Prabhupāda: You have got experience, some of you, that if you speak something about God, they become very angry: "What nonsense, God? I am God. Everyone is God. What special qualification of God?" This is demonic principle. So there is always... Not now, there is always fighting between the gods and the demons. So when these demons grew up with full-fledged strength by the grace of the Lord, so they fought with the demigods in other planets. And sometimes the demons became victorious, sometimes the gods became victorious. So when the gods became victorious, Hiraṇyakaśipu, his wife was arrested. At that time, his wife was pregnant, and the demigods arresting the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu were dragging her to take her into their, I mean to say, planet. In the meantime, Nārada Muni met. Nārada Muni asked them, "What you are doing? This innocent woman you are dragging?" They replied that, "The woman is innocent, I know," the head of the demigods, Indra, "but she is pregnant, and the child is born of the demon. So we shall keep this woman under our custody, and as soon as the child is born we shall kill him. That is our program. We are not going to do any harm to the woman."
Pregnant (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Effect, of course, it requires both the things. One must be very eager to take it. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and there are so many others. They are also reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit was very serious. So both things should be serious. Just like the example: the husband and wife must be potent; then there is pregnancy. Otherwise there is no pregnancy. So sewing the seed, the field also must be fertile or receptive, then the seed will fructify. It is reciprocal.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is whole theory of the atheist class men. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aparaspara... Aparaspara... Just like one man and woman unites all of a sudden and there is pregnancy. This is chance.
Pradyumna: By sex desire alone the world is created by...
Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam: "Except sex desire, where is the other cause of creation?" That is atheistic theory. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. So all of a sudden two opposite parties become sexually inclined, and by chance there is pregnancy and there is production. This is their theory. There is no plan. It is like this. Because they are creating like that, there is no plan. Then why there is...? Therefore they say, "It is legalized prostitution, marriage. There is no need of marriage."
Prabhupāda: This is... This is their atheistic theory. But our Vedic civilization is putrārthe kriyate bhārya putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. Prayojanam. Piṇḍa, piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa by the son, is necessity, puṇyena narakāt trāyate, because the son delivers the forefathers from the hellish condition of life. There are so many plans, and they say, "Oh, there is no plan." Ignorance. We say that there is necessity of a putra, or a son. Therefore to have a son, a wife is necessary. Therefore wife is accepted. This is a plan. But they say that it is... "Whenever you feel, just like cats and dogs, sexually inclined, have sex." That's all. Where is plan? This is difference between atheist and theist. They have no plan. Sex desire is necessity of the body we have, and all of a sudden there is pregnancy. Avoid. Try to avoid pregnancy by contraceptive. Or if it takes place by chance, that's all right. There is no question of plan. These rubbish theories are going on and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? Eraṇḍāpi dhūmyate(?). When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this. "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa had so many girlfriends. There are so many nice descriptions of embracing, kissing, but there is no pregnancy or abortion. There is no description of such things. And that is spiritual world. The attraction for young boy, young girl is there also. They are also enjoying their company. Everything is there. But there is no such thing as pregnancy and abortion. Here people do not want that, pregnancy and abortion. But they are forced to do it because there are so many inebrieties here. That thing is minus in the spiritual world. They are also attracted by the bodily features of the women. There is attraction, but they are more attracted by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore this bodily attraction of woman does not affect them. Just like if you have got better attraction, you don't care for the lower attraction. The attractions are there. The body of the woman is very beautiful. But men are not so much attracted with the body of the woman. They are more attracted to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. These are described in the Bhāgavata. Here also, practically we see, those who are attracted by the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they are not very much attracted with the bodily features of the women. Is it not?
David Lawrence: You feel that strongly.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is real life. Real life means you have to minimize your bodily activities so that you can save time and devote for spiritual understanding. That is real life. And the present civilization based on bodily concept of life is animal life. It is not civilized life. Civilized life means athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is advanced so much so that he inquires about the spirit soul. But there is no such inquiry. Like the cats and dogs, they cannot inquire what is spirit soul. So Vedic life means to become free as much as possible from the bodily disturbances. Therefore, the first education is to become brahmacārī, celibacy. You see? Now, at the present moment, they are trying to make the abortion as law. But these rascals cannot check their sex life. You see? Their philosophy is that you shall go on with sex life unrestrictedly and when there is pregnancy, kill the child.
Prabhupāda: It has been seen in Calcutta also, in dust bin found out some child, dust bin.
David Lawrence: Terrible. Some are in such an advanced state of pregnancy that clearly life is a strong possibility.
Prabhupāda: Not advanced stage, life begins from the very beginning of sex. The living entity is very small. By nature's law, according to his karma, he's sent to the father's semina and that is injected and immediately the two secretions emulsify, the man's and the woman's, and it forms a body just like a pea. That is the formation of body. Now that pea-like form develops gradually. Then first manifestation is the nine holes. Everything is there in the Vedic literature. Nine holes, they have got nine holes. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. In this way gradually the senses develop and by the time seven months, everything is complete and the living entity's consciousness come back. Prior to the formation of the body, the living entity remains unconscious just like in chloroform, anaesthetic. Then he dreams and then gradually consciousness... At that time he becomes very much upset to come out, come out. Then nature gives him "khut!" He comes out. That's all. This is the process of birth.
