Prabhupāda: Eh? (laughter) Story is that there was a joker—His name was Gopal Bahn—of a king, Rāja Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇanagar, you know? Near Māyāpur? Yes, the king of that place. So they used to keep joker to please them by words. So the joker was constructing a new building. So it is almost finished, but there was no opening ceremony. So Rāja advised his, one of his another friends, that "If you can go and pass urine in that new house of Gopal—the joker's name-before the opening ceremony, then I'll give you so much prize. Go and pass urine there." (chuckles) So, "Yes, I'll do it." So... No, "Pass stool." Yes. "Go and pass stool there. Then I'll give you so much advance." So one day he made this plan. He was passing, and all of a sudden entered: "Gopal, I am very much called by nature. Kindly show me where I shall pass stool. Where I shall pass?" So Gopal was intelligent, that it is, there is some plan. "Yes, yes, here is lavatory. You come here." So he is... Everything was false. So then he said, "The door must be open. You pass stool there, but I'll see that you are passing stool and door must be open." "Now, how it is possible?" "No, it is possible. You can pass stool, but you cannot pass urine. If you pass urine, then I shall kill you." Passing stool without passing urine, how it is possible? "So you have come to pass stool. That you can do here, but don't pass urine." (laughs) So that is my position. "You may have hundreds of places, but you cannot live anywhere." That is Kṛṣṇa's order. (break) ...place not to become attached. Yes.
Stool (Conversations 1975 - 1976)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mādhava: Prabhupāda, you say that the living entity, he is thinking about a particular kind of body and a particular activity...
Prabhupāda: Not particular body—particular desire. And according to the desire, Kṛṣṇa is giving him facility through the material machine to give him a particular type of body. Just like one man is thinking of eating anything nonsense. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give him this body of hog. He can eat even stool." That's all. You want to be naked, nudie? So Kṛṣṇa gives him, "So he is very much anxious to become nudie. Make him a tree. Stand up for five thousand years naked." This is going on.
Mādhava: If I desire...
Prabhupāda: Whatever you desire.
Mādhava: If I desire something to appear here now...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you will remain here as insect.
Mādhava: No, if I desire a plate of prasādam to appear here...
Prabhupāda: Then you will go to Vaikuṇṭha. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā...
- viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā
- kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā
- avidyā-karma-samjñānya
- tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate
- (CC Madhya 6.154)
The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy—these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy—material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?" That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency. Everything, necessities, automatically available. That is our... Therefore as soon as one man becomes rich, he does not work. He gets his thing by working others. The tendency is there, to retire from work. They go to a solitary place. They retire. They do not go out. Weekly, at least, they want to stop worker, working. So why this tendency? He does not want to die. He does not want to work. This is spiritual. Why man should work like... Therefore real civilization is that minimize work. Minimize work, save time, and go back to your spiritual life. That is civilization. And this is not civilization, to get the necessities of life, sense gratification, and work like hog and dog. That is condemned. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard for sense gratification which are done by the dogs and hogs. Human life is meant: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure. So that is not possible in this material life. And we are thinking, "By working very hard, like hogs and dogs, we will get happiness." This is... The dogs and hogs, they work day and night for searching out where is stool, and as soon as he gets stool, he becomes very strong and stout. Then sex. Never mind, the mother, sister, daughter. This is hog life. Therefore this particular animal has been... Kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujāṁ means this hog, stool-eater. So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhāgavata. But they have imitated this, "We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. And they are being accountable. If they become so dull-headed, then God's power will make him a tree: "Stand here. Stand up here for three thousand years. That's all. You are so dull-headed that you have no sense, so become a tree so that even if you are cut, you cannot protest. You have no sense, senses." That is the punishment. "If you don't eat prasādam, then eat stool." This is the arrangement. So they are being punished. But they are so dull-headed, they cannot understand.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With their science, they've been able to build so many buildings and roads and bridges and so many things which they consider wonderful.
Prabhupāda: And what you'll do with the buildings? You'll be kicked out. Your building will remain there. Your spoiling labor will remain there, but you will be kicked out. You cannot live there. Who is managing these affairs? "So you have constructed a building? All right, I kick you out. Get out!" Then what is the purpose of building? If you know that "I am constructing this high building, and tomorrow somebody will kick me out," then what is the use? Have you made it insured that you'll not be kicked out?
Viṣṇujana: No.
Pañcadraviḍa: If the animals are happy and the human beings are unhappy, why not live like an animal?
Prabhupāda: So yes, they are coming to that, animal life. Then why do you call human civilization?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if I stop all these activities, then there will be no more pleasure. If I stop all these activities...
Prabhupāda: No, pleasure, you do not know what is pleasure. You rascal, you do not know what is pleasure. Just like the hog. He's also enjoying pleasure, eating stool. So your pleasure is like that. You eat stool and enjoy life. That is your standard of pleasure.
Madhudviṣa: But who...? We can say that because we're above the hogs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Madhudviṣa: But what do the hogs think?
Prabhupāda: Hogs think like that.
Madhudviṣa: They think they're enjoying.
Prabhupāda: If you become hog, you will also think like that.
Madhudviṣa: But let us say just from our human standpoint...
Prabhupāda: Then the human standpoint is... If a hog eating stool, you hate it.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Because he is hog. You become hog. You'll not hate it.
Madhudviṣa: But what if I am human being? I am enjoying this material life...
Prabhupāda: Then why do you hate that?
Madhudviṣa: Well, I don't hate what I'm doing now, myself.
Prabhupāda: No, if you are given a plate of stool, would you like to eat?
Madhudviṣa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then why? Why do you hate? Why do you hate?
Madhudviṣa: But I'm not a hog now.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They eat the hog.
Madhudviṣa: But I am not a hog.
Prabhupāda: And therefore you hate.
Madhudviṣa: I hate it because I'm not a hog.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then you'll have to hate.
Madhudviṣa: No, I want to stay as a human being and enjoy here.
Prabhupāda: Then it is... (?) Then you'll hate.
Madhudviṣa: But someone else has to hate it, not the person who is actually enjoying it.
Prabhupāda: Who is enjoying stool? Human being?
Jayādvaita: They may say that "The hog... It's all right if I become a hog. So it doesn't matter if I become a hog or a dog because I may hate the hog's enjoyment while I'm a human being. When I'm a hog, I'll also like it."
Prabhupāda: So do that.
Jayādvaita: So it's all right.
Prabhupāda: The nature will give you the chance. If you want to enjoy stool next life, it will be available.(?) You enjoy. That is nature's law—"If you like this, come on. Take it." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhutānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and if He sees that "This rascal desires like this," immediately He orders to the material nature, "Give him a body like hog. He wants to enjoy." Brahmāyan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is already stated. If you want a hog's body, immediately it is ready. You can get a dog's body, hog's body. Similarly, if you want devotee's body, that will be offered also to you. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). As you desire, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give you.
Prabhupāda: Anything nonsense you do, that is scientific, artist.
Pañcadraviḍa: Now the scientists have another plan for changing all the plastic to eatable foodstuffs.
Prabhupāda: No.
Pañcadraviḍa: There's something they put on the plastic so you can now eat it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Germans, they extracted fat from stool. And that was used as butter. This is scientific. They'll have to eat stool even. They have eaten. In the last war, concentration camp, they have eaten their own stool. There was no food. So nature will punish them in that way. They'll eat everything. This godless civilization will lead people to such condition of life. Kadharya bhakṣaṇa kare, tara janma adho pate yaya. This life they will eat everything, all nonsense thing, and next life they become pig, cats, dogs. That's all. This will be.
Nalinī-kānta: The scientists are saying that milk is the major cause for heart attack. Milk is a very harmful food. It causes heart attack.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Milk is the miracle food, and they are condemning by a scientific process.
Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. This is anyathā rūpam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyāga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness. But he is so much attached to the material happiness that he cannot believe that there can be any happiness beyond this range. That is his ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore we call them mūḍha, rascals. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "When you become spiritually realized, then prasannātmā, happiness." Otherwise it is not possible. Material thing, you take this side or that side—there is no question of happiness. When you become brahma-bhūtaḥ, spiritually realized, then there is happiness, prasannātmā, immediately. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54).
Prabhupāda: They are intelligent. Otherwise when the dog jumps here, and goes to one man and come here-he's enjoying. It is enjoyment. So you are doing like that.
Amogha: But we cook very nice food to eat.
Prabhupāda: They also eat, according to their taste. The hogs, they eat stool and they enjoy it. So, according to our calculation you are eating stool—the meat. And you are thinking you are enjoying, as the hog's thinking, that's all. It is a question of standard of enjoyment. Otherwise, enjoyment is there in every living sphere. (In car)
Amogha: It sounds very nice. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we can feel unlimited pleasure.
Paramahaṁsa: It sounds too simple to be true.
Amogha: But maybe we can in addition to this unlimited pleasure, just to make sure we don't lose out on anything, maybe we can also enjoy all these other pleasures.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you (indistinct) motorcar and chant. You are working hard like an ass to get these motorcars. You'll get these by chanting.
Prabhupāda: Your preaching is all right, so, provided you preach something good. But when everything is good, then where is the, your preaching required? You preach something. Just like we are preaching. We are preaching. This is actually good for, that he must know what he is and what is the ultimate goal of life. This is required. Material preaching has no value. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ei bhāla ei manda, saba manodharma: " 'This is good; this is bad,' this is all mental concoction." Actually. But real good is: "He has forgotten God. Revive his consciousness." That is real good. Then he'll saved from the so-called good and bad and everything. That is wanted. Materially, everything is one man's food, another man's poison. Therefore there is no distinction—"This is good; this is bad." The stool is very bad, bad smell for you, but it is food for the pig. This is proof—"One man's food, another's poison." So this is only mental concoction, "This is good; this is bad."
Prabhupāda: It is said (Bengali). A villager, very poor man, he says, "I am very poor man. I live on eating the grasshoppers."
Madhudviṣa: Grasshoppers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "I have no money. But when I go to pass stool, I ride on a horse." They cannot pay parking fare, but still they keep a carriage. (laughs) (Bengali). Because the villagers go to the field for passing stool, so this gariba man, this poor man, goes on a horse. Leaves can be also utilized as fire, but they do not know that. In India they collect, poor man, and use as fuel, they cook food. All this dry twigs and this, that can be used as fuel, at the same time the ground will be cleansed.
Madhudviṣa: In India there is no problem with litter. There is no litter problem. No problem about paper and things thrown around because everything that is thrown in the street is immediately taken up by some form of beggar or some form of animal.
Prabhupāda: Municipal sweeper also. (break) Similarly we can go to the place where there is simply pleasing atmosphere. Simply we have to become purified. That is required. But they don't want to be purified, they want to become more entangled in sinful life, illicit sex, meat-eating. That they do not know that "I am entangling myself. Instead of being purified, I am becoming more and more entangled." This is ignorance. (break) ...criticize us, shaven-headed. They don't criticize long hairs, but shaven-headed. Just see. If you don't criticize the long hairs, why should criticize the shaven-headed? But they criticize us. So regularly they are going out?
Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?
Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.
Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.
Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...
Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.
Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.
Jesuit: But everything that God makes...
Prabhupāda: Not everything is good. The pigs considers stool is very good, nice food.
Jesuit: Every man is made with sex appetites. Every man is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. This is natural inclination, but if you can stop it, that is victory.
Bali-mardana: Yes, and to put stool on the sidewalk. Wherever there is dogs, there is stool all over the sidewalk.
Prabhupāda: That is the modern civilization. They are avoiding cow dung and associating dog stool. (laughs) This is modern... Cow dung is so beneficial. That they are avoiding. And they are associating dog stool. The dog mentality. The master and the servant, and the, er, dog, both of them watching. The master writes by signboard. What is that? "Keep away. Private property." And the animal also making, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Both of them are dogs. He is making "Gow! Gow!" by signboard, and he is doing it as nature, but both of them are dogs. One is two-legged dog, another is four-legged dog.
Siddha-svarūpa: Man keeps dog as an extension of his doggish mentality, as an extension of himself.
Bali-mardana: The dog... Sometimes the dog and the person, they look the same.
Siddha-svarūpa: They look alike. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Siddha-svarūpa: It's often seen that an owner of a dog looks just like that particular dog. They look very much alike, and they have similar personalities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact because the subtle body is doggish and he is going to be a dog next life. Tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Because he is always thinking of his dog, always, therefore he is going to be a dog.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjayate kāmaḥ. The desire becomes according to association.
Ambarīṣa: Everybody that's walked by today has had a dog. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Oh, why you are laughing? (break) ...two without association of dog. They have developed that consciousness, dog consciousness. (break)
Bali-mardana: ...thinking when the dog has to pass stool 'cause then they have to take him outside. (break)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the statistics, how many dogs are there in the United States?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, there are. There are more dogs than...
