Prabhupāda: In our college there was one Mr. Kidd, professor of economics. He was always chastising us. We were student; he was our professor. "Oh, you cannot have independence. You cannot manage it. You cannot manage. You can work just like ass, but if some asses are given under you, you cannot work." He was talking like that. "So don't cry for independence. You are not yet nation." He was talking like that. So actually his experience was nice, that since the Britishers have gone away, the management of Indian government is not nice. They cannot manage. So he was experienced. He told. I sometimes remember that Professor Kidd told me like that. (laughs) So we have to create nice administrator. That is another function, you see? Every department, we shall create assistant, assistant. So that in case he is ill or he is sick, he cannot work, somebody must work for him.
Sick (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): There are two things. I am still, I'm still... that we are raised upon this material life (indistinct) that may be available just like air. Air we do not keep the air under lock and key. There is no dearth of time, no dearth of energy, no dearth of resources. Only dearth is that we have no clear perspective (indistinct) we are under control. (indistinct) in the only because of our other and therefore we have become confused. So from Buddha's time we wanted there should be no sickness, old age, and death, etc. But it is continuing. There is no such country...
Prabhupāda: But how do you respect these words of Lord Buddha, first thing is.
Guest (1): No, I have got one thing, you see, that it is through the diffusion...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Lord Buddha, we have to accept him as an authority, Lord Buddha. Now, he gives you idea that no misery. So how do you accept these words of Lord Buddha?
Guest (1): No, I do not because that was not..., has not come into...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he was giving that hint in spiritual life, not in this life.
Prabhupāda: But he is weak. With whom he'll fight?
Karandhara: Yes. It was actually very... We have a lawyer working on it to get a suspended sentence. We've got a lawyer who is trying to get him a suspended sentence because he was sick and he..., they had him taking drugs and he was weak and he had been in the hospital for four months. Why they should put him in jail? He just got a little irritable.
Mohsin Hassan: Could you recall the beginning of your first trip to USA and how you spread the message? I was told that you came here with six dollars, and then...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our government, India government would not allow to take money to go outside. So somehow or other I got the P-form sanction, and one big shipping company, they allowed me free passage. So I came here with great difficulty. Of course I was very comfortably situated on the sea, but still, because I am not accustomed, I got sea sickness. So the travel was very miserable. Still I came. Then for one year, I was going here and there, there was no fixed-up position, and then in 1...9, I came here in 1965, September, then 1966, July, I incorporated the society and started my preaching in a storefront, and... Second Avenue. And then gradually the students came and it developed, one branch after. Now we have got sixty branches, and our expenditure is very heavy. According to Indian calculation it is about 700,000's of rupees. We are paying every rent, we have got in each center not less than twenty-five devotees, up to hundred, hundred and fifty. So it is going on by Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Prabhupāda: But as soon as an electronic is a little sick, the whole thing stops.
Devotee (4): No, they're reliable machines. These are just...
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Devotee (4): Yeah, that possibility is there.
Prabhupāda: The brain goes bad, then it is very difficult to bring it into...
Pratyatoṣa: Well, they have maintenance men on the spot all the time. It's very reliable.
Prabhupāda: But I moving from one place to another.
Kulaśekhara: Well, there's no activity there Prabhupāda. I got attacked on the street. I got very sick and I was attacked on the street when I was on saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Do you like to go to Africa? It is warm country.
Kulaśekhara: Yes Prabhupāda. That would be nice.
Prabhupāda: So you can go. You can go. And you know Deity... (break) ...and if it is sufficiently left, then she doesn't require further. Otherwise add something. But she'll take after the husband. My mother was doing. Yes. The remnants of foodstuff left by the husband will be taken by the wife. That means if the husband does not eat, she'll not eat. So those things are now dream only. (laughs) Impossible. Just like small child, If he follows the father, catching the hand of the father, she is always safe, he is always safe. Now your so-called independence has spoiled the social life. You know he was married.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: I'd like to ask you just something I talked with devotees about, just medicine. I went to go, I walked to the river with some devotees today. I have a cold, so I said I shouldn't go in the water. Some felt I should because it is the Ganges, and some said I shouldn't because I have a cold. And we were talking, and I don't understand. Some... Devotees, do we get sick because of our bad actions in the past?
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Bob: But when one is...
Prabhupāda: Any kind of distress we suffer, it is due to our impious activities in the past.
Bob: ...does he still get sick?
Prabhupāda: No. Even if he gets sick, that is very temporary. Just like this fan is moving. If you disconnect with the electric power, then the fan will move for a moment. That movement is not due to the electric current. That is force. What is called physically, this...
Śyāmasundara: Momentum.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Momentum.
Prabhupāda: Momentum. But as soon as he stops, no more movement. Similarly, a devotee who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, even he's found that he's suffering from material consequences, that is temporary. Therefore a devotee does not take any material miseries as misery. He takes as Kṛṣṇa's, God's, mercy.
Bob: I, I, I ask you this very humbly, but do you feel diseases and sickness?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: Do you personally feel disease and sickness?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bob: Is this a result of your past karma?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: This is a result of your past karma?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bob: So one in this material world never escapes his karma completely?
Prabhupāda: Yes, escapes. No more karma. For a devotee, no more karma reaction.
Śyāmasundara: ...you said that sometimes you feel pain, some sickness, due to the sinful activities of your devotees. Is that... Couldn't sometimes disease be that, due to that? Caused by that?
Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.
Dai Nippon representative: He ate pork, and then he became sick and died.
Prabhupāda: But in our India... Of course, Lord Buddha was kṣatriya. The kṣatriyas were allowed to eat meat by hunting.
Dai Nippon representative: Hunting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because king—the kṣatriya means royal order-they, sometimes they had to kill somebody. If somebody is criminal, "Cut off his head." So in order to become powerful in cutting head, so they had to practice hunting. Yes. This hunting was allowed to the kṣatriyas. There are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Four divisions means intelligent class, administrative class, mercantile class, and laborer class. So these kṣatriyas, they are royal order, giving protection to the citizens. And the brāhmaṇas giving good advice to the royal order. And the mercantile class, they work under the regulation of the royal order. And the worker class, they give simply service.
Dai Nippon representative: Even you catch cold, you don't go to, you don't consult with doctor, medical doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population (break) ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Satsvarūpa: It's just dragging, dragging on. Now he's become sick. He's ill. He's in the hospital.
Prabhupāda: He must be. So many attacks. How he can tolerate. He's in the post. This is happening.
Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: This idea of democracy came at a time in French history called the Period of Enlightenment, and it was introduced by...
Prabhupāda: Hm? Democracy?
Haṁsadūta: Democracy was first introduced in an age which they call the Age of Enlightenment in French history.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I also, since I became sick, I was not walking. But that, I...
Guest (1): No, it was a game for us, you know. Actually, we asked to make arrangements for us to follow you, sit in the van and then follow you.
Prabhupāda: So you can distribute this prasāda, little bit. (break)
Guest (1): Yes. It is grace of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, after all, Kṛṣṇa's property. But it has come through George... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you are asking this brain to learn how to walk? Why you are asking this odd question?
Mother: Well, my brain works and I also, if there was a war tomorrow, I could go and be a nurse and look after the sick...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right.
Mother: ...and still be with God.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. There are four divisions. So one division can take help of the other division. That is another thing. But you are asking that, "You are simply interested in brain. Why not for the leg?" But we are interested. But not in that way. When we can see that I can pay for the medical man and I can get the help, why shall I waste my time to become a medical man.
Mother: He'd been taking LSD, and he was very sick. And somebody took him in.
Prabhupāda: So,... So when he was taking LSD, what did you do for him?
Revatīnandana: Why was he taking LSD? He had wonderful education, happy home, so many things.
Mother: Well, he was experimenting. Now this is it...
Revatīnandana: So LSD is acknowledged a dangerous thing to experiment with.
Prabhupāda: You like that? You like that?
Mother: Well, he had a false... This was not...
Prabhupāda: When he was taking LSD, did you like that?
Mother: I didn't know, did I?
Prabhupāda: Then?
Mother: Until afterwards, and we found him.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). (break) "...anyone greater than Me." That is God. There are so many Gods, false gods, nowadays. Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when someone is sick, he willingly goes to the doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): So...
Prabhupāda: That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva... (MU 1.2.12). Therefore these rascals should go to a bona fide guru.
Prabhupāda: Then if you want to die, let me kill you immediately. You will be happy.
Rūpānuga: He wrote another book called "Nausea" wherein he wrote how life made him sick to his stomach.
Prabhupāda: That means madman. Sometimes madman commits suicide. He's a madman, that's all.
