Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somehow there is a mistake in the... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Everything is mistake.
Hari-śauri: Who is making the mistake?
Prabhupāda: We have to hear this thing: "Somehow they have made a mistake."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually it is very controversial. This... I read an article from the university of Berkeley, Berkeley and some other western campuses, saying that now the theory of this mutation by which the different species are formed is very controversial at this time. Because of the knowledge in our molecular biology, now what they have thought that this mutation is the cause of this variegatedness is a misnomer, being complete mistaken.
Prabhupāda: All mistaken. Where is the difference, then how do you experiment in the biological class by dissecting animal body? What is the difference in the composition of social construction, I er, bodily construction. You have to suffer. That's why I have said, there must be (indistinct). The same principle is there. Otherwise how the mosquito fly like this and...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a mosquito but they...
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot make mosquito. They can make 747.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a sample like mosquito.
Prabhupāda: No... They cannot, they cannot. That is my challenge. That first of all you bring life from the egg. You prepare a egg composition, and put it in the incubator and let some living entity come out. So can they do it? So why they will speak all nonsense?
Yadubara: They admit they can't do it.
Prabhupāda: Then they are rascal. What they cannot do, they're speaking lots of and getting Nobel prize.
Yadubara: They say how in the future they can.
Prabhupāda: How cheating.
Devotee (2): You said the chicken can do it.
Devotee (2): But they cannot.
Devotee (2): Therefore a chicken, he is greater than you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chicken can do. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The very best way to... I want to use that as an example next time when we preach.
Prabhupāda: But a chicken is better than you. Don't talk nonsense. (laughter) Chicken is already doing in his way. You'll see he's laying down, chemical egg, and fermenting, and within week come. So he's better than you.
Yadubara: They'll say that we can also do that, we can also produce child.
Prabhupāda: Hm? You can, but you, rascal, you've never done it, simply speak.
Yadubara: No, I mean, they can produce children also by sex life.
Prabhupāda: But that is not your laboratory children. That is God's children. That is another thing. That is not your laboratory children. You want to produce children in laboratory? Then do that. That is our challenge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But this, one of our arguments now, we argue that these molecules that (indistinct) for example DNA, even if they make it, still it just... It means it's a molecule. It is not going to function normally, as we find in a living cell, in a living body. So this has nothing to do with the life processes. The molecules they make, they may do so many reactions, but still there is a fundamental difference in the living body and this simple, that... To determine that it's never possible to create life in the test tube. The have timetables, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in about fifty years, that's about the turn of the century, that about 2001 we are going to make such and such bodies and...
Prabhupāda: All imagination.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So many strange things. They even said it that this, we have these five fingers, they said this isn't enough, so we must make six, so the six...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in this way they're cheating.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our brain is a little too small, so we want to do it a little bigger, so that we can think more and utilize more ideas.
Prabhupāda: Where is brain? There is no question. That story, that potter?
Hari-śauri: Oh, the one that was dreaming?
Prabhupāda: Yeah. You know the potter's story?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Hari-śauri: There was a potter and he had one or two pots, and he started to think, he was dreaming, "Oh, now I've got one or two pots. When I sell these pots then I'll make so much money. Then I'll make some more pots, then I'll make more money, like this. Then when I got some, enough money I'll get a wife, and I'll have a family, like this, and I'll have a nice house." In this way he was carried away with his dreaming and he was thinking, "If my wife doesn't do what I say, I'll kick her like this." And he kicked out, smashed all his pots. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: All the two, three pots he had were broken. Then he "Ohhh."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is called to make castles in the air?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually it is like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles)
Viśākhā: We want to try make a film to prove this point that life comes from life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can do that with film?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can show it to colleges.
Yadubara: We wanted to work with Svarūpa Dāmodara and the other scientists...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Yadubara: ...in collaboration.
Prabhupāda: Do it, do it.
Yadubara: Because their book, subject matter of the book is directly along those lines.
Prabhupāda: They say from chemicals, but if you prove that chemicals also come from life...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They got some experiments that we want to do, on purely scientific level...