Prabhupāda: Than human being?
Bali-mardana: No, no.
Siddha-svarūpa: I think there might be.
Bali-mardana: There are many millions, though.
Siddha-svarūpa: Maybe dogs and cats combined. (break)
Bali-mardana: The people, they feed their dog and cat so much food that millions of human beings could be fed from the food. Because so much grains are required... They feed them meat, but so much grains are required to produce that food.
Siddha-svarūpa: More money is spent on food for dogs in the United States than for babies.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) In the recent food crisis in the United States, 18% of the people started eating dog food because there's so much... They use such high quality beef and based on so many grains and everything. And they use grains themselves. Milk products. (break) They're even learning how to eat dog food. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...dogs in the beach, you cannot walk without seeing dog. More footprints of the dogs than human being.
Prabhupāda: Because even if you find somebody diseased, still, spiritual consciousness is not hampered. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any impediment. There is no checking. Just like in the Ganges water you will sometimes find the stool is floating there. But that does not mean the Ganges water has become polluted. It is practical. In Calcutta, in our childhood, I was taking bath in the Ganges with my father. Many gentlemen regularly takes bath in the Ganges. And the modern scientific method is: all the garbage, throw into the river. So we were taking bath, and here is some stool floating. So we used to drive away the stool and take bath. The stool is unable to pollute the Ganges water. You will find in India still. The advanced gentlemen... "The dirty water," they say, Ganges water. But you will find practically, that anyone who is taking regular bathing in this dirty water, he is healthy. You will find. It is very healthy. No disease touches him ordinarily. Of course, the body is susceptible to disease, but generally, those who are taking regular bath in the Ganges water, they are not diseased. You will find it practically still. So as the stool floating in the Ganges water cannot pollute the Ganges water, similarly, a devotee, even if you find scientifically that he is crazy or he is diseased, that is not impediment.
Bahulāśva: Not just reading the books but there also must be chanting and following the regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will turn your America as Vaikuṇṭha. And that is your duty, to save your countrymen. I think the America is... The people were pious in their past life. They have got this opulent position. Now they should use this opulent position. They have no poverty. They haven't got to work so hard, and they take advantage of this knowledge. Other countries, they are poor. They are busy how to earn their livelihood. But your country, because you are favored on account of your previous pious activities, you should utilize this position. People are embarrassed for improving their economic condition in other countries. Of course, if one is cultured, he is not embarrassed in any condition of life. But without Kṛṣṇa culture, poverty-stricken people, they are very much hampered. So you have no such problem. Therefore you can utilize your position, this opulent position, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As a learned scholar you should advocate this cause. Why should you waste your time in sense gratification? That is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs. Why this life? That is also... We have described in the Fifth Canto, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). For simply to satisfy the senses, why you should make such a gorgeous program for working? The sense gratification is enjoyed even by the hogs, the stool-eater. This particular animal is mentioned because they are gratifying senses without any discrimination. You will find the hogs eating stool, and they are with mothers and sister and have sex life, that's all. They have no discrimination. So this kind of sense gratification is there in the hog's life. So are the human beings to imitate the hog's life? This is the question. So they are imitating the hog's life, all the human being. This is the defect. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Working so hard day and night, and only sex, that's all. This is life's enjoyment? This is a hog's life. And what else they have got happiness? We challenge them, "Except this happiness of sex, what other happiness you have got?" There is no answer. So this is being done by the hogs. Whole day and night they are searching after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon he gets the stool and they have sex, that's all. Is that civilization, hog's life? And what is civilization? That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God." That is civilization. Work very hard similarly, but for Kṛṣṇa and not for imitating the hogs. Now, why I should be interested in for God realization? Yes, you should be. You must be. Why? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: (SB 5.5.1) "By becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your existentional constitution will be purified."
Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is kāraṇam, that he is associating with different modes of material nature and he is getting a suitable body. So where is that science to understand this subtle work of nature? Where is that science? Where is that education in the universities? You are not free. You cannot say "that I shall live life like this." You can live, but take the risk of next life. Therefore they avoid this question: "There is no next life." That is very horrible. But that does not mean... Just like the, what is that animal? Closes the eyes?
Bahulāśva: I was lecturing in the University of Marin in San Francisco. So I was explaining that, and one man said, "This is just your sentiment. You just have some sentiment." So I asked him if he had a dog. And he said, "Yes." So I said that "When your dog becomes old, will you kill it?" So he said, "No, why shall I kill it. It's a good dog." So...
Prabhupāda: Dog is good; cow is bad. Dog is creating always nasty things, and cow is so pure, even the stool is pure, and she has to be killed.
John Mize: The question has been asked about the unfertilized eggs, why they should not be eaten.
Prabhupāda: Unfertilized, but there is potency of fertilization. You check the progress of one living entity coming out of it.
John Mize: Once the egg is laid, there is no chance for it to be fertilized.
Prabhupāda: No, egg is... The living entity is already there. Just like a woman is pregnant means the living entity is already there. So as soon as there is egg, the living entity is already there. It is taking time to come out. Just in the womb of the mother, the child is taking time to grow and become fit to come out.
Prabhupāda: And somebody will come... Just like in Karachi they have pulled down Gandhi's statue, and I do not know what statue they placed. (break)
Kuruśreṣṭha: ...worship these statues by the stool of crows. They worship these statues by the stool of crows.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. No, if you want to worship, then worship as we do. We have Kṛṣṇa's Deity worshiping. But what is this, keep a statue on open place and the crows pass stool on the head? (laughter) What is this respectful? In the Vedic civilization does not required. They worship deity but not like that, exposed to the crows for passing stool. That is idolism, and this is good.
Brahmānanda: The Christians do this. They have Jesus Christ outside,...
Prabhupāda: In the open.
Brahmānanda: ...exposed. And they accuse us of idol worship.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam (SB 10.14.58). This is a place—in every step there is danger. We are walking in a very nice park. At any moment there may be revolution, whole thing is changed. Whole thing is, becomes fire. Just like, in India now it has become. So we should remember that here in this material world, padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadam, every step there is danger. Give up this place. That is the real intelligence. And the education misleading them, māyā-sukhāya, making gorgeous plans for temporary happiness. That's all. If in the slaughterhouse the animals are kept very comfortably, so what is the meaning of it?
Yadubara: Actually, we're more active than ever before.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are rich man's son, Kṛṣṇa's son. Why shall I work? That is the nature. A rich man's son never works. He enjoys. We are dancing and taking nice prasādam. Why shall I work? What do you think? Poor man will work. Rich man, why they will work? He will enjoy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor of all planets, and we are servants of Kṛṣṇa, a rich man's servant. Why shall I work so hard? The ass will work hard, not a human being. And that is the instruction of Rsabhādeva. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard simply for food and sex enjoyment. That is the business of the hogs. The hogs do like that. They work day and night to find out some stool, and as soon as a little strength, he enjoys sex without discrimination, mother, sister, anybody. Is that life? Tell them, "You are working like hogs, and we are living like human being. That is the difference." If somebody does not work like hog, does it mean he is escaping? (laughter) Just see. And the hog is asking to work like hog. Why human being will accept this proposal? Marshall theory. I was student of economics. He says the human nature is, unless he has got some obligation he will not work. That is the beginning of economics. If one has got sufficient to eat, he will not work. When he is obliged to work for some reason, he works hard. That is the economic theory. So nature is... It is not escaping. If I have got sufficient to eat, why shall I work? What is the answer? This is not escaping, it is comfortable life, not to work and get everything, all necessities. That is comfort. And working hard getting the necessities, that is for the hogs and dogs, not for human being.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...this way or that way? (break) What is that?
Sudāmā: Cesspool, underground sewer. It's backing up.
Prabhupāda: (break) It's coming out.
Sudāmā: It's stopped up. They haven't cleaned it evidently, so the water is backing up with stools.
Devotee: (break) In Dvārakā, did Kṛṣṇa's queens play tennis?
Prabhupāda: What is the use of playing tennis? There is mention that Dvārakā they were playing ball on the roof of the palace, the queens. Maybe tennis also there. (break) ...playing this there, on the roof. Kind of exercise for the woman, queens.
Devotee (1): Only for the women?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No men.
Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. If anyone wants to take advantage of it, he can take. We have got fifty books like this. Those who are interested in the science and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can read all these books. Otherwise, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, That will also help. The human civilization means everyone shall try to become first-class man. This is human civilization, not to remain like animals. That attempt is lacking now. Here the civilization is that the dog is jumping or running, and human being is running in a motor car, and he is thinking he is more civilized than the dog. But the business is running. That's all. The dog is having sex on the street, and the human being is having sex in a very nice decorated apartment and therefore he is civilized. But the business is the same. The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense. Therefore śāstra says, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samanyam etat paśubhir narāṇām: "This business of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is common to the animal and to the man." The man, if he does not understand what he is, why he is suffering this material tribulations, then he remains cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they cannot question, but human being can question. And he should take the answer from these books of knowledge. That is human life. Otherwise, so far eating, sleeping, sex and defense, that is common for the dogs and man. There is no difference. He is doing in his own way, we are doing in our own way, but the business is the same. So human being must go above these four businesses, the fifth business. The fifth business is how to understand God. Otherwise, the bodily four businesses, that is common. Even an ant, it is also eating. It is going from this place to that place: "Where is a grain of sugar?" And we are also running in car this way and that way: "Where is eating?" The hog is also running: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" So... (break) (child makes sounds) Is he chanting mantra?
Prabhupāda: In that television?
Jayatīrtha: I came in late.
Brahmānanda: On the news?
Prabhupāda: No, no, the television. The lawyers were trying to prove handprints and so many things. The subject matter was that a drug-addicted boy killed a friend. Hm? (pause) What is this, some stool?
Jayatīrtha: This? It appears to be a leaf of some kind.
Prabhupāda: Oh, leaf.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in a purport in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you say that even fifty years ago in India the householders had separate apartments for the men and women.
Prabhupāda: Not apartment, quarter.
Devotee: Separate quarters in the apartment. And the husband would not see his wife during the day?
Prabhupāda: No.
Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as... Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). The butter and..., means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says "No. There is possibility." Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: "They should not be kept, should not sit together." Then people may say, "This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted." So the next line says, "No," vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, "it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted." Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a... Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: "The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar."
Brahmānanda: Their argument was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the man should have...?
Bahulāśva: Should have homosex.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes, if an animal does it, then a human being should have the same right to do it also.
Jayatīrtha: Then they can pass stool in the street also?
Prabhupāda: Then what is the difference between man and animal? They do not find any difference?
Bahulāśva: No.
Prabhupāda: Then why they find difference in having soul?
Brahmānanda: Well, that is the Christian. But these modern psychologists, they don't even think that the human being has soul. That he's the same as the animal.
Bahulāśva: Actually psyche means soul.
Prabhupāda: Psyche means mental activities, thinking, feeling, and willing. (break) ...keeping building department different.
Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is that ingredient or what is that thing which causes faith to develop in one? From someone becoming...
Prabhupāda: Purity. Purity. The more you become pure, the faith is firm.
Nārāyaṇa: So faith comes from previous pious activities?
Prabhupāda: No, may not be previous activity. You believe the authority, spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa prasāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Kṛṣṇa, you cannot offer this to Kṛṣṇa, can you?
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Devotee (1): ...seaweed they eat. It grows out further. This isn't edible, they say.
Prabhupāda: Everything is edible but meant for different living entities. Stool is also edible, meant for the hogs. In the last war, stool was also eaten by human beings, you know that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the Germans. (break)
Devotee (1): ...take the deities on a walk down this way, up to the park and put them underneath this gazebo there.
Prabhupāda: Park, that is a park?
Devotee (1): Yes, it's a park up there. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...anantaya kalpa (?). Ananta. (break) ...different language. (pause) What means go away? (break) ...means you haven't got master. (end)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambarīṣa: A catfish.
Prabhupāda: Cat?
Brahmānanda: A very low-class fish. It eats the stool of the other fish.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Black? It is black?
Mādhavānanda: Yes. Black. Yes.
Prabhupāda: We call magur mach. One who cannot digest anything, he is recommended to eat this fish, magur mach. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One living entity is the life of another living entity. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Mādhavānanda: Is it wet?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Satsvarūpa: Ambarīṣa? Is there another way we can go? It's wet.
Ambarīṣa: We can go back around in the road and then walk along that road over there. (Devotees chanting japa) (break)
Prabhupāda: Grass is coming out. Where is the chemical? How the grass is coming out from the stone side? Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...he will go?
Śrī Govinda: Around the island. Right around the island.
Prabhupāda: Very fast going, but where he will go? (break) ...tory?
Prabhupāda: "Oh, yes. What is the wrong? It is pleasure." They take it as pleasure.