Karandhara: They might say that by "nature" they mean it happens naturally. What's happening naturally, they mean it doesn't require anyone...
Prabhupāda: No, what things are happening naturally? Your father begets you, therefore you talk. Naturally you have not come. If your father would not begotten you through your mother, how did you come? Naturally your mother does not become pregnant. What things happening naturally?
Karandhara: No. By the father impregnating the mother, that is natural, naturally.
Prabhupāda: Why naturally? If father does not pregna... There are so many now "bachelor-daddies." Nothing can be took natural. Nature is an instrument.
Karandhara: Well, they say that some say that nothing was actually ever created, so there is no need for...
Prabhupāda: Everything is created. That is rascaldom. He is speaking. He is created by his father, the rascal who is talking like that. You were created by your father.
Karandhara: No, but essentially, he says, they are not created.
Prabhupāda: Why not created? I see that your mother became pregnant and you were created and you are... Why you say... Your natural... Your mother did not become naturally pregnant. Everything is created. This table is created. You cannot say that it has come naturally.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (3): But Swamiji, sexual intercourse after marriage is against law of Manu?
Prabhupāda: No, that is also... There is law. You cannot have sexual intercourse with wife as you like, no. That is also illicit sex. Then... When the woman is in menstrual period, after five days, you can have once. As soon as she is pregnant, no more sexual intercourse. This is human being. Not that like animal. Animals also, they have got restrictions. You see? The lions, they have sexual intercourse once in life. Once in life. Brahmacārī. You see? So as soon as you violate the laws, then you are animal. Because law is meant for man. Just like "Keep to the right" and "left" in the road. It is meant for human being, not for the dogs. Dog, if he keeps right or left, it is not under law. But if you keep your car instead of left to the right, then you are criminal. (pause) So which way we have to go?... Human life begins when he understands what is dharma. That is human life, beginning. Aushikha (?) (Hindi) Jaiye aur Hindu religion hai, Muslim religion hai, Christian religion hai, Buddhist religion hai, Jewish religion hai. The religion must be there. But when we give up this religious process, then there is no more human life; it is animal life. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Well, this hating... You hate for something, he hates for something else. That is going on.
Dr. Patel: But this dating... That is why I to... I mean, I did not see my wife before I married her. And we were very happy all the life. (break)
Prabhupāda: That is not happening nowadays. Now, when... One girl is visited many times, and she becomes pregnant. Then marriage takes place.
Dr. Patel: Then only...
Guest (1): By force you marry.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is no marriage.
Indian man (5): After pregnancy, eight or nine months, something like that.
Prabhupāda: That is ṣaḍ-lakṣana. That is another thing. Before sex, there is a ceremony. That is called garbhādhāna. (break)
Śrīdhara: "...ceremony takes place after the birth of the child. The family members take baths, cleanse themselves, and decorate themselves with ornaments and garlands. Then they come before the child and the astrologer to hear the future life of the child. Nanda Mahārāja and other members of the family dressed and sat down in front of the birthplace. All the brāhmaṇas who were assembled there on this occasion chanted auspicious mantras." (break)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Mahārāja. This is kṣatriya king. Who has got so many cows to distribute? They cannot maintain even one cow. He is handed it over to the slaughterhouse. This is our position.
Prabhupāda: There cannot be. How a man and woman can be equal? The woman has to give birth, she has to become pregnant. Why the man cannot be pregnant. Why? Why this inequality? To take care of the child, to become pregnant, so much responsibility, the man does not take, especially in this country. He impregnates one girl, and he goes away. And all the responsibility is for the girl. Therefore he (she) wants to get rid of it. He (She) takes the course of abortion. Kill it. This is the psychology. Where is equality? You put her into inconvenient position, and she commits another sin. She is obliged. Where is equality? And you go away. So this rascaldom philosophy may go on. We have got answer for all the rascals. They are all rascals.
Robert Gouiran: ...materialization. The process of materialization.
Prabhupāda: No, now, first of all, let us understand what is matter and what is spirit. Spirit is also energy, and matter is also energy. The matter, when it comes in contact with the spiritual energy, then it grows. Otherwise, it does not grow. Therefore the growing process depends on the spirit. Take this example, my body, your body. The spirit soul when it is in the womb of the mother, then it grows. The abdomen of the mother grows out. But if the spirit soul is not there, then it will not grow. There are many sex intercourse, but if the spirit soul is not there, the sex intercourse will not turn into pregnancy. Do you realize this?
Robert Gouiran: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she'll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, "Don't get child before twenty years." What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they're able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we have... We can guide them all, all these rascals. From śāstra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.
Prabhupāda: We don't find any illicit sex. They were having more than one wife. So there was no question of illicit sex. If one wife is pregnant, then the man, he goes to another wife. Man has got that tendency. So as soon as she is pregnant, she is kept separate. Even we have seen. When the girl is pregnant, she goes to her mother's care, does not live with the husband. What is that?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Off in the distance.
Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat.
Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?
Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.
Prabhupāda: That is going on everywhere.
