? Because it was lost. Rotten thing was given. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. If you supply something to me which is rotten and decomposed, such foodstuff, what shall I get benefit? Now they are getting benefit. Our mission is to put Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission that He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Everyone of you become a guru and deliver these persons, these fallen conditioned souls. That is your business. Now you can say, or I can say that how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no talent. How can I become guru? The answer is yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, you become guru. So we are doing like that. We haven't got to manufacture. We haven't got to take so much trouble or create it by our fertile brain. We are simply repeating what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And see how it is effective.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: And what is the upāsanā you will be prescribing for those people who want to achieve jñāna?

Prabhupāda: Yes, upāsanā. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam (BG 13.8). Vinigrahaḥ, indriya-vinigrahaḥ. Find out this, Thirteenth Chapter. These are the process. First of all amānitvam. You have to surrender yourself that "I am insignificant." But in beginning you are puffed up. "I am so academic. Now I have got Ph.D." Rascals. First, beginning is amānitvam. And as soon as we become puffed-up, a little knowledge... A Little knowledge is dangerous. Then finished. So they are doing like that. A little knowledge, I think, "I have become more than my Guru Mahārāja." Finished. That is the defect. Find out.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Even the state says "Religion is your private..."

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The rascal says. A rascal says. It is not private. No private-public. It is laws of nature. You have to abide by that. The nature's law is "Now winter. You have to cover your body." There is no second law. So that is wanting, that we are... The present defect is that every one of us under the laws of God or nature, whatever you say. And still, we are declaring independence. This is the defect. Prakrti-stho 'pi.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all answer. Suppose you are a big man, but you are product of sex. Are you born differently or through sex? What is the answer?

Rāmeśvara: Sex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sex is not bad. When it is misused, that is the defect. Otherwise, sex is not...

Rāmeśvara: The Western conception is that one man can only have one woman.

Prabhupāda: Why? If he can produce many big men, he can have hundreds of women. But you cannot do that. Therefore you are restrained. You are bad. You better restrain. Don't have sex, because you'll produce cats and dogs. But one who is able to produce great brain, great philosophers, he should produce hundreds. You do not know how to produce good brain. Therefore you stop! Don't produce cats and dogs. For you it is "Stop." You do not know how to use sex. Therefore you should stop.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Āsuram. This is the defect. "Why shall I hear Kṛṣṇa? Oh, here is a big politician. He is commenting." Just see. What is this? For the big politicians, you sacrifice Kṛṣṇa? In the beginning you are finished. Then how you'll make progress?

Guest (2): Politician is wrong.

Prabhupāda: They'll prefer, because to hear Kṛṣṇa is difficult. They'll accept some rascal who will make meaning here and there.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Nowadays coming to power usually means some violent revolution or political maneuvers.

Prabhupāda: They are trying also to correct, but they do not know how to correct. That is the defect. And therefore we take this authority, that "Here everything is correct." Everyone is trying to remodel, but they do not know how to remodel. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: In India, the Māyāvādīs, they have no idea. "Nirākāra." What is the nonsense, nirākāra? The things are going on, imagination. "You can accept anyone as God." This is going on in India, Hindu religion. They do not know that here is... Kṛṣṇa is God. Only few Vaiṣṇavas, they know what is God. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Otherwise nobody knows. That is the defect. They do not know God; they do not know what God wants. So where is religion? There is no religion. Bogus. Cheating. They do not know about God, and they do not know what God wants. Then where is the religion? All bogus. They have created something, mano-dharma, mental concoction. Otherwise how they can kill animals, all other religion killing animals. What do they know about God? God... They say, "Supreme father." Eh, and animal has... He's not son. So wherefrom the animal came? If God is supreme father, then He is not father of the animals?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, the trouble is that when you do book distribution, it's easier to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is for that purpose.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But when you sell jewelry, it's harder to remember Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And our... We are not so advanced yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect. Otherwise, if I am attracted, Hare Kṛṣṇa, for my livelihood I can do anything.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: I've seen in some articles they have written to defend our society from the attack of deprogrammers, sometimes one argument they give is that meditation and chanting are being studied by scientists, and they are finding the effects to be good. Now...

Prabhupāda: Effect will be good. And if we do it properly it will be first class.

Rāmeśvara: Now, these scientists, they are studying Hare Kṛṣṇa meditation, but they're also studying some other processes which are not authorized. And they are...

Prabhupāda: That is the defect.