Brahmānanda: The priests. They're in the theological seminary, and they are priests, and they are saying that "It is pleasurable, so why not do it?"
Prabhupāda: And what is the pleasure? Stool-passing and urine-passing points are joined together, and it is pleasure. Just see their standard of pleasure. Just like the pigs. With pleasure, they eat stool. So they think it is pleasure. Standard of pleasure has gone down so low. This is Kali-yuga. (break) ...advanced. He has disciple, guru, but he knows that he is suffering whole life for this institution. Still he'll not give it up.
Brahmānanda: He still has hope against hope.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He thinks that "I shall die peacefully if I expand the laboratory house, that I have given something to Vṛndāvana." Did he not say like that?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As if Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him to give this institution to Vṛndāvana. Such a foolish person.
Brahmānanda: Yet he also admits that any boys who have intelligence, who are good students, they will go to Mathurā and Agra and other places for education. Here only the village boys come.
Prabhupāda: (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Eh.
Dr. Patel: The behavior of the sūkṣma-śarīra is more important than the sthūla.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is... The example is given that Ganges water, even it is superficially... There are floating stool and foams...
Dr. Patel: Dead bodies also.
Prabhupāda: So this stool and foam does not pollute the Ganges water. You set it aside and take your dip. That example is given that. External feature does not pollute the soul. Asaṅgo 'ya hi puruṣaḥ. The puruṣa... it is simply our abhiniveṣa. Abhiniveṣa is dangerous. Otherwise the soul has nothing to do with this body.
Dr. Patel: That's right. No, soul is separate from all the three bodies.
Prabhupāda: Exactly like that: one is on the motorcar. He has nothing to do with the motorcar, but if he thinks, "My car is life. Everything my..."
Dr. Patel: Air is coming into...
Prabhupāda: That abhiniveṣa gives him trouble. So this abhiniveṣa can be removed by increasing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is increased by following the regulative duties. Rise early in the morning, have maṅgala ārati, this, that, up to ten o'clock. Means vidhi.
Cyavana: So actually it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He allows us to come here, free ourselves from...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has given you little freedom. He doesn't want to take your freedom.
Harikeśa: You gave two examples in Los Angeles about the master, big master, like president of DuPont walking his dog. The president of DuPont is walking his dog in Central Park. The dog makes him go this way and this way and this way. And you said we are just passing stool and urine in the material world, and Kṛṣṇa is just letting us run here and there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anumantā. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, anumantā, upadraṣṭā.
Cyavana: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta in one of your purports you gave the example of Paramātmā being compared to when there is a circus in a village the government sends one inspector to watch over the activities. Then, when the circus goes, he is no longer there. Could you explain it? (pause)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, if Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of pleasure, then what does He need us for? If Kṛṣṇa is all blissful, then what... We're so, it seems, incapable of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. He is so magnanimous. What does He need us for?
Prabhupāda: He does not ask for Himself. For you. If you come to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy with Him, that is your good. He is self-sufficient. He doesn't require.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are challenging the authority.
Prabhupāda: There is no authority. And Vivekananda said, "You manufacture your own God, whomever you like. Even you can worship stool as God." They say like that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now the Indian government—if this is true—they are giving visas to the devotees, and that means they are favorable towards the movement more and more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It may be due to my interview with Indira Gandhi. I appealed to her that "No Indians are joining, and these Europeans, Americans, they are helping me. And if they are asked to go away, then how shall I maintain the establishment? Indians are not coming." So they might have studied that "They are not politician, and this movement... Everyone will appreciate God consciousness. They are doing something," this consideration. Otherwise it is surprising. They have given three years.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It is very surprising.
Prabhupāda: It is very, very surprising.
Prabhupāda: Well, you are the same Indian. Why you are not lazy here? It is the government's policy or government's management. You see? To become lazy is the recommendation of the śāstra. To become lazy... It is a bad word, "lazy," but actually life means not to work very hard. That is real life. And to work hard for eating, that is animal life, that is not human life. Human life should be very peaceful, without any hard work, and cultivating spiritual knowledge. That is human life, not that, to work hard like hogs and dogs throughout the whole day for find out some stool, where it is. That is not human life. So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy. Is it not?
Indian man (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Perfection of life means ultimately you become lazy; you haven't got to work. That is perfection, they say. Otherwise why they get a cottage in a secluded place and live? All these Americans, they go weekend. They leave aside all working, they become tired, hard working, and they go. That is the intention, that you should live peaceful life, not working very hard. That is human life. Huh? Otherwise why they go outside the city at the weekend? Why do they go? Hm?
Indian man (1): They want rest, I suppose. They want rest.
Prabhupāda: So that means lazy.
Indian man (1): Otherwise they think that they not economically progressing.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that economical progressing? So that means busy fool. Fool, they do not know how to satisfy the economic problem. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) You grow food grains. Then all economic question... But why you are not producing food grains? Why you are producing iron stools and instruments and motor and tire and collecting petrol far away from Arabia? That is... Kṛṣṇa never says that "You do all this nonsense." He said, "Grow food grains." Why don't you do that? That means fools. After all, you have to eat. So you are not busy in growing your food, but you are busy in producing tire tubes, motor cars, stools and instruments. Then how you will get your food? Where is your economic? First economic is, first necessity, you must eat.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But with the tire tubes and nuts and bolts they can make a tractor. And the tractor can help produce food, they think, much faster.
Prabhupāda: No, that is waste of energy. Because you are eating the bulls, therefore you require a tractor. Otherwise you don't kill the bulls. This animal will do the business of tractor.
Harikeśa: The government. It is printing it up.
Prabhupāda: Do you think everyone is making money?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So it's a big illusion? It's a big illusion?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone simply working hard like asses. That's all. This is their happiness. Just like the hog, he's working very hard to eat stool, and he is thinking happy. He is getting fatty. Do you think to work hard day and night and eat stool is happiness?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: But he is thinking; therefore he is getting fat. You generally find the pigs are fatty because they think, "Oh, I am very happy." Yes. One man gets fatty when he thinks that "I am very happy." You know that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: This is psychology. When he thinks, "I am very happy," he gets fatty.
Harikeśa: But if I think I'm happy, isn't that enough?
Prabhupāda: They think. That is another thing. But you do not know what is happiness. These rascals, they do not think that what is happiness. Suppose I have arranged for so-called happiness. Then I am going to die also. Who will enjoy this?
Harikeśa: But I'm not worried about it.
Jñāna: A nice program here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this rascal civilization, whole day "Where is money? Where is money? Where is money? Where is money? Where is money?" Everyone. Busy means "Where is money? Where is money?" Just like the hog, he is busy: "What time...? Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" That is not civilization. If you remain always busy, "Where is stool?" like the hog, then what is your civilization? Whole day working, night, nightshift, dayshift, whole day, the same, like hog.
Brahmānanda: They hold more than one job. They have two jobs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Get money and then drink wine and eat meat and do all nonsense things. This is their civilization.
Jñāna: A farm means also we may engage the people because they are not so...
Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority.
Prabhupāda: No, he is also paṇḍita. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: Śrīmad-Bhāgavata Sanskrit little difficult.
Prabhupāda: Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ-kunape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is just like a bag made of three dhātus: kaptha, pitta, vāyu. Actually it is so. They are thinking that this body is made of blood, muscle, bone, and urine, and stool. This is the constitution of the body. And these foolish people thinking that the living condition is coming from combination of these things.
Dr. Patel: Material things.
Prabhupāda: Not only material. Such abominable things as stool, urine, blood, bone, muscle—all rejected things. And they are so foolish that they are accepting that combination of the stool, urine, blood and bones can create a body..., a life. Body is already there. So if you are so big scientist why don't you take this material and create a life?
Dr. Patel: That is what the Russians say.
Prabhupāda: Russians say that the...
Dr. Patel: That the consciousness comes after the combination of...
Prabhupāda: We are talking of this verse, that if this is the composition of the body, these things are available anywhere. Why don't you create life? Therefore he is no better than the dogs. He has no intelligence that "How this combination of blood, urine, stool, and bone, and muscle can create life?" They are thinking that a combination of matter can bring life force. That is the so-called scientists' theory. So these things are available in large quantity, so why don't you create life? Therefore go-kharaḥ. Their intelligence is not better than the cows and the asses from the very beginning. If they are not cows and asses, how they can think of that combination of these material things can bring in life? When a man dies, find out if there is scarcity of stool or scarcity of urine or scarcity of blood. Bring it and inject it. These rascals, they cannot do it, and still they are calculating urine examination, blood examination and this examination. (laughter) No, I am not saying. It is śāstra. (laughter) Take this dead man's body, and whatever urine and stool is there, examine, and then inject, and come him, let him back, come to life. Then I will understand that your examination of the stool, urine is perfect. This is common question. So long the soul was there, you are very expert to examine stool, urine and this and that. But when the soul is gone... Now the stool is there; urine is there. Why don't you examine and give life? This is our challenge.
Indian (2): But one thing the doctor has got in power, you see. That is this, that suppose he gives a poisonous injection, that is immediately affected, and why the soul is out of it if...?
Prabhupāda: No, no, all injection will be effective so long the soul is there.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Give it to the dead bodies, he says.
Prabhupāda: That is my point, that if... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. If this analysis of the blood, urine and other things can help us, so you can analyze the dead bodies—stool, urine, blood, something is there—and give some injection and let him come to life.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are go-kharaḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri...
Dr. Patel: So long the soul is there. As soon as the soul dies, goes away, the body dies.
Prabhupāda: That is the explanation of the body dies.
Indian (3): (indistinct) that poison is ineffective (several talk at once)
Dr. Patel: No, I think your argument is... (break)
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Yaśomatīnandana: Brahmānanda was...
Prabhupāda: (simultaneously) ...was complaining about his analysis of stool.
Yaśomatīnandana: Brahmānanda Mahārāja says he's like a big ball. Everything just bounces from him.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the general way. (break)
Yaśomatīnandana: ...what they're doing is that you're not this body, so whatever you do, you just become self-conscious and everything is all right. There were some so-called sādhus, they admit, and they say "I am not this body. I am not attached."
Prabhupāda: No, what is that self-conscious?
Yaśomatīnandana: He said, "Whatever my body does, I am not attached to it. I am not this body; I am spirit soul."
Prabhupāda: So I am not responsible.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Therefore they say, "I am not this body."
Prabhupāda: Then why different bodies? If you are not responsible, then why do you get different bodies?
Yaśomatīnandana: "That is because I did not know in the past that I was, I am a spirit soul. But now I know that I am spirit soul."
Prabhupāda: But you did not know in the past. So you were a fool in the past. You are fool now also. Where is your advancement?
Dr. Patel: You did not consult with me but I wanted to know the explanation.
Prabhupāda: No. The explanation... (laughter) Now this doll should be displayed, that laboratory, they are testing urine, stool, and somebody is asking, "Here is a dead man. Why don't you test the urine and stool of this dead man and give him some injection?" This kind of doll should be displayed. The people will be interested. So I will give you suggestion. Not that stereotyped: "If one is doing something, I have to follow that." You should do something...
Bhāgavata: Unique.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. It is already there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Bhāgavata: Things show... Dolls displaying practical examples of the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many things in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Just like a dog is swimming, and somebody captures the tail of the dog, and he thinks that "The dog will help me to cross the ocean," this kind of. So everyone is trying for liberation, but they are catching the tail of a dog for liberation.
Prabhupāda: Time is eternity, but your formation is not eternity. Your formation is temporary. Time is eternity. (aside:) Thank you. No. Time is eternity, that's a fact, but your formation... Asann api klesada asa deha. It is temporary. That's all right. You know, I know, everyone. But it will simply give you pains, although it is asat. That you do not know. Time is... Body is temporary, but so long the body is there, you have to suffer. That body may be a ant's body or Brahma's body. So as soon as you get a material body, you have to suffer and go on examining urine and stool. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...and that is good wealth. And take some urine and find out, "Here is life." That's all. They are examining very scientifically. Why don't you...? The dead man's urine, if you examine and find out some injection and give it in life. Life is gone away, soul, and they are finding out life from the urine. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...but it is very reasonable. They are finding out out so many atoms, particles, but in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that all these atoms are aparā, inferior. Find out the parā, the superior atom. That is life. (Hindi question and answer) But you cannot bring in life by so-called mantras. That is not possible. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) ...can write to these particle men that "You are finding so many, but there is another particle which is one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. Find out that. That is life. That is superior." And quote Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. "Another atom." Give them information at least. (break)...Kṛṣṇa's message. Simply by reading one book, Bhagavad-gita, you become learned.
Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.
Dr. Patel: In imperfection also there can be gradations.
Prabhupāda: Gradations, that I give the example: stool, this side and that side, the dry side and the moist side. Somebody says, "Oh, this side is very good. It is dry stool." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You have to examine in a different way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very good example. Stool is stool, but they are thinking, "This side is very good because it is dried up.