Devotee: And I saw, "What is the point? They are not even loving God." They were teaching loving God, but I could not see it.
Prabhupāda: He said that Vivekananda was doing that. You said? Just tell him.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So this we can experience, that as soon as the spirit is entered into the womb of the mother, they develops skin and the child develops body. So this is very practical, that first of all, not that simply by sexual intercourse a child is born. Then every the time sexual intercourse would have caused pregnancy. No. Unless the spirit soul is there, there is no question of developing body. Therefore it is natural that the spirit soul creates this flesh and bone and other things and develops into body. There is no difficulty to understand.
Devotee: So even if you are married sex life can be material too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also regulated. When the wife is menstrual period, so after five days you can have sex life and as soon as she is pregnant, no more sex life. So, sex life is meant for progeny, not for sense pleasure. Even the animals, dogs, cats, they have a period for sex life and as soon as the female dog is pregnant, no more sex life. In certain months of the year they have sex life, not all the year. So even the dogs they follow regulation and we human being, we do not follow. The dogs have no restriction. The female dogs are naked and they can capture anyone, anywhere, but they do not have unless there are certain period. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in spiritual life restricted regulated sex life, is essential.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is medical science.
Guest (1): Because all over the developing world there are millions of mothers who would not get any great quantities of protein while they are pregnant. In the first instance before they are pregnant, they are not nutritionally prepared for having another burden of a baby inside their body, and without that adequate preparation when they become pregnant, this is a double stress on their physiological systems. And we would like to see how the baby gets affected.
Prabhupāda: So if by chance there is baby, killing. Is that the conclusion?
Jagadīśa: Now he's working hard to put a ball in the hole.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows, "This is life." There is no other alternative. That is his ignorance. He cannot do it. Still, he is doing. You see? You know that when there was electric failure in New York? The statistics is that more women became pregnant. (laughter) But what they will do in the darkness? "Let us have sex." That's all. (laughter) (break)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Satsvarūpa: Well, culture...
Prabhupāda: What is that culture? Your culture is the same—sex. As soon as there was no light, immediately there was pregnancy. That is the statistic record.
Brahmānanda: Oh, in the blackout.
Devotee: New York blackout.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "No business. Come on. Let us enjoy sex." That's all. This is their civilization. Yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Most abominable sex life—this is civilization.
Prabhupāda: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?
Paramahaṁsa: But they have made a way so that the women also don't have to become pregnant. This contraceptive, and...
Prabhupāda: This is another foolishness. (indistinct) another... (break) This unnatural thing. (break) What is this insignia?
Śrutakīrti: That is Ford's insignia.
Prabhupāda: They are doing?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, they're changing, but they can't become pregnant. That's the only thing. They take these special hormones, and then they can grow breasts and everything just like a woman. But they can't become pregnant.
Amogha: In the newspaper there was an article about two weeks ago about a Christian church in America where they have a naked dancer come.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Amogha: They had a lady who dances, taking off her clothes, so the people will come to church. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: Life enters into the matter. Then it comes out with a particular type of body. The soul enters in the womb of the mother and the mother gives the body. The soul comes through the semina of the father, and then the mother's ovum and father's semina mix together, creates a situation for developing a body. This is the science. Without that living entity there is no question of pregnant. Simply a mixture of matter. No, that is not possible.
John Mize: Once the egg is laid, there is no chance for it to be fertilized.
Prabhupāda: No, egg is... The living entity is already there. Just like a woman is pregnant means the living entity is already there. So as soon as there is egg, the living entity is already there. It is taking time to come out. Just in the womb of the mother, the child is taking time to grow and become fit to come out.
Prabhupāda: But how to get liberation, not being pregnant?
Kāśīrāma: That's one of the programs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them be liberated, not being pregnant. The man will be pregnant equally. (laughter) Where is that liberation? Can they make any resolution, "Now, man has to become pregnant also equally."
Jayatīrtha: The scientists will begin work on that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let these rascals engage in that work, how a man can become pregnant. (laughter) "Yes, we are trying, we shall do in the future." They will say like that, yes. (break) ...there are women police. You know that? So they were guiding... I said that "If somebody captures your hand, then where is your police force?" Any young boy sixteen, seventeen years old can capture any two, three women, and he can control. And where is the police force?
Prabhupāda: Well, women can bear children, but the man cannot. Is it possible to bear children? A man can become pregnant? Is it possible?
Woman reporter: No.
Prabhupāda: Physically... Therefore there are so many things which is possible in man and which is not possible in woman, by nature. How you can say that they are of the same nature?
Woman reporter: I'm not saying they're the same. What can...
Prabhupāda: Then if you not saying that, then they are different in their physiological condition. So now this physiological condition, you may calculate, "This is better, this is better." That is your calculation. Our calculation is the man and woman are different in their physiological condition.
Prabhupāda: I am not trying. You are already not equal with the man because in so many respects, your functions are different and man's functions are different. Why do you say artificially they are equal? As I told you that the husband and wife—the wife has to become pregnant, not the husband. How you can change this, both the husband and wife will be pregnant? Is it possible? Is it possible?
