Prabhupāda: Prakṛteḥ kriyamānāni guṇaiḥ sarva... (BG 3.27). You are fully under the control of the material nature. You must submit.
Dr. Patel: Yaṁ yaṁ vā... tyajanti deham. That is how, I mean, Bharat got mṛga because he was continuously in his mind was there.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no such education, that there are dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13) and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, rascal. Duṣkṛtino mūḍha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh (BG 7.15). He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and make his life perfect, but because he is mūḍha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: māyayāpahṛta-jñānam asurīṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama māyā duratyayā. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mūḍhas.
Dr. Patel: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām...
Prabhupāda: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Kṛṣṇa and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyāsa and become guru. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them." "Now, how shall I do it?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply speak. Don't become very big upstart. Simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has done. That's all. You become guru." (Hindi) "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has said this. The meaning of this is this," as Kṛṣṇa left the meaning to be declared or understood by some fools and rascals. This is going on.
Dr. Patel: Sir, what is this
- yathā pravṛttir bhūtānāṁ
- yena sarvam idaṁ tatam
- sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya
- siddhiṁ vindati mānavaḥ
- (BG 18.46)
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Sva-karmaṇā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are doctor. You can serve Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ. According to your, I mean, sva-dharma.
Prabhupāda: This is perfection of life, that...
- ataḥ puṁbhir dvija-śreṣṭha
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanusthitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Even that karma is abominable, sa-doṣam api na tyājet (BG 18.48). "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmaṇā. He did not leave his position as a kṣatriya, as a gṛhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: (BG 18.73) "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) (break) You remain in your place, but you have your ears to hear Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be perfect. What is the difficulty? You remain as a doctor. You remain as a pleader. You remain whatever you like. It doesn't matter. But engage your aural reception to the words of Kṛṣṇa. Then you become perfect. What is the difficulty? Simply sit down and hear what Kṛṣṇa says, Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And if you say that "I simply hear," and if you do not act, no, you'll act because as you go on hearing, your heart will be purified. Then you will be inclined to hear..., er, act.
Indian man (3): I was going to ask this question, but... (laughing)
Prabhupāda: Yes. śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathā kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya śravaṇa... Because by hearing Kṛṣṇa, you'll be purified. Puṇya-śravaṇa. Simply by hearing, you'll be pious. And as soon as you become pious, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ jananaṁ puṇya... (BG 7.28). But nobody will come here. They'll go to the restaurant, club, the playing cards. Nobody will come. We are opening so many centers that the rascals may come and hear and become pious. That will also not do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu regretted that. Etādṛśi tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānu... "You have done so much favor to us, but I am so unfortunate that I have no desire to hear You." (Hindi) So much unfortunate. (break) That I have already explained, that akusam adhikāro. (laughter) Yes. Caitanya... One of the disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he has taught us,
- dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya
- kaku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi
- he sādhavaḥ sakalam eva nihāya durād
- caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam
This is our process. What is that? Now, the Indian system of becoming humble is to take a straw in the mouth. (Hindi) Dante nidhāya tṛṇakam: "So I am taken a grass in my mouth," and padayor nipatya: "I am falling down your lotus feet," and kṛtvā ca kaku-śatam: "And flattering you hundred times. I am submitting you." So any man will agree, "All right, say." So as soon as you give me the chance, then I say. What I say? He sādhavaḥ: "You are a very great personality, sādhu." "Then? What do you want?" Now, sakalam eva: "Whatever nonsense you have learned, please forget." (laughter) "Whatever nonsense rascaldom you have learned, please forget." "Then what shall I do?" Kuru caitanya-candra-caraṇe anurāgam. This is our preaching. First of all we shall...
Dr. Patel: Don't forget architecture. I tell him, don't forget architecture, the important just now. (laughing) Forget other thing.
Prabhupāda: Hm. This is the process. First of all flatter him. When he agrees, "Please tell me..."
Dr. Patel: How he became this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Ask submissively, that "Forget all rascaldom, whatever you have learned, because you do not know what is knowledge. You have simply learned all rascaldom. So please forget it." This is our preaching.
Dr. Patel: Tell me that knowledge by which I know everything, according to that..., that boy? In Upaniṣad?
Prabhupāda: So that is, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. You know everything. By hearing Kṛṣṇa, you know everything. But we'll not do that. We shall stick to that rascaldom, what you have learned. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). (Hindi) (break)