Psychologist: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: She wants to know what disciplines we have, what practices we have. Also she had a misunderstanding. She said "for the beginners," so I was explaining it was the same for the beginners.
Prabhupāda: The main principle is, to understand spiritual subject matter, one must be sinless. You find that verse,
- yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
(break) ...ess, more we can understand spiritual matters. Therefore among our students, the four principles... (break) Explain. Yes, are prohibited.
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: He says if to be sinless is not something more profound than simply restricting the body from some things, if there's not a more profound aspect of sinlessness.
Prabhupāda: The body is consider... Just like if you have got high fever, you cannot act your brain.
Hṛdayānanda: You cannot?
Prabhupāda: Act your brain. Similarly, this is also like fever, sinful fever, so you cannot act your brain for understanding higher spiritual matters.
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: He's saying, "What is sin, then?"
Prabhupāda: That sin you have explained. These are the four principles of sinful life. This can be avoided. Just like these European, American boys. They were also addicted to these sinful activities, but now they have given up, and they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. Material life means sinful life. Therefore we have to act materially under regulation. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he has to live under the direction of the physician. Otherwise his sufferings will continue. (break)
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: I'm going to translate piece by piece so I can tell you exactly what he's saying. He's saying that he understands perfectly well that a human being should look for a way for self-control and to control the physical force within him, but there's also another dimension in the human being which is a social dimension which also has to be taken care of.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the social dimension is described, cātur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Find out this verse. You read.
Hṛdayānanda:
- cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
- guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
- tasya kartāram api māṁ
- viddhy akartāram avyayam
- (BG 4.13)
(Spanish)
Prabhupāda: Social platform, there must be four classes of men, divisions. Just like this body is divided into four departments—the brain, the arm, the belly and the leg—so the society should be divided into four divisions: the brain division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. Leg division means ordinary worker. And all of them should cooperate for keeping the body fit. If this system is followed, then the whole human society will be working very nicely. At the present moment there is no brain; therefore everything is chaotic. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is creating some brain. If they follow, the whole society will be happy. A man may be very stout and strong, but if he has no good brain, it is useless. Similarly, at the present moment there is education, there is money and everything, but because there is no brain, the whole thing is in chaotic condition. The first defect is, in education, that the present leader, he does not know what is the aim of life. Neither the people know that there is reincarnation or transmigration of the soul after death. They do not know. So basically they are brainless. So they cannot give guidance, and therefore the whole society is in chaotic condition.