Woman reporter: No, it is not.
Prabhupāda: Then by nature one has to function differently from the other.
Woman reporter: But why does this mean...?
Prabhupāda: So how you can change?
Woman reporter: Why does this mean that women have to be subordinate?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand that you depend. The... After man and woman unite, there is children, and the man goes away, and you are embarrassed. The woman is embarrassed. Why? Why this is, is made possible? A man and woman unites, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the husband goes away. Then the poor woman is embarrassed with the child. She has to beg from the government. So do you think it is very nice thing? The Vedic idea is that woman should be married to a man and the man should take charge of the woman and the children independently so that they do not become a burden to the government or to the public.
Woman reporter: Is it true for all woman and all men?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the nature. You take even in the dogs. The dogs they also take care of their children. The tigers, they take care of the children. So in the human society, if the woman is made pregnant and the man goes away and she is embarrassed, she has to beg from the government, that is not a very good situation.
Woman reporter: What about women who do not have children?
Prabhupāda: Well, that is also another unnatural thing. Sometimes they use contraceptives. They kill children, abortion. That is also not very good. These are all sinful activities. These are sinful activities, to kill child in the womb. And take shelter of abortion. These are all sinful activities. One has to suffer for that.
Prabhupāda: Problem is already there and if they think it is not problem, then what can be said? By nature's way, if the husband takes care of the wife and children, this problem is solved immediately. But the man takes advantage. He goes away after making the woman pregnant. And the woman is embarrassed and the government is embarrassed.
Prabhupāda: ...still avoid that position. (laughter) Where is the independence? Where is the independence of woman that she has to carry the weight of the pregnancy and the man is free? What is the answer to this question? Hmm? Answer Viśakha.
Viśakha: A woman is trapped by her body. She has no choice. By her body she must.
Prabhupāda: So she is already dependent on nature's law that man is free from becoming pregnant and the woman has to take the burden. Then where is the independence, equal right? Equal right means sometimes man may become pregnant, sometimes woman may become pregnant, but why only woman should become pregnant and the man goes away and she has to take care of the children, beg from government or this and that? Is that independence? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: For them, the independence has become contraception. "I don't have to have the child," they say.
Prabhupāda: That means you commit another sinful activity. Then you become dependent on nature. You'll be punished. The punishment goes to you.
Harikeśa: Is that in the Vedas also?
Prabhupāda: No, I am talking of the psychology. I have given the name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. When I was student, he said. So he is a great authority in psychology. So I have given the date. But they say, "Now they have improved." Then what can be said? But they could not improve this position: they have become pregnant. For the last hundred and thousands and millions of years, in the history we hear that woman is pregnant. We never heard the man is pregnant. So where is the progress? If you are actually making progress, so millions of years ago, the history we hear... Even Rāmacandra, millions of years, Lord Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. If you take history, now where is the improvement? Millions of years ago, Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. The law of woman's becoming pregnant, millions of years was there. And what improvement have they made now? They say, "We have made improvement." What is that improvement? Millions of years ago, Sītā, she became pregnant, and Rāmacandra did not become pregnant. Man did not. So what is the improvement at the present moment? Is there any instance, a man is now becoming pregnant. And not the woman? So where is the improvement?
Jagadīśa: Even all species of life it is the same.
Brahmānanda: In all other species...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even in animals, the female animal becomes pregnant. That is the law. So where is independence? Let them pass resolution that "Henceforward, man will have to become pregnant." Is it possible?
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the whole civilization, American western civilization, is now bewildered by this theory of woman's liberation.
Prabhupāda: But how they will be liberated on this point? First of all let me know.
Brahmānanda: In other words, that, what is considered scientific fact, that changes according to the social ideas that are prevalent in a particular time.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Social ideas, there is no standard social idea. That is another thing. You can change in any way. But so far physiological conditions, that has not changed. The feature of the woman's body has not changed. So how the brain will change? The bodily feature of woman as it was in 1920, it is still going on. Outwardly we see. So how inwardly it is changed? In 1920 the woman was becoming pregnant; there is no change now that man is pregnant. So how you say there is change?
Brahmānanda: I don't know, but she said that they have spoken to scientists and that scientists say that the woman's brain... Now a scientist says a woman's brain and a man's brain is not different.
Prabhupāda: So this pregnancy is also pressing. The man has pressed to become pregnant? This is man's pressure or nature's?
Brahmānanda: Of course, they will try to stop that. Through contraceptive methods and abortion, they will try to stop having children.
Prabhupāda: But that is not stopping. That is artificially taking some other measures. That is not stopping.
Prabhupāda: That is bad experience. But the ideal is different. Ideal is that man must be first-class and he must be responsible to take care of the woman, and she should be given all protection, all necessities. That is the duty of man. Just like father takes the charge of his daughter, similarly, husband should take charge of the woman. And similarly, elderly sons also took charge of the woman. The father never exploits the daughter. He gives all protection. That is the duty of the husband also. When she is grown up, she cannot remain under the protection of father. She is given, therefore, to a suitable boy to take charge. But the charge is the same, to give protection, all comforts. And because there is no first-class man to take charge of the woman, they are declaring independence. All the men are doing that. They keep girlfriend, make her pregnant, and go away, goes away.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because birth pain is very severe.