Karandhara: Practically, in the last three hundred, or two hundred years, all the most famous writers, and scholars and intellectuals, they all became madmen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must be, because they do not know what is to be known. Their knowledge is imperfect.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. God's name. God's... In every respect, these materialists, they want to use God for their sense gratification. That is the prime fact. Our philosophy is that "God is not agent for your sense gratification, but you are agent for God's satisfaction." That is our philosophy, just the opposite. Even so-called religionists, they also take God as the agent of their sense gratification. They go to church to order God, "Supply our bread." Actually, He is doing. God is supplying bread. But they go for ordering, that "Give us our..." The rascal does not know, God is already supplying. Why should we go to church for ordering Him to supply bread? He is already supplying, even to the cats and dogs. They do not now what is the purpose of going to the church. That is going on. That is the disease, material disease. "I want to satisfy my senses, and anyone who will help me in my sense gratification, I shall worship him. If he does not, then I shall not." Everywhere. This Nixon became president because he promised that "I shall satisfy your senses." Now he is not doing so, so "Get out." This is the whole formula, material world." You satisfy my senses, you are my friend. And as soon as stop, then you are not my friend." That's it. (break) ...are considered the most authoritative because they give sense gratification. "You are sick. Now you are unable to gratify your senses. I give you some medicine so you become strong and go on your sense gratification." Therefore doctor is very good man.
Prabhupāda: That is a sort of punishment of sinful activities. When you fall sick, it is due to sinful activity. So you are punished.
Karandhara: It's a very high price.
Rūpānuga: Pay fine.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The more dangerous is the disease, you have to pay more. (break)
Karandhara: ...very mercenary, hospitals...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere mercenary.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is my point. If you can avoid death, disease, old age, then you are well. You cannot avoid all these things. You must become old man, you must die, you must be diseased; where is the meaning of this well? It is simply concoction. (break) Where is happiness? Where is well-being? That they do not know. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That they do not know. Just like a man lying on sick bed, and some friends come, "How are you?" "Yes, today I am well." What is this "well"? You are lying on the sick bed, hospital, and you are speaking, "Yes, I am well." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. There is no "well." So long you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease, there is no question of "well." When you can avoid these things, then you are well. (break) ...but our independence. What is that independence? No rice, no geha. What is this independence? (break) (Hindi) "godless civilization" saba boka mare hai, bās. (break) ...take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, everything is false. You cannot escape. (Hindi) The death is there. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). So at the end everything will be taken away by Kṛṣṇa in the form of death. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. (japa) Everyone, especially the karmīs, they think that they will live forever.
Bhagavān: Fifteen hundred.
Prabhupāda: No. According to our present calculated, about 180 mounds. So there should be 120 mounds excess of grain. Instead of excess, they want ten thousand rupees for maintenance. This is... This management is going on. These things were not discussed in GBC? So what kind of discussion was there? Simply talking? No practical? And the estimate of budget was presented for ten thousand rupees per month. And... And when it was scrutinizingly studied, immediately it came down to six thousand. So what kind of budget? So management should be in that way, that nobody is sitting idly. Automatically he'll fall sick. Sickness means idleness. Or excess eating, sleeping. No excess, no less. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. Yukta. Yukta means actually what you need. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So everywhere, in each center, this system should be introduced, and there must be practical application of the varṇāśrama. At the same time, this program of devotional service. Then it will go on very nicely.
Hṛdayānanda: And all the devotees are protected.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone should be engaged. And if everyone is engaged, he'll never fall sick. Yes. (break) ...the farmers, their son, they're giving up the farming business.
Haṁsadūta: Going to the city.
Prabhupāda: Going to the city. In your country also?
Ātreya-ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Or you have nothing to do with farming.
Ātreya-ṛṣi: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: Your country, there is nothing to do with farming. You have got petrol.
Yogeśvara: That how can we say that to give people..., that the only real problem is to give knowledge. There are people who are starving; there are people who are sick; there are people who are in so much distress.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot do. You cannot do. There are so many people starving in the hospital. What can you do?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says, "Probably not very much." He said, "But maybe we can do something."
Prabhupāda: Then this is simply a false pride, that "I can do something." You cannot do anything. Rather, you can do this service, that "There is God. You are servant of God. Please become servant of God." And if you make this program, "I can give food to so many," what you can do? There are millions and millions. People are starving all over the world. What can you do? It is simply false pride. You cannot do anything. Now, just like I have heard that in your country, because they have got excess milk supply there was recommendation to kill twenty thousand cows. Is it a fact?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Yes.
Yogeśvara: All of these big politicians, they seem to fall very ill afterwards.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: They seem to become very sick. Nixon is also ill.
Prabhupāda: Not only sick, they die very soon.
Yogeśvara: Radhakrishnan was paralyzed?
Prabhupāda: Yes, brain paralyzed.
Haṁsadūta: I get sick.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahāt. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. Indriyāṇi means senses. Parā, supreme. This is supreme. And then, if somebody is little advanced, indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better class of rascals... This is the third-class rascal, and they are second-class rascal. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ (BG 3.42). Then the intelligent class. They consider, "What is this nonsense? They are all suffering here." In this way, one who becomes actually intelligent, wise, then he understands, "Kṛṣṇa is everything." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So that highest position we are giving by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guru-kṛpa: You said before that the more hospitals they open that means the more people have to become sick.
Prabhupāda: That, more... Yes.
Guru-kṛpa: To get in the hospital.
Prabhupāda: They are very much proud, "We have opened fifty hospitals." That means fifty thousand people have become sick. "We have increased so many beds." That means so many people have more increased their disease. But they're proud of doing this. Our poor-feeding and their poor-feeding is different. We give prasādam—by eating he'll become Kṛṣṇaized. He'll become a devotee. And ordinary eating means he will eat and go to hell. Hare Kṛṣṇa (japa) Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau...
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Jaya Prabhupāda.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I remember those days immediately when I see the sea.
Haṁsadūta: You were getting seasick?
Prabhupāda: No, I liked it. Although I was sick, still, I liked it. Day and night, for thirty-five days.
Haṁsadūta: I came to America in the same way, but I was always sick. I didn't like it.
Prabhupāda: The sea journey is very good provided there is no sea-sickness. Otherwise very bad. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... (break) ...all of our books in different languages. At least all the European languages. America is one language.
Guru-kṛpa: South America.
Prabhupāda: South America, different languages. Spanish.
Guru-kṛpa: Spanish, Portuguese.
Prabhupāda: Hare Rāma Hare... What about that Japanese translation? Something is done or not?
Guru-kṛpa: Just a magazine.
Prabhupāda: No. His wife was translating Japanese?
Bali Mardana: It has to be checked over.
Guru-kṛpa: There is a girl in Tokyo who is very expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Who is going to swim now? (laughter) (break)
Tripurāri: Once Balavanta was very sick when he was dealing with the politicians, and I heard that you said it was because he..., by touching them and associating with them, he accepted some of their sinful reactions.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) I did not say. (laughter)
Tripurāri: No?
Prabhupāda: But it may be.
Guest: Can the profit of the manufacture of something which is manufactured purely for profit be turned to good?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gives to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He fought. He killed. Killing is not good business, but he killed on the advice of Kṛṣṇa, and he became a bhakta by killing. Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. And what did he do? He killed, that's all. This is an example. Of course, bhakta never kills. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna was not willing to kill. But when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it, so this is my first business. Never mind I shall go to hell," that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. "By killing my brother I may go to hell. It doesn't matter. But Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That is my first business." Kṛṣṇa sometimes pretended to be sick. And many physicians came, they could not cure Him, headache. So He suggested that "I think if My devotee gives their dust of foot on My head, then I'll be cured." Then every devotee was approached that "Give your dust of feet. Kṛṣṇa wants it." Even Nārada. So Nārada said, "How it is possible I shall give my dust of feet to Kṛṣṇa? No, no, no, it is not possible." But when the person, messenger, approached gopīs in Vṛndāvana and they were informed that "Kṛṣṇa is sick.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Jesus says that in Matthew. He says that "Many will come to me and say, 'Lord, Lord,' that 'We cured the sick in your name, and we cast out demons in your name,' " and Jesus said that "When they come I will say, 'Get away from me. I know you not, for you failed to do the will of my Father.' " Even though they're claiming to be Christians.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: Many times, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've heard you say, when speaking to people, that "You don't have to give up your faith. You can remain a Christian or you can remain a Mohammedan. Simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you'll become purified." So the main point...
Prabhupāda: No, we say not only Hare Kṛṣṇa. "You chant the name of God. But if you have no name of God, then here is the name of God."
