Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are thoughts made of matter or spirit?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thoughts actually made by spirit, but it is covered by matter. Therefore in the material condition you can think only of matter. Just like this body is covered by so many material things, but actually, the spirit is covered. So the soul being spirit, so long it is covered by matter, it cannot act spiritually. It is obstructed. Not obstructed. Covered. It cannot be obstructed. If you like, you can get out of the covering of the matter. So matter cannot obstruct. But it is the will of the soul. Therefore it is called taṭastha, marginal.
Prajāpati: When we feel pain or discomfort, that is covering also?
Prabhupāda: That is to the material. Soul has no pain. It is the material covering. Just like this chilliness. We are affected by the body, material body, not the soul. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This pleasure and pain is due to the material covering. Otherwise soul is unaffected. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ: "This puruṣa, the soul, is unaffected by any material condition." The same example as I give, that you have a good car. You are identifying yourself. But you are not the car. You are affected if the car is smashed, because you have got absorption in the car that "This is my car." The other man is not affected. Similarly, due to our absorption, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), "It is my, it is mine," we are suffering.
Rūpānuga: The False ego.
Prabhupāda: False ego.
Rūpānuga: Very subtle.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: This process of identification with the body. So we identify with the body...
Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. He is not that, but he is thinking, "I am this." That is animalism. The animal is always thinking that "I am this body."
Girirāja: So if somebody no longer identifies with the body, what is his perception of a painful condition?
Prabhupāda: He tolerates. He knows. Just like the same example. You are not the car . If your car is smashed, although you feel sorry, but you know that "I am not a car." That is the position.
Rūpānuga: So the pain is experienced by the consciousness that is spread all over the body?
Prabhupāda: That is false. That is called illusion. You are not painful, but you are thinking that "I am painful." But that is illusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are conditioned.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why we experience from very, our childhood that I feel pain when somebody hits me.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like we all know that "I am not this body." But why you are covering the body? So long you are in material condition, you have to do that. The same example. Although you are not the motorcar, but if there is some accident, you have to take care of it, because you have to work on it. Therefore this body, although I am not this body, I have to work in this material world with this body. That is the vehicle. You cannot neglect it, neither you become identified. This is knowledge. Yuktāhāra-vihāraś ca. That is recommended, yuktāhāra, "as much as necessity." But these people, they are taking the body as everything. They have no information of the soul.
Rūpānuga: They cannot tolerate it. Like the prisoner cannot tolerate being in the prison house without knowledge. They cannot get along.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So our consciousness is affected by our conditioning.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like the yogis. They live in the Himalayas without any cloth. They take bath in ice water. They don't feel anything.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prajāpati: But is it true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer if his disciples act in sinful ways?
Prabhupāda: The same way. Bodily suffering. Infection. The spiritual master accepts the all infection. So as the infection acts on the body, so there is little suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says, "All the sinful reaction of the surrendered soul..." So spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. So he has also to accept. (break) ...the injunction is one should not accept many disciples. But for preaching work we have to do that. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to finish my thesis, so I won't be able to come every day in the morning.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do your duty. (break)
Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm so sorry that you have to suffer cause we're such rascals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I'll not suffer.
Karandhara: Then don't be rascals.
Prajāpati: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.