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Swamiji, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world, then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual world?

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"Swamiji, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world, then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual world"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

That is there. But without inebriety. That is the beauty. So everything is there, but here, that thing is reflected, pervertedly.
Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Devotee: Swamiji, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world, then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Does it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Then isn't that... Aren't they bad?

Prabhupāda: But that frustration has no disappointment. (laughter) That is the beauty. Just like Lord Caitanya is manifesting that spiritual frustration. "Oh Kṛṣṇa, I could not see You." He's jumping on the sea in frustration. But that frustration is the highest perfection of love. Yes. Everything is there. But without inebriety. You are very intelligent boy. I thank you. Yes. Yes. There is frustration, but not this frustration. Yes. That frustration, I mean to say, enriches one's eagerness of love for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is there, but without inebriety. Everything is there. Yes. Now see, Viṣṇu? Of course, in Vaikuṇṭha-jagat there is no violence. But Viṣṇu is taking the symbol of violence. Otherwise what is the meaning of this disc and club? So when He wants to be violent, He comes here as Nṛsiṁha-mūrti. (laughter) And He sends some of His devotees to play violence. That is Hiraṇyakaśipu. Because there the devotees are so much in accord with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu that there is no question of disagreement. But violence is when this disagree-ment, atheist. Therefore sometimes a devotee is deputed in this world to play as atheist, and Kṛṣṇa comes to kill him. To teach these people that "If you become atheist, then here is disc and club for you." But it is not possible to be displayed in the Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise, if there is no the propensity of violence... Just like there is sometimes mock fight. A father is fighting in mock with a small child, and he has become defeated. But there is pleasure. So ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Lord is joyful. So there is joy in fighting also sometimes. So your question that everything is there, that is a fact. Everything is there. Otherwise if everything is not there, they cannot be manifested here because it is reflection. Just like in... Of course, this discovery is by the Vaiṣṇava, Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. Just like the love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, it is called parakiya. They are not married husband and wife. But Rādhārāṇī appears to be wife of some other gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa, from childhood, They were friends. So Radhārāṇī could not forget Kṛṣṇa. She used to come to Kṛṣṇa and stand like that. That's all. And He was playing. Kiśora-Kiśorī, They were boy and girl. But there is no inebriety. Just like here the boy and girls mix and there are so many abominable things. Distressful, which is binding their material bondage. So that friendship between boy and girl is there, but without inebriety. Kṛṣṇa had so many gopīs, girlfriend, but there was no contraceptive pills. (laughter) That is the beauty. Here, the so-called love is lust. And there, that is the highest. The same thing, obverted, perverted reflection. Just like in the original tree the topmost part has come down to the down. Similarly, in the spiritual world the highest, topmost level of love, parakiya... Parakiya means love not by marriage life, by friendship. That is there. But there is no such inebriety. It is pure. So perverted means the topmost thing has come down to the lowest. Here, this parakiya, loving other's wife or other's husband, is most abominable, adultery. Not allowed by society, not allowed by the state. But tendency is there. Even one is married, he wants to love another's wife. Or if the girl married (s)he wants to love another husband. Why? That is there. But without inebriety. That is the beauty. So everything is there, but here, that thing is reflected, pervertedly. Therefore misunderstood. There is so many other corollaries. You see? But you must know everything, that without being in the Absolute Truth there cannot be relative manifestation. This world is relative manifestation. So these things are not to be understood in the beginning, but as the questions came we discussed something. But you must know, as the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is emanated from that Absolute Truth. That is the fountainhead of everything. We cannot manufacture anything. It is not possible. But this is shadow and that is reality. And in the shadow... Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all. So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The impersonalists, they think that in the material varieties there are so many abominable inebrieties, therefore in the spiritual world all these things should be minus, void. That is their material calculation. They cannot think that in the spiritual world also there is love. Because here, in this world, the so-called love or lust is frustrated and followed by so many calamities that therefore they cannot conceive that in the spiritual world also there is love. Their idea, in one sense, is right, that how these nonsensical things can exist in the spiritual world? Therefore they make it altogether minus. No variety. Impersonal. That is less intelligence. They cannot understand that photograph is the reflection of the actual person. There is everything in detail. A movie. Actually, the same man is laughing, walking, dress, everything, but it is all false. That they cannot understand. Therefore the Vaiṣṇavas say they are less intelligent. The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā. Then mithyā means it is a reflection or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false. So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā how can it be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow. Shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fountainhead of all emanation. That is Absolute Truth.