Madhudviṣa: Sometimes I get sick stomach too.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, because you have got this body. And after giving up this body, completely, blissful life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You are not going to get another body of suffering, that is your advantage. And these rascals, they are going to continue one body after another simply suffering. And for the devotees, although they do not suffer, it is just like, the fan is moving, you make the switch off. It is actually not moving, it is by the last force it is moving, but the switch is off. And it will stop, suffering. But you have no such chance, you will simply go on suffering, moving, moving, moving, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You shall have to accept one body, suffer, and again give up this body. Another body suffer, because so long as you accept material body, this body or that body, you will have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will change bodies one after another, and continue to suffer threefold miseries. And devotees, actually they are not suffering, but even if you say they are suffering, so after giving up this body, they are no more accepting material body. They will remain in spiritual body.
Prabhupāda: Drugs are meant for medicinal purposes, not for drinking or taking generally. Every herb, every vegetable, is a drug meant for curing a particular disease. This is nature's gift. Just like if you cut your finger, you take little grass and take a little juice and apply it. It will act as tincturizing, immediately. They are meant for this purpose. These vegetable, drugs, are meant for when you are sick or disturbed, you can utilize. Not for intoxication. Just like opium. If you have severe type of dysentery, diarrhea, a little opium it will immediately cure. But opium is not meant for using as an intoxication. There is use of opium. Morphia, opium, they have got use at a certain time, not for using it for intoxication. That is foolish.
Prabhupāda: Then you want to minimize their suffering?
Amogha: No, we will let the hippies lie there, but for the sick people who are...
Prabhupāda: What is the difference, a hippie lying on the street and in India some patient is lying on the street? What is the difference?
Śrutakīrti: According to the person's desire, we facilitate.
Prabhupāda: No, go on, waste your time. Your philosophy is that "If they feel pleasure lying on the street, so let them lie down." That is your philosophy. Then why do you endeavor for others?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, if they feel pleasure, then we can also let them.
Prabhupāda: So it is then relative.
Director: But homosexual is a sickness.
Devotee: He said it's an illness.
Director: It's an illness. It's just like a person can't see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can't punish a person for being homosexual. That our society says.
Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.
Director: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Siddha-svarūpa: From observation and experience, I think that there's a higher rate of sickness in the temples than outside the temples, than the normal population for some reason, and I was wondering what could be done to bring this down. Like I know every time I'm living in close quarters, for instance, here in the temple I get some type of flu. And I can think of what it might be, but I think that in many of the temples, from what I've experienced, there seems to be more sickness. I don't know whether it's...
Prabhupāda: For you or for all others?
Siddha-svarūpa: Well, I know myself for sure. But I see a lot of other people always... There seems to be epidemics always going around or something. Manasvī, what do you think in the Honolulu temple?
Prabhupāda: Manasvī is not sick.
Prabhupāda: Well, then, therefore you are a rascal. Then why you are struggling to live? Why, when you are sick, why do you call doctor, physician? Why this tendency? Why you are making research in medical science, opening hospital? Die. Why you are not willing to die? Then what is the answer? He says, "There is no such thing as eternity," but why you are struggling for eternity? Then what is the answer? Hmm?
Bahulāśva: Well, when we tell them your philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he became silent. The one... We were having a debate, and the one chairman of the debate, he then he turned to Mr. Stahl. He said, "So what do you think of this answer, Mr. Philosopher?" And Mr. Stahl just sat there very quiet. He couldn't say anything.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is trying to live. That is Darwin's theory also, "struggle for existence." So why you are trying to exist if there is no such thing?
Satsvarūpa: Well, they say, "We don't mind if we're not eternal, but we want to live as long as possible."
Prabhupāda: Not only that, how many branches Birla has? It is an example, yes.
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a devotee gets sick, should he go and take medicine?
Prabhupāda: Better not to take.
Devotee (4): Just depend on Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good. What is this?
Kuruśreṣṭha: Rosehips. (Horse hips(?) Forceps(?))
Yadubara: You said the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we should take care of disease if it comes. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was also saying fire and so on.
Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No preaching work? Should they go out for preaching?
Prabhupāda: No, those who are preaching, not for them. Those who are sitting idle, or they... (laughter) (break) ...has no other regulation, simply preaching. A preacher is so exalted. He hasn't got to follow any regulation. But don't take it. (laughter) And actually if one is busy in preaching work, that is first-class. (break) ...not my manufactured word, my Guru Mahārāja, that the... That Mādhava Mahārāja, when he was a brahmacārī, his name was Hayagrīva. So he was to go somewhere. So but he was sick. Guru Mahārāja was informed that he was sick and "Today is ekādaśī. He cannot take his regular meals." So Guru Mahārāja said, "No. Let him take immediately meals and go."
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: Swami Muktananda. He is very sick in the hospital.
Brahmānanda: He has a brain hemorrhage.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. (break) ...do not come to our temple? What is the reason?
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: Well, in the Nectar of Devotion you say that they don't chant with an aim to serve the Lord. Rather, they want to become one with Him. So they know that in the temple we are serving Kṛṣṇa.
Jayatīrtha: Besides that, when they come, usually someone calls them a rascal. (laughs) So they don't like to come.
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't say. (break) This is the first time I come here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, Nixon is there, but when he was on the office, he was thinking, "Without me America will go to hell." But he has gone to hell; America is there. (laughter) Just see. Just see the position of the... You can see the Nixon. When he was in the office, oh, he was a big man. He was responsible man. Now he is kicked out. He is begging, and America is going on. Where is the need of this responsibility? For several months he was asked that "You give up your responsibility." The rascal will not give: "No, without me America will go to hell." Just see. This is responsible.
Yogeśvara: All of these big politicians, they seem to fall very ill afterwards. They seem to become very sick. Nixon is also sick.
Prabhupāda: Not only sick, they die very soon.
Yogeśvara: Radhakrishnan was paralyzed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Brain paralyzed.
Prabhupāda: About his life history?
Brahmānanda: Yes. He is very sick now. Now he sleeps twelve hours a day.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That is good. (break) He is released from all political obligations or not?
Brahmānanda: From the charges?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How you'll do? You say you have no money. How you'll do it? Whole money is going to the stomach. All ghee, all money, everything. And becoming sick and sleepy. Whole day and night sleep. I do not know when it will be finished. What is the use of starting another Gurukula? Whatever you have taken, that is not yet finished. All savvy(?). And your report is, "Everything is all right." Everything is all right except nothing is finished. So I do not know how to do. There was shops made, and why it is closed again?
Dhanañjaya: Because Mr. Sharapi(?) came.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him go to the court. We shall see.
Cyavana: He becomes more sick.
Prabhupāda: More sick. Therefore this life is meant for tapasya, not to accept-voluntarily reject. Then it is nice. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...ments today are supporting the most outrageous sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The governments today are supporting the most outrageous, sinful activities. So how is it possible to reform the general mass of people?
Prabhupāda: Do you mean to say the government is perfect?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? They must be moved. Government means, nowadays, all rascals. They are elected by rascals and they are rascals. That is the difficulty. Everywhere you go, you will meet only rascals. Manda. The definition is given, manda. Even in our camp there are so many rascals. Just see the report. Even they have come to be reformed, they are rascals. They cannot give up their rascal habits. Therefore it has been generalized, manda: "all bad." But only difference is that in our camp the bad's are being reformed; outside there is no reforming. There is hope of their being good, but outside there is no hope. That is the difference. Otherwise everyone is bad. Without any discrimination you can say. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo (SB 1.1.10). Now, how the government will be good? This is also bad. Mahāprabhu's name is Patita-pāvana; He is delivering all bad men. In the Kali-yuga there is no good men at all—all bad. Strong you will have to become to deal with all bad men. (break) The seaweeds are there even in the middle ocean.
Prabhupāda: Hope, that is also foolishness. Apart from future generation, you have got sons. So you are taking very great care. Does it mean that his life is guaranteed? So what you can do? You cannot do anything for your present generation, what to speak of future generation. You cannot do. Suppose your son is sick. As father, you have given first-class medicine, first-class physician. Does it guarantee that he will live? Then what can you do? Is it in your control that your son will live because you have given good physician, good medicine? Is it guarantee that your son will live? Then what can you do? You cannot do anything for your present generation, and you are thinking of future generation, which you do not know, who is your future generation. At the present moment you know this is your generation, you cannot do anything, and you are thinking of future generation. How foolish you are.
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. If He wanted to check us from going there, He could check us from going into the prison, from offending.
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you independence. So you are.... By mentality, you have to suffer. Suppose if a child wants to do something, play, if you check it, check it, then he will go mad. Just like mother Yasoda was showing stick to Kṛṣṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa became so much afraid, he (she) became immediately anxious: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has too much anxiety. He may fall sick." So immediately throw away. So this is father-mother's affection.
Prabhupāda: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is "It is first class." (laughter)
Harikeśa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.
Prabhupāda: "I don't want to go."
Cyavana: You don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: "Yes."
