Śyāmasundara: He says that they are not eternal but that the interaction of forms is an eternal process, that one form interacts with another...
Prabhupāda: They cannot explain it. The real is that this form is not eternal, but there is an eternal form. Just like the water. The form of the water on the desert, that is not fact, neither it is eternal. But there is eternal water. Otherwise wherefrom I get this idea here it is water. There is water. Now the presentation of water in the desert, that may be false. The Māyāvādī philosophers they do not know.
Śyāmasundara: But if the universe is rational and everything has a purpose, then this temporary form is also spiritual because it has some kind of purpose.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and that we are utilizing, everything, for the purpose, to make the best use of bad bargain.
Śyāmasundara: Even if someone can't see it, isn't there a purpose?
Prabhupāda: Now why not? Everything can be seen. Without seeing, what is the...? Everything can be seen.
Śyāmasundara: Even if someone, there is someone outside who cannot see it and they're utilizing a car or some object, isn't that object also...
Prabhupāda: Why he cannot see? He's seeing. Why does he say that he cannot see? He's seeing car.
Śyāmasundara: He's seeing it but perhaps he doesn't have the knowledge of what it is.
Prabhupāda: That is different thing. But he's seeing.
Śyāmasundara: So supposing he has no knowledge what it is, but isn't that object still a spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Then he has to take knowledge from person who knows.
Śyāmasundara: My question is, is that object still not spiritual?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows or does not know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Fact is fact.
Śyāmasundara: It's still spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Any object.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no see. He has not eyes to see it, that it is spiritual. He has no knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: So God's plan is unfolding itself everywhere, whether we understand it or not.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's unfolding Himself. In Bhagavad-gītā He is sending His representative for unfolding.
Śyāmasundara: But even in the material world, in the way water erodes the land and trees grow and die, like that. Even though there is no knowledge of the spiritual content aren't they still spiritual? Going on?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Like the same example, just like the earth when it comes to form it is also earth, and if there is no form, that is also earth. The earth remains always. Therefore spiritual energy. The sky is sky, but when there is cloud you'll say there's no big sky, it has become shortened or something like that; you cannot see. So cloud comes, and if there is no cloud, a sky, sky is always there.