Rāmeśvara: And they're stating that in general, to meditate, to chant mantra, this is good, this is healthy for the mind.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The thing is that some way or other, if you are near the fire, you'll get some heat, but there is a process how to take heat.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We are changing the dress. And so long we are interested with dress of the body, not of the body, so the person who has got this body will remain animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So people are not prepared even to hear about this distinction, that "I am not this body; you are not this body." The modern civilization has trained up, educated people, in such a way that the more you think yourself, "I am this body—'I am American,' 'I am Indian,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this, I am that' "—and you feel and act like that and create trouble like that, then you are called civilized. Is it not? This is the defect of modern civilization. The more you keep yourself in the darkness of accepting this body as yourself-national feeling, social feeling, family feeling, community feeling-then... But we are speaking from a different platform. Our movement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from a different platform. He begins from the platform of the soul. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. His teaching to Arjuna begins, first of all convincing him that "You are not this body." And He's describing the nature of the soul-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate—in so many ways, adāhyo 'yam aśoṣyo 'yam, so many.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. According to the translation. Not that he becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Mahārāja.

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think that's possible.

Prabhupāda: Alpa-vidyā bhayaṅkare.(?) This is the Western countries' deficiency. They learn little, and they consider that he has become very learned scholar. This is the defect.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: No, but in spite of that your efforts are have even got effect on the Western world also.

Prabhupāda: (interference) ...because it is genuine.

Mr. Rajda: Genuine, correct.

Prabhupāda: Therefore even little effort is giving great benefit. But we must know what that effort should be. Everything is there. We must take advantage of it. But we are not taking advantage. Now we have got good government, very nice. Now you should take advantage of the privileges which are there in India. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. If you take direction from Bhagavad-gītā, then you will get. The whole human society will be benefitted. That you do not know. That is the defect. Even big, big leaders, they profess to student of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know anything. Although it is clearly stated. Who is the leader in India who does not know Bhagavad-gītā? Even Morarji Desai, when he was to be arrested by leaders, government, he said "Wait, let me finish my reading of Bhagavad-gītā," is it not?

Mr. Rajda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Then you can harass me."

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi posed himself as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he did not understand a single line. That is the defect. Gandhi took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as a childish play. Dangerous... Therefore country is ruined. You must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there is authority. You cannot change it. If you change it, where is the authority? Can you change the simple law, "Keep to the right; keep to the left"? No. It is authority. If the direction is "Keep to the right," you must keep to the right. You cannot say that "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then there is no authority. So Gandhi, Tilak, and Aurobindo and so on, so on, they took Bhagavad-gītā as a childish play. Whatever they want, they interpret that. And Vivekananda supported, yato mata tato patha: "You can have your own opinion." These are all nonsense. Therefore country is ruined. You must take as it is. Then it will be... You cannot change the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya... (BG 18.44).

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why one? Let him come. (Hindi) I think I speak in English. Otherwise they will not understand. The first thing is that "I am not this body." This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you do not understand the first instruction, then where is the use of going ahead? This is the defect. Bhagavān said,

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

(BG 2.11)

"My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So take the perfect knowledge. Follow it. You become perfect. Perfection means... That is also stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Real misery is that I am eternal... As God is eternal, I am also eternal. So now I am subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease, due to the physical body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: (BG 13.9) "You are trying to mitigate all kinds of sufferings. So why don't you see the real suffering is here, janma." How to stop this repetition of birth—that is your real problem. But they have made problems, so-called politics, philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this, that, that, so many. But real problem remains, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. This is the defect. They won't take what is the problem, how to solve it. Everything is in oblivion, ignorance. What can be done? Although there is knowledge, there is light, there is practical example, they won't take it. What can be done? So we shall request you all, please don't waste your time in this way, that way, and ultimately come to the conclusion, zero. Take instruction of Bhagavad-gītā in all regards and be happy. It is not difficult. Practical examples are there. Before me, ten years before, whole world, foreigners, there was not a single Kṛṣṇa conscious. Whole history. Now you'll find thousands.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual... So there are two sides. (aside:) Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the thing. Now you should reform them in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and real United Nations will be formed. There will be no question of nationalism.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You do not know. Trustee without designation—where is the trustee? I have already made one block of trustees, that Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In that style you make.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So we'll make up a draft of that style and then, after the draft is approved, you can tell us which trustees you want.

Prabhupāda: That you select amongst yourselves. Why you are taxing me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. I didn't know if you wanted us to do that.

Prabhupāda: You do not know? I have repeatedly said. You do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for Bombay and Māyāpura and Vṛndāvana, I mean.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hyderabad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these three places are most important.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. (pause) Among yourselves, there is no strong man. That is the defect. All like child. That is the defect. And it requires a very strong man. That is lacking. In every minute details I have poked my nose. Anyone, whatever you have got, sit down and select trustees, and the format is there. Make a trustee. So...? (break) ...should be so many copies. Every one of you GBC and important men must have that copies.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is... (Hindi) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Kṛṣṇa wants to impress in the beginning, na jāyate na mriyate vā. (Hindi) Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). (Hindi) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is... (Hindi) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.