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kamān. He satis... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says, bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Now, you have to grow trees, plants and vegetables for your eating. So that you cannot have without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives all the seeds. Bijo 'ham. You cannot manufacture the seed. He gives the seed. You work little, sow it and get the result. But without cooperation with Kṛṣṇa, how can you get the seed? Then where is your food? No food. You must take... "God, give us our daily bread." Kṛṣṇa gives the seeds, and you sow it and get the fruit or grains. Then you can exist. Even if you are animal-eater, the animal must also come from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot manufacture the animal. That is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. Bijo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The animal is produced by father and mother, but the seed is given in the semina by Kṛṣṇa. And then animal is produced. So how you can non-cooperate Kṛṣṇa? You have to cooperate. Otherwise... (man yelling in background) What is that? (laughter) Huh? They are criticizing us? No.
Brahmānanda: He's imitating the birds.
Prabhupāda: Nobody is fit. The doctors also become sick as soon as there is violation. The violation is the cause of sickness, so either he may be doctor or no doctor, that does not matter. If you violate, you'll be sick. That is nature's law. Nature's law.
Devotee (1): Speaking of chance, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it was mentioned in the scriptures that, in The Nectar of Devotion, that in order to be involved in devotional service and execute devotional service in this life, we had to have some devotional service last life. So therefore, were you here last life too, to give us this devotional service?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Brahmānanda: He's asking that in The Nectar of Devotion it is stated that for one to engage in devotional service means that in his previous life he had some connection with devotional service. So he's...
Prabhupāda: So where is the chance? It is the cause and effect. If previous life you had some activities and the result is there.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the solution? What is the solution? If after thirty years it is going to be collapsed, then what is the use?
Devotee (1): But it's the moral problem that they're having, isn't it? Not the sickness, but the moral problem of either killing off one person or letting him continue to survive.
Prabhupāda: Well, they have no moral. They are killing so many persons. That is killing. That is not... They are expert in killing.
Saurabha: But they're afraid to take decision. They're very much confused.
Harikeśa: They're afraid to take a decision whether to kill them or not by pulling out the plug.
Prabhupāda: You take decision or not, he will be killed. That you cannot say. You are becoming very much moralist, whether to kill, but it will be killed. You cannot save him. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So the new one it is all dried up with glycerin. If they are finished, then prepare the same formula. (break)
Indian man (3): ...not taking bath in the morning. I was not coming to the temple because my bronchitis. And once you told me, "You take without bath. You go to the temple." I started taking bath. I was now coming to the sea because that bronchitis was troubling me. But now... (Hindi) My wife told me, "Don't go. You are a sick man. You are not taking my..." I said, "No, it will be Kṛṣṇa's mercy only." I am ninety percent happy. Once I give some... Still I think I am, by your grace, I am ninety percent cured now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Prabhupāda: Kutaḥ punar agamano abhavet.
Nanda-kumara: Harikeśa, he is feeling sick. He has a bad headache. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...you have come? As soon as he has come, he is feeling headache. (laughter) (break) ...and pain in the stomach is very good disease. Nobody can see. (laughter) If I say, "I am feeling headache," you cannot see. I can sleep very nicely. And pain in the stomach, you cannot see. These two diseases are beyond the physician's limit.
Prabhupāda: ...was in the beginning allowing, but they saw some disadvantage. Therefore they have stopped. (break) ...our Dhanañjaya?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's sick.
Prabhupāda: Every morning he is sick.
Harikeśa: He had typhoid.
Prabhupāda: Typhoid?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is called, they were playing the role of human being. (pause)
Indian man: ...would be nearing the portion where that (indistinct) is there. I told Girirāja prabhu, when you were sick, that fever is there, you were having fever, so I...
Prabhupāda: No, I had no fever.
Indian man: When you went to Vṛndāvana? Some...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian man: So I was telling my wife, she said that you read that Bhāgavatam, where that Bāṇ(āsura) is there, that Śiva means having, producing jvārā, fever, so Viṣṇujvārā is cold only, so that Viṣṇujvārā will bring down the fever. So you were just reading more Bhāgavatam only, when you are sick. Anybody who is suffering from fever means you read such and such a portion, so it should come down.
Prabhupāda: No, Viṣṇu should not be utilized for curing your fever. (laughter) That is not bhakti. That is business.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Indian man: They have taken up social work, isn't it? Everybody. Swamijī, I am now reminded. A few weeks back I was invited to Raj Bhavan. I went as an invitee of an invitee. And that Madhuben Shah(?) began to wax eloquent because he happened to be the president of the world union. And they said, "Oh, we want to integrate the entire world, and the emotion and gradation, all those things." And they invited the views of Aryans, of twenty-five persons. All spoke. I did not speak. I kept quiet. Somebody said, "Here is a person who really knows." I said, "I am sick of this talk.... (break) And why should we have another organization for the same purpose?" Then I said, "But anyhow, I don't know. If Kṛṣṇa..." Nowadays I use that...
Prabhupāda: (break) There is Theosophical Society?
Yaśodānandana: Yes, all over the world, international.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...started from here?
Indian man: It was started. Madras center and there in America.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...come from the other side. (break) ...registering this association, some friend suggested, "Why don't you make it 'God consciousness'?" And "No, 'Kṛṣṇa conscious.' If I bring God consciousness, they will bring so many gods."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...here for some time. You'll like it very much. (break) ...you all that in this center very nice foodstuff is supplied, and nobody becomes sick. Everyone complain, "I am sick because I am eating too much," or "no eating." Why? No eating or eating too much should be avoided. Simply you eat what will keep your health nice. That is eating. No eating is also not advised, and overeating is also not. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya (NOI 2). Yuktāhāra, not atyāhāra. Yukta. Where is this Śāstrī? He's sleeping?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Sick?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was in the class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he doesn't sleep at this...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...possible for us to challenge the whole world that "You are all fools." Huh? Is it possible?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Your Divine Grace is so merciful because the Western people, they are habituated to so many bad habits which weren't existed, existing in the Vedic time amongst the higher classes. Still, you are introducing all these things for them. Many times devotees, they don't take that seriously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. What is this? (break) ...our field or some other field, but food must be there. If you don't eat sufficiently, how you'll be able to work? Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. We are not after dry speculation. Practical. Eat sufficiently. Work sufficiently. Don't be lazy. But the danger is if you eat more than sufficient, then you'll sleep sufficient. Therefore yuktāhāra, as much as you require, take it. Don't take more; don't take less. This is the law of nature. Just like salt. You salt require. But if you take more, it is useless, and if you take less, it is useless. If in the vegetable the salt is more, then it is uneatable; if it is less, uneatable. Take as it is. It is not that "Because there is ocean of salt, let me three pounds' salt." That is going on. "Oh, it is available? Now let me eat." And then he becomes sick.
Prabhupāda: That, if they... One must go through this practice. Everyone must attend the ārā..., maṅgala-ārātrika. One must attend this. One must attend this. Otherwise no prasādam. If one says, "I am sick," no prasādam. "You are sick. You cannot digest. That's all." And sick, sleeping, and at the time of prasādam, voracious eating, that is not sickness. If you are sick, you cannot take food. Don't take.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...just decorate green leaves and yellow flower. By chance? Rascals say, "By chance." It is coming by chance? Just see. Show me anything within your experience which has come by chance. Anything, whatever you like, show me, come by chance, which has come by chance.
Hṛdayānanda: I can say.... "Yes, I was, became sick by chance."
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: "I became sick by chance."
Prabhupāda: No, no. Then again you are rascal. You infected some disease. Then you became sick. There is no chance.
Guru-kṛpā: The other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I went in the shower, and I turned on the shower, and the thing broke and hit me on the head. It was chance.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because you are rascal, therefore it hit you.... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. His nature is to become happy. He is happy, happy. Just like our natural position is we are healthy. Nature has made this body. But we create such situation that we become ill, sick. And at that time we see, "Oh, I am..." What is that? "I am infected. I have been contaminated." Go to the doctor, injection. But the natural life is no disease.
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But you create a situation; therefore become diseased.
Guru dāsa: Otherwise it wouldn't be called "diseased," because it would be normal to be sick. But disease means...
Prabhupāda: Normal life means no sickness.
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And as soon as there is sickness, that means punishment. So if you want to be punished, then violate the hygienic laws. You can see that there is hospital and medical treatment and medicine—for whom?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sick people.
Prabhupāda: No, for the human society. Not for the birds, beasts. But they follow nature's law. But this rascal violates nature's law and suffers.
Yadubara: What about for the devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes they are very sick, have so many...
Prabhupāda: Devotees.... To become devotee is not so cheap thing. You don't think that because you have got a tilaka you have become devotee. Why do you think like that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. And the same person who is giving me protection, later he will ask me for protection, and then I will ask somebody else...
Prabhupāda: No, no, even when the father-mother is supposed to give protection, that is also not right conclusion. Otherwise there are so many fathers and mothers who is giving protection to his children. The father-mother, when the child is sick, the father-mother gives all—one who has got means—best medicine, best medical treatment, but the child dies. Where is the protection?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. Even that is...