Dr. Patel: We see a thing from any angle, sir.
Prabhupāda: Now, this is also one of the angle.
Dr. Patel: Scientists have got different angle.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no different angle. It is foolishness. Stool is stool, this side or... If you say, "This angle is very..." The same thing.
Dr. Patel: The human stool is a stool for the human being. Does it not become a food for a stray dog?
Prabhupāda: That is human stool.
Dr. Patel: That you see. Does it not become the food for a stray dog, sir? That you see.
Dr. Patel: (Gujarati) But that is what it is, sir. Really, it set me thinking when I was a small baby boy, how this could maintain the body of a dog if there was no something in it. It is a very important thing to understand. Think about it.
Prabhupāda: ...good substance, very good substance. Stool is full of hypophosphates.
Dr. Patel: Whatever it is, but there it is...
Prabhupāda: That was analyzed by a big doctor. You know that Dr. Ghosh who came? Dr. Ghosh from Allahabad? So one day I went to his house, and I saw in a plate something yellow is kept. And "What is this, doctor?" "Oh, that is stool to be examined."
Dr. Patel: The stool, so long it is in your body, it is you, a part of you, because we are all, majority of us are body conscious. There are very few people like you, who are so conscious.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Dr. Patel: We are in the process of making soul-consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Dr. Patel: But still every moment we are body conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. But that is Māyāvāda philosophy, "Everything one. Everything one."
Dr. Patel: Māyāvāda or no vāda, this is a fact, that we are body conscious. We look to the facts, sir, we scientists.
Brahmānanda: Rāmakrishna ate stool because he said, "Stool and prasādam are one."
Prabhupāda: Hm? He ate stool?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Where does he say so?
Brahmānanda: His disciple... One of his disciples told us.
Dr. Patel: Disciple has said, but...
Brahmānanda: As an experiment to show that it was all one, he said that he ate stool.
Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know about stool, but he wanted to eat beef.
Dr. Patel: Meat.
Prabhupāda: Beef.
Dr. Patel: Kāraṇaṁ ganga.
Prabhupāda: Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam, yes. I am layman. I cannot say why I have got this fever. You can... By analysis, you can say. So therefore śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Śāstra says, "You analyze his blood, and if these symptoms are there, therefore this disease is there." That is śāstra, not conjecture. You don't diagnose by simply imagining. No. That is not scientific treatment. You analyze blood, stool and this, and find out what is the germ. Then you analyze. And in the śāstra the symptoms are there, analytical, that "This kind of disease, the symptoms will be this, this, this, this." That is śāstra, not conjecture. Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "This rascal has infected this body on account of his particular connection with the modes of material nature." In the smṛti-śāstra it is stated how one gets tuberculosis, how one gets this disease, that disease, different pāpa. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...culture should be designed to cure the material disease.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Aryan culture. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). That is Aryan culture. But they do not know what is punar janma, how we can stop this birth and death, nothing of the sort. Simply dogs and cats, that's all, jumping, very busy. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That's all. Immediately the verdict: "Oh, he does not know anything. He's as good." So? Everything is going nice?
Prabhupāda: Yes, and it will increase. Yes. In December January it will be very cold.
Aksayānanda: Yes. It'll be almost twice as cold. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...middle of January, there will be cloud, rain. You have no experience, last winter, anyone? Huh?
Aksayānanda: Yes, I have. Still, if we're sincere we'll stay in Vṛndāvana even if blood and stool comes from the sky, if you want.
Prabhupāda: Why do you expect that? (break) ...capati, you apply little ghee?
Aksayānanda: For the guests.
Prabhupāda: And not for you?
Aksayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Aksayānanda: Because it's very expensive and not necessary.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. On the other land. Make a shed immediately and keep some cows. And Viśvambhara, he is experienced. He will help. (break) ...necessary vairāgya, there is no need. We don't approve that. Yuktāhāra-vihāras ca. What you require for keeping health but not to eat too much. But what is absolutely required must be done.
Aksayānanda: I heard that if you pass stool more than once a day you become a bhogī? You are called a bhogī?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Aksayānanda: Does that mean a serious devotee should only pass stool once a day?
Prabhupāda: Don't artificially do that. (laughter) First of all become yogi. Then do it.
Aksayānanda: Yes. Of course, it can only be done by Kṛṣṇa's mercy, but one should at least try for that.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Don't try for passing stool once. (laughter) That does not make you a yogi.
Bhavananda: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47).
Prabhupāda: Antara... Yes. That makes you yogi, not by passing stool. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Huh?
Harikesa: That will be it? The scientist and the egg?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: They are developing a big bee-hive.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is collection of food. The trees also do that. They are called pāda-pa. Pāda-pa means they drink water by the legs. You drink water by the mouth and they drink water by the legs. Pāda-pa. Just like the, what is called? Bats. They pass stool through the mouth. Is it not? You do not know this? Yes. (laughter) You'll find the bats, they are hanging down the head, and they're passing stool. Sometimes man also does so, when there is strangulation. That is very dangerous disease. What is called? Intestine strangulation. Then passing stool through the mouth. In Bengal sometimes they curse, "You'll pass stool through the mouth!" Yes, sometimes they do. Sometimes they eat through the rectum. Do you know that?
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They inject glucose through the rectum. There are many varieties of life. That is the fault of the modern rascals. They want to compare with himself, everything. They do not know that in the God's kingdom there are varieties of life. Otherwise why the 8,400,000? There are varieties. What these rascals know about these varieties? Ātmavat manyate jagat. They think, "Everyone should be like me." (sound of crows in background) Now these birds, within a second, goes hundred feet high. You cannot do. This is variety.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: So they get their food all right. They may not get our food every day, but their food they get.
Prabhupāda: No.... They eat meat, they don't get...
Dr. Patel: They eat even stool. Just like hogs.
Prabhupāda: That also a human being does. You know in concentration camp in second war they had to eat their stool.
Dr. Patel: But the British army had a regulation that they could drink urine but not stool. They cannot eat.
Prabhupāda: You may make regulation, but necessity has no regulation.
Dr. Patel: I.... because I happen to be.... I, I was holding the honorary position of a colonel in the army...
Prabhupāda: Just see, "I am making law: you can drink urine." Just see what is the position. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: In difficulty if there is no water, you can drink your own urine, but you cannot eat your stool. It is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished. By the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.
Prabhupāda: So those.... You are advising your patients to go and drink...?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't say. But that is not so bad, because it contains those hormones.... (Prabhupāda breaks in laughing) It does contain the hormones, I mean it has been analyzed like that, scientifically. It is not to be joked about.
Prabhupāda: No. It is analyzed. And stool is full of hydrophosphites. Yes, that is another.... Stool is full of hydrophosphites.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi to another man) They are bringing.... There is a matter in cikitsā in Ayurveda. Svayāmbu. What is that called? So, Mr.... our er, Mr. Desai. Morarji...
Prabhupāda: He is drinking?
Dr. Patel: ...who lost his premiership of India, he is drinking his own urine.
Man: (indistinct) also.
Dr. Patel: Yes. He is drinking.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Why?
Dr. Patel: And look at him. He's so, I mean, so absolutely healthy. I mean it is, we should not laugh about it, but there is something right in it.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't laugh; I am surprised! (devotees laugh)
Indian man (3): Then how can you avoid that, because conflict takes place.
Prabhupāda: No, it will be, there will be no more material duty. When you wash the shoes of your son, that is love, that is not a shoe washer; you don't remain a shoe washer. You remain in love with your child. Hm? A mother takes care of the child, washes, when he passes stool, that does not mean she becomes maṭharāṇī (sweeper woman). Maṭharāṇī is material. But when the mother out of love washes the child, she is not maṭharāṇī, she is Rādhārāṇī. (everyone laughs) And if you conclude, "Ah, she is washing the stool of the son. She is maṭharānī," that is your mistake. She remains Rādhārāṇī. Just like Mother Yaśodā is binding Kṛṣṇa, that does not mean that His supremacy is lost. The Mother Yaśodā is binding; He still remains the supreme. Therefore Mother Yaśodā became exhausted to try to bind Him. (laughs) And when Kṛṣṇa saw that "My mother is perspiring now, she is exhausted," "All right, let Me agree to be bound up by her." (pause) That's not a fact, otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone who is engaged in My devotional service, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26)." So this is a mistake to say that devotional service is saguṇa. (indistinct) Huh? These are one gentleman came to talk with me?
Saurabha: About the apartment?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Thatching, yes. That is right. So the windows are thatched. So where is the production? Vivekananda is standing as preacher. So where is the preachers? People should have gone there in hundreds; there should have been some program. So where is the program? Simply "Vivekananda house." Lick up the house. (break) ...rows of statues on the beach, many statues—for passing stool by the crows. I have seen in Calcutta one statue of Sir Asutosh Mukherjee. So in the morning, on the day of the birth anniversary, in the morning the municipal sweepers with their brush, they will rub it to cleanse the solidly stuck-up crow's stool with water. It will be done for three, four hours. Then in the evening, big, big men will come, gather, and offer him garland one after another, just like they were offering me. In this way the meeting will be held. In the morning it is brushed with the sweeper's street brush, and in the evening it is offered garland. I have seen it. Here also I see that she has kept Kṛṣṇa's mūrti outside. It is aparādha.
Śrīdhara: Yes. That's on the fourteenth, tomorrow.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...stand where there is water then they will manage everything. Water must be there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...Americans to live like this is totally impossible. They'd have to commit suicide. If they can't find the bathroom they won't know what to do. They have to pass stool. But water won't concern them because they don't bother bathing. They need a toilet, though.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...for taking bath in the junction of Ganges and the sea. Just see how people are enthusiastic, coming from long, long distance, Gaṅgā-sāgara. Gangā means Ganges, and sāgara means the sea. (break) ...it means they keep their lota, you see. (break) ...bathing in this cold water.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...they'd be bothered by the boats being here.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't seem to be bothered by these boats.
Prabhupāda: No. No. (break) ...childhood I was taking bath. I used to come with my mother. She took bath; I also took bath.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The storekeeper says. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And when we tell them, "We will also teach you how to do nothing also and live in a palace," they say, "Oh, no, thank you. That I do not want. I want to work hard."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called worms of the stool. You see? If you take this worm from the stool, "Why you are living in stool? Come here," "No, no. I go back there." You'll see. The pig eating stool, ask him, "Take halavā. Why you are eating?" "No, no. I like it very much." This is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So sometimes when a devotee goes, joins Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then leaves again and goes back to the material world, its just like a pig going back to the stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The materialism and spiritualism is explained by Rūpa Gosvāmī. There is bird, cātaka. So they drink water when the rain falls, and otherwise they will starve. They will never accept any water from this earth.
Prabhupāda: So far plumbing, of course, not very important. That can be done later on. They can use other...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Toilet.
Prabhupāda: Toilet. But they must be habitable. They may pass their stool on the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neighbor's land?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not... But this must be habitable. Otherwise what is the use of engaging so many men?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about electricity?
Bhavānanda: Electricity is no problem.
Prabhupāda: Electricity also can be temporarily, immediately fixed up. That is not difficult. (break) ...saying that "Our work will go on." If you cheat us in this way, then I will not engage you."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we have ten years' work to do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you must finish everything within that period. Plumbing and electricity we shall see. That is not very important. But it must be habitable. So if he thinks that it is possible, then let him go. Otherwise you engage only fifty men. (break) ...he cannot say, "There was no money." That is not possible. If you pay money, he must give the result. (end)
Prabhupāda: Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This is not civilization. This is civilization, tapasya: no meat-eating, no this, no this, that, and become perfect, ideal brāhmaṇa life, satya śama dama śuci jñāna vijñāna. This is civilization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unless you become civilized like this, there is no opportunity of brahma-jijñāsā. And so long you do not inquire about Brahman, that you remain, that pigs and hogs and asses. If human civilization is wasted to cultivate the pig civilization, naturally, "All right, you come here. Become a pig now. Take this body." Kṛṣṇa will say, "Nature, prakṛti, he got this chance to become human being, but has misused. Kindly give him a body of pig."
- īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
- bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
- yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
- (BG 18.61)
Then you get this yantra, how you can become perfect pig, whole day and night eat stool, and as soon as you get another opposite party, have sex. Doesn't matter whether it is daughter or mother or sister. That's all. Take Freud's philosophy and become highly advanced in civilization. Now the Freud's philosophy is being translated in Hindi and so many other languages. We are advancing in civilization, Indians. They are translating this Freud's philosophy, pig civilization. People therefore do not come to us. (chuckles) They avoid us because "They are not pigs."
