Prabhupāda: Advaita happened to be the head of the brāhmaṇa community. So his support... And he was a well-to-do man, he was rich man, influential man. His support made Caitanya's movement successful in Nabadwip. He was a very influential man. And similarly, Śrīnivāsa, he was also, he belonged to the brāhmaṇa community. And Advaita gave shelter to Haridāsa. Haridāsa was a Muhammadan. So he was punished by the Muhammadan magistrate and he took shelter at the house of Advaita. He was maintaining him. You can make them appear in the scene. They were talking between Haridāsa and Śrīnivāsa and Advaita and all of them chanting and dancing, "Now our mission is fulfilled."
Punishment (Conv. 1967 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"punish"
|"punishable"
|"punished"
|"punisher"
|"punishes"
|"punishing"
|"punishment"
|"punishments"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: And visitors coming and presenting. That is a very nice scene. Yes. The sixth scene is Lord Caitanya, a naughty boy. He would go to the Ganges side and it is the system of orthodox brāhmaṇas that they meditate in the Ganges, half. That is the system. Now He will go and swim over the water and throw water in their mouth in this way. Naughty boy. And they will be very much disgusted. "You naughty boy! You come here!" "Stop your meditation. What is this meditation? Chant! Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa!" He'll say like that. So they will come and complain to His father. "Your child has become too much naughty and just see that..., teased us like this." The father will say, "Oh, the boy is going to be very naughty. I'll punish Him. Let Him come." So father, angry father was waiting. As soon as the boy will come he would punish. But when the boy returns the father sees that He's just coming from school. There is no sign that He has gone to Ganges and taken bath. How is that these gentlemen complained? He will be puzzled. In that way, we have to show.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: Karma means fruitive work. Just like you are laboring for some wages. You get your wages. Similarly, this material world our work is rewarded. Good work is rewarded with good benefit and bad work is punished. This is the law of karma.
Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: He conquered all over the world almost. He went to India also. So he met one robber. So he arrested, Alexander. He was king. The robber said, "Why you have arrested me?" "Because you are robber." "Oh, you are also great robber." When Alexander was charging him that, "You have done this," oh, he charges, "You have done this. I have entered a private house; you have entered a private state. So you are a big robber." Then he released him, "Yes, what is the difference between robber and me?" And Alexander, from that day, he stopped his conquering propaganda. "Alexander and the Robber." The robber proved that "You are a big robber only. But because you are big robber, therefore you are called 'Alexander the Great.' But my business is the same as yours-encroaching upon others' property. Why do you think that I am culprit and you are innocent? You are also culprit. If I had power, I could have punished you. And you have now power, you are trying to punish me." So Alexander the Great was convinced by robber.
Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:
Prabhupāda: So seeing and hearing, still he is committing theft. Why? By experience, practical experience, he is seeing that "Here is a man, committed theft. He is punished. He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by legal obligation one cannot be purified. You may enact thousands of rules and regulation and laws. You cannot purify the heart of the people. Here is the process to purify the heart of the people. Therefore they should be taken advantage of. Simply by saying that "If you do this, then you'll be punished," nobody cares for that.
Talk During Prasada After Kirtana -- November 8, 1968, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is Kṛṣṇa's grace. I was telling the same thing to Dayānanda, that he should present this case to the higher officer. That's all. We are preaching God consciousness. We should be given... That was the Vedic law. Saintly persons, they should be given all protection. If somebody insulted a saintly person, there was a special punishment for that. That's all right. So you take that house, that is Hollywood quarter? Hm. Give him more. No. I have got. You take. Oh, Nandarāṇī is outside? Why she is outside?
Woman: It's the baby.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: Lotus is blessing. And that disc and club is for punishing. Viṣṇu has to see two ways because He's the Lord. So, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Just like the state. State is meant for punishing the criminals and giving protection to the law-abiding citizen. Wherefrom this idea is taken? It is taken from Viṣṇu. Everything. Because He is the supreme maintainer. So everything is required for maintaining. So this gada, the club, and the disc is for punishing the disobedient, the demons, or those who are harassing devotees. To punish them the Viṣṇu-cakra is there. Just like Mahārāja Ambarīṣa, he was harassed by Durvāsā Muni, and Viṣṇu-cakra punished him sufficiently.
Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: So therefore they take more interest in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam because that is the actual explanation of Vedānta. Just like in the Vedānta-sūtra, the, what is Brahman, Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The inquiry is, "What is Brahman, Absolute Truth?" The Vedānta-sūtra answers... The Vedānta-sūtra is made like that, questions and answers like that. So answer is janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything is emanating." He is the ultimate fountainhead of everything. Just now we tried to explain that the state functions protecting the good citizens and punishing the criminals. That should be the state business. Wherefrom this idea came? The law and... What is called? The law and order department or what is that?
Devotee: Law and order.
Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false. So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā how can it be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow. Shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fountainhead of all emanation. That is Absolute Truth.
Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: Pet, like that. Dhol guṇār śūdra paśu and narī. Nari means woman. (laughs) Just see. He has classified the narī amongst these class, dhol, guṇār, śūdra, paśu, narī. Ihe sab śaśan ke adhikārī. Sasan ke adhikārī means all these are subjected for punishment. And what about the guest?
Govinda dāsī: Oh, the guest? It's coming.
Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:
Prabhupāda: So śaśan ke adhikārī means they should be punished. (laughs) Punished means, just like dhol, when the, I mean to say, sound is not very hard, dag-dag, if you beat it on the border, then it comes to be nice tune. Similarly, paśu, animals, if you request, "My dear dog, please do not go there." Hut! (laughter) "No, my dear dog." Hut! This is the way.(?) Similarly, woman. If you become lenient, then she will be troublesome. So in India still, in villages, whenever there is some quarrel between husband wife, the husband beats and she is tamed. (laughs) In civilized society, "Oh, you have done this?" Immediately some criminal case. But in uncivilized society they don't care for court or civilized way of... Kicharī.
Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: In those days the highest punishment was cange utthanā. Cange utthanā means a platform is made very high and swords are put in the, this way. And one man is thrown on the swords. That is called cange utthanā. So the arrangement was to punish him like that. So when the arrangement was made, everyone became frightened that "This man will be killed." So they presented the fact to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He is Your devotee. He has served so much. Now he is in danger. If You kindly send some note to the king, he is also great admirer, then he may save his life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused, "Oh, he has misappropriated state's money, and you want Me to approach a pound-shilling man, king." He was not seeing even the king. "Oh, this is not possible for him. Let him be punished. He has taken money from the state. I don't wish to interfere." Then nobody could request him anything. So some way or other, the news approached the king, and the king was astonished, "Oh, why this arrangement was made for killing him? I never ordered.
Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:
Prabhupāda: There is a version by Rāmānujācārya. Rāmānujācārya, he was a great ācārya of this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. His spiritual master gave him mantra: "My dear boy, you chant this mantra silently. Nobody can hear. It is very..." So then he asked, "What is the effect of this mantra?" He said, "By chanting this mantra, by meditation, you'll get liberation." So he immediately went out and in a public, big meeting he said that "You chant this mantra. You'll be all liberated." (laughter) So he came back to his spiritual master, and his spiritual master was very angry that "I told you that you should chant silently." He said, "Yes, I have committed offense. So whatever punishment you like, you can give me. But because you told me that this mantra will liberate, I have given it publicly.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:
If you give it up, then immediately you fall down, māyā. So this man Ajamila, because he was durācāra, naṣṭa-sadācāra, lost of all regulative principles on account of associating with a prostitute, then, although he was born of a brāhmaṇa family, he became... His livelihood was juha(?), bandy-akṣaiḥ, cheating and stealing. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. This kind of profession is garhitā. Garhitāṁ means... Hitā means beneficial. But this profession is garhitā because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished either by the king's law or by the God's law. I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the pāpīs, then there will be no more existence because everybody is pāpī. If you take sword and kill the pāpīs, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing the pāpa-bīja. Pāpa-bīja means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to śāstra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also. But still he does stealing. He knows either from the state point of view or śāstra point of view, and he sees practically. Still he does it.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda viraheṇa me
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not.
Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:
Prabhupāda: According to Bhagavad-gītā, there are four classes of men who deride at God and four classes of men who approaches God.
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Atheist class of men, who are always engaged in sinful activities, and therefore fools... They don't believe in the next life. Therefore they are fools. There is next life. They say, "Oh, we don't care for next life. Let us do whatever we like." That is a foolish proposition. Because there is next life. Just like a man he becomes irresponsible. He says, "I don't care for government or law. I can do whatever I like." That means he's risking his life. As soon as he'll be arrested, he'll be punished.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that these are all government property. He takes away. That is stealing. And when he's caught he's arrested and he's punished. So similarly, whatever you are collecting... Suppose you are drinking a glass of water from the river. Is the river your property?
Bob: No.
Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: That I can understand.
Dr. Kapoor: I came away. And as I was coming to Vṛndāvana, you see, I think it was by way of punishment, you see, for being..., for remaining outside Vṛndāvana for such a long period that the strange thing happened, you see. And Rādhārāṇī made me undergo a prāyaścitta before I came back. (laughs)
Śyāmasundara: A what?
Dr. Kapoor: You see, what happened was, it was the...
Prabhupāda: Prāyaścitta. Intonation, what do you call?
Dr. Kapoor: No.
Prabhupāda: Prāyaścitta, what is the exact English?
Dr. Kapoor: Penance.
Devotee: Atonement.
Prabhupāda: Atonement.
Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, if a man wants to become animal, he becomes worse than animal. A tiger, a tiger eats meat and he has got equipments in his body, what is called, nails, teeth, immediately pounce upon any animal and kills and eats. But a man cannot do that, but his teeth is different, he has no nails; therefore he has to kill animal in different way, by slaughterhouse. So he is worse than animal. You kill one animal for your eating purpose, that is one thing, but if you keep slaughterhouse for business, then you are more (indistinct). Therefore for a human being to try to become animal is worse than the animals, because... Just like you are now grown up. If you imitate that "I want to become child, so I enter anyone's house," the law will not allow you. And if you say that "My philosophy is to become a child; therefore I enter this man's house," the law will say, "All right, first of all you'll be punished." (laughter) You cannot say that. Because you are grown up you cannot act as a child. Similarly, because you are human being, if you act as an animal you'll be responsible for your acts. And you'll be punished if you do something wrong. You cannot say, "No, I have made my philosophy to become a child." That may be your personal philosophy, but law will not allow you. Ignorance is no excuse. (long pause) It has become a philosophy now to become like animals.
Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:
Prabhupāda: You cannot say that I have got a different faith. I do not care for the laws of God. If it is a law... Just like, for example, here in the state, if you kill somebody, then you have to pay for it with your life. So if that is the law in your state, why a similar law in broader sense is not there in the courts of God, law..., law of God? You can avoid the arrest by the police and punishment by the state law by tricks, but you cannot avoid by tricks the law of God. That is not possible. If you violate the law of God, then you will be punished. If you violate the law..., just like if you touch fire your hand will be burned, so this law you cannot violate. Either you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim, if you touch fire, the law of God is that it will burn. So it will not care for you whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian. So law of God is applicable to everyone. Either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you have got this faith or that faith, doesn't matter. So we have got such a God whose laws are equally respectable.
Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not preset. That you can do, because you have got little independence. It is not natural to commit suicide. It is unnatural. So, because we have got independence, we can go from nature to unnature, and we shall be prepared for that. Just like a prisoner cannot go out of the prisonhouse naturally, but somehow or other he arranges to jump over the wall and goes away. Then he becomes again criminal, for farther (indistinct). Naturally, the prisoners cannot go out of the prisonhouse. Somehow or other, he manages to go out. That means he becomes again criminal. He will be again arrested, and his term of imprisonment will be increased, or he will be punished more.
Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:
Prabhupāda: The other day we were talking with some scientists. We came to this conclusion, that the scientists, big scientists, they are simply concerned with the laws of nature, because the laws of nature are very stringent. For example, there is death. Everyone will die. So nobody can check death. However great scientist he may, he cannot stop death. By laws of nature one is becoming old. By your scientific advancement you can stop first of all. So the science means they are trying to overcome the stringent laws of nature, but so far... Not so far—even in the past in the human history they could not. In the present also they are unable. They say in future they will be able. But how we can believe it? Because in the past they could not; in the present also they are unable. How they can overcome the laws of nature in the future? History repeats. Same failure there is (indistinct). Therefore the divine means, as we define, the divine means the controller of the laws of nature. Laws of nature there is, and everyone is under the laws of nature. Nobody can overcome the laws of nature. Just like state laws. Every citizen is bound to abide by the state law. He cannot overcome it. If..., if he overcomes it then, or violates it, the violation of law, and he becomes punishable. Similarly the laws of nature means laws of God. Just like your president is the giver of your state law. Similarly, as soon as we say laws of nature, there must be giver of them. In our śāstra, the Vedic literature, it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma, religion, means the codes given by God, and we have to abide by those laws. When we do not abide by those laws, then we violate the laws of nature, of God, and we become punishable.
Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:
Prabhupāda: That should be the aim of human endeavor. Not that we should simply live like animals. Animals cannot get out of the gross and subtle body because to extricate oneself one must know in fact what God is. An animal cannot know what God is, but a human being can. That is the opportunity afforded by this body; nature gives us this human body just to understand God, and if we simply use it for animal propensities, we again go to the animal kingdom. That is a form of punishment.
Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:
Prabhupāda: That's all. The finger, so long it is serving my body like this, like this, it is in real condition, real, healthy condition. And if it is painful—it cannot serve—then it is not in healthy condition. So therefore any living entity who is not serving Kṛṣṇa, he is not in healthy condition. He is in māyā. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa's service, he is in māyā. That is, Kṛṣṇa says,
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
He is struggling hard within this material nature because he is not serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore his punishment is to struggle hard in different species of life. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and he is transmigrating but becoming happy this way or that way, that way, that way.
Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: It is a barren land, icy land, that's all. Huge land icy.
Devotee (3): They are being punished.
Prabhupāda: And I was in month of June, still in the morning the wind was so cold. And there is double glass in every window, double glass. Just like aeroplane, double. And at half past eleven in the month of June, when in your country it is half past eleven o'clock, that is evening. And at half past three o'clock, morning. And still the little night, that is just like dusk; it is not completely dark. And laborer class... (speaks to someone in Hindi) Keep it open. (break) (indistinct) Every corner of the street, Lenin's picture. All books are sold, they are Lenin. No other literature. You cannot get taxi. Poor men, they cannot pay for taxi. Very little number. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him, "Now we shall go. Get me taxi." So he, "Yes, it is Moscow." So he got down, he personally showed me, "Instead of taking taxi waiting, please go in this way when you go to your hotel." He showed me shortcut. People are walking, and they are running for the bus. It is not at all a rich country. A poor country. And if you see the shops, you will find old (indistinct), just like antique shop. Because you cannot purchase generally, everything you have to purchase from government store, and in queue. It is botheration. And actually in India it is going to happen like this. Everything you have to purchase in queue.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:
Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." It is the government's duty to see that anyone who is professing Christian, "Why he's killing?" Immediately he should be punished that "You are professing as Christian and you are killing."
Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: By engaging. That is our school. It is a school. If a student does not learn nicely, you cannot say, "Get out." As far as possible. But when it is absolutely impossible to correct him, then you have to ask. And if there is money, equal you have to manage some money, what can be done? But I don't think if we try our best to correct him, this ultimate punishment will be required. Human being, after all human being, and our business is to teach and become ideal ourself. Āpani ācari prabhu jīvere śikhāya. We have to teach by our personal behavior. If you rise early in the morning, if you take your bath, if you sit down regularly and keep them (indistinct), how he can deny? How one can deny? It is not possible.
Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:
Brahmānanda: ...what the punishment is.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Neither you can say the magistrate partial, the judge. Somebody, he gives, "Give him degree for one million dollars." Another: "Hang him." So the judge is not partial. He is getting his money. He's getting his punishment. He's simply making judgement. He's not impartial. He's not enemy to anyone or friend to anyone. Similarly according to your work, you'll get punishment or reward by God. God is not partial.
Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Fire, disease and debt. How he instructed us. If you take loan from somewhere, interest compounded, one day it will become so big, unmanageable by you. Similarly fire may be very, a spark, but gradually it will so increase, oh, blazing fire. Disease also. Now there is little pain. Now, if it increases, it becomes tuberculosis. So therefore he has said: Never neglect these things: fire, or smaller or higher." They're always dangerous. (pause) There is a, in India, there is a proverb, hīrā and khīrā. Hīrā means diamond and khīrā means cucumber. It has no value, a few cents. And diamond is very valuable. But if some, somebody steals khīrā, he's also criminal, and one steals hīrā, he's also criminal. The punishment is equal. If he says: "I have stolen one khīrā. What is the value of it?" But by law, he's criminal. Never mind. (pause) (break) ...that he'll be happy in that way.
Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That is scientist. But you haven't got that. But why you...? You are punishable. Just like if somebody is not a bona fide medical practitioner, but he gives: "Doctor M.D.," he's punishable. There are so many bogus. They are not detected. But if they are detected, they are punishable. If you say that: "Yes, I am a student, I am not a scientist, I have no full knowledge," that is right. You have no perfect knowledge. Still you say "There is no God." How is that? You have no perfect knowledge. How do you say there is no God. Eh? They say there is no God.
Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is none complete. Except Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's complete. Our pro, philosophy is that we have to select if we... That we must have to. Otherwise, there is no life. Just like you scientists, you quote so many leaders, scientific leaders. Without this, there is no life. So... Just like in the Bengali there is a proverb that if I to, if I have to steal and become a thief, why not plunder the government treasury? Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy.
Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Why conventional? Actually. Just like a child and a teacher, they are of the same. He is also human being and children also, human being. But still, the children are controlled by the teacher. Therefore superior. It is not convention. If you disobey the superior, you will be punished. That superiority is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Going to hell, that's all. You are trying to be naked; nature will say, "Yes, you stand here naked for ten thousand years." Yes. That is the punishment for being naked. Human life is not meant for becoming naked. That is according to Vedic civilization a great sin. You see. So their, their propensity they are increasing to become naked like our George... What's his name? Lennon, Lennon. So next time he is going to be tree, stand up. Otherwise wherefrom the trees come? They cannot explain. You become tree. That's all. Just like the Nalakūvara; they were taking bath naked without caring for Nārada. All right, you become naked for one hundred years.
Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:
Prabhupāda: Then you'll be punished. The state laws give you law that you cannot drive your car on the left.
Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: When there is real, righteous fight, for good cause, that fighting is all right. Just like the state gives punishment one person, "This man should be hanged. Kill him." So who is blaming the state, "Oh, the state is killing this man?" That is right. It is good for him. In Manu-saṁhitā there is good background. So similarly, everything is good when it is done for the good. And God is good. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious move... And everything is bad when it is done for māyā. That's all. So these wars are declared not for Kṛṣṇa's sake; by the politicians' whims. So they must be responsible for this war.
Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: So you can, at any time, visit our temple. You can understand, try to understand the conception of God. We shall try to explain. But we can, at least, so far our knowledge is concerned, we have got a clear conception of God, what is meant by God. Therefore we do not accept the so-called dogs as God. No. So many people come: "I am God. I am God." We kick on their face. We don't accept. We don't accept such cheap gods. God is one, and He's all-powerful. That is our conception. We all servants of God. If anyone says that "I am servant of God," he's welcome. He's my master. The servant of God is my master. And if anyone claims to become God, I kick on his face. This is our principle. Because he's pretender, cheater. He should be punished immediately.
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But at the present moment, they are encroaching upon others' right. And that is sinful, and he's punishable. Just like every living entity has got the right to live at the cost of God. But the human being is interfering with the rights of living of the animals. They have got the right.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: ...what kind of service we shall give? I can give you one example. I have seen it practically, that in Calcutta one neighbor, neighboring gentleman, he is (has) a daughter-in-law, he (she) was beating her young son. So I inquired, "Why that daughter-in-law...?" Because her father-in-law was of my age, little older. "So why daughter-in-law is punishing her son? What is the fault?" Naturally, young, a small child. So the report came that the, one of the child, one of the boy, was suffering from typhoid, fever, and another boy stole from the kitchen some parāṭā and gave him to eat. And when the mother came into knowledge, she was punishing, that "Why you have given this parāṭā?" Because in typhoid, no solid food is taken. So he cannot... But the suffering child was thinking that "Mother is not giving me food." So he requested his younger brother, "You give me some food." So he does not know. He has given the food. But the result is that he is being punished. So without knowing how to give service, sometimes we may be punished.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Śyāmasundara: Ignorance.
Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment.
Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Similarly, king's business is to give protection to the faithful and punish the unfaithful.
Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: So it is the king's duty. Just like the king, it is the government's duty to see that nobody cheats. If a person without any medical qualification, if he writes "Doctor, Medical practitioner," he should be punished. Similarly, if one is claiming to be brāhmaṇa, he must act as brāhmaṇa. If one is claiming to be kṣatriya, he must act as a kṣatriya. Now, what are the qualifications of brāhmaṇa, what are the qualifications of kṣatriya, they are there already in Bhagavad-gītā.
Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Everything, I have explained. Now our socialist idea is: God is the father of all living beings. And whatever there is on the surface of the globe, on the sea, on the sky, everything belongs to God. And all the sons of God has equal right to enjoy it. But nobody... (aside:) He is finished? But nobody is allowed to take more than he requires. If one takes more than he requires, he's to be punished. This is our socialist idea. As we think all living entities sons of God, therefore even a lizard in my room should not starve.
Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: No. There's... Just like you are a citizen of French government. You are also independent. If the government says that if you do this, then you'll be punished. So when you do that, that is misuse of independence. Otherwise you are independent.
Discussion about Guru Maharaji -- August 13, 1973, Paris:
Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him.
Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
Māyā... Just like if there are criminals, then the police force will be increased, punishment will be increased, so similarly, human beings, they are becoming godless, so by nature there must be punishment. They will not be supplied food. The food supply will be restricted. After all, the food is in the hands of nature.
Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Only the criminal. And he'll be punished, that's all. The result, he'll be punished. Beaten with the shoes of policeman, that's all.
Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Atheist means criminal, they're punishable, that's all. And the more people becoming godless, they're being punished by nature.
Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yeah, naturally. No... They have no discrimination. They have to abide by the laws of nature. But you have got discrimination; therefore you are punished.
Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes. "You do not know. You come to us and learn how to trust, how to know. And if you speak lies that you do not know what is God that is a different thing. Then you should be punished." People should be given chance of believing, trusting in God. They have declared. So it is their duty. The state duty is to see how people are trusting. That is state's duty. Constitution says that nobody can steal. Is it not state's duty that people are not becoming thieves and stealing? Is it not the duty of the state? Similarly, if you, if you have accepted this that "In God we trust," you must see that everyone trusts in God. And that is scientifically. Not sentimentally. It is the duty of the state to see.
Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: For sometimes every thief flourishes. That is another thing. But he must be punished.
Devotee: Hmm. He was punished.
Prabhupāda: You can cheat for some time everyone, but you cannot be allowed to cheat everyone for all the time. That is not possible. (break) ...law. Therefore Lord Rāmacandra could create millions of Sītā. So the purpose was to kill this atheist.
Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished.
Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol. The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom—"Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing"—that means next stage is your punishment. That is going on.
Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: No, what is the difficulty, first of all?
Candanācārya: You once said if someone is not attracted to chanting, then he is being punished by Yamarāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you, if by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you can save your suffering, what is the difficulty, not to accept it? Everyone is suffering in this material world. And everyone is trying to get out of the suffering. That is also a fact.
Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: No, that is their ignorance, foolishness. Therefore a devotee will not say like that. A devotee will say, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ: (SB 10.14.8) "My dear Lord, I am suffering. It is due to my past mischievous activities, but you are rescuing me by giving little punishment. I would have been punished more, but you have given little punishment. Thank you very much." This is devotion.
Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That is a sort of punishment of sinful activities. When you fall sick, it is due to sinful activity. So you are punished.
Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight. Then there will be peace in the world. The class of men who do not believe in God, they should be punished, because they are creating all the troubles.
Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That... This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandeśa. So He did not care to take sandeśa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, "My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandeśa. I have given you." "Mother, what is the difference between sandeśa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same." "Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth." That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, "Well, this is also earth, this is also... Why...? The pot is not required. Put water here." Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a child. (break) ...and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. (break) ...The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, "There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash. Why you are punishing me?" But will that be accepted?
Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Then if there is no God, then who will judge what is evil and what is right? If there is no God? People are abiding the law, "Keep to the right, keep to the left," because they know, "Behind this order, there is government." If he does not keep the arrangement, then he will be punished. So as soon as you accept the principles of bad and good, then you have to accept God. Now, this kind of theologician, some years ago his opinion was something, and now his opinion is different.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Because their folly is... They therefore do not take authority. Otherwise they'll be exposed. Yes. śāstra-cakṣusā. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). These are the injunctions. (dog barks) Yes, come on. We have got your punishment. So there is an argument: pala bonatu hoya (?). "I'm not afraid of you. Although I'm, I'm going away, I'm not afraid of you. (laughter) Don't think that I am afraid of you." This is dog business. They'll go, "gow!" and go away, go away. They'll not come forward. Come on. (laughter) (break) Well, our every day is a New Year. Nava-navayauvana. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, the more you advance, you see new year, new year. That's all. Nothing is old. People are seeing that they are simply chanting the old slogan, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- January 19, 1974, Hawaii:
Prabhupāda: As they are wasting, they will be punished. Kṛṣṇa's supply is being wasted. That will be punished (break) ...those coconuts...
Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: Coconut, you collect, and each one of you use at least two coconuts daily, drinking water and the pulp. It is very digestive and nutritious. The pulp is very nutritious and digestive. If you simply take the pulp from two sides and drink that water, you don't require to eat anything. It is so nutritious. So better collect, and so long you can get them, use two coconuts daily yourself. (japa) (break) ...purchase that Kṛṣṇa, and when he'll ask this man to "Give me that Kṛṣṇa book, let me read," this "Kṛṣṇa" will give him some benefit, his calling "Kṛṣṇa Book."
Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura punished one Viṣikiṣeṇa. I'll tell that story. It is a fact. One avatāra came. And he was doing that in the village. And they complained to the police officer. And it went to the High Commissioner. And then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was that time Magistrate. So the Commissioner knew that he is a pious man. So he entrusted the matter. And it was a long story. I'll tell you some time.
Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Yes, as you, as you... Just like police. Police will punish you. You will have to suffer. But it is due to your criminal action police has arrested you. You cannot make police responsible for your suffering.
Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished.
Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Why they should interpret? Interpretation is required when there is no understanding. If the matter is clearly understood, why interpretation? This is rascaldom. Everyone understands this is called glass. And what is the use of interpretation? Here is a glass. Everyone can understand. Or spectacle. No, no. This is meaning this. Why? If the thing is clearly understood, there is no question of interpretation. You cannot give. Suppose if you go to the court, if the thing is clearly understood that "This man has committed this criminal activity, he should be punished," so where is the difficulty? No. If somebody... "No no. This 'He should be punished' means not now, after three hundred years he should be punished." Is that interpretation? He should be punished immediately. That's all.
Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...bench, standing. The small children, they are punished, "Stand up on the bench." It is like that.
Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:
Pañcadraviḍa: If a man goes into the road he runs over a dog, there will not be so much punishment. But if a man goes into the road, he runs over...
Prabhupāda: That you have made, your laws. You have made that, if you kill a man and if you kill an animal, that is not equal. That is your... But that does not mean when it is said, "Thou shalt not kill"... This is no argument.
Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:
Mahāṁśa: He's an elderly gentleman?
Prabhupāda: No, no, only twenty-five. (break) ...all these culprits, the burglars, the thieves, they should be punished exemplary. (chuckles) Yes, that should be done. (break) One telegram: "Come immediately Bombay. Everything is all right, Kṛṣṇa has blessed you." (break) I mean to say intelligent in their part, they'll at least give a chance to him. Yes. (break) ...doing all right.
Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: No. There is no such thing. That is separation. Just like gopīs, they are full of anxiety: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to the pasturing ground." Their anxiety is there. Just like Rukmiṇī, she was thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa may not give me up. He is talking in this way." She fainted. So anxiety is there. So the anxiety is that one may not be separated from Kṛṣṇa. That is the anxiety. And actually there is no separation, but the feeling of separation out of ecstatic love. Just like one who has got love for the other person, beloved, he always thinks like that, "My beloved may not be separated from me." This is ecstasy of love. Just like a miser man who has got much wealth, he always thinks, "My money may not be lost. My money may not be lost." Out of his too much attachment for the money, he thinks like that. Is it not? "How shall I protect this money? How shall I protect this?" To earn money is also troublesome. To keep money also troublesome. And when it is lost, that is also troublesome. This is the position. But there is no such thing, loss, but the anxiety is there. We shall return from here? (break) ...vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. So both the sādhu and the duṣkṛtina, by Kṛṣṇa's two activities, act differently to the devotees and to the demons. They realize. That is their achievement. By punishment, this Kāliya realized, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." And devotees, by out of love, they realize. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is Absolute. In either process He is realized. Mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ. If one is sincere, then they gradually make progress. Yes. (break) ...vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām.
Girirāja: "O Lord, You have descended especially for the purpose of annihilating all kinds of disturbing elements within the world, and because You are the Absolute Truth, there is no difference between Your mercy and punishment." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...surgical operation is there, the knife is being used on the body, that means he is getting relief. It is not punishment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:
Girirāja: "Because You are the Absolute Truth, there is no difference between Your mercy and punishment."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is to be understood. If we understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Absolute Truth, then this is understanding, that either suffering or enjoying, it is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. There must be some purpose. When Kṛṣṇa puts me into suffering, there must be some purpose. So we should welcome because it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susumīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātmā-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). (Hindi) (break) "...misdeeds. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He is reforming me, slightly suffering. I would have suffered very greatly on account of my past deeds, but He is kindly accommodating me by giving little suffering. That's all." (break) ...by the wife of Kāliya.
Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...to becomes angry by Kṛṣṇa is auspicious, auspicious. It is a very nice verse. "It is very auspicious that you have become angry upon him. He is getting salvation." (break) ...the punishment of Kṛṣṇa, one has to execute many pious activities in his past life, just to get the punishment of Kṛṣṇa. And what to speak of love of Kṛṣṇa, how much pious activities one has to do. If for being punished by Kṛṣṇa, one has to undergo lots of pious activities in the past life, then just see, to be loved by Kṛṣṇa, how much one has to undergo pious activities. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). That is described. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Puñja means heaps, volumes, volumes of pious activities. Then one can come to Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Nobody can come to Kṛṣṇa unless he has background of pious activities and one who has become freed from all sinful activities. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. This is the qualification.
Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: ...double feature is not understood by the Māyāvādīs. If Kṛṣṇa has created the whole, so why he should be separate? He is not separate, still separate. (break) ...regularly this book Kṛṣṇa, he will be liberated, simply by reading this book.
Girirāja: (break) "...narration of the Kāliya serpent and his punishment will need fear no more the envious activities of snakes. The Lord also declared, 'If one takes a bath in the Kāliya lake where My cowherd boyfriends and I have bathed, or if one, fasting for a day, offers oblations to the forefathers from the water of this lake, he will be relieved from all kinds of sinful reaction.' " (break)
Bhāgavata: ...actually are devotees or how do they become demons? Are they devotees? Obviously Kāliya is... Just like Jaya and Vijaya, they were devotees. And due to some offense, then they became demons and they fought with Kṛṣṇa to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is living in this material world is a demon. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is your mother?