Brahmānanda: They vow never to have sex again at that time. But...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That śloka I was... Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). To... The sex life and the aftereffects are full of miserable condition, so once they have sex life, they become, woman becomes pregnant, and the painful conditions are passed. But still, he or she is not satisfied, again takes the same thing, entailed by so many sufferings. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpana. Because he has no knowledge, he commits means the same thing again.
Jagadīśa: Chewing the chewed.
Prabhupāda: Both of them suffer. But irresponsible father avoids, then the both suffering comes on the woman. She suffers the pain, birth pain, and suffers to raise the children. And the man goes away. How they are going to solve this problem? What is their answer? They become dependent on the man during sex life and purchases the pain, birth pain, and accuses the husband. And then, when the child is born she has to take care. The father may go away. The mother cannot give up the care of the children. Out of affection, she is carrying two child. So these are the aftereffects. So can the woman avoid sex, which is entailed with so much sufferings? She submits. Where is the independent woman? Therefore, if one is spiritually advanced, then she becomes.
Prabhupāda: All right, trying. But you women, you cannot see that this so-called equal right means cheating the woman. Now I say more clearly that a woman and man meets. Now they become lover. Then they have sex, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the man goes away. The simple woman, she has to take charge of the child and beg from government alms, "Please give me money." This is your independence. Do you admit this is independence, that the man makes the woman pregnant and he goes away without any responsibility, and the woman cannot give up the child, she maintains, begging from the government or she tries to kill the child? Do you think it is very good independence? What is your answer?
Woman: To... Whether or not it is good to kill a child? Is that the question?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are killing now, abortion.
Prabhupāda: For the woman.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: This is liberation. She has an affair with a man, and she gets pregnant. The man leaves. Then she has to beg alms from the government to support the child...
Prabhupāda: Or kill.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Or she kills the child. So is that good or bad?
Woman: Well, she has made the choice to have...
Prabhupāda: That means, that is 34 ounce. You have made your choice to kill your own child. Is that very good choice?
Sandy Nixon: It's the worst crime you could commit.
Jayatīrtha: Her brain is getting larger. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Do you think it is very good business?
Woman: I think this is a very complicated question.
Prabhupāda: The Satyabhāmā's father, he made a bet that "I have got these bulls, one dozen bull, very strong. And the boy who will be able to break the horns of these bulls, I will offer my daughter to him." So whole world will fail. You see, it is not so easy job. But Kṛṣṇa did it. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not that husband, that he would pick out some cheap girl and make her pregnant and go away. (laughter)
Nityānanda: Women's liberation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but how the nature's law is strong. Woman has to become pregnant, not the man. Why equal right? Let the man become pregnant once. Woman became pregnant once. The right. Where is that law? So why equal right? Brahmānanda was saying one day they'll not mix with man.
Prabhupāda: That is time for punishment. They should build up their character, śamaḥ, damaḥ, fully controlled. When they like, they become gṛhasthas. Otherwise they are controlled. That is brāhmaṇa. For brāhmaṇa it is not compulsory to marry. Kṣatriyas may marry more than one wife. They can take. So all girls must be married. That is... They must...They must have one husband, even the husband has got fifty wives. Then the problem of girls' marriage will be solved. And as soon as one girl is pregnant, she should be separated.
Hṛdayānanda: From the husband.
Prabhupāda: At least for one and half years.
Upendra: At the moment of pregnancy? From the moment of pregnancy one and a half years?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pregnancy is understood at three months. From that month till further, sixteen months at least, she should not come to be near husband. That is eka-kadi (?). The child does not live. And they are not inclined to come unless a man induces. So the man, if he has got more than one wife, so man will not disturb her. And she will take rest for the next eighteen months. So after ten months she will give birth to the child, and for six months continually she will take care of the child. Feeding the child with breast milk, the child will be healthy. If the child can take mother's milk for six months at least continually, he'll become healthy for life.
Prabhupāda: Equal rights. Make agreement. "Once you beget; once I shall." (laughs) Make this contract. Then it is equal right. If the woman has to give birth of a child and she has to suffer all the pains thereof, then where is the equal right? Where is equal right? Nature has said, "You must suffer." The husband, the so-called husband, will give birth, er, will utilize you for sex satisfaction, and you will be pregnant, and he will go away and you will suffer the whole life to maintain the child, welfare—"Give me some money"—or this or that. Where is equal right? He is free. He has gone away. Huh? This is general experience in the Western countries.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What the women answer about this pregnancy, that the man enjoys her and he goes away?
Brahmānanda: They resent it.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you accept? Why do you agree?
Brahmānanda: Well, more and more now the women are not having sex with men anymore. They're having sex with other women.
Prabhupāda: Then the population will stop? Will the population stop anymore? Then where is the proof? Just see how foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?
Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.
Prabhupāda: That what... Gandhi said, "What is this āśrama?"
Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi... He is well known, very well known.
Prabhupāda: He is well known.
Prabhupāda: Waking tablets and so on, so on. Tranquilization tablet.