Harikeśa: Therefore it is still. It's not rubbing against everything because everything is moving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this earth also. According to them it is going around the sun. But we don't feel anything. According to them. And according to..., it is running at the rate of twenty-five thousand miles, and if you, in airplane, it is going six hundred miles per hour, and still there is so many jerking. That is your creation, tiny machine. And God's creation, it is moving. Even it is moving, you cannot understand. That is perfect creation. Pūrṇam. The word is pūrṇam idam, everything perfect. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Iso Invocation). Because God is all-perfect, whatever He has created, they are all-perfect, relatively, all perfect. Just like this earth. It is all-perfect. Whatever you want, you inhabitants of this earth, they are all there. You want air, water, light? Everything is there. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. So you are using so much water, so much light; still, it is perfect. Just like the cultivation. Every year you are taking so much production. Still, again you can take. This is pūrṇam idam, perfectly done. That is God's creation. This is body, you see. You have to capture something. You require some solid thing here. It is there. If it is..., it was soft, only skin, then you could not catch this. How perfectly it is done. It is required here, not the whole finger. This is called perfect creation. The sensation of sex is in a particular position, not everywhere, because if that sensation were not there, then nobody would feel sex, and there would be no creation. This is called perfect creation. The same sensation could have been here, there. No. That particular sensation is there to induce him. Similarly, everything is going on. How to fix it? Every body is made... Every body is made according to the work it has to do. You see? The pig, it has to eat stool. His mouth is made in a different way. The tiger has to eat meat; his mouth is made differently. This is called perfect creation.
Prabhupāda: God has given, giving you the position that "You obey Me, and you get the position," but because you are rascal—you are not obeying—you are suffering.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like a hog takes stool instead of sweetmeat. The hoggish mentality.
Prabhupāda: That is God's mercy that he wants to eat stool, and God has given you, "All right, you eat stool. Take this body."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not that God is not offering him sweetmeats, but the rascal won't eat them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has got such a body that he does not relish sweetmeat.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! Haribol!
Kāśirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda, why do we have this rascal propensity?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Kāśirāma: Why do we have this rascal propensity?
Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal. That is the only reason. Because you are rascal.
Prabhupāda: Rogī means diseased, and bhogī means flourishing, and yogi means transcendentalist.
Hṛdayānanda: Rogī.
Hari-śauri: What is...? A yogi passes stool once a day, a bhogī twice and a rogī more.
Prabhupāda: Who told you. Eh?
Hari-śauri: That's what we were told when we first joined the temple to stop us over-eating.
Jayapatākā: Some devotees were holding their stool for the next day to be a yogi, (laughter) the second time coming. And getting stomachache.
Prabhupāda: Is it a fact?
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Jayapatākā: I heard... They thought that was the criterion.
Prabhupāda: This is called makṣī maṇḍa kanani. (?) A clerk was making a fair book from the rough book. So he went to the toilet room and he was... Like this. So all of a sudden his boss came: "What you are doing here?" "Sir, I am trying to capture one fly." "And why?" "No, I am making the fair copy of the book, but in the original book, there is a fly smashed. (laughter) So I have to paste one fly." There are such fools. Makṣī maṇḍa kanani. "There is a fly, paste. So in the fair copy, there must be a fly, paste." (break) Yes. Unless there is pūjārī, what is the meaning of temple?
Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says, "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it; you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati.(?)What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.
Prabhupāda: So there must be third man, third brain who has created. You cannot do it.
Yaśodānandana: There is actual proof, Prabhupāda, that when these scientists and great, so-called poets, when they die, refusing to admit the authority of God, they die a very terrible death. Just like in France there used to be a great philosopher named Voltaire, and at the end of his life, because his whole writings and existence he tried to disprove the existence of God, he went insane, and he was eating his own stool and urine. And a priest came to him and said, "Why don't you accept the existence of God? You have become such great poet." He said, "I will never accept the existence of God." But he became to the point where he was eating his own stool and urine.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Yaśodānandana: This has been recorded...
Prabhupāda: This is the punishment, yes. Punishment there is always. But they are so stubborn fools still.
Reporter (1): But if I start talking milk I will be equally dependent on milk, sir.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, milk will not. Milk, you take little milk once; that will satisfy.
Reporter (5): What he says that if he starts taking milk regularly, he'll become dependent. He'll become...
Prabhupāda: So that you are dependent, must eat something. But you must eat something which is favorable for you. Eatable, everything is eatable. The stool is also eatable. That does not mean you, human being, you go to eat stool. That is meant for the pigs, hogs. You are not hogs and pigs. But if you become, if you try to become pigs and hogs, then you can become. No discrimination of food means pigs and hogs. And God will give chance to become a hog next life.
Reporter (1): Sir, most of your disciples have their heads shaven.
Prabhupāda: But if you admit this, that after this life you have to accept another body.... Do you accept this? Eh?
Reporter (1): I do, sir.
Prabhupāda: Then that body offered to you, is it in your hand? Suppose the next life you are offered a pig's body. Can you say, "No, no, I don't want it"? That is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: Not very constantly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you're worried that one thing will lead to the next. Actually all we have to do is follow your example.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, we don't have to add anything. What can we add?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the use of it?
Akṣayānanda: What can we add?
Prabhupāda: There is a proverb in Bengali that the crows, they eat stool. But when the crow is very young, he eats more stool. (break) ...tendency always, how to become hippie, as soon as there is little opportunity.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, it's something we have to guard against very carefully.
Prabhupāda: Don't allow them. Don't allow all these.
Akṣayānanda: Even in India people say like that, "Oh, you are hippies?"
Prabhupāda: As soon as you become hippie, immediately your all prestige will go.
Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.
Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.
Dr. Patel: I think Christ taught humility by his own action.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Even Vaiṣṇava...
Dr. Patel: All Vaiṣṇava.... I mean Vaiṣṇava ācāryas suffered extremely than that.
Prabhupāda: Kavirāja Gosvāmī, who has written this immortal Caitanya-caritāmṛta, he is presenting himself, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha: (CC Adi 5.205) "I am lower than the worms in the stool." Just see. He is not hypocrite. He is feeling like that. "Oh, what is my value?" Purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha, jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha. Jagāi-Mādhāi was a...
Dr. Patel: Those two boys Caitanya...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he says, "I am more sinful than Jagāi-Mādhāi." Mora nāma yei laya tāra puṇya kṣaya: "If anyone remembers me, then whatever pious activities he has done, it is all finished."
Dr. Patel: These Vaiṣṇava ācāryas don't allow their feet to be touched because they feel that he should...
Prabhupāda: So why they do not utilize it proper?
Dr. Patel: This is a private thing. They want to be (indistinct) My daughter (indistinct) boy who is studying.... He has his M.D. of London (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: It is settled up. Very nice. And son? Your son?
Dr. Patel: My son is in the Caine(?) Hospital, a professor of medicine.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he is also married? No.
Dr. Patel: Not mass, I mean those people who are in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: They? They are not majority. Therefore we have to reform.
Dr. Patel: Only God will reform them by giving them.... They should be chastised.
Prabhupāda: They are being chastised, but they are so fool, they cannot understand they are being chastised. Just like a dog is being chastised. He cannot have eating, eatables, whole day and night, eating stool. Somebody's stoning, somebody's sticking, and still, he is very jubilant: "Gow, gow, gow, gow, I am very happy." (laughter) This is going on. So this dog's association, dog society, they are suffering in every step; still, they are thinking, "We are making progress." That's all. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Dog civilization. This is not civilization. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Dog civilization.
Dr. Patel: Sir, this civilization is degrading because of the cinemas and things. The mothers are the really...
Prabhupāda: And you do not know. Cinema is not cause. Cause is godlessness.
Dr. Patel: But because the godlessness starts from there.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Now it is all right? All right.
Prabhupāda: (break) And Kṛṣṇa is saying, and they still will not believe. Therefore rascal. It is clearly said. After analyzing all this material of the kuṇape tri-dhātuke... This body is a bag of this transformation of kapha pitta vāyu, tri-dhātuke. So this is not life. That is different. Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam itas tu viddhi me. But these rascals will not believe it. Therefore rascals. Very minutely analyze with this material in the body. What is there? The air is there, the blood is there, the muscle is there, the veins are there, the bone is there, the stool is there, the urine is there—a combination of all these, is that life?
Dr. Patel: No, it is kuṇape tri-dhātuke, kuṇape.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin. In this hodgepodge combination of matter there is the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). On account of this, this body is changing. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ. Very simple thing, but they're so rascal, they will not understand. The whole world is like that. (break) He is speaking Himself. Let us accept it. Every knowledge is there. I am not scientist, but all the scientists come. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara, Doctor, Ph.D., he was defeated three times, four times daily, and then he is now writing book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. You see? And I was not a scientist. He was Ph.D., but I talked on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's assets. That's all. That is my knowledge. (break) ...this knowledge, very practical knowledge, and if we don't accept it, then what is? It is simply rascaldom. No, yes. Yes.
Dr. Patel: It is not possible to.... Can they create a leaf? Then let them create a human.
Prabhupāda: But that.... Therefore we say rascals.
Dr. Patel: But then you don't take it, all of us, together. We are four or five of us here. We are next to you. We are none of those.
Prabhupāda: Then the same theory that "This side of stool is dry. It is good." (laughter) Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because it going to be manure, manure the food.
Prabhupāda: "And the other side is moist; therefore it is bad."
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. That type of stool which goes and manures the crop, that is good, evidently.
Prabhupāda: No, no, after all, stool, this side or that side.... The whole conclusion is that unless one is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he remains in darkness.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore we are trying to enlighten people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: The Vedas, Vedic literature.
Mike Barron: What goes into this?
Prabhupāda: Vedas. Vedic literature, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛk, Atharva, Upaniṣad, then Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā, so many. There is no cultivation of this knowledge.
Devotee (3): If we could.... If we put the stool up here, and then you can sit on facing that way, Mike?
Mike Barron: Hmm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I'll do it.
Prabhupāda: How people are advanced? They should take very seriously.
Devotee (3): So he can sit and face that way.
Guru-kṛpā: Maybe you can take one picture of our books when you go.
Mike Barron: Yes, well, due to problems that do occur from time to time, we.... You know, what people consider to be the false guru, is that all right with you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, any.... Guru means the teacher. So if the teacher does not give you real knowledge, then he is not teacher. He is cheater.
Prabhupāda: That is perfection. If you respect somebody you must worship him. Just like.... Nowadays it has become a fashion. I don't.... That is European fashion, that you respect some gentleman, political or social, who has done good service to your country, but you keep him in a public park and the crows are passing stool on his head.
Hari-śauri: Make a statue.
Prabhupāda: Statue.
Hari-śauri: If you want to glorify some great personality.
Prabhupāda: But we, if we keep that statue in a temple, is it not more respectful?
Guest (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: If I expose the statue on the open field and the crows and birds are passing stool on his head and it is going down his mouth, is it respectful? Do you think it is respectful?
Hari-śauri: It's not an idol. This is a point Prabhupāda is making.
Prabhupāda: The point is how to offer respect, that if you respect a person, so if you expose this form of the person on the public park, giving the crows chance to pass stool on his head, that is more respectful? Or if you keep that statue in a temple and daily dress him and garland him and offer him food, that is more respectful? Which is more respectful? You are doing the same thing, but you are exposing to the stool of birds and crows.
Guest (2): No, see, you have a misunderstanding of the representation...
Prabhupāda: No misunderstanding. It is a common sense that if you have got respect for a person, instead of installing his form—either it is statue or stone, it doesn't matter—keeping it outside and giving chance the bird to pass stool on his head, if you keep that statue in a nice place, which is more respectful? That is my question. It is a common sense. If you have got respect for a person.... You have installed the statue. Don't call Deity. Statue. So which is more respectful, to keep him exposed on the open field or to keep him in a temple?
Guest (2): Well, I think if I was looking at it in your point of view, it would be more respectful to put him inside.
Prabhupāda: That's the.... That is the point.
Guest (4): That's your point of view, not ours.
Prabhupāda: Then? That is your.... I do not know what is your point of view, that you expose this to the open air and the birds pass stool on it and you still...
Guest (2): It is simply a workmanship of man to make the building maybe more...
Prabhupāda: I am just talking on the practical point of view. Which is more respectful? Apart from other points, if we actually offer somebody respect, then you must give him proper respect.
Prabhupāda: I am just talking on the practical point of view. Which is more respectful? Apart from other points, if we actually offer somebody respect, then you must give him proper respect.
Guest (2): But, see, we do not see Moronai in that.... Moronai does not reside...
Prabhupāda: You do not see that the crows passing stool? You do not see it?
Guest (2): He might. He might do something on it. But he's not doing it on Moronai.
Prabhupāda: Suppose your father's statue is there, and crow passing on the nose stool. You don't feel that "My father's statue is..."
