Prabhupāda: Just like a thief. He also has got the conscience, "Why shall I steal?"
Ātreya Ṛṣi: "This or this."
Prabhupāda: "This or this." But he knows that "If I do it, I shall be punished."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when an individual spirit...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that actual freedom, though? Is that freedom?
Prabhupāda: No, I have already said that you cannot have absolute freedom.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but is the spirit soul implicated in that decision in any way, or is it just the modes of nature working, "Well, I'll take this instead of that."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the spirit soul implicated in that decision, or is it...
Prabhupāda: What is that decision?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Let's say, "I'll go to the cinema, or I'll go to the restaurant." So is the spirit soul implicated in that decision in any way, or is it simply the three modes of material nature working?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The three modes.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow what is your...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a situation. Either I'll go to the cinema or I'll go to the restaurant. So is the spirit soul...
Prabhupāda: Both of them are sinful.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So how is the spirit soul involved in it? Is the spirit soul choosing, or is the decision already made by his karma?
Prabhupāda: Karma, karma... You can make your kar... You are doing that. Karma you are creating every moment by desire. Karma is.... What is that? Thinking, feeling, willing. You think of something; then you do it. That means you create your karma. You are thinking that "I shall go to the cinema"; then you go. That is karma.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The question is choice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is...
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Choice.
Prabhupāda: That is desire. Therefore bhakti means you shall not desire anything except to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you are safe. Because you are desiring so many things for your sense gratification, you are becoming implicated.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. So the point is that if a...
Prabhupāda: Just like a good child. He has decided, "I shall do only what my father says." Then he is safe. And as soon as he misuses his indep..., little independence, he is complicated. So decide like that, that "I shall not do anything which is not ordered by Kṛṣṇa." Then it is all right. Otherwise you'll suffer. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Make it zero. Then you are safe. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply do, act, what Kṛṣṇa says; then you are safe. Why don't you do that? That is also independence. You are misusing independence. You are misusing. Then you must suffer. The government says, "Do according to the law." Then you are safe. Government will give all protection. And if you violate law, you must suffer.
Devotee: So take it that there is a man, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who is not very learned in śāstra, but he only simply does what his guru tells him.
Prabhupāda: What is learned? What is learned? A child, does he require learning. When the father says, "You do it," does it require any university education?
Prabhupāda: "He is my father." That's all.
Guru dāsa: Nara-priya(?) do not know śāstras. They know unalloyed devotion.
Prabhupāda: No, that is the nature. A child generally abides by the order of the parent. They are playing. The parent says, "Don't do it! Sit down!" Immediately sit down. That is the nature. So why don't you break your nature, that "My duty is to carry out the order of the supreme father?" Then you are safe.