Morning Walk -- May 3, 1974, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: Then I was not able to grasp it, though I am born Vaiṣṇava from my right birth. (break)
Yaduvara: Lord Indra is saying that Kṛṣṇa is so merciful that without punishing the offenses of the demons, that He devises means so that their false prestige is subdued. How is that? How does he devise means without punishment.
Prabhupāda: This is the device, that he agitated Indra, and he came down and surrendered unto Him. This is the device. Not directly punishing. That he came to understand what is the value of Kṛṣṇa.
Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering. Why you have caught me? What right you have got to punish me? Because we are the same.
Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: If you enjoy more sex life, nature says, "All right, you become impotent for ten years." And still he wants to enjoy. Little this way, that way—immediately punishment. "Oh, you have eaten more, three days suffer. No diet, no food. Suffer dysentery." And they are enjoying. What is this enjoyment? As soon as violate a little of the nature's law you are immediately punished. Na te viduḥ. Īśa-tantryāṁ baddhāḥ. Īśa-tantryām, the laws of nature, they are so much bound up, hands and legs. Still, they are declaring freedom. What is the freedom? Immediately he will be kicked by shoes as soon as he violates a little, immediately. There is ocean of salt. Now we require salt for making our foodstuff very tasty. But if you take little more salt, you cannot eat. No, you cannot eat. If you think, "Oh, so much salt? Let me put more salt, more salt," it will be useless. You can take only so much quantity. That's all. In this way you are bound up, always. And still, you are declaring freedom. What freedom? What is the meaning of this freedom? But they are fools. They cannot understand.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore, if they have no knowledge what is sinful, simply by instruction, "Don't do something sinful," so what is the use? They must know. We give in the beginning, in our society, "These are are sinful activities." What is that? Meat-eating, sinful activity. And gambling, illicit sex, and intoxication. You must give it up. All these European and American boys, they were habituated to all these things from the very birth. They did not know they are sinful. But since they have come to me, I have said, "These things are sinful." They have given up. And just compare with their character, with their behavior... (break)
- daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etām (taranti te)
- (BG 7.14)
So we must know what is the law of nature, what nature wants. Nature does not want at least human being should be sinful. Then you will be punished.
Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: Yes, Therefore those who do not do that, they have been described, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). One who does not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, they're all rascals. That is our test. A man may be very nicely dressed, running fast in the motor car. Ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" "No, sir." "You are a rascal." That's all. Finish all business. We don't give any respect. We can give respect as a formality, but we can understand immediately, "Here is a rascal." That's all. Is that correct? Yes. To find out a rascal is very difficult job? Simply see that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. He's a rascal. That's all. That they may say, "You are very sectarian." Just like a criminal, he's punished, and he may say to high-court judge, "You are very sectarian. You are punishing me, and the other man, you awarded one million dollars. What is this?" Because he gave before a judgement that "This man must get this one million dollars," and next moment, he punishes one man, "Go to jail for six years." So the criminal may say, "Oh, you are so partial. You are giving, sending me to cell, and the other man, you are giving one million dollar. How is this?" But he does not know that he judging according to his work.
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: That is their punishment. They remain always in darkness that Jesus had a material body.
Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long you have a material body, you must suffer. Just like in prisonhouse. When the criminals are put there, they are punished different way according to the criminal offense, similarly, you are, we are all criminals, and for different types of suffering we have got different types of body. Different types of body means different types of suffering. Just like this tree is punished, "Stand here for three hundred years." This is punishment. Just like we do, "Stand up on the bench!" Children. So any kind of material body, even Lord Brahmā, that is suffering, different types of suffering. That's all. And if you want to be free from the suffering, then get out of this material body. This is... Kṛṣṇa says that this is a place for suffering. Where does He say?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:
Prabhupāda: Under Kṛṣṇa's plan. Therefore you cannot violate Kṛṣṇa's law. As soon as you violate nature's law, then you have to be punished. (pause)
Guru-kṛpa: Bhagavad-gītā, that prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni...
Prabhupāda: ...guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Yes, and prakṛti is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That means, nature's law means Kṛṣṇa's law or Kṛṣṇa's plan. So what is the Kṛṣṇa's plan? What Kṛṣṇa wants?
Guru-kṛpa: Kṛṣṇa wants every living entity to come back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. This is the plan. If this plan is not executed, then there is suffering. So this human life is given to the living entity for understanding this plan and do the needful. If they do not understand, then they are punished.
Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again. Therefore we find varieties of forms, but in each and every form there is the soul. Now, in the human form of life, we should utilize our intelligence that "This constant change of body, how it can be stopped?" And we should remain in our eternal body because I am eternal, but psychologically I am simply changing different forms of body, and at the time of change of body I have to undergo so many sufferings. To remain within the womb of the mother for ten months in packed up condition, it is a very terrible punishment.
Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:
Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.
Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:
Prabhupāda: Yes. There will be no rice, no wheat, no sugar, no fruits, gradually. So much sinful activities, they must be punished like that.
Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:
Hṛdayānanda: You said that by committing sinful activities one has to be punished by the laws of nature. So if one is repentant is he still punished?
Prabhupāda: Yes, provided he is actually repentant.
Hṛdayānanda: Then he is not punished?
Prabhupāda: Punished, but short cut. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). That is for the devotees, not for the nondevotee. Nondevotee must be punished.
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Nowadays small boys, they are learning how to smoke. When I was first in America, in Butler, so I saw small children, ten to twelve years or almost ten, nine. They were smoking. I was surprised because in India, at least, that is not allowed. I think there is law. If any boy smokes less than sixteen years old, he is punished, in India. What is that?
Guest (7): I am looking at him. He is ten years old.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you can give him some book to see.
Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:
Prabhupāda: ...and standing naked, that those who are fond of nudie-ism, they can get in next life. "All right, you stand naked for many years." This is the punishment. Human society, naked, that is their punishment.
Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:
Prabhupāda: There are many places. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is given for practicing God consciousness, and they have become advanced civilized, they are cultivating nudie-ism. Is it not? Nudie-ism. So the punishment is that "All right, you become nudie, you remain standing in one place, for five thousand years." (laughter) That is right. The trees live up till five thousand years. They live.
Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:
Prabhupāda: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā...
- viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā
- kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā
- avidyā-karma-samjñānya
- tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate
- (CC Madhya 6.154)
The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy—these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy—material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment.
Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: They do not know. What can be done. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti (BG 7.25). They do not know that behind everything there is a supreme power. He'll punish. "Never mind, we shall be punished." You'll become dog. "Oh what is the wrong if I become a dog?" They say like that, "What is the wrong?" He thinks that "I'll get good facilities for sex. There will be no need of apartment. I'll save the rent. To become a dog and have sex life on the street, it is good facility." This is going on.
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?
Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: That means you must obey your father. Otherwise you'll be kicked. (Laughter) You are so rascal that you don't feel obliged to your father who has given you so much things, so many things. You are such a rascal. Therefore you must be punished.
karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa,
- sakali viṣera bāṇḍha
Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "The karmīs and jñānīs, they are simply drinking poison."
Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Certainly. And they are being accountable. If they become so dull-headed, then God's power will make him a tree: "Stand here. Stand up here for three thousand years. That's all. You are so dull-headed that you have no sense, so become a tree so that even if you are cut, you cannot protest. You have no sense, senses." That is the punishment. "If you don't eat prasādam, then eat stool." This is the arrangement. So they are being punished. But they are so dull-headed, they cannot understand.
Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: No, therefore you are under the control of God. You understand it. So you cannot become free. Therefore death is there, ultimately. You are thinking you are free of the kingdom of God, or laws of God. "No, you are not free. You'll die and you'll accept another body and according to My decision." That is God. This is a question like "Why government created punishment? Why not enjoy ourself without any punishment?" It is a question like that. And that cannot be. It is not possible. That is the proof that there is God.
Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Another body, immediately. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is the tangible proof that there is God. You have to die and accept another body. Just like the proof of government is that you are acting irresponsibly, you must be arrested or be punished. That's all.
Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:
Devotee: ...citizens in the state are punished by the government by being put into the prison house and that similarly, in this human form of life, if we are irresponsible, then we are punished by God by birth and death. So what about the man who is responsible for his family and executes his duty ni...
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Cats and dogs have also responsible for the family. What is credit for him?
Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Germans, they extracted fat from stool. And that was used as butter. This is scientific. They'll have to eat stool even. They have eaten. In the last war, concentration camp, they have eaten their own stool. There was no food. So nature will punish them in that way. They'll eat everything. This godless civilization will lead people to such condition of life. Kadharya bhakṣaṇa kare, tara janma adho pate yaya. This life they will eat everything, all nonsense thing, and next life they become pig, cats, dogs. That's all. This will be.
Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: If you alone live in this field eternally, that is not bliss. That is punishment. You see? So that is nature. We want ānanda, blissfulness. Therefore those who are... Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). After severe austerities they rise up to the Brahmān effulgence, but on account of his original nature of ānanda, he cannot remain there. He again falls down. "Oh, it was better, family life. What is this nonsense? Eternally sit up in this field? What is this? Let me go to the town and work there." You see? That is your nature. Therefore these impersonalists who want to merge, they can merge, but there they cannot remain. They will again come. These so-called sannyāsīs, they give up everything—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā—Vivekananda or this Karpatri. Again they come to these material activities. Somebody takes social work, somebody takes political work. But if it is mithyā, if it is false, why...? (break) But they have... (break) Again come, open hospital, do political work. They cannot stick up. That is not possible.
Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:
Nalinī-kānta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.
Prabhupāda: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: ...take the credit. And what is your credit? It is already there for millions of years. Why you are anxious to produce this? Without your help it is being produced. So why you spending our hard-earned money and cheating us? You are cheater. You should be punished. These things are already going on. For you there is no scarcity of life. Then why you are spending our tax to show your talent? What is your talent? You are simply cheating us—"We shall do it..." You do or do not, the things are already there. Why you are taking our money to make research? You are cheating us. You should be punished. You will be punished. Even the state does not punish, you'll be punished by the Supreme Lord because you are cheating. So you can cheat us, but you cannot cheat God. Regular punishment will be there. Millions of years it has been going on, and I want to tell (?) you, just tell (?) you (indistinct). The same example-millions of dogs are barking, and this man has learned how to bark. He is selling tickets. You see? You are driving away barking dog, and because this rascal has learned how to bark, you have to pay for it. What do you say?
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's... You remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian. You are acting like a śūdra, and you are advertising yourself as a brāhmaṇa. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. something," that is punishable.
Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: The immediate program should be village organization as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels, and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society. If food grains are produced in an organized way, human society can produce ten times what they are presently producing.
Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:
Paramahaṁsa: The person who doesn't know, he thinks that the child is innocent...
Prabhupāda: Innocent child. He's not innocent. He is sinful. He is being, what is called, chastised. Svakarma-phala-rūpa-jīva. That is the word, svakarma. One suffers... (aside:) You can sit down here, just like... Everyone suffers the reaction of his own work. Svakarma-phala-rūpa-jīva. Because he is a child, he takes sympathy, "Oh, such a small child is being killed." We take it like that. It is that he is the potent criminal. Now he is being punished.
Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another. And if he becomes a tree, stand up for five thousand years. And we have to pass through all these stages. He has come to the human form of body. Still he neglects. He continues suffering. They are mad after sense enjoyment; and accepting different material bodies, that means suffering. As soon as you accept a material body, this is suffering. But the suffering of the trees is more suffering. In a forlorn place he stand up for five thousand years and tolerate all the blast, wind, scorching heat, water.
He doesn't know that "I may become a tree like this." Then he must be... Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities.
Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Every, all world was emperor, the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and the family. Sa-sāgara. Sa-sāgara means "including all the oceans." That means the whole world. There was one flag only during the time of Mahārāja Parīkṣit. And he first saw the cow-killing maybe in Africa or in Arabia. One black man was trying to kill a cow, and Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on tour, and immediately he punished him. That is Kali. The black man means Africa. Or where other place, black men?
Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: No, no, some... Everyone is bad. The man who is talking, he is also bad man. Everyone is bad man. Here there is no good man. Do you think in the prison house any good men go there? All criminals. So anyone who has come in this material world, he is a criminal. Therefore he is punished by this material body, simply suffering. Why you have covered? Because this body cannot tolerate this cold. So the body means suffering, material body. Anyone who has got this material body, he is suffering. Nobody is enjoying. (It) is a wrong idea. He is thinking... That is called māyā. He is suffering, but he is thinking, "I am enjoying." This is called māyā.
Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: Then it will be regular. It is nature's punishment. You may not care what is sinful life, but that is recorded. That is foolishness. "I don't care for God, don't care for what is going to happen." That is foolishness. People, lower planetary system, they are like that. In this planet also. In Western countries there are many places. "Don't care for anything, what is sinful life, what is going to happen. Let us enjoy, that's all." This is their philosophy. "Let us enjoy, that's all." Materialistic point of view is like that. They do not know that we are eternal and we are responsible for our activities. That is knowledge. But they have no knowledge. They simply want to enjoy. They do not care for death also. Simply sense gratification. That's all. This is called dānava, dānava life. The scientist explain for so many varieties. They accept there are varieties. Why there are so many varieties of life?
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:
Director: It's an illness. It's just like a person can't see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can't punish a person for being homosexual. That our society says.
Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.
Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: If a thief came in we shall punish him.
Director: You should be violent?
Prabhupāda: Why not? A thief should be punished.
Director: You would punish yourself? What would you do? Would you start attacking him?
Prabhupāda: No, ourself or anyone, a thief is to be punished. A thief has to be punished. Ourself or yourself, it doesn't matter. A thief is thief. He should be punished.
Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:
Australian devotee 2: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New Zealand we have a situation where the main industry is killing animals, the biggest industry, yet there is so much rain, so much nice atmosphere over there. Why is this? Why is there such a nice atmosphere but they are killing so many cows? Is that that they are innocent and they do not know and so Kṛṣṇa is not punishing them so much?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they will be punished. (pause) (break) ...so many motor accidents. And there will be war. Then wholesale punishment. Then killing, being killed within the womb of the mother. They are being punished. Nowadays these things have been introduced. Now this child which is being killed by the mother, they are all these sinful men. They cannot come out even, out of the womb of the mother. There they are killed. Nature's law is very strict.
Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:
Australian devotee 8: Or that example, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You said that the people in India are being punished more because they are in knowledge. They have the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Amogha: On an earlier walk you were saying there are three kinds of Vedic evidence. Śruti, itihāsa, and anumāna, was it? I didn't understand what anumāna was.
Prabhupāda: Hypothesis. Hypothesis. Just like yesterday I was explaining that as soon as there is a machine, there is an operator. This is hypothesis. You cannot expect machine going on without operator. Similarly, this material nature is a machine and the operator is God. This is hypothesis. Even though you do not see God we can make this suggestion. That is human reasoning, logic. If any ordinary typewriter machine... This is a machine, but that requires operator. He is pushing this button; then it is working. It is not automatically working, any machine. So how this big machine is operating without any operator? What is this nonsense? They say, "There is no God. Nature, nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine. Just like this body. This body is machine, and the operator is the soul, and the guide is the Supersoul. As soon as the soul goes away, then the machine does not work. This is common sense. But they have no common sense; therefore they are rascals, so-called scientists and others.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: The example is given, these cataka birds, they want water from the cloud and they will never come down to take water, take water down. Similarly, devotees will simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. They'll not accept anything from this material world. (break) Example is given that sometimes the cloud, instead of giving water, gives thunderbolt. Still, they will not take water from down. That is a cataka. Although it is... Sometimes they are punished—instead of water, they are given thunderbolt—but still, they will not take any.
Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...finish his birth as cow, and who is killing, he becomes... He is stopping his progress, therefore he is punishable. Just like you have leased one apartment to live for so many years, and if somebody, by force, kicks out, then he is punishable.
Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That means they have created thieves and rogues. Therefore they are suspicious. Nowadays in the airport, everyone is searched. Then it is now taken for granted that all of them are cheats. So what is the value of this education if all of them are cheats? There is no discrimination, "Now, here is a educated professor, Dr. Ph.D., he cannot be searched." No, he will be also searched-because, "You may be Ph.D., but we know you are a cheat." (laughter) Is not the conclusion? Will he be excused if he says, "Oh, I am Ph.D." No, you must be searched. "You may be Ph.D., but you are a cheat." This is education. So what is the value of this education? And according to Vedic civilization, as soon as one is a brāhmaṇa, he is not within the jurisdiction of administration, immediately. The government has no right to check in his activities. Because he knows he is a brāhmaṇa. Four person, four or five, they are excused from the jurisdiction of law. The first is brāhmaṇa, the second is cow, the third is woman, and the fourth is old man, and fifth is the child. These five persons are not in the jurisdiction of law. No. Just like we have got practical. If a child comes and takes my spectacle away, he is not criminal. Everyone knows. But if a man takes my spectacle, then he is criminal. Similarly, a brāhmaṇa is never criminal. A cow is never criminal. These are the Vedic civilization. Woman, woman is also excused. No punishment for woman.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Vegetable has also life but we are not killing. When you pluck out the flower, the tree is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you take grains, automatically they die. Then you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even it is killing, it is not as murderous as killing a cow. Why the state hangs a man when he kills a man? The man can plead that "So many animals are being killed every day. If I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is that "You have killed one important animal."
Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: And he will believe when he is arrested and given punishment by the government, then he will believe. The criminal may say, "Oh, don't care for the government." That does not mean there is no government. And as soon as he becomes a criminal, he is arrested and punished. Then he understands there is government. So you believe or not believe, there is government. Similarly, you believe or not believe, there is God.
Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:
Prabhupāda: Challenge that "I shall kick on the face of this rascal, and if he is God, let him punish me. If he is God, let him punish me. I am prepared. So come on in the public. I kick on his face, and let him do whatever he likes. I am prepared. If it is God, let me (him) kill me by his mantra or by his will. Then I will accept him." This is challenge, that "I shall kick on his face in public, and if he is God, let him punish me." And you are so fool that you are accepting this rascal as God? You belong to American nation, advanced. You have become so rascal? Challenge like that. He has come to cheat you, and why you are so befooled that you are being cheated? He is convicted in the court that he is a, what is called, deceiver. Yes. The court judgment is there. He is a deceiver.
Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:
Prabhupāda: Now there's a warrant for his arrest. What he can do? And he is God? God is so cheap and you have accepted him as God? What is this nonsense? But we give you credit, that you are searching after God. That is... So try to understand by education. What is this nonsense, blindly accepting some rascal as God? Everyone knows God is great. Is he great? Then why he is punished by the court? This is the park?
Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:
Prabhupāda: Why should you live there? Why don't you come where things are grown?
Kuruśreṣṭha: This excessive cold is only punishment.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kuruśreṣṭha: Previously there was not such excessive cold on the planet?
Prabhupāda: There was, for the punishable person. (break) ...drinking water?
Kuruśreṣṭha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why it is open?
Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:
Prabhupāda: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment—again coming back. (break) Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Oh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know, again you are going to be... You see? "This good, bad" is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know, the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that. That is going on. Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jana... That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say "I will never do these things.
Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Yes, so go on enjoying. Then don't talk of this "How, what to do, criminal?" Go on, animal. Then why you are anxious to avoid criminality? Hmm? The dogs, hogs, they are not anxious to avoid criminality. Why you are trying to avoid criminality? Remain animal. When the dog goes left to the right, it is not criminality, but why do you prosecute a man when he drives from the left to the right? You remain dog. "Why you charge me criminality? I am dog, sir." Tell him. (laughter) Go to the court and say, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me, I am dog." Why don't you say that? Do you say like that? When you are arrested and charged in the court, you can plead, "I am dog, sir. Excuse me." Why it is not excused? He is punished, why?
Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: That means you commit another sinful activity. Then you become dependent on nature. You'll be punished. The punishment goes to you. In this way... And the whole thing becomes cumbrous. So where is the benefit of equal right, independence? Phalena paricīyate. We have to see the result of every action—whether the result is beneficial. If the result is not beneficial—the action is not beneficial. There is cases of rape cases. The victims are women. Why the victim is not man? Why? In every rape case the sufferer, or the victim, is woman. And why not the man?
Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī.
Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore their punishment is to become tree, to cat, dog, like that. That they cannot explain, why there is cat life, dog life, human life, rich(?) life. That they cannot do. All big questions, they have avoided. And they remain perpetually a rascal. That is their education. Mūḍha, Kṛṣṇa says, mūḍha, narādhama: "Lowest of the mankind." Human life was meant for real education. They remain the same rascal and dies very happily. Mūḍhas.
Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom." Then Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You go here, in the brothel, in the..., these four things." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ: "Illicit sex, and slaughterhouse, and liquor shop, and gambling." Then he requested that "Instead of going so many places, you give me some place where one place will be sufficient." Then he said, "You go where there is gold. Then you get everything." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ. Formerly, especially in Bengal, the gold merchants are taken as—that is artificial, of course—the low class because they are rich, and they indulge in these four kinds of prohibition. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:
Prabhupāda: But that you do not know, how to do good to the people. Just like a diseased man. The doctor has ordered that he should starve. But if you go in the hospital and you take sympathy with the starving patient, "Oh, you are starving for the last three days," if you give to him some food without the permission of the physician, then you will be punished. So he may think that "Oh, here is a starving man. I must give him some food." But you are liable to be punished. So first of all learn how to do good to others. So that is described here. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). To bring him to the knowledge of self-realization, that is good. If you can distribute knowledge to bring him back to his consciousness, original consciousness, that is real welfare activity. Otherwise, if you manufacture something that "This man is starving: let me give him some food," it may be wrongly done, and you are liable to be punished. So first of all, you must learn what is actually good to the human society. Then, if we do that, that is good. In ignorance, if we do it, then we may be liable to be punished. Besides that, your thought is imperfect. Just like you try to give food to some living being, but other living being you send to the slaughterhouse. You do not consider. You put your philosophy, that "The animal has no soul. They are like dead matter," but that is not the fact. The animals also have got soul, and the human being, he has got also soul. The ant has got also soul. Everyone has got. Every living being has got soul. Why you are inclined to do good to the human society? What is the reason? Why not to the animals?
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: That is time for punishment. They should build up their character, śamaḥ, damaḥ, fully controlled. When they like, they become gṛhasthas. Otherwise they are controlled. That is brāhmaṇa. For brāhmaṇa it is not compulsory to marry. Kṣatriyas may marry more than one wife. They can take. So all girls must be married. That is... They must...They must have one husband, even the husband has got fifty wives. Then the problem of girls' marriage will be solved. And as soon as one girl is pregnant, she should be separated.
Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:
Prabhupāda: The leaders are rascals and the followers are rascals and they're all going to hell. Nature's law is very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid it. Nature is all-powerful. Kṛṣṇa has given: "You work in this way." She'll work. She'll work. She'll punish. As soon as there is little discrepancy—you have eaten, eaten more than is necessary-indigestion. "Indigestion, starve." This is nature's law. Nature will act. But you have to (indistinct) them with knowledge that "You don't do this. Otherwise you will be under the control of nature life after life. Simply miseries." Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others' distress. This is Vaiṣṇava.
Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:
Prabhupāda: ...said, suppose you have not done your responsibility properly, so then you have become sinful. Hm? Is it not? So Kṛṣṇa gives assurance that "You surrender to Me, and I give you protection from all sins." So even you think that "By giving up my all other responsibilities I am taking shelter of You. Then I will be punishable for my sinful act," so Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Then where is my responsibility? I become free immediately, provided I surrender to Kṛṣṇa without any reservations. Then. Then it is. Otherwise not.
Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is going on. They do not understand that this world is meant for suffering. We have discussed little in that topic with Śyāmasundara. Just like they invented the communistic idea. Does it mean the communists are not suffering? They are suffering more. They have no liberty. They have lost their liberty, the whole people. They are so much pressed by the government that there is no liberty at all. The younger generation, they cannot go out, so much suffering. I may live even in a big house, but if you say, "You cannot go out. Then you'll be punished," that idea will be suffering—"Oh, I cannot go out."
Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:
Dhanañjaya: So all these cheaters are māyā's agents.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they are agent of Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. But because you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, therefore they are cheating you. They are not your servant. Mama māyā: "My servant." Just like the police. Police is punishing you not on their own account. Because you are disobedient, you must be punished. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14).
Brahmānanda: The moment we stop cheating Kṛṣṇa, then we can...
Prabhupāda: Then, immediately, he becomes friend. This is the way, going on. The whole arrangement is like that. So long we shall not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, we have to suffer so many ways, different species of life, different condition, different planets. This is going on. (break) ...indirectly forcing that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise you'll be punished." Why police is so unkind? Because the indirect way is that "You become lawful; otherwise you'll continue to be suffering by us." So intelligent person thinks of it, and he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. And those who are rascals, fools, bewildered, they think, "We shall adjust it by manufacturing every year new type of motorcars." Although there is accident... The increase of motorcar means increasing the death rate of public. Huh? And still they'll do that. It is becoming problem in cities in Europe and America. All roads and streets are always congested. They cannot drive even at ten miles speed. Still, they are increasing. Still, they are increasing motorcar.
Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.
Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:
Prabhupāda: External, but you are animal. (laughs) You cannot understand. You see. Mūḍha. "External." Why external? You violate the laws of nature; immediately you'll be punished. Why external? You infect some disease; you'll be immediately punished. Why external? It is the law of nature. You must have to follow; otherwise you'll be punished. You have got experience. If you touch fire... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. If you touch fire, then it must burn. Why? Can you restrict the fire? Similarly, laws of nature is so strict, as soon as you violate... Laws of nature means God's nature.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Bhārgava: ...prison. And then when he gets out of prison he has the memory of his punishment, and that acts as a deterrent to him committing the crime again. But if someone is sinful... (break)
Prabhupāda: It is tamo-guṇa. He knows everything; still, he is forced to act criminally. That is tamo-guṇa. Everyone knows that he will be punished. He has seen that criminal is punished. Still, he acts criminally. That is called ignorance. Heart is unclean. Therefore our first process is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), to cleanse the heart.
Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: That is later on. First of all you do not know; we know. That is the difference. If somebody knows there is government, he is better than the outlaws who don't, doesn't care for the government. He is better position, a good citizen. Who accepts that there is government is good citizen. And one who doesn't care for the government, does whimsically everything, he becomes criminal. And then he is punished. That is the difference.
Brahmānanda: So if we all became devotees there would be no punishment.
Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: ...for the kṣatriya? Kṣatriya means one who gives protection from being hurt, kṣat. Kṣat means hurting. So suppose if I unnecessarily hurt you, then it is the duty of the government to give you protection. So unless I am also punished by violence, I cannot..., He cannot give you protection. So this is also necessary. Therefore in the society there must be kṣatriya. The brāhmaṇas should be learned; they should give instruction, advice. The kṣatriyas should give protection; the vaiśyas should produce, economic development; and rest, they should assist-śūdras, that's all. This is the program of Aryan society.
Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's way. Give them again chance to develop. From trees they become flies. That is the beginning of movement. Then from flies to birds, birds to beast, and beast to animal, er, human being. This is great chastisement. You cannot move even. Suffer torrents of rain, cyclone, scorching heat, pinching cold. Stand up for hundreds and thousands of years. Then, when the punishment is finished, then he becomes moving. If there is scorching heat he can move to some shelter. But he cannot move. They do not study all this science, why there are so many varieties of life, of different grades. Wherefrom they are coming?
Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:
Prahupada: That is going on. Just like Mother Yaśodā. She would chastise Kṛṣṇa. But you will never find Nanda Mahārāja is ever chastising. Rather, when Kṛṣṇa was chastised, Nanda Mahārāja would come back and take Him on the lap: "All right, I shall punish Your mother," and call him (her?), chastise. And then Kṛṣṇa will stop His mouth: "No, no. Don't do this." It is natural that when the child is in the lower stage, minor stage, the mother takes more care. That is natural. (break) Such a big planet, sun, six months rotating on the northern side of the equator, six months on the southern side. It is never changed. Why?
Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore mūḍha, they have been described. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). They are being kicked, punished; still, he says, "Oh, I don't care for anybody." I kick on your face. "Yes, I don't care for you." Like that. This is their argument.
Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Still can be changed by bhakti. Just like one man is condemned to death. Nobody can change it, but the king can change it. Only by the mercy of king he can be saved, not otherwise. Even the judge who has punished him, he cannot do it. Whatever is ordered, there is order. He cannot change it. Similarly, if you become devotee, then your destiny can be changed. A devotee never is anxious to change his destiny.
Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:
Prabhupāda: Hell is the place for your punishment.
Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:
Prabhupāda: Just see. To punish him? (pause) Just see, so much loads of books. He's feeling unhappy, and what he is learning? To become hippie. That's all.
Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. The child is so dependent on the mother, if the mother mistreats the opportunity, she also is punished.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: But if the child would cause the mother so much anxiety...
Prabhupāda: Don't talk like foolish. Don't talk of that. It is waste of time. If it is the property of the mother, mother can kill at any time. Why at a certain point if the mother kills child she is hanged? If the mother has got the liberty to kill the child, she can kill at any time.
Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your, this punishment condition is also God's creation, external energy. You cannot live for a second without God. But one who knows, he is blessed, and who does not know, he is condemned. But you know or not know, you are always with God. That is your position.
Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: That was also. If Mahārāja Bhārata... It was punishment and reward also. Mahārāja Bhārata, although he became a deer, he remembered that he was such and such exalted position but "I became attached to the deer and I forgot my regular duties." Mahārāja Bhārata, he became so much attached to the deer, he forgot his regular duties. Therefore he was punished. But he remembered that "I was in such exalted position. On account of my attachment to the deer I have fallen." Therefore he rectified himself so that in his next life he became completely silent so that "I may not fall down," Jada Bhārata. This association, material association, is so dangerous, so he remained just like a dull madman. That's all. He was talking with nobody; he was not mixing with anybody. Whatever one would do, he did not protest, but his knowledge was full.
Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You cannot find out fault with him. As like in the court, if you find out some fault with the judge, you will be punished immediately—"Contempt of court. You cannot do that." It will be punished, because while he is on the seat of the judge, if somebody finds out fault, then his position will be lower. That is not good. I think the judgment is right. Three persons—the president, prime minister, and the speaker—cannot be, what is called?
Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: It is force, that "You must be beaten with shoes." That is not līlā. Nobody says, "Let me play this līlā and you beat me with shoes." (laughter) No sane man will do that. When a man is punished, that is by force, superior force. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This is force, prakṛti, nature's. You cannot say that "I don't care for the prakṛti." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ.
Morning Walk -- December 7, 1975, Vrndavana:
Aksayānanda: And he is also very intelligent. He's not just doing it out of sentiment. Very nice man. Older man.
Prabhupāda: If a sannyāsī is not offered respect, the punishment is that he should fast one day. That is śāstric injunction.
Gunarnava: What is the punishment if one doesn't fast?
Prabhupāda: You must go to hell. (laughter) (break)
Aksayānanda: ...also come two or three times before over the months, so I know he is serious.
Prabhupāda: Let him come.
Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished. By the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.
Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:
Kīrtanānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, does one have to give protection to their devotee if they break the law? Just like if you have a child, and he murders someone, isn't he supposed to be punished? So if someone goes against the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even if you are a devotee, shouldn't Śiva concur?
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Rāmacandra approached Lord Śiva to kill Rāvaṇa, and he gave permission, although Rāvaṇa was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Śiva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Śiva gives permission to Lord Rāmacandra, "Yes, You can kill Rāvaṇa," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?
| Page Title: | Punishment (Conv. 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 11 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=151, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 151 |