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I told a friend, he's been a friend over the years, I tried to bring it home to him that we are not our body, and he said, "Oh, yes, and I cannot get away from the physical idea that I am this," and I said, "Your father is very sick now, and he may die at any time," he's very fond of his father, and when the father is dead and lying there on the floor and after few days he begins to smell, I asked him, "Is that still your father?" He had no answer for that.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.
Prabhupāda: Because the time was taken, extension. Then, in 1967, in July, I thought, "Now the health is broken." I was very sick after heartstroke. So I thought "Now I shall not exist. So let me go to Vṛndāvana and die there." So I came back in July 1967. So this Brahmānanda and others, they were crying when I got on the boat. Hm? The heart was so weak...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You went back to India by boat?
Prabhupāda: No, by plane. I think...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From San Francisco.
Prabhupāda: Hm. At that time, I got some money. Five thousand was given by Jayānanda. He gave me five thousand, and Brahmānanda also gave me. So I spent some money for acquiring some... I had about six thousand. So then I purchased ticket coming back with Kīrtanānanda. In this way, came back to India.
Dr. Wolfe: Do not some physical means come into the keeping the body strong, healthy, so that devotion is possible at all? Because to produce sick people, of course, is not in the Lord's spirit either, I think.
Prabhupāda: No. Our aim is not to create sick people. That is not our aim.
Dr. Wolfe: Swimming, walking, is still important I think.
Prabhupāda: No, we do not say. Neither.
Dr. Wolfe: I miss it in the Movement. I think it should not be made a sport, but it should be made, perhaps, a physical must under control.
Prabhupāda: No, if you eat more, then you require more exercise to digest unnecessary loading, but if you eat simply, just to keep our body and soul together, you don't require exercise.
Rādhāvallabha: Yeah. They also try to bombard it with radiation, and that has its very bad effects. Their hair falls out. They get burns, sick.
Hṛdayānanda: Miserable condition.
Rādhāvallabha: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Many modern sociologists, they are predicting that in twenty or thirty years the population will increase so much on this planet that the cities will be very, very crowded, and there will be many, many new problems: no room for so many cars and not enough food, not enough housing. They predict very, very.... And then the result will be rioting. So many people will not have enough food and good places to live that they will...
Prabhupāda: So why don't you go back to home, back to Godhead? (laughs) We are trying to save them. Why you are rotting in this problem? (out of car) That reporter?
Rāmeśvara: "No obstacle."
Prabhupāda: So if you produce enough food grains, both the man and the animal will live very peacefully. Food grains. And I've seen in your country, in America, in Africa, in Australia, so much vacant land without producing food grains. So men are not engaged to produce food grains, but they are brought in Detroit to manufacture of wheels of motorcar.
Kern: For ambulances to bring the sick to the doctor.
Prabhupāda: So we have to correct this. First of all, produce food.
Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṇava philosophy?
Devotee: He's a sick doctor.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.
Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.
Satsvarūpa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...
Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. (break) ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No. Fox, they eat men? No.
Kīrtanānanda: Not usually. Only if they get sick, rabies, then they'll attack. They eat rabbits and rodents.
Prabhupāda: Deer also?
Kīrtanānanda: Deer are vegetarian, they eat grain.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Patient is always rascal fool. You cannot expect him to be intelligent. He must agree to the physician's directions. That is intelligence. He must know that he's diseased, he must follow the instruction of the physician. That much will help him. Unless one is rascal, he does not fall sick. As soon as you violate the hygienic principles, you become sick. All commit sinful activities on account of ignorance. So therefore the best advancement of civilization is not to open hospitals, but to give them a lesson that they may not fall sick and go to hospital. That is real...But they do not know. They keep the mass of people in ignorance, they fall sick and they come to hospital and number of hospitals increase, they think it is advancement. This is their idea. So even the Christians, religious persons, they also open hospital to give relief to the patient. So that is not the program. The program is why he should fall sick and come to the hospital? Precaution is better than cure. One comes to the hospital for cure, but why not take the precaution so that he may not have to come to the hospital for cure? That is Vedic civilization. They have different prescribed rules and regulations so that a person may not fall sick. The modern idea is that "Let them fall sick; we have got hospitals and treat them, and they'll be cured." But he is cured, again he falls sick. That is going on. They have no program for precaution. They have program for cure. But actually, precaution is better than cure. We are taking precaution. The other fools, rascals, they are thinking, "What these people are doing? They are (indistinct) to have no this program, that," according to them.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.
Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.
Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process.
Prabhupāda: Answer him.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But one should not remain a fool and a rascal. If the doctor has given the formula, you have to follow it. He says don't eat this but stay in bed, sleep so much. You have to do it, otherwise you will stay sick.
Prabhupāda: You'll remain a rascal if you don't follow the instruction. So what do you want? You remain a rascal or make advance? What you want? Huh?
Devotee (5): To become advanced.
Prabhupāda: Then follow. If you willfully remain a rascal, that is the difference. Otherwise, if you follow you'll become advanced. Everywhere you'll find Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. He says mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). They explain, "Nature." But they cannot explain what is nature. We can explain. Nature is a system which is being handled by Kṛṣṇa. That is real understanding. Nature, we can see that from nature this flower is coming, this flower is coming. But why not...? They say accidentally.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore guru is necessary. Everyone is perplexed. Nobody can decide himself. Even a physician, a medical man, when he is sick, he does not make his own treatment. He calls for another physician because he is sick, his brain is not in order. How he can prescribe the real medicine for himself? That is natural. So similarly, when we are perplexed, bewildered, we cannot make any solution, at that time the right person, guru, is required. It is essential. You cannot avoid it. So in our present existence we are all perplexed. Arjuna is representating the perplexed position of the materialistic person. And we are actually all perplexed. So under the circumstances, to give us real direction a guru is required. Now, here is the example that Arjuna decided Kṛṣṇa as guru. He did not go to anyone else to accept as guru. The explanation is there.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: If that was the system, people will not get sick. They will not get sick from eating old animals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is all wrong conception.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They will say..., simply think the taste there is too tough, the skin may be older.
Prabhupāda: They are eating so many rotten things.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes. And they are burning it, cooking it.
Prabhupāda: Lobster, it is simply pus. They eat. I've seen it. From whiteness it has become yellow. Puslike. They eat it, what is called that soup? Lobster soup?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Clam chowder? So many things.
Prabhupāda: But they like very much that lobster soup. In the plane, one Englishman was doing "What is this? I asked after lobster soup."
Hari-śauri: They have hospitals for animals, if your animal gets sick.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly dogs and cats, birds.
Hari-śauri: The animal that was making the noise was the man on the porch. (laughs)
Vipina: Many people have horses in the neighborhood. They have horse shows, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They spend lots of money on fancy horses, and in this way, one becomes greater than another by showing his horses. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...slam the door. The door is secure or not? (break) ...trying to find out that happiness from this body, that is mistake. That happiness is there in the spirit soul, not this body. Happiness is our right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, we want happiness. Mistaking, where is the happiness. The living being, he is to enjoy happiness. But they are trying to give happiness to the body, which is dead. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). The body is dead from the very beginning, but they are trying to draw happiness from the dead matter.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, the question is that do people who have such types of low-grade desires take birth in the Kali-yuga. So the question is that, naturally, yes, everyone is taking birth according to their karma. But we can change our destiny by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like if a sick man is offered medicine, so if he takes medicine, then he can become cured from his disease. Similarly, Kali-yuga means very high temperature, and the medicine is there in the form of the holy name, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). So we have to take advantage. Otherwise everyone in Kali-yuga is condemned.
Prabhupāda: Have we not published that "You have created 747. All right, take credit. But you cannot make a mosquito with pilot. Can you?" "No." "So why..., how can you defy the supreme creator?" We are taking it, there is supreme creator.
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, no matter what material body you have, by material nature given you, one of the most predominating features of material life is pain. I want to address myself to this question, because in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we frequently face this problem. We have the pain of, for example, if you do tapasya, that's a pain to deprive your body of sense gratification. If you don't have sleep, you have to force yourself. If you have sickness, mental disturbances, so many things, then there's the other kind of pain.
Prabhupāda: That is being explained, that we don't want to stop sleeping, but minimize it. That is being already explained. We don't say complete negation. No. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. Simply sleep as little as possible. Not that to take, just like in the Western countries, they take sleeping as enjoyment. Is it not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They call it beauty rest. In Hawaii we went by a Beautyrest Mattress store. They call it beauty rest.
Prabhupāda: Not for beauty rest. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the..., cut off their wings. (break)
Devotee (1): ...it's true that people are getting disease and sicknesses as the result of their past activities, pious or sinful. Why is it that it appears that when there is a flu many people are inflicted with that flu? Practically everyone, indiscriminately.