Brahmānanda: They had one tablet for pregnant mothers, and that tablet was used very much in Europe, and that tablet proved to be very harmful to the children that were born. They created terrible deformities amongst many, many children. So there was a tremendous lawsuit against the company. I think it was a German company.
Prabhupāda: What for the tablet was used?
Brahmānanda: Some vitamin for the pregnant mothers.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Thalidomide, yes?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: No, I have taken a vow not to do wrong things. That is why I am here in your company. Otherwise I would be somewhere in... That is very common in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Not only Bombay, all over the world. Now it is imported in India also, to get relief of pregnancy. This is...
Yaśomatīnandana: There is a big board in Andheri railway station. It says "For abortion and for family planning come here and get your (indistinct)." (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: The college boys are taking advantage of this.
Dr. Patel: Was he? No, no. Both were brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: He was born when his mother was widow, and she became pregnant by the priest. So she was going to kill herself. Then her father restrained her, that "Don't do it. Your... In the womb there is a big personality." So the brāhmaṇa community did not like her.
Yaśomatīnandana: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is called Śaṅkarācārya.
Indian man (2): Varṇa-saṅkara.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It may require... No, I said that "If you are equal rights, then make some arrangement: sometimes you become pregnant; sometimes he becomes pregnant. Why there is not right, equal right?"
Indian man: She was telling me when... She... I said that "Prabhupāda sometimes says these things that we feel all ashamed, you know, because..."
Devotee (2): The medicine is not always palatable for these people.
Prabhupāda: But in speaking spiritual understanding we cannot make any compromise. What to speak of in Mauritius, in Chicago I told. There was great agitation in papers.
Harikeśa: I think that was the same stewardess who came in the back and asked us, "Why the Swamiji doesn't like women?"
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say that I don't like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights—your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.
Akṣayānanda: That doesn't mean you don't like them.
Prabhupāda: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that "If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You'll be put into further sufferings as soon as you violate the rules and regulation of the jail. You'll be put to a further term of suffering. Just like they are independently trying to avoid pregnancy, and the same man who has killed his own child, or same mother, he is being killed within the womb. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Nature will not tolerate this. In India still these things are not happening because they are not so advanced to use all these contraceptive method. But in Europe, America, it has become a common affair to kill the child within the womb.
Jayapatāka: These three cows, we've been doing..., sent to the hospital two, three times. They've given all type of medicine, everything, but they just won't get pregnant. This one, two, three.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He knew it when he gave us these cows. He knew that.
Jayapatāka: I was going to go to Hyderabad, but instead we started our building, so I sent Pūrna-prajña from Calcutta, my man. I sent two farmers. They called up and said, "They're giving bad cows. Don't take the cows." And then Haribhai Paduka got on the phone and said, "Oh, they are insulting me. They're saying I'm giving bad cows, this, that. I am going to..." He gave some complaint. So someone said, "All right. Whatever you give, it's all right." Then he gave these.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One good one and three useless ones.
Prabhupāda: So why did you accept it?
Jayapatāka: I was in Māyāpur. I told them, "Don't accept bad." They called up, said, "These are no good. We won't accept." Then from Calcutta someone said, "You accept."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are the two oxen.
Prabhupāda: Whenever somebody wants to give, you don't accept immediately. Tell them first of all, "Let us see."
Prabhupāda: Anya, anya means anyathā. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyathā. Anyābhilāṣa. That is anyābhilāṣa. Anya means other, abhilāṣa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer. That... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, so you desire only how to serve Him. Why you are desiring otherwise? They will suffer. We are desiring, "I shall become God," "I shall become one with God," "I shall become this, I shall become..." So many hundreds and thousands. So that you have to stop. Because you are servant, you should desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural... Eh? Just like in your country the women, they are thinking of equal rights. Eh? And how you can equal rights? You have to become pregnant. So you become pregnant and take care of the child; that is your duty. In India still, you'll find they are happy. And now they are, "No, we shall be equal with the men." And how you'll stop your pregnancy? And that they do not think. So they're thinking that "We shall not be pregnant, and if we become pregnant we shall kill, and we shall have equal rights with the men." This is going on.
Madhudviṣa: They say they may become pregnant and have children, but the men should take care of the children, equally.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why you should take? You are meant for taking... The child does not go to the father for being taken care. It goes to the mother. Even animals. There are so many chicken, hens, they go after the mother.
Prabhupāda: You can do that. You can do that. People will read it, Bhagavad-gītā grammar. On the Bhagavad-gītā teach them grammar. Just like Jīva Gosvāmī compiled Hari-nāmāmṛta-vyākaraṇa, similarly, you write. You have got both the knowledge, Sanskrit, and through English, Bhagavad-gītā grammar. People will take it. I have no time; otherwise I have done it. Simply nominative case, objective case, śabda-rūpa. Jayapatākā's plan is prepared or not?
Saurabha: We are going to do that today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) That is taught by the mother.