Guest (2): Well, I don't think that it was done on Moronai because Moronai is not in that statue.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Moronai, anyone. I am not.... But there are so many statues, so many statues in the open field, and they are exposed to the birds for passing stool. Do you think it is more respectful than one keeping the same statue in a nice sacred temple and worshiping?
Guest (2): Yes, it's nice. They should.
Prabhupāda: So you criticize the person who is keeping the statue within a temple, "the heathen worship, idol worship," and you keep your father's statue exposed for passing stool on his head.
Guest (4): You know, if you're going to liken it unto that, I can also liken it unto your statues down here in your temple...
Prabhupāda: No, take it as statue, but where is good sense, to keep a statue within a temple or to keep it open field for passing stool by the birds?
Guest (4): Okay, here is some of my good sense. You've got your statues in your temple, and I notice there were a lot of flies in there the other night crawling all over it and doing their, whatever they do.
Prabhupāda: So do you mean a fly coming and crow passing stool is the same thing? Very good sense.
Guest (3): Well, flies leave mess.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually, it was painful to see the flies.
Devotee (4): That's why they have the whisk you see. We try to whisk the flies away.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You can try as much as possible...
Prabhupāda: It is very good reason that, "Because the flies cannot be checked, and the crows should be allowed to pass stool?" At least you stop the crows. If you cannot stop the flies, but you can stop the crows. We have done that. We don't allow the crows to come.
Prabhupāda: So we shall go again or go back?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can go again if you like.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is time. They are very much attached to their sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: The stool, you take them and keep it apart. They will go again to the stool. Nature's way, they must suffer. So-called philanthropic activities, welfare activities—useless. You cannot do any welfare activity; you must suffer. Only way you can do them some good, inducing them chanting, that's all. Otherwise no possibility.
Guru-kṛpā: In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class this morning, that was the verse. The greatest welfare activity is if they hear and chant about Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities. That is the greatest welfare activity. So yesterday, when that man came from the government...
Prabhupāda: Government?
Guru-kṛpā: Yes, the social minister came. He did not.... You simply told him to come and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and he didn't, couldn't believe it.
Prabhupāda: They are practically seeing and still not believe.
Hari-śauri: Like Volte. He was eating his own stool and urine before he died, and he was still insisting there is no God.
Prabhupāda: So these rascals, they'll be taught a lesson at the time of death. God is not dead; you are dead. You simply wait to see how you are dead. We don't want to discuss all this nonsense philosophy, just to warn them that "You don't be misled by this rascalism." That is my point. Then who kills you? Who has killed your father? Just see. Who has killed your father and who will kill you? Just wait a few years more.
Devotee (2): They say this is accident. This is philosophy. This is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That action was created by God. That accident was created by God.
Hari-śauri: Also, a cartoon somebody put in the paper and it shows...
Prabhupāda: They'll accept accident, but not God. Just see his intelligence. He'll accept accident, but not God.
Devotee (2): Most of the philosophers who have this atheistic philosophy, most of them are trained...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are suffering. Why don't you see that? Some of them dying by eating their own stool?
Devotee (2): Actually, at the end of his life, he (indistinct) some disease, and he went literally crazy.
Prabhupāda: Disease already there. Old age is already there. That means God is there. They're being punished, but they are so shameless they'll not accept the truth. Same thing. The (indistinct), they're being punished every moment, every step, "No, God is not there." All right. Wait a few years more, God will show either you are dead or He's dead. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: That is māyā. Just like they surfer. What is that? They are in hell. But they have no sense that "What you are enjoying? It is hell." They are thinking they are enjoying. Is that enjoyment? It is actually hell. But he's thinking he's enjoying. That is called māyā. He's accepting something what is not. That is māyā. Hog eating stool, and he's thinking he's enjoying. This is called māyā. There are different grades of suffering, and still they are thinking they are enjoying.
Devotee (3): To really enjoy life you have to suffer a little bit...
Prabhupāda: He doesn't know what is enjoyment. That is the...
Devotee (2): So simply suffering is not a qualification for becoming God conscious then?
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (2): Simply to suffer is not qualification for becoming God conscious?
Prabhupāda: Why suffering? Where is suffering? What you are suffering? We are God conscious. We are suffering?
Hari-śauri: In the West they experience that. That many of the men that go out of prison, they immediately commit some crime so that they can go straight back in...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They think it is very nice. Yes. This is called māyā. He's into suffering, but he thinks this is very nice. It is called prakri badni dasuni (indistinct). (Sanskrit) It is covered. Stool, worm. You take the stool worm from the stool and kick it aside, again it will go.... (laughing) "This is enjoyment. Why you are taking from me?" (laughing)
Hari-śauri: Like the cockroaches. If you make everything clean, they go away.
Devotee (3): In Washington all of the drunks, they go in there and stay in the prison, and it was costing the government a great amount of money. So they passed the law that they were not going to put the drunks in jail any more because it was costing them such a big expense. They all want to go to jail.
Hari-śauri: What about when someone goes to the hellish regions though? He actually suffers there?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Of course. But he thinks that "I am enjoying."
Devotee (2): Useless waste products. They've discovered new ways in science how to use things which can be used and used again and again. For example, newspapers, instead of throwing them away, they can recycle them and make new newspapers.
Devotee (3): They also say they were going to recycle their own urine and stool and use it over and over.
Prabhupāda: How?
Devotee (3): Like in the spaceship. When they go to the moon they recycle their own urine and drink it over again. (laughing)
Devotee (2): Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the most popular philosophy is (inaudible).
Prabhupāda: Madman. (laughing)
Devotee (3): Man has created so many problems in the environment, so they don't think that the problem is man's way of doing things, or its heart. They simply consider if we can make some adjustments in the environment, then everything will go on very nicely.
Prabhupāda: They will try to make adjustments with material nature, everything will be failure. ...hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā. They'll never be able to adjust. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. That's all. (break) ...adjustment to lie down in the skyscraper, and now they are coming. Why they have come to the ground? Punaḥ punaś carvita. Sometimes on the ground, sometimes the sky. (break) They reject the stool and urine and then accept it. They do like that. (laughing) (break) It is rejected. It cannot be utilized. In India still the system is they use metal; when it is broken you can sell it. They take half price and supply new.... They use metal pots, and the (inaudible) is that when it is broken and old we can exchange with new plates. And this kind of bowls you have to throw away. You cannot utilize.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Some people would say, "If everything is a creation of God, then why do you have such a..., why do you present this body as such a horrible thing?"
Prabhupāda: You wanted this body. Therefore you have got this body. You wanted. Just like a child asks the father, "Give me this dress." Father gives him, "All right, take this dress." You wanted a certain type of body. Just like the surfers. They want a body like fish. Therefore they are so much anxious to swim. So father will give him next body a fish.
Devotee: Do most humans go down to the animal species again after human life?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do most human beings fall down into the animal species?
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. He can become a stool worm. (laughter)
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the value for the living entity to automatically pass through all these different species? Does he get any knowledge?
Prabhupāda: To, to finish his life of imprisonment.
Rāmeśvara: How is it benefiting him?
Prabhupāda: He's corrected. Benefit is he's corrected. After undergoing so many species of life, he is corrected and again he is brought to the human form of life, civilized form of life. Let him make his choice. If he again makes his choice, go down to become a stool worm. Go! That is nature's.... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi-guṇa, according to qualities he has taken. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā: (BG 3.27) the rascal, being proud, "Now I have got this life, civilized life. I can do whatever I like to. Ah, there is no God." Then God comes as death and puts you again to become a worm in stool. That's all.
Prabhupāda: No, they get.... Just like we are opening centers, we are giving chance to everyone. If he takes opportunity, he can become realized.(indistinct) Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18). That is the duty of devotees, to raise everyone to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if one is unfortunate, he does not take the advantage.
Hari-śauri: It's a question of fortune then, in the human form, to get that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Obstinacy. If you take the worm from the stool, aside, it will go again to the stool. You see? Again it will.
Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's still, within all the different species, there are still different varieties. What accounts for all these varieties?
Prabhupāda: Varieties of the body, according to the mentality.
Bharadvāja: According to karma?
Prabhupāda: Yes, according to karma at the time of death, mind is saturated in that way, and he gets a body, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Daivāt. Daivāt means "by the superior arrangement." Superior arrangement... One has become human being, one has become cat, one has become dog, one has become demigod, one has become worm of the stool-daiva-yogena, by the arrangement of the supreme controller. But the material happiness is the same everywhere. Either one is worm in the stool or he is king in the heaven, the standard happiness is the same. Then?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ
Prabhupāda: Ah. And these things are available without any endeavor, as we get distressed condition of life without any endeavor. There are two things in this world: distress and happiness. So we don't call for distress, that "Malaria fever comes to me. I shall enjoy." Nobody says, but it comes. So similarly, this is distress. If distress comes by the superior arrangement, so happiness also will come by superior arrangement. So why should we bother about these things? Now tasyaiva hetoḥ praya... Therefore our endeavor should be for understanding ourself, self-realization, and our relationship with God or what is God, what is the nature. These things, athāto brahma jijñāsā, this is our business, not to waste our valuable time for searching after sense gratification. It is not human civilization, and that is..., that is demonic civilization. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja, stressing. Sukham aindriyakaṁ yad... Read it?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Next one?
Prabhupāda: No, no, this verse.
Prabhupāda: These things are not required at all, but they have created. They are called anartha, unnecessarily diverting valuable attention of the human being to waste their time and energy and next life become a dog. That they do not know. This science is unknown to them. They'll believe, "This life finished, everything finished. That's all." (break) ...is working. That they do not know. Life is eternal, and how they are under the cycle of birth and death, nothing. Yāvad jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet.(?) Cārvāka philosophy. So long you live, live happily. But actually they are not living happily. To work in this factory is not happy. They are not happy men. But they are thinking they are happy. Just like the hog eating stool, he is happy. This is gross ignorance. Actually, therefore, there is revolt against these capitalist. There is another unhappiness. Now there is strike. So where is happiness? If there is happiness, why there is strike? Why there is so many strikes? Why there is protest? There is no happiness. But they are thinking... Whole thing is based on ignorance, māyā. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. And the direct method for subduing these anarthas, unnecessary troubles-bhakti-yoga. There is no other. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ (SB 1.7.6). People do not know it. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Therefore Vyāsadeva, most learned scholar, he has made this Bhāgavatam. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣāt. (break) I was translating the Bhāgavata, Eighth Canto, Twelfth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: If he wants to remain in this material world, creates a situation and continues his desire, then he has to take... And when he understands that "To live in this material condition is very troublesome. Why shall I live here?" then he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and he goes back to home, back to... And so long he desires, "No, why not? If I remain in this situation, I'll be happy," then he'll have to get a body. Nature will give him all chances: "Get this body." If one is very pleased to take raw flesh, "All right, why artificially? Take this body, tiger." That's all. Nature is... God is so kind. Before we were talking of God's mercifulness, so if you are thinking that it is very happy life to eat, without any discrimination, anything, so immediately God orders nature, "You give him body of a pig. He can eat anything, even up to stool. Give him this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This yantra, this vehicle, this body, is given to him: "Yes, now you can eat anything, up to stool." And he is very pleased. He wanted it. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He does not hesitate or feel any inconvenience. God is there, even within the heart of the pig, "My dear pig, you wanted a body like this. You have now got it, now eat, here is stool. You eat." And he enjoys. So the living entity within this material world, he wanted to enjoy, "I am the monarch of all I survey." So God gives him all facility: "Whatever you want, you do." Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad yoni-janmasu. He wanted it, therefore he gets different types of body. That is transmigration. But still He comes and teaches, "Rascal, why you are suffering in this way? Give up this plan; surrender to Me immediately." But he is making plan only. Just like in your country, there is everything opulent. The hippies are making plan, "We shall be happy in this way." What can be done? Everyone has got little independence. Let him do.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Under the influence of material desire the entity is born sometimes as a demigod, sometimes as a man, sometimes as a beast, as a bird, as a worm, as an aquatic, as a saintly man, as a bug. This is going on. And in all circumstances the living entity thinks himself to be the master of his circumstances, yet he is under the..."
Prabhupāda: Even in the stool, the worms in the stool, he's also thinking "I have got so much stool to eat." This same mastership. "I am the monarch of all I survey. I have got so much stool." And you just take the worm from the stool, put it here: "No, no, no, here is my enjoyment." This mastership mentality is there in Brahma, and the mastership mentality is there in the worm of the stool. This mentality you have to give up. Then you become liberated. That is liberation. The bondage is that mastership mentality. He's servant, but he's thinking falsely that he's master. Just like your President Nixon. He thought that "Now I have become master of America, I'm president." He forgot that he's servant. As soon as the people wanted, dragged him down. That he forgot, that "I'm servant of the people." So everyone is servant, but falsely thinking "I'm master." That is material disease. The best thing is that if I have to remain servant, why not become servant of Kṛṣṇa? That's all. That is perfection. That is perfect life. Even by becoming a false master of the whole American country, I was not happy, I am now dragged down as a common man, Mr. Nixon, then what is the use of becoming master? It is all false. Let me become servant of Kṛṣṇa; then it is perfect. Instead of becoming a false master of the American country, let me be a real servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is liberty, liberated. Because any stage of my life, to become master is false. That is not possible. He has to be convinced that he cannot be master. Your constitution is to remain servant.
