Śyāmasundara: He says that in a way because he said that at this stage one stands transparently before God, and this is his integrity, when he realizes his...
Prabhupāda: Transparently before God means to be engaged in His service. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching that way. They are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, twenty-four hours; therefore they are self-realized. They are standing on their self. That is mukti. That is liberated. And those who are, these karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis, they are not engaged in the self. They are trying to realize self. Therefore all these students, or the disciples of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are liberated persons, because they are acting as such. So everyone should join this movement and become liberated, immediately. You preach like that. Try to understand and preach.
Śyāmasundara: They say that this is an authentic position, that it...
Prabhupāda: This is authentic position. We are serving Kṛṣṇa. This is authentic position. My position is part and parcel, to serve Kṛṣṇa. So actually I am engaged in service of Kṛṣṇa. That is my authentic position. This authentic position is at the present moment a little confused. But that now I am liberated, healthy, so if I continue healthy, that is my real position. Then I will keep always my self healthy. That's all. There is no change.
Śyāmasundara: And also this word integrity is there. It means integrated, or complete.
Prabhupāda: The more you become practiced to Kṛṣṇa's service, the more you are established, integrated. You don't fall down. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: So when someone has integrity, you can see that they are one-minded.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are. Our concern is Kṛṣṇa. At ārati, we stand before Kṛṣṇa. The integrity is that Kṛṣṇa is the shelter. We are all serving, chanting Kṛṣṇa, ārati, someone is chanting, someone is dancing. The center is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, when you go to preach, when you write books, when you go to the play, the center is Kṛṣṇa. Then all our activities are on the platform of liberation.
Śyāmasundara: The idea is there also in this philosophy, that all of us know what is the real position, but that either due to weakness or a poor fund of knowledge or defiance...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we require guidance of the spiritual master so that we may not fall down.
Śyāmasundara: ...or defiance, sometimes due to, even though we know the real position, we defy it, then we become sinful.
Prabhupāda: Defiance, there is no question. If you are actually engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, where is the question of defiance?
Śyāmasundara: Well, he is talking about someone who may know what is the law of God, but he defies it. Someone who wants to sinfully act. Either due to weakness or defiance we sin, but he says that the self-integrated personality is willing to be himself. He surrenders to what his real position is. This is called self-realization.
Prabhupāda: No. This self-realization practically—to be self means to remain as part and parcel, to serve.
Śyāmasundara: He says that full self equals full will. That when we are fully ourself, then we are fully willed.
Prabhupāda: What you mean? That is Māyāvādī. Full self, what is that? Then what is the question of part and parcel?
Śyāmasundara: That means when we make decisions that they are...
Prabhupāda: You cannot make decision. If you are part and parcel, then you have to take decisions from the whole. You cannot make. The finger does not make decision. I say "Finger, stand up like this, please."
Śyāmasundara: So just like when there are decisions to be made, because a self-realized soul automatically...
Prabhupāda: The decision is that I shall serve Kṛṣṇa as soon as ordered. But the order comes from the superior. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is ordered by Kṛṣṇa to fight, so he has to fight. That is all. Arjuna's decision was wrong, but when he takes decision from Kṛṣṇa, that is right. So we have to take decision from Kṛṣṇa's representative. That is right. We cannot make our own decisions. That is wrong.