Prabhupāda: You can do it, it is a fact. You can do it, you'll be successful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, there are some experiments that we can do. They have been doing some experiments last three or four months to supplement...
Prabhupāda: So you say, in the history these are two problems...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh yeah, these are the greatest...
Prabhupāda: So we have trust these two points.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once these two points are solved, then the knowledge will be very clear.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything will be very harmonious and come to a common conclusion. But so long as...
Prabhupāda: We are giving the solution, let them take it. This is our greatest contribution.
Viśākhā: The problem is they believe what they see.
Prabhupāda: Believe or not believe, we shall have to give the people by books, by knowledge, by film.
Hari-śauri: But if somehow or other that sun-moon thing can be proved, then they'll all be finished, completely.
Prabhupāda: It will not be finished because some rascals, fools will remain to support it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's always like that, just like in Mahābhārata...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: there was two, demons and the...
Prabhupāda: So this is his world of duality. You cannot have all support on your side. It isn't...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we always expect opposition.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We must be ready for...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) just like we're opposing their theory. They are not absolute.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science, science also, Prabhupāda, changing the subject level, science also comes to the conclusion that the stars and this universe have..., they die out and then they produce new ones, just like life cycle of the living body. So...
Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in fact, one of the remarks of a scientist, Nobel laureate actually, in Harvard, Mādhava told me he was in American Association for the Advancement of Science. This professor is a professor in biology in Harvard, Boston. His answer was that, "In order to have man in this planet, the stars have to die." That means we come from the stars. The particles, from the stars, then the main involved from those molecules, that star, that come from the stars.
Prabhupāda: You do something. I can give you the idea. But it is fact. What ideas I am giving, that's a fact. Now it is up to you to put it (into) so-called scientifics. He'll... In future millions of years after it will create one living entity in the laboratory, so he's taking all the credit, and God is creating millions and millions already, He has no credit. You'll see their intelligence. What the people will gain even if you manufacture one life in the laboratory? So what is the gain? Why you are spending so much money?
Yadubara: They want to become God.
Prabhupāda: God becoming is far away. First of all, make some living entity. But even if you do it, then what is your credit? Why you want to take so much great credit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called false prestige.
Prabhupāda: Just see, how nonsense they are, misleading people, making them atheist, Godless. Great dangerous, the so-called scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that mentality has to be changed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if even two, three, points we can prove that they're all rascals, then they will change. Simply cheating people and take high salary. This is common sense. Suppose in the laboratory you make one living being. So what is credit to them? The living entities are coming, many millions...
Devotee: (2): You gave the story about the dog...
Devotee (2): ...barking?
Devotee (2): And the man he is imitating the dog barking...
Prabhupāda: And he'll sell ticket. That "I shall bark like the dog." And people will come, "Oh, let us see." This is going on. What is the credit to bark like a dog? There are so many dogs barking, but people are so fool they'll go and purchase the ticket, "How this man barks like a dog." This is cheating. That is the qualification of conditioned soul, he can very scientifically cheat. This is cheating, "I can bark like dog."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Aren't we going a little too far. The scientist says-personally I also feel that they are not all that bad...
Prabhupāda: No, no. They're badly trained up. Not all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are many good things that they have done.
Prabhupāda: That we already admitted. That I can see ten feet, let me credit, take credit for that. But why shall I say, "I can see the whole universe." What is this nonsense? Speak the truth. "Now we have manufactured machine, and this, I have calculation that..." All talking nonsense. I say it is not possible for you to see beyond ten feet. Why you are claiming that you can see the whole sky? That is our protest. You can see ten feet, take that credit, that much. If somebody manufactures the electric lamp, all right. Take this. But if he says, "I can manufacture the sun." Then he is to be beaten with shoes. Talking nonsense. You take this credit, that you have manufactured light in electric bulb, that's all right. But why you claim that, "I can manufacture the sun"? That is their claim, defying God. Because we are explaining God consciousness, therefore we have protest. Otherwise let them move(?), all nonsense (indistinct). But we cannot tolerate when they challenge God. We must (indistinct).