Prabhupāda: Just like to eat anything and everything. It is different association. You go to the restaurant, you eat the intestine of pig. I've seen it. Is that anything eatable? But you have learned it on account of association. Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgos 'sya. And if he remains with the Kṛṣṇa conscious, he eats kachorīs, samosā, prepared by Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. (laughter) It is due to association. By bad association he'll have to eat up to the stool. Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One has to rise therefore above the three material modes and become situated in the transcendental position. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his material consciousness will oblige him to transfer from one body to another because he has material desire since time immemorial, but he has to change that conception."
Prabhupāda: That is material desire, how to become master. From different types, he's trying to become master. Just like in the morning the dogs are barking. He's also master, thinking "Why you are coming here?" Whatever little power he's got, he's asserting his mastership: "Don't come here." The same mentality.
Prabhupāda: Vegetables, ghee, milk, wheat, then what do you want more?
Kīrtanānanda: The wheat is just about ready for harvest.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say we can grow all these things and eat very nicely. Where is economic problem? Yajñād bhavati parjanyo parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. (break)
Kīrtanānanda: It's full of cow stool and urine.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā, for fertilizer?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, fertilizer. Nothing is wasted.
Prabhupāda: You can make gas also.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. That was originally an oil tank. (end)
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lāvaṇyam, now you know very well in the Western country. Beauty increases by having long hair. (laughter) I was just trying to recite this verse only, and now see how it is current. Who expected that this foretelling is there in the Bhāgavatam? To increase beauty, have long hair. Is it not? Now just see. How five thousand years this thing was foretold? That is the proof. There was no hippie movement then. (laughs) But Vyāsadeva foretold that in the Kali-yuga if one keeps long hair he will think himself as very beautiful. There are so many things. Ultimately, with the advancement of Kali-yuga you'll have no food. Food means there will be no food grains, there will be no milk, there will be no sugar, like that. No fruits. If you get fruits, there will be no pulp, it is simply seeds. These things are there. You get a mango, but a mango means simply the big seed, that's all. So how can you check it? If nature's way, things are going to happen like that, what the scientists will do? If there is no rice, no wheat, will the scientists...? They can say replace with a pill, but they cannot produce wheat or rice or dahl or milk, sugar. That is not possible.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? They have fashioned a way for the spacemen that they can drink their own urine and eat their own stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the most scientific improvement. (laughter) Yes. That they can do. (laughter) By scientific improvement, they can drink their own urine, very tasty. That is possible.
Prabhupāda: Fresh air? (laughter) Fresh water, also.
Hari-śauri: In Tokyo there are special machines you can get air, clean water.
Prabhupāda: Fresh, by cleaning the urine? Now they are doing that. Fresh water by cleaning urine. Fat derived from stool. Yes, German people did it. Fat extracted from stool. Scientifically. You can use it with butter very nicely on your bread. This is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the materialists may argue that these activities are not all that unbeneficial. For example, they have made a tractor, and in America they can produce so many grains, so much so that practically they could feed the world.
Prabhupāda: Why do they not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because their mentality is very abominable.
Prabhupāda: Do that. There are so many overpopulation, and you can do it in America. So much land lying vacant here.
Darby: They can make one chemical which leaves the life.
Prabhupāda: Not only that: if you are a sane man, you analyze your body. Now find out where is life. Beginning analysis is the breathing. You take... Now a man is dead. Somebody says, "Now, because his breathing is stopped, therefore he is dead." So what is this breathing? It is simply a little air. So put some machine, and the air may come and go and give him life. Take anything, breathing, then you take blood, then you take skin, then you take muscle, then you take bone, then take your stool, urine, find out life. Is it possible? Then why do you say that life is combination of chemicals? You take this blood, urine and stool, what is called, bone and muscle and air, what is combination, and produce another man. So they are talking this nonsense, and nonsense people are accepting. And they are being paid for, high salary, for talking this nonsense at the cost of the taxpayer.
Prabhupāda: Simply you have to take so much trouble. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. The sense gratification, the standard of sense gratification, is deha-yogena dehinām, according to the body. The pig is eating very nicely stool because he has got a body like that. A human being will not take that. But the pleasure of eating, either stool or rasagullā, the same.
Rūpānuga: You gave the example of a gold pot and an iron pot and a diamond pot. A diamond pot was a demigod, and the gold pot was a human being, and the iron pot the animal. But they are thinking that the food is more palatable in a different pot. But it is still the same food.
Prabhupāda: But they are simply interested with the pots. External. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye... (SB 7.5.31). They are thinking by changing the pot the advancement of civilization will increase. And that is going on. Just like America. You have got very big, big roads, nice cars, everything. You are changing the pot, but the eatable is the same.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next point says, in the column of matter, it says it has temporary complex forms in association with life. On the other hand, life is immutable. From Bhagavad-gītā, it has neither beginning nor end. Now this is what actually we find when a living entity is in association with matter, now matter tends to the form, into definite specific forms. Like human body has a specific form, like that, other living entities have forms. But this is only due to in association with life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As he desired, so he got a form. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). The form is offered by the Supreme Absolute Truth, as he desires. Just like the cloth has no form, but as the customer desires, the tailor gives a form suitable to his desire. Similarly, material world means we have got varieties. In the spiritual world also we have got varieties. Because we are originally of varieties of form, we are getting these varieties of body, being influenced by the modes of material nature. So I'm desiring that if I get such body, I can eat even stool. So God gives you, "All right, you take this body. Become a pig and eat stool." This is going on. Why? Your desiring. You eat, actually. So īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's friendly, He's sitting in everyone's heart, and the living entity is desiring. So bhrāmayan. Desiring means he wants to go here and there. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni (BG 18.61). He gives a particular type of yantra, machine. This body is machine. Body is machine, everyone accepts. This is a machine. If we want to go to India, we ride on a machine, airplane, and go there. Similarly, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni. We want varieties of life, and God gives us a particular machine to ride on and travel, go to heaven, go to hell, become a dog, become a cat, become a demigod, become a tree. This is going on. Transmigration of the soul. God gives us a particular type of body, and we change from one machine to another. This is transmigration.
Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.
Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). He has infected the contamination of material modes of nature, and he must develop a type of body according to that consciousness. Just like if you contaminate some disease, germ, then you must suffer from that disease. This is the mystery of birth. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Otherwise, why there are difference of varieties of life? Sat, asat, something good, something bad. That he does not know. He works independently, defies the laws of nature, and becomes implicated. And on account of dull brain, he is punished, "Stand up here for ten thousands of years. Become a tree," that's all. That is the result of his dullness. "Remain here for ten thousand years, a dull brain. Even one cuts, you cannot protest. You suffer all kinds of natural disturbances." This is very sinful when you become a tree. And they do not make any distinction between life and matter. These things are going on. There is no knowledge, and they are passing as scientist, as philosopher. Why varieties of life? What is the scientific explanation? One life, he is prince; one life, he is tree. Why this difference? Is there any explanation? There must be some explanation. It is also life, it is also life. Why one life has got this prince body, another this tree body? Kāraṇam..., Bhagavad-gītā, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The cause is association of different types of material modes of nature. If you keep yourself dull as the tree, without associating with the modes of goodness, without becoming a brāhmaṇa, then you become a tree. That's all. And if you become a brāhmaṇa, then develop your association with goodness and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore human life should be fully engaged, athāto brahma jijñāsā, simply for understanding Brahman. And as soon as you understand brahma-jānāti iti brāhmaṇa, then you are brāhmaṇa. And as soon as you are brāhmaṇa, then you act as a brāhmaṇa, sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Then you become Vaiṣṇava. When you become Vaiṣṇava, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti, you are hankering after Viṣṇu. Then your life is success. And to keep them dull brained, like these trees and mountains, that is the greatest disservice in the human society. They have got the capacity to become a brāhmaṇa, and they are keeping him just like a dull-brained mountain and tree. That we want to stop this. It is suicidal, suicidal to the human society. They have got the chance of becoming a brāhmaṇa, and they are keeping them as dull-brained trees and mountains. The modern civilization, most harmful civilization. Denying the facility. One has got the capacity to become a brāhmaṇa, and they are denying the facility, to keep him to remain like hogs and dogs. Whole day and night, work hard to find out some stool, and as soon as we get some stool, a little strength, then have sex without any discrimination. This is civilization. The Vedic civilization forbids: nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). If you have created a civilization like the hogs who are working day and night hard to find out some stool, and as soon as he eats some stool, his sex power is agitated, and he doesn't care whether mother, sister or daughter, that is hog's life, hog civilization. Work day and night, and have sex. This is hog civilization. And next life become a tree, become a dull-headed tree, a dull-headed stone, mountain. Or dull-headed elephant. Who knows the laws of creation, how one becomes elephant, how one becomes hog, how one becomes a demigod? Do the scientists know it? Then? Where is the knowledge? The knowledge is "Wait for million years, then you'll see life." Just see.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that with all of the cars going and what not, it probably amounted to about ten million dollars.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that petrol. But what was the purpose? The purpose was little sense gratification, "I shall see something illuminating." What was other purpose? No purpose. Simply to satisfy the eyes, to see something illuminating. That is one sense, eyes. Then there are other senses. They also want satisfaction. There are hands, there are legs, there are tongue, eyes, ears, nose. So every one, every one of these senses, they are engaged for sense satisfaction. So this is the life. But that sense satisfaction is differently exhibited for different bodies. Just like this firework, it was interesting to the human being. Human being has got a particular type of body, so it is interested to see the firework. But the cats and dogs, they are not interested. They do not know what is fireworks. They, while we are interested to see the firework, a hog may be interested to eat stool. If he gets some stool somewhere, he'll be interested, than to see the firework. So because he has got a different body, he's interested differently. We are human beings, we are interested differently. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja rightly said, deha-yogena dehinām. This sense gratification, varieties, according to the varieties of the body. Deha-yogena dehinām. But this is arranged, this different process of sense gratification is arranged daivāt, by the superior arrangement. Daivāt. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām, sarvatra labhyate daivāt. By the superior arrangement everywhere it is available. Either you become Lord Brahmā or you become a small ant, the process of sense gratification, arrangement is there. (aside) You can come forward.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is illusion. That we are trying to describe. But this is going on. As the dog is thinking, "I am dog," the human being is also thinking that "I am American," "I am Indian," or...
Dr. Sukla: Then, perhaps, there is no difference.
Prabhupāda: No difference. That is described in the śāstra. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is made of... Everyone knows what is the composition: the bones, the flesh, the blood, the urine, the stool and so on, so on. The body, what is the composition? This is the composition. So if I identify with these bones, flesh, blood, muscle, veins, and stool, urine, so I am a living entity, I am all these bones and flesh and blood?
Mr. Loomis: Is it better to have a human body as a machine to use than a cat's body?
Prabhupāda: Certainly, in the sense that you can utilize for higher purposes. Just like you have got this human form of body. Therefore you are sitting here to hear me. The dog has no such facility. The dog has got the same legs, hands or mouth and tongue, and so on, so on, in a different way. But it has no capacity to hear about spiritual advancement of life. Therefore the human body should be engaged not simply for sense gratification. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Find out this verse. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. This is the business, tattva-jijñāsā. Tattva-jijñāsā means to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is the only business.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is māyā it is called. You are not enjoyer, you are servant. Because you are willing to become enjoyer, you suffer, that's all. You are not enjoyer.
Vipina: Then He's not fulfilling the desire.
Prabhupāda: No, you wanted to enjoy-enjoy at your risk. Sometimes you'll become the king of heaven, and sometimes you become the germs in the stool.
Vipina: Hm, enjoy at your risk. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is the fact.
Vipina: Instead of under His protection, you enjoy at your risk.
Prabhupāda: Therefore He advises, "Rascal, you give up all this enjoying spirit. You just surrender to Me, you'll be happy." But we don't accept it. Therefore sometimes we are in the heavenly kingdom, sometimes as a worm in the stool. That is going on. That is your risk.
Devotee: Sometimes they say it's just a dream and they say if you are bothering me, and you are just my dream; I don't have to worry about it, I'll have another dream and you'll go away.