Prabhupāda: All of them? Hm. "Birds of the same feather, flock together, see."
Devotee (1): (laughs) What about when it happens amongst the community of devotees or some, hepatitis, or malaria, or something of that nature?
Prabhupāda: Hm? It is also past sins.
Devotee: Purification?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): Well the materialists would say, "You're just accepting it that way. The reality is that you're becoming sick just like anyone else."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Devotee (1): The scientist or materialist will say, "You're just becoming sick like anyone else, but you're saying it's just, that you're becoming purified."
Prabhupāda: Hm. What you have to do?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact though, when people are suffering they're neutralizing their sinful reactions.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the wrong there? (break)
Devotee (1): ...becoming purified from this suffering then why isn't it when we're sick, why is it that we forget Kṛṣṇa, we become disgusted, and after we are sick we don't feel any more advanced than before? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...purified, you will not be sick.
Prabhupāda: Śudhyeta satya (?) Sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer for the sinful activities of his disciples. (break) ...this suffering is short cut. For the karmīs it would have been a huge suffering but devotee is (indistinct).
Devotee (2): So then if he is sincere, then he should not be so sick in due time, his health should be good if he's practicing. If a devotee is practicing principles, then he should become healthy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, you cannot avoid sickness.
Devotee (2): No, but I mean, overall.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Devotees are generally healthier than karmīs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: Once there was this brahmacārī he used to complain to you about how sick he was all the time, and you said, "Are you not brahmacārī? Are you not following the brahmacārī principles?" Did you imply that if he were doing it sincerely he would not be so sick all the time?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Devotee is sick, and he also knows that this is the mercy of the Lord so he doesn't complain in its real sense but the material body is bound to suffer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...you are convinced that you are not this body then there is no suffering.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, that's the clue.
Prabhupāda: As you identify with the body, then you suffer. (break) ...body is damaged, you are not damaged, but because you have got attachment for the motor car, you suffer. (break) ...song by Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura, yāhā smṛti nāhi yār, saṁsāra-bandhana kahata. One who has forgotten that he is this body, he has no suffering.
Prabhupāda: Hm, so (this) instructs us that even Sanātana Gosvāmī had to suffer. What you are nonsense. You should not be sorry for suffering. That is the instruction. Why you are trying to avoid suffering? That is the instruction.
Devotee (1): Sanātana Gosvāmī, he accepted this sickness as a result of his own sinful past activities, he was so humble.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee: So we should follow that example, and accept like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the instruction. Tat te 'nukampām (SB 10.14.8). "It is Your mercy, my Lord, that I would have suffered a hundred times more than this, You are giving me little suffering." That is devotee's view. That "I am so sinful, I would have suffered hundred times more than what I am suffering. But You are so kind that You are giving me little suffering and adjusting that (indistinct)." (break) ...thinks like that, for him, back to home back to Godhead is guaranteed. That is the bhagavata-dharma. Muktipadeśa dayābhāk. One who lives like that, doesn't care for suffering, goes on with his duty. That person is sure to go back to home, back to Godhead. Just like a son is sure to inherit the father's property. Dayābhāk, this word is used. Muktipadeśa dayābhāk. Literally, heritage. Ha? What is called?
Devotee: Inheritance.
Tripurāri: Man cannot understand, but a little child can understand very easily. Just like one of our book distributors, Praghoṣa, when he was a young child they had a pet duck, the family, and one day the father killed the duck and put him on the table. They roasted the duck and put him on the table, but none of the children would eat. They became sick and they left. They would not eat. The father could not understand.
Hari-śauri: My father did that with a pet rabbit that I had as well. Came home from school one day and it was gone.
Prabhupāda: They are eating their own child...
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, we come from the lowest of the low. (in car)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the possibility of opening more than one temple in this city? Just like if there's a good building on the East Side, if we can manage, what about the possibility of that?
Prabhupāda: If you can manage, very good. In a city like New York you can have ten, twelve centers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I mean the Christians have so many churches in every part of the city.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Similarly, we can have temples.
Rāmeśvara: Some ambulance. Somebody is sick. Right now in New York City there is a big strike. The people who work in the hospitals, they refuse to work. They want more salary.
Prabhupāda: What can be done? Price raising, they want all comforts.
Rāmeśvara: So if someone is sick they will not take him to the hospital because there is no one to take care of him there.
Prabhupāda: Physical life, so you must keep yourself fit to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not our desire that you become sick and you cannot chant. But our purpose is to chant and we require the physical necessities just to keep ourselves fit, not more than that. Eating is necessary. Without eating, I will die. So we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, not in the restaurant or hotel anything, no. We take nice vegetables, nice food grains, rice, wheat, sugar, milk, all vitaminous, full of vitamins. So there is no deficiency of food. Even from food value it is very nice. We do not unnecessarily kill animals.
Prabhupāda: They are instructed in that way, plain living, high thinking.
Interviewer: Do you have arrangements with hospitals in case somebody gets sick, and do you watch diet carefully and...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not? Why not? Take care of the body. But we keep our habits in such a way that we don't fall sick very often.
Interviewer: You said before that with respect to achieving Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that the end was most important, that becoming God conscious...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Keep our standard. Then everyone will give assistance.
Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We got many times, many visitors here. One time that church come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said "My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?" And "You pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here." And...
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So give Bhagavān prabhu nice prasādam. Our, the devotees only eat prasādam.
Bhagavān: My prasāda was sitting here. I'm sorry to hear that you are so sick. You are sick.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Should have, cough, to stop.(?) The coughing is continuing and practically no appetite, and palpitation of heart. Going up the step is.... So how under this condition I can travel? It is not...
Bhagavān: Very difficult
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you came back from India?
Pṛthu-putra: Three months ago.
Prabhupāda: No, in the village there must be.
Bhagavān: The trouble is if you get sick along the way.
Jayatīrtha: On the way back from the airport we had to stop twice.
Bhagavān: Anyway, that trip to India is also long, eight hours. It's also long.
Hari-śauri: Thing is Prabhupāda is thinking that if he has to go to India anyway, so he may as well go straight there.
Bhagavān: The thing is you may be bothered in India. There are so many people who come, even though you say no. Even though you say no, there's always people.
Prabhupāda: No, the present problem is that I cannot go out.
Bhagavān: I mean, more or less whenever you get sick everyone thinks that India is not really the best place, because you're always obliged to so many people. Whether you are feeling like it or not, they always come in the room.
Jayatīrtha: And they are generally.... I know this, that these.... I like Indian people, but these Indian people are not very conscious of your position. They think that you're just another guru. Many of them do. Of course, some of them appreciate you.
Prabhupāda: Indian mentality is that "If we see one saintly person and offer obeisances, we get some blessing for our material..."
Hari-śauri: They're very selfish.
Prabhupāda: Cauliflower. Take little.
George Harrison: I can't finish. (laughter) I'm trying to finish one so I can start on the next. I was sick also lately. I had something, I went yellow. I had jaundice. Don't know why, just had food poisoning or something, and it affected my liver.
Prabhupāda: Who cooks for you?
George Harrison: Sometimes me, sometimes, ah.... I don't know, I think we'd had some Chinese food.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you should not take.
Prabhupāda: At night I don't sleep. Not that because I am nowadays sick. But generally I don't sleep. At most two hours. At most.
Hari-śauri: I think it's a long time since you've taken any rest at night.
Prabhupāda: I take little rest during daytime. So on the whole, three to four hours. But actually I do not like to sleep.
Prabhupāda: That is automatically done.
Mike Robinson: And how would you go about doing that? Would you help the sick people?
Prabhupāda: Just like if you have got a car to drive on. So naturally you take care of the car also. But not that you identify yourself, "I am this car." That is nonsense. They are doing that. They are taking too much care of the car, thinking that the car is one. He forgets that he is different from the car, he has got different business. He cannot eat the petrol and be satisfied. He has got different eating. But these rascals, they are thinking that "Petrol is also my eating." And they are drinking petrol and dying, that's all. Petrol is meant for the car, and for you there are so many fruits, flowers, milk. But if a man thinks that "I am the car, I must drink this petrol," then he is doomed.
Jayatīrtha: He had Kumar Shankar, the brother of Ravi Shankar, cooking for him. So this man is a demon; therefore he is becoming sick.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are all drunkards, all third-class men, fourth-class men, low-class men. In India, this naṭas, they are third class, fourth class. Naṭas means the artist class, singer, dancers. They are meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. It was never taken by the.... They are called, and they will expertly sing, dance, in some festival. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they were not doing. Still in India there is a class, very expert in dancing, singing, low class. Their hereditary business is like that.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I have no objection. But if you have got fever, why shall you? There are so many others. They can...
