Śyāmasundara: There are some philosophies such as the phenomenologists, they say that essence is prior to existence, but these existentialists say that existence is prior to essence; in other words, that by existing we come to our essence. We realize ourself by going through stages of different existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our theory, that we are struggling or transmigrating from different species of life, and when we come to the perfectional stage of living condition, human form of life, so then we understand what is the aim of life. So as spirit soul I am existing, and then, at my perfectional stage, I learn what is the essence of life. Essence of life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore existence is first, and then to understand the essence.
Śyāmasundara: Ah. He says the culmination of commitment is religious life, or he calls it the inwardness of suffering, that we...
Prabhupāda: No. We don't follow that. Suffering, actually there is no suffering, because a spirit soul is different from the body. The same example: Just like when there is accident in the motorcar, the motor driver or the owner of the car is not actually suffering. But because he has identified his motorcar with himself, therefore he is suffering. Similarly, either you say God and all God's personal parts and parcels, the living entities, the spirit soul, he has no suffering. But the ordinary spirit soul, because he has identified himself with the matter, he suffers, whereas God, because He has full knowledge and is always apart from this material world, nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ, just like Bhagavad-gītā. There is..., God has no suffering. It is a question of, just like the same example: In a motorcar I am sitting and my friend is sitting. There is some accident; the motorcar is lost. So this man who possesses the motorcar, he suffers, but I do not suffer. I am in the same car, but I do not suffer. What is the difference? The difference is that I have full knowledge that I am not this car, but he, being identified with the car, being ignorant, he is suffering. So it is a question of knowledge where there is suffering and no suffering.
Śyāmasundara: Oh. So penance and austerity, that it is not really suffering? What does suffering involve?
Prabhupāda: No, no. No suffering. Those who are advanced in knowledge, there is no suffering. Actually those who are spiritually advanced, if there is some bodily pain, he knows that "I am not this body. Why should I suffer? Let me do my duty. Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is advancement.
Śyāmasundara: Well, by this inwardness of suffering, he applies... The same principle, the same idea is there, that one goes on, and he risks...
Prabhupāda: Actually, suffering is due to ignorance, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That he risks serving God on his faith of...
Prabhupāda: There is no reason.
Śyāmasundara: ...and whatever...
Prabhupāda: Because he knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." So where is the suffering?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: That is pleasure, serving God. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, just see, in the cottage. They are minister. They are ministers. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. They are living most aristocratically, and now they are taking the place of mendicants living in the cottage, no bodily comfort, no servants, nothing of the sort. Does it mean they are suffering? There is one... That is stated in the, that vande rūpa-sanātana, that they, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. They gave up as most insignificant this society, this aristocracy. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat. It is... What is the value of this? Give up. And bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. And in order to become merciful to the mass of people, they accept simply loincloth, any way covering, that's all. That is a suffering? No. They are not suffering. Then people may say that that is suffering. But for them, there is a... Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdi-laharī-kallola-magnau muhur. Then he merged into the ocean, in the thought that how gopīs, gopī-bhāva, they are transacting their business with Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛta. That is a ocean of transcendental bliss. So because they're merged into that ocean, what is this suffering? They have no sense of suffering. One man is suffering because he has identified with this body, he is suffering. But they were identified with the cause of the gopīs. They are simply writing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with gopīs, Vidagdha-mādhava, Lalitā-mādhava, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. They are simply engaged in thoughts of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs and writing, writing, writing. So what is the suffering? Other fools may think, "Oh this man was minister. He was so comfortably situated. Now they have taken this cloth and they've no home, no food, nothing of this..." They are thinking that is suffering, but they are not suffering. They are not suffering. They are enjoying.