Prabhupāda: They are killing their children. In the Western countries the mothers are killing children, advising girls, daughters, "Oh, you are pregnant? Kill." (Hindi) (end)
Prabhupāda: So this movement should be pushed very vigorously. And so far, we have become successful. And enemies will be always, as soon as there is something good. That is the way of material world. Even Kṛṣṇa had enemies, what to speak of us. Eh? So many enemies, but He was powerful; He killed all them. Nobody could kill Him, but there was attempt to kill Him from the very beginning of His birth. He had so many enemies. As soon as Kaṁsa heard that his sister is now newly married, but as soon as there was some foretelling, "Ah, you are taking care of your sister so nicely. The eighth child of this sister will kill you." "Oh, where is your child? Where is pregnancy?" Nothing. He became angry. "So why wait for eighth child? Kill my sister." Long, long before taking birth of Kṛṣṇa, the mother was to be killed. This is the position of this material world. So he became so bad that "My sister..." He did not consider that "She is my sister, and she is just newly married. Where is pregnancy? Where is child? And that is the eighth child, and what will happen after that?" No consideration. Immediately, "Kill him, kill her." This is the position. So we are instructing: no intoxication. So those who are flourishing by selling cigarettes and wine and liquor, they do not... "Immediately kill him." Oh, yes, in this way. "If they, the movement goes and becomes very strong, then our business will be lost. Kill him." So naturally they will be enemies. The same thing, the Kaṁsa saw that "This my sister, now she is married. So although it will take some long time, but here is the cause." So they are thinking like that. No meat-eating, then all slaughterhouses will be closed: "They're enemy." Although there is no such symptom that slaughterhouse is going to be closed, but they'll think like that. They'll think like that, the same way. There is no ex... (break) ...pregnancy, first, second, third, then eighth, and the child will go, take birth and... They are thinking like that.
Prabhupāda: That is the danger. But if they at once go to rāsa-līlā, because they are not trained up neither they are liberated, they'll think this rāsa-līlā is just like our young boys, young girls mix together, have sex like that. So it is supported our.... "Why should we restrict to no illicit sex, no this, no rules and regulations? We shall do all nonsense." That's all. And become a gopī. It is very good to aspire to become high-court judge, but how you can become high-court judge without qualification? That they are not thinking. They have no qualification, they have illicit sex, pregnant, going to abortion, and they're high-court judge.
Prabhupāda: What they will think of at the death, why you are conjecturing now? Their habits are rascal, they're making pregnant, illicit sex, what they will think? Anyway, if we give indulgence to these people, then this preaching work will be hampered.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're not going to do that.
Prabhupāda: Or they should be separated. Otherwise, it will be bad example, and all restrictions will be broken.
Prabhupāda: There is no father. That I understand. But the tree is coming from the earth. So that is in anywhere. Just like the father gives the seed in the womb of the mother, and she produces the body and it comes out. The seed is coming from the father. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bījo'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The seed comes from the father, that you cannot deny. Mother, without seed, cannot be pregnant and cannot give child. That is our experience. Nature is mother, and the seed is given by the father.
Devotee (4): I was thinking earlier how a farmer can put the seed in the ground, but he cannot actually make the seed grow if it is not the will of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The situation is not favorable. That is the proof that everything is a living entity. If you put the seed... The seed is not the tree, but when you put the seed on the ground, if the situation is favorable, the particular living entity who has to take the form of that tree, he comes, and then it grows. That is the proof. Just like sex. It is not the secretion of the man and the woman. It creates a situation so that the soul may come and live there, and then there is pregnancy. It is not the matter. This is the proof.
Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes. And if the situation is not favorable, the soul cannot stay. It has to go to somewhere else. So by the order of Kṛṣṇa, he was to come to take shelter there, but this man and woman checked it, therefore it is sinful; he is to be punished. Just like one apartment is fixed up for me, and if somebody checks, does not allow me to enter, that is criminal.
Prabhupāda: As I have already explained. It is not the man and woman sex creation. The life comes from outside. The solution was there, but life comes out. The same example. The solution of man and woman is there, but life must come there. Then there will be pregnancy. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Find out this, Third Canto.
Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb."
Prabhupāda: "If I could produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, I am prepared to produce hundreds of children." What is the use of producing children like cats and dogs? Produce children like Prahlāda Mahārāja. The whole world will be benefited. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca. (break) Progeny, that is not condemned. Why it should be condemned? Let there be pregnancy, but Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, our Pradyumna's son, these, all children.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aniruddha.
Prabhupāda: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is the idea of my Guru Mahārāja, a Gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. We don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the universities, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers, I know that.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know, when the soul enters. The soul enters in the first night when pregnancy begins. Otherwise how it will grow? Life begins from that point. It grows one day, two day, three day, five day, one month, three months, like that. But the growing, growth, begins from that very point. If the life has got shelter between the two secretions of father and mother, then it grows.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
That's all. That study will be nice. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ. Just like father gives the seed, similarly, Kṛṣṇa gives the seed. The seed, when pushed into the womb of the mother and properly nourished, a rose plant comes out. This plant comes out. The seed is there. It is very easy. The father injects the seed within the womb of the mother, and the childs come out. Similarly, whatever is coming out from the earth, the seed-giving father is Kṛṣṇa, and when the seed is pushed within the womb of the mother, then the plant is coming, and everything. This nature's law is going on. Where is the necessity of understanding more than this? We understand the mother is pregnant.