Harikeśa: I cannot tolerate being sick any more.
Prabhupāda: The body means sickness. The body itself is sickness.
Harikeśa: In illusion I think I come back here, I get healthy. In illusion I think if I leave India and come here I will get healthy. But I come here I also get sick. I go there I also get sick. (laughs) You seem to be much better now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, little better. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...thinking of how to utilize the whole land. The situation is very good, good prospect. I want that self-independent here, as far as possible. But you have got enough materials. With woods you can make cottages. Then land becomes clear, then utilize it.
Hari-śauri: The problem is that the calves drink so much milk that they become very sick, so they have to separate.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they should not be allowed always. Once in a day, that's all.
Hari-śauri: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Not too much allowed, but once. At least while milking they should be allowed to drink little milk, and that will encourage the mother to deliver more milk.
Hari-śauri: Oh. At the same time they're milking the cow, the calf can come.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They can bring it milk. And while milking, the calf may be standing before the mother.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this child has to be forced to do something. For his interest.
Bhagavān: Prabhupāda once gave the analogy sometimes when the horse is sick, the doctor takes the pill in the hand, he puts it down the throat.
Prabhupāda: No, we are prepared. Just like horse is not prepared to take the medicine. But four men force him to take the medicine. Nobody was crying for this edition of Bhāgavata, but we are forcing, "You must read. You must take." We are printing and forcing everyone. French edition, Bhāgavata's edition, they were not dying for this book, but this is our force.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No, but not everyone is prisoner.
Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal. Now make your treatment that you may not become criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor inquires, "How it began?" How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you treat me. That's all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it has begun. Now I've come to you, make treatment. That's all. Why should we waste our time to find out the history how it began? That beginning can be possible at any moment. As soon as we misuse our little independence, immediately the beginning is there. A criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. That is a fact. So when that violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the prison house. That's all. That is important thing.
Prabhupāda: One man, a case pleader.
Hari-śauri: That very thin man? Oh, I know. Yes. He was very sick actually when we were there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he was sick. He was half dead.
Hari-śauri: What about those people when we went back to where you used to live? When we came back from Māyāpur and we went out that night to, what they called? Your old friend's house?
Prabhupāda: Oh, Mulliks.
Hari-śauri: Mulliks.
Prabhupāda: They are just like my younger brothers. Their elder brothers were contemporaries. They are all died.
Prabhupāda: Medicine. Just like a type of vairāgya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal, I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brāhmaṇa. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way."(?) So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.
Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara Mahārāja is also within the group?
Jayapatākā: Of course, all those details we don't know. By the way, Tīrtha Mahārāja very sick.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gargamuni: Oxygen.
Jayapatākā: He can't breath. He is on a bed with oxygen. Life and death any moment. Injection, oxygen, barely staying alive. One day better, one day worse. Now they say better; then again they say worse. (Break) That is what we simply need, are people... I saw the program so nicely if people would simply come and work sincerely, they'll make spiritual advancement. They'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very quickly they'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So now we're seeing that... We're demanding that sincere people come.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it may not be the association of lazy people. Free hotel. No.
Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda, he's strict on that.
Gargamuni: He's very strict. Without working, no one can eat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only work. Attending the program. That is essential.
Gargamuni: ...because of being sick.
Prabhupāda: No.
Gargamuni: We need a place-health.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wrote, he wrote that to me last year, to get a Hill Station...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Mahabaleswar(?) is well known. Yes.
Pradyumna: Yes, nitya-pūjā, nitya-sevā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you cannot... One day, if you are sick, your wife will do that. But that half an hour pūjā must continue. That you must decide.
Pradyumna: Yes. Yes. I saw those brāhmaṇas in Udupi, they will never fail to do it under any condition. They have little box with śālagrāma, little śaṅkha, little thing, little tulasī leaf they get. They will do that every day daily. They cannot...
Prabhupāda: So both of you are initiated. In case you are little sick, your wife will do. In that platform you have to do it. Sevā shall not be stopped. Gradually as your son grows, he will also do it. So you can purchase one little siṁhāsana. That is available in any utensil shop. All right.
Prabhupāda: After all, father and son, affection, where it will go?
Caraṇāravindam: Now he likes. He says, "This is better what you are doing than all the other things you were doing." I've not seen him now for three and a half years since I left England. They are a little sick now.
Prabhupāda: What is the age of your father?
Caraṇāravindam: Sixty-five I think.
Prabhupāda: Grandfather died.
Prabhupāda: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.
Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases and they get cured.
Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence.
Prabhupāda: Aligarh is maternal uncle's house. So many relatives. So Aligarh, if the Deities are manufactured there, so there is no (indistinct) Money I shall bring. (indistinct) We shall bring any amount of money provided I am sure that you will make some profit. There is no scarcity.
Indian man: Prabhupāda, I was sick last night very much.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Indian man: So I could not come to you.
Prabhupāda: Last night you did not come?
Indian man: I came to see only to have your darśana but I was in fever so much.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So capital you'll get, rest assured. Anyone will give. He will give, or I will give, the bank will give. That is (indistinct). But you must utilize it properly.
Haṁsadūta: In the Western temples. They get so many nice foodstuffs which are not available here and when they become sick then they...
Prabhupāda: What rich food?
Haṁsadūta: Oh, like sour cream and butter and so many things. All kinds of fruits and vegetables.
Akṣayānanda: In the West the devotees must eat about four times as much as the ones in India who are not sick. The ones in India...
Prabhupāda: I see that here they eat more.
Haṁsadūta: I had one devotee, his name was Rad... (break) ...you know and you know. He does nothing at all. He's always sick. But at prasādam he eats more than any other man. I told him, "Prabhu, you're a doctor. You should know that if you eat so much food you can't digest, you're going to be sick." He says, "No, I'm so weak I require food. I have to, I can't get any strength." So I asked him, "At least, sit down in the temple and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." He said "I can't..."
Prabhupāda: I have seen. Some of them eat so much I am surprised.
Akṣayānanda: But the ones who eat that much, they are the ones who are always sick. They're the ones.
Prabhupāda: Overeating means sick.
Prabhupāda: Ordinarily they cannot charge anything, mind control brainwashing, subtle thing. Just like I, "I am sick." "How you are feeling?" "I am feeling some pain." (indistinct) Who is going to see? (laughter) Who can say? It is like that.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: If you say that, I am feeling some pain in this brain or in there, who is going to see?
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, who can prove it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to believe me, that's all.
Prabhupāda: At least I save doctors bill, (chuckles) I am always sick, but I never go to the doctor. Give me little nim, give me little this (sounds of hand striking table), that's all. Then what less expenditure we can make? As far as possible we do not go even to the doctor.
Pradyumna: He started out in the military, he was in the Navy. Then afterwards... His father had a peanut farm, and then his father became sick, so then he gave up his Navy thing. He came back to take care of the family. Then he began that peanut business. Now he doesn't have to do it any more because now he has made millions. He is wealthy man, very wealthy. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...capture American government. Then all world will follow. As they are known as Communists, we should be known as Hare Kṛṣṇas. We are already known as such, Hare Kṛṣṇas. Keep that name. People at least chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jagadīśa: Hare Kṛṣṇa Party.
Prabhupāda: It is already well advertised all over the world. So keep this name, Hare Kṛṣṇas. "Vote for Hare Kṛṣṇas." Anywhere you live, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right, you can go.
Mahākṣa: There was one Indian boy but he was very sick. We took him with us. He was very sick so I sent him back here to Vṛndāvana. I took him because he had given one class in Hindi in the temple and Mahārāja said that you had liked that. He was too sick. Physically and mentally sick.
Akṣayānanda: He's okay now. (break)
Prabhupāda: No cloud. In the street it is very disturbing. (break) ...party, they are also touring? No.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Killing business.
Dr. Patel: They have killed them at random. There is a disease called sleeping sickness. This sleeping sickness is common in the wild game and wild animals and antelopes in Africa. That we found out. And from there a type of fly called tsetse fly, he bites them. Just like the flies bite those animals, then when you go in the jungle they bite you. When they bite you they transfer the germ from animal to you, and you get the sleeping sickness. Now the latest sleeping sickness medicine is dependable, I mean nobody can die. But to arrest this disease in Central Africa, they'll kill all the game. Still they have not been able to arrest this sleeping sickness.
Prabhupāda: This is only theory; therefore I don't believe that. Simply theory.
Prabhupāda: I have heard that. That's good idea.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good idea? So Hṛdayānanda Swami and Kīrtanānanda Swami are going to Africa. And on the 9th they told me to send a telegram signed by you saying you are sick and you want Brahmānanda to come immediately. So then Kīrtanānanda Swami will personally bring Brahmānanda Swami to India. But they want him to become your permanent secretary again.
Prabhupāda: I have no objection.
