Bob: (break) ...who is honest?
Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is honesty. How he can be honest? If you know what is honesty, then you can become honest. But you do not know what is honesty. What is honesty? First of all explain.
Bob: Honesty is doing what you really feel is right.
Prabhupāda: Then a thief is feeling that "I must steal to provide my children. It is right." Does it mean that he's honest? Everyone thinks... The butcher, he thinks, "It is my life. I must cut throat of the animals daily." Just like that, what is that, vyādha, vyādha... When Nārada Muni met him?
Devotee: Oh, Mṛgāri.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Mṛgāri. "Why you are killing in this way?" "Oh, it is my business. My father taught it." So he was honestly doing that. So feeling of honesty depends on different culture. A thief's culture is different. He thinks stealing is honesty.
Bob: So what is honesty?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my question. (laughter) Real honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's property. This is honesty. Just like this is my table. If you want to take it away while going, is that honesty? No. So therefore the simple definition of honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's right. That is honesty.
Bob: So somebody who is honest will be in the mode of goodness. Would that be correct?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly. Because mode of goodness means knowledge. So if you know, if you're well conversant that "This table does not belong to me; it belongs to Swamiji," so you'll not try to take it away. Therefore one must know, be thoroughly well conversant; then he can be honest.
Bob: So... Now, you had said the mode of goodness was knowledge of God, but somebody may be honest without having very much knowledge of God.
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Bob: You know, without being honest, without thinking they're honest because it is God's wishes, they just feel like they ought to be honest.
Prabhupāda: No. God wishes everyone should be honest. Why God should think otherwise?
Bob: So you may follow God's wishes without knowing you are following God's wishes. Like somebody may be in the mode of...
Prabhupāda: No. Without knowing following, that is absurd. Without knowing following that is absurd. You must know that this is the order of God. And if you follow that, then that is honesty.
Bob: But somebody would not be honest without knowing God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is the supreme proprietor. See... God is the supreme proprietor and He's the supreme enjoyer and He's the supreme friend. That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. If anyone knows these three things, then he is in full knowledge. These three things only, that God is the proprietor of everything, God is friend of everyone, and God is the enjoyer of everything. Just like the same example, in your body... Everyone knows in the body the stomach is the enjoyer. Not the hands, legs, eyes, ears. They are simply to help the stomach. Eyes, the vulture goes seven miles up to see where is food for the stomach. Is it not?
Bob: That's so.
Prabhupāda: Then the wings fly there, and the jaws catch the food, and after all he puts into the mouth. Similarly, as in this body, this particular example, the stomach is the enjoyer, similarly, the central figure of whole cosmic manifestation, material or spiritual, the central figure is Kṛṣṇa, God. He's the enjoyer. We can understand. As in my this particular body, the body is also a creation. The body has got the same mechanism as you will find out in the whole universe. The same mechanical, anywhere you go, you find even in animals or human body or in the cosmic manifestation. Almost the same mechanism. So as you understand very easily that in this body, my body, your body, the stomach is the enjoyer. Or there is a central enjoyer. And the stomach is friend also of everyone. Because if we cannot digest food, you see, then all other limbs of the body they become weak. Therefore stomach is the friend. It is digesting and distribute the energy to all the limbs of the body. Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things. And that is the cause of our trouble. But Bhagavad-gītā, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said,
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
But we won't take this. We shall put forward so many false proprietor, false friends, false enjoyer, and they will fight one another. This is the situation of the world. If this education is given and people takes this knowledge, there is peace, śāntim ṛcchati. Immediately there is peace. This is knowledge. And if anyone follows this principle, he's honest. He does not claim "It is mine." He everything knows it is Kṛṣṇa's, so therefore everything should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is honesty. If this pencil belongs to me the etiquette is... Just like my students sometimes do: "Can I use this pencil?" "Yes." This is etiquette, I say, "Yes, you can." Similarly, if I know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, without His permission I'll not use. That is honesty. And that is knowledge. And one does not know, he's ignorant, he's foolish, and foolish man commits all criminality.