Prabhupāda: No but dream is... It may be, but when there is fire, you call it dream, but why do you call fire brigade? When you are diseased why you go to physician? Dream it. (laughter) The major problem is birth, death, and old age, and disease. You do not want that. You must seek the measures. That is human life. Whether birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped? If there is any such life that there is no more birth, death, that is human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the Vedānta philosophy: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about these things." If you don't enquire, then you remain animal. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this animal life. To bring him to the real human life. Animal life means there is suffering—go on suffering. Human life means there is suffering—how to get, how to counteract. That is human life. Suffering—so long you have got this body, there must be suffering.
- nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
- yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
- na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
- asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
- (SB 5.5.4)
The karmīs, Ṛṣabhadeva is warning that nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma: (SB 5.5.4) these rascals being mad after sense gratification, they are doing everything and anything irresponsibly. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which you should not have done, but he's doing it. Why? Yad indriya-prītaya: Simply for sense gratification. Therefore, he advises, na sādhu ayam: this is not good. So why it is not good? Yata: he has already got a body, material body for which he's suffering, and he's again creating the circumstance by which he'll again get a material body and will suffer. Therefore, one should act very responsibly. Not like madmen. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Then Ṛṣabhadeva instructs, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This body, although I have got this body, and the dog has got the body, or the hog has got the body, but these bodies are not meant for being spoiled like the dogs and hogs. The hog is also whole day working to find out where is stool. So if you also work whole day and night for our sense gratification, then where is the difference between the hog's life and my life.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is progress. That I was talking with your Associated Press, press reporter. Just like they do not know that their material life means they are in the prison house for being punished. They are so dull headed they are taking the activities of punishment as regular life. A man is put into the prison house, and his engagement is breaking the bricks. So he has forgotten that "This breaking of bricks is not my business. I am meant for living freely outside the prison house." So these people, less intelligent people, they think that this material life of working hard day and night, just like the hogs and dogs, is general life. That is due to their ignorance. In the Bhāgavata it is said, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1), that this human form of life, although we have got this body, and the hog has also got the body, the hog is working day and night... Perhaps you have seen in Indian village, the hog is loitering in the village. His only business is where to find stool, and eat it. And as soon as he eats, he becomes strong in sense, and then sex. The hog has no discrimination of sex—either mother or sister or anyone. So this sort of life, working day and night for stool, and then as soon as the body is strong, find out sex, never mind whether mother, sister or anyone... This is not human life; this is hog's life. Do you think it is human life?
Interviewer: No.
Prabhupāda: But why this happened, this why question does not come. They are so dull. For that thing missing. And these rascal scientists will theorize, the blood becomes white, this becomes that, that becomes that. And do it. If the blood has become white then make it red. Mix some color or chemical and bring him to life. "No, the life-giving substance is lost." Oh, life-giving substance is not lost. So many germs are coming. Why do you say the life-giving substance is lost? It is there. They do not consider all these things. If matter is life-giving substance, matter is there. Decomposed matter is also matter. Just like stool, a decomposed remnants of foodstuff. That is also matter. Stool is also matter. The same (indistinct) is there. The earth is there, the water is there, the heat is there. What is the loss there? And actually you see from this matter, from the stool so many worms are coming out. How do you say that the life-giving matter is missing? That you cannot explain. Still they will not accept that the soul is gone. That individual soul is gone. This is their intelligence. Give me that stamp. So before... (end)
Indian man: To rest in yourself only. Don't run after worldly things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is not possible for the animal. Therefore to remain happy within yourself, that is a prerogative of the human being. But we are not trying for that purpose. We are trying to be happy by eating, by sleeping, by sex or by defense. This is our platform of happiness. A dog cannot go to the restaurant, but a human being, if he goes to a restaurant and he can eat palatable dishes, he thinks he's happy. But what is that eating? In your standard you feel happiness, whereas on the street you'll find a pig, he's happy by eating stool. One man's food another man's poison. So eating happiness is there but the standard different. Therefore this eating is common affair, and happiness derived from eating is as good by the dog as by the pig and human being.
Indian man: Your idea is clear.
Prabhupāda: So we should know... Happiness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam (BG 6.21). What is happiness, that is beyond the senses. The sense happiness is there by the pig and the man. But his standard of sense happiness is different from the man's. Standard may be different, but the happiness derived from the subject matter is the same. There is no difference.
Prabhupāda: Because he gets money. One who has got money but no children, he takes some adopted son. So the adopted son thinks that "I have got so much money," and he has never worked. He is spoiled. I have seen many adopted son, our... Got lakhs and lakhs of rupees, and in one night he's spoiled everything. Simply after woman and wine. I have seen it. There was one gentleman, Narendranath Singh. Very big, palatial building and very rich man. And I have seen him when he was finished. He was friend of big, big person, Raja Maharlel (?). And one day I saw in Calcutta, there was raining and he was sitting in a rickshaw. And no friend. He had known practically all big men of Calcutta friend. Nobody is coming. "Well Narendra, you are sitting. Come on in my car." Nobody. I was (indistinct). And he was drenching, there was heavy rain. And sitting a... And he was keeping Rolls Royce car.
Akṣayānanda: Keeping?
Prabhupāda: Rolls Royce. When he was rich man.
Akṣayānanda: Sometimes while traveling I've met some very old rich men lying on their deathbed dying. I approached them to help us. They will not give a single penny. It is all going to the son, and the son is atheist. In the house there is everywhere Kṛṣṇa's picture. Very difficult. They don't know that Kṛṣṇa is giving them a chance. They die, within days some of them can die. They are lying on the bed, passing stool and urine. So rich. But they do not care to help this movement. So many people like that. We have to become very expert. (end)
Prabhupāda: The king and the daughter went to a great muni's house, a saintly person. Cyavana Muni, Cyavana Muni. And the daughter, young daughter, out of ignorance, she committed some offense. Took one straw and pierced through one insect. The muni was sitting there as insect. So the result was—because she offended—all the men of the king, means the soldiers, the secretaries, they stopped passing urine and stool.
Hari-śauri: The muni was there in the form of an insect?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: And she pierced him. Oh.
Prabhupāda: So the result was all of them became without passing stool. So the king could understand there is some offense. So... Because formerly the kings were saintly persons. He asked all his men, "What you have done?" Then the girl said, "Father, I have done something." Then he made this plea that, "Kindly excuse this girl... Out of ignorance..." He was very angry, that Cyavana Muni. His attitude was always angry. Then all of them became very much aggrieved. Then he asked, "Whether your girl is married?" King could understand that "He wants to marry my daughter. Otherwise, why he's inquiring." And he was so old... I have got my skin still tight. All loose.
Prabhupāda: I have seen, Gandhi wanted to organize a program, village (break) ...in the field, that this program for constructing toilet in the village, they have spent so much. You know that? The first business was toilet. To restrict them to pass stool here and there, they must have. Now in constructing that toilet paraphernalia, (indistinct), they... Therefore it failed, village organization. Not for that purpose. There were many purpose. Because they had no engagement, so why they should remain in the village? There are so many attraction in the city, and they get money. The factory-wallas, they're inviting, "Come here. You shall get twenty rupees per day." Why shall he remain in the village? So if you can organize in the villages, they are interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and getting nice prasādam, then... One must have some attachment. In the city there are so many artificial attachments. So on what ground they'll remain in the village? Mind, always remember this. Unless you have got some attachment, there is no possibility. Gandhi's program was very nice, village organize so that they may not come to the city and help the capitalists. Remain satisfied in the village. But where is that satisfaction? That is the failure.
Prabhupāda: No, monkeys.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, for monkeys. It keeps the birds out too. We have so many birds that come in. They sleep in the tree and they pass stool all over the place.
Hari-śauri: Pigeons too.
Haṁsadūta: Yes pigeons and small birds. In the lamps they are, in the fans they are.
Prabhupāda: Pigeons will come. (laughs) They'll enter with this.
Devotee: In the grills.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, but even here a screen can be put.
Devotee: Every year we'll have to change the screen.
Haṁsadūta: It is too much endeavor.
Prabhupāda: Much ado about nothing. (break) ...or not?
Akṣayānanda: Now I don't know. Previously they were... (end)
Dr. Kneupper: Mokṣa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is. Mokṣa means to stay in your original body. And bondage means we want different types of enjoyment, so God gives us the facility: "All right. Enjoy." If I do not make any discrimination of food... As human being, we must have discrimination. But if you don't discriminate, then you get the body of a pig. You can eat even stool. If you want to eat meat unrestricted, you become a tiger. Nature will give you facility. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. So according to your desire, you'll get a body. God will give you.
Dr. Kneupper: Is that what is meant when a man thinks when he dies, at the moment...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kneupper: He goes there. Are there many places, let's say, beyond the physical?
Prabhupāda: So many places. Don't you see, night?
Dr. Kneupper: No, I mean beyond this physical, three dimensional universe.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is only one-fourth part manifestation of God's property. The three-fourth part is the spiritual world.
Guest (2): (indistinct) ...must be punished.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created. You have created. Man is the architect of his own fortune. Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under māyā, you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming... "Very abominable!" Oh what nasty thing he is..." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in airplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice.
Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that. That is prescribed duty. And simply whole day working for eating, sleeping, mating, that is the business of the hog. Hog is also whole day working for eating, sleeping, and sex, and defense. Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). You should not live the life of a hog, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool eater. He is also working day and night. What is the business? "Where is stool?" That's all. And as soon as he's strong then, "Where is sex," without any discrimination. That is hog's life. So human life is not meant for spoiling like hog's life. Therefore niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. You should classify yourself amongst the four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), and then your prescribed duties are there. If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, then śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). If you want to be kṣatriya, tejaḥ... What is that? Tejaḥ śauryaṁ yujyaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam īśvara-bhāvaś ca kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam. If you want to be a vaiśya, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). And if you want to remain a śūdra, paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. And that is prescribed duty. You classify yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, by quality, not by caste or by whims, no. Actually by qualification. Then you engage yourself in that duty.
Dr. Patel: But whatever you do... (laughs) You do not know...
Prabhupāda: No, whatever is there is there. Let it remain. They also require some shelter.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) Why you are getting swelling or whether weakness of the heart. There are various reasons why did you get the swelling of he leg you know. We must find out by biochemical examination of the internal flesh. Such as the blood, urine, and stool, and put you on the right information. Now if you follow or not is your own sweet will, sir.
Prabhupāda: Nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ, bālasya neha pitarau śaraṇaṁ nṛsiṁha. Na ārtasya ca agadam. Tāvad vibho tanu-bhṛtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām (SB 7.9.19). If Kṛṣṇa neglects somebody then these things will not help.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa never neglects anybody. You have told once so. It is we, our own actions which we, I mean, forget. We get. If you walk too much you get tired. If you sit down you do not. If you walk then there is swelling of the leg, sir. Eh? So it is not Kṛṣṇa. I mean, this is your own saying, eh? I am not manufacturing my own arguments.
Prabhupāda: No, the śāstra says, nārtasya cāga... There is no guarantee. But we may try but there is no guarantee.
Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.
Prabhupāda: So anyone's question about this, this misdirected civilization? In India there was no such misguided civilization. Now they have learned how to misguide people, and they have taken this ideal, that "Unless we become like the Europeans and Americans our progress is checked." This is going on. Actually there is no progress. We are condemned. Why they should waste so much energy not for progress. Before British period, India, there were cities, but not like this because their energy was utilized. Cities were constructed especially in pilgrimages, like Mathurā. Mathurā is very old city, but that is a pilgrimage. Dvārakā, that is also very old city. First of all there was no need of big, big cities because there was no industry. They did not know what is industry. And there were ample food-food grains, milk, vegetables. Those who were eating meat, they were eating small, nonimportant animals like goats, hogs, and they never touched cows. Cows are very important animals. Even the stool, urine, is important. In the agricultural field the cows, passing stool, they will also benefit. Natural fertilizing.
Dr. Patel: I grant you. And take the fruit and realize.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's there. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni (BG 18.61). If you have done then you must suffer or enjoy. That's all. That is your business. You get... Now you have created a karma. You have to enjoy it by accepting a certain type of body. Now you take it. I ask māyā, "Give him this body. He wants to eat stool. All right. Give him the body of a hog." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The yantra, the body is supplied by māyā under the order. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate (BG 9.10). Everything is there. But these things they do not preach. They preach unnecessarily nonviolence. From Bhagavad-gītā, which is being taught in the battlefield, and Gandhi wants to draw some meaning—nonviolence. Immediately it is, what is the value? Not only Gandhi. Everyone. If he can give a new interpretation... I think in Bombay, was there any Dr. Reilly? He wrote some Bhagavad-gītā commentary as...
Dr. Patel: I think it's not that Reilly. Not that Reilly, Dr. Reilly, but there is another Reilly in Baroda who taught...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.
| Page Title: | Stool (Conversations 1975 - 1976) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=114, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 114 |