Prabhupāda: I think some of our men, they make. Mr. Mennon?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, his wife is sick. So I don't know if he would make it right away. You want to eat it right away, tonight, isn't it? There's a nice Madras cafe near Santa Cruz station on Willard Furrough.(?) I can go and get you from there.
Prabhupāda: If you can get, bring.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Should I bring that coconut chutney also?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is essential.
Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick. He has engaged good physician, good doctor. Does it mean that he will guarantee life? Then what is the principle? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "It is not a fact that when the children are under the protection of father and mother, he's secure." Tvad-upekṣitānām: "If You neglect, that 'This child must cry; this child must die,' then even by the greatest care of the father and mother, he will die." So what is the use, saying that your duty...? Duty? That is māyā.
Guest (1): Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Prasādam? (break) Jaya. How are your sons?
Guest (2) (Indian man): One was sick for six months.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Guest (2): He was getting a temperature. He was weak.
Prabhupāda: What is the age?
Guest (2): He is twelve years.
Prabhupāda: Only? That's all. What does he say?
Guest (2): What do you say? He has... He is now in my car. I brought him from Bombay.
Prabhupāda: So you are living there or what?
Guest (2): They were staying here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is our mission. We want to save.
Rāmeśvara: Here. "The set edition of the Bhāgavata series we hope will serve as a boon to the English-knowing world for its abiding values and ennobling thoughts of spiritual perspective to give the correct lead to mankind in the midst of sickening contemporary problems."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Who has written that?
Gargamuni: That's Dr. Krishna Gopal Gosvāmī.
Rāmeśvara: Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Calcutta University.
Prabhupāda: He has got good experience because university students they have become so rascal. In the university they don't care for professors, teachers. Don't care.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Make me sick."
Prabhupāda: "Make me sick." What does he mean by this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He says... See, his theory of evolution cannot explain how these eyes are evolved, our eyes. So he felt very uncomfortable just seeing in the beginning these eyes, our eyes. But he says that stage he has overcome to some extent. But still, one particular phenomenon is bothering him very much. That is the eye in the peacock's tail. It is the delicate, nice design with is colorful structure.
Prabhupāda: How it evolved.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, how it evolved. He cannot explain by his theory. So he said whenever he gazed at it, that makes him sick.
Pradyumna: It's the opposite of the devotee.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Rascal. Artificially how long you'll stand?
Hari-śauri: So then why do you go to the hospital when you're sick? When you're sick, then why do you take medicine and consult doctor? Why not be callous to that, too?
Prabhupāda: Callous means we... Callous means we can take treatment, but we cannot protest against the doctor, that "Why you are not giving me food?" We take treatment. That is saner. If the doctors ask me that "Don't eat," I take the treatment. I don't protest that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" You are doing that, rascal, that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" But one who knows things, he doesn't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava way. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). "Oh, my Lord, You are keeping me in this tribulation. It is Your great mercy." When Kṛṣṇa keeps me in starvation I take it as mercy. I don't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: And as soon as we go to Srinagar I shall call. From Delhi to Srinagar...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not far. This evening Girirāja and myself saw Jaya Prakash Narayan in his hospital. I gave him your Hindi Bhāgavatam and Kṛṣṇa Conscious Movement and your Gītā Girirāja gave. He liked it very much. He inquired how much Bhāgavatam you have translated. He inquired where our temple is. We said Juhu. He said he would come here. Of course, he is very, very sick. And I asked him for an appointment that we could come and show him our movie. And he has agreed to even see our movie. So in one or two days we will show him the movie in the morning. And in the evening there were hundreds of people, so we only saw him for three or four minutes. He has agreed to see us again. And he wants to meet you, he said. So when he is okay he will come to see you.
Prabhupāda: Girirāja said that the Prime Minister also.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is very sick, so he said, "Now this is with me for the rest of my life unless some spiritual sādhu does some magic." So I could see that he is, because of this illness, he has probably become more spiritual now, which is also Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
Prabhupāda:
- catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ
- janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna
- ārto jijñāsur arthārthī
- jñānī ca bharatarṣabha
- (BG 7.16)
When one is distressed, ārtaḥ, if he is pious then he comes to Kṛṣṇa. If he is pious. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are not pious, they will never come.
Prabhupāda: ...always studying, for the last ten years. It is my conclusion that originally everything Indian, that is very, very high grade—for human society, for personal. That is actual human civilization. Everything, hygienic principles, Vedic knowledge, moral knowledge, everything perfect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm going to tell them to... It's good to take rest now.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Otherwise it will increase. In your sickness, if you go on working, it will increase. Better take rest.
Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya.
Mr. Dwivedi: Rakṣya means go-rakṣya. It doesn't mean that the sick should not be protected, the weak should not be protected. Go-rakṣya means go-rakṣya.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Dwivedi: Honest, in India, the ninety-nine, more or less...
Prabhupāda: They're all violators.
(Hindi)
Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi) This I've seen that in our day it has been found first-class antiseptic. (Hindi) Particularly when we have got typhus and that sort of sicknesses in the home, it is the ground gobar that the house is cleaned and...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is very dangerous civilization. If you want to save them from this dangerous civilization, you must push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise there is no other way. (Hindi) Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dhīra. (Hindi) Yato mata tato patha. (Hindi) Secular state. (Hindi) (break) (Hindi) Prāyaścitta-vimarṣaṇam. (Hindi) Do you think they'll do?
Mr. Dwivedi: No, I don't.
Mr. Myer: They want some quick profits. That's why they go to him. But if anybody is interested in spiritual advancement, he cannot help. Somebody wants to get a son, somebody's son is sick, he wants to get cured, such things...
Prabhupāda: Material.
Mr. Myer: All material things. He is not not able to guide people. He does some different things, but basically he's not able to take people for any spiritual advancement.
Prabhupāda: Neither he has any philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Brainwash.
Upendra: Unhealthy. And these Arabs, they were here visiting the temple. They saw a brahmacārī, and they explained brahmacārī means celibate. "Oh, he is sick." "Unhealthy," they said.
Prabhupāda: General idea is "How a young man can live without a young woman?" Not now. This is the material idea. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Oh, you are after woman? Oh. You are more than committing suicide."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Diametrically opposed.
Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'pi. "You are after woman? It is more dangerous than drinking poison." Who will accept? And Western country—"Oh, without young woman, what is life?" Madhudviṣa became victimized by woman. So he became so ashamed that he left, that "My career is finished now." He's conscious.
Prabhupāda: So I wanted to return again.
Śrutakīrti: If not for the traveling, it would certainly be the best place to be for your health. I remember last time when you were sick, you recovered very well in Hawaii.
Prabhupāda: Let us see. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa wants me, wants to go back to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was encouraging Prabhupāda to... I said that if he goes to the Western temples, that the welcome from his disciples would be so much that he would live for hundreds of years.
Prabhupāda: What did you answer?
Bhagatji: I heard the answer forty years back, Prabhupāda, from one professor. He brought the map of the world, and he showed the India position. Like this. That suppose one is sick. Someone has some cut. Then he's a very good man, and he sends the information to the hospital. He said "It is a small cut. Let me send my compounder(?)." The compounder(?) goes and makes a powder(?). And sometimes he has got... Then he says "Let go." Then a big, more serious disease he sends. And suppose he gets heart attack, so then himself goes, because it is a very serious disease. So he got the world map, and he showed that India is the heart of the world. So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself. And U.P. is the heart of India. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Kṛṣṇa comes to Bengal. (laughter)
Bhagatji: But in a devotee form.
Prabhupāda: Just like government has got a house. So when the governor comes, he comes in that house. Similarly India is the bhūmi, and whenever incarnation of God or God Himself comes... (break) ...discussion.
Prabhupāda: In November, December, January, February.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you once said to us that if one sits for some time in the winter sun, he'll never get sick.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...moment I am sick. When I am well enough, I shall do something. Hm? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's a very proper answer. So in order for you to be able to do something, they should pray to Jagannātha. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Girirāja is here.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Girirāja?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How is your health?
Girirāja: Oh, I'm better, improved.
Prabhupāda: What is the news of Nepal?
Girirāja: Oh, well, they have a very nice program there.
Prabhupāda: What he'll do?
Bhavānanda: Well, that's up to him, to decide what to do. We don't know what he will do, but he has medicines which can give you strength. He wanted to wait some time before administering. But now what would be the loss if he administered them to you now? If they're going to work five days from now, they'll work now. Let us try. There's no loss. And if you get strength, then all gain. The kavirāja said that the one great quality that you have in this sickness is your incredible willpower. If you lose your willpower, desire to remain here, then nothing will work. But he said that if you continue with this strong desire to remain, then it will be easy.
Prabhupāda: That strong desire has now disappeared.
| Page Title: | Sick (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 26 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=136, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 136 |