Prabhupāda: This is the trap of māyā, to keep them captivated by sex attraction. All these living entities who are in this material world, beginning from the higher planetary system down to the ants and germs and flies. This is the primary enjoyment, sex. The central attraction is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The human being, the same sex desire, they decorate it in a different way. But the central point is the same. "So all right, why? It is enjoyment, why you are forbidding?" Saintly persons say, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is a pleasure of itching sensation. Itching sensation, when you itch, it is very pleasing. But bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Aftereffect is very bad, suffering. Itching, if you itch more, it aggravates, sometimes causes so many other by-products and so on, so on. That is fact. But everyone knows it, that "I may enjoy sex pleasure now; the aftereffect will be very bad." Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. But why people do it again and again? Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Those who are kṛpaṇa-kṛpaṇa means not brāhmaṇa—those who are not trained up as a brāhmaṇa, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation. They become victimized and the aftereffect is very, very bad. So either illicit or not illicit... They know it. The modern civilization, they have adopted the means of killing. First of all, they try to stop pregnancy by contraceptive method, and still if it is not stopped, then kill. And if he's still born, then again they put up in a box and go away. You know this?
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."
Prabhupāda: Anyway, by chance or by arrangement, but there is beginning, creation. Yes, they say "By chance." Their argument is that prakṛti-puruṣa. Just like young man, young woman meets by chance, and the woman becomes pregnant. So this pregnancy is by chance. That is the argument. Is it not? There was no arrangement, but by chance they met and there is pregnancy. Is not that their argument? What is that chance argument?
Nava-yauvana: There is no controller.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no controller. By chance, they meet. There is no controller that brought them together. By chance they came.
Prabhupāda: By accident. Accidentally they met and there is pregnancy and there is a child, production, creation. That is their idea. Or what is other argument? So far I know the atheistic, what is called that philosophy? Now I forget it. What is the philosophy of Devahūti-putra?
Harikeśa: Sāṅkhya? Atheistic sāṅkhya.
Prabhupāda: Sāṅkhya, yes, atheistic sāṅkhya. This is the atheistic sāṅkhya. In Bhagavad-gītā there is, kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Find out this. In the Sixteenth Chapter, I think. Jagad āhur anīśvaram, kim anyat kāma-haitukam (BG 16.8). What is that verse?
Harikeśa: Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te.
Prabhupāda: Ah, asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram, kim anyat kāma-haitukam.
Prabhupāda: Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Unless one diverts attention to Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not possible. One must have some business, engagement. Just like in New York as soon as there was electric failure for four hours, so many women became pregnant. Because he has no business in the darkness. But if he was trained up to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, one could utilize the time for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they have not such training. Nobody has such training. So how they will utilize the time? Come on, let us have... Although he knows...
Indian devotee: Especially Prabhupāda, when there is a famine, where there is no more food... They had big famine...
Prabhupāda: Food, that is punishment. It is not the... Famine is punishment from the side of nature. She'll not supply to the rākṣasas. That is a punishment. Otherwise, there is no question of population. You may have as many... Just like the birds and beasts. They do not care for... They have got enough food. But they do not violate the laws of the nature.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife.
Girirāja: The others are envious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're ordinary men. Man's business is to become envious. An ordinary third-class men, there is always envy. Not only first class, but third class. And what to speak of Vaiṣṇava and paramahaṁsa. Third-class men. And the government is capturing them and giving sterilization because there is record—so many abortions in the American Hospital. The bābājīs are making pregnant the widows, and they are going for abortion. There are many cases, similar, and there is American Hospital.
Girirāja: In Vṛndāvana?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not all. But wherefrom they are becoming pregnant?
Hari-śauri: What is the need for any bābājī to get sterilized, anyway?
Prabhupāda: Not to get... Sterilization, they are being forced. The government understand that who is making them pregnant, these ugly widows. They are not coming from Delhi, government servant. (laughter) Bring them, paramahaṁsas. When I was coming, so many paramahaṁsa, they advised me, "Sir, why you are going to foreign country in this old age? You are in Vṛndāvana. Just go on with your bhajana." The bābājīs gave me advice. And actually, I was seventy years old.
Prabhupāda: They make pregnant and they go away. And this poor girl, either she has to kill the child or beg from the government, "Give me welfare; otherwise..." Is that freedom? These rascal woman...
Dr. Patel: This is freedom. Actually the government recognized...
Prabhupāda: Government means a set of rascals. But practical point of view the woman wants equal right. Equal rights they enjoy, and the woman becomes pregnant, and he goes away, the boy. And she has to kill the child or beg from the government. This is her freedom. And still, equal rights. Where equal right? The boy has gone away. You also go away? No. You'll have to carry the child. To get freedom you have to kill or you have to beg. And still she thinks, "I am free."
Hari-śauri: It's a very good counterattack, that "You try to criticize us, but actually what is your position?" They have no position. That man, he was trying to criticize Kṛṣṇa as being a concoction or whatever, but we can practically see that his own religion is completely useless.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that also I have given. Kṛṣṇa might have hundreds and thousands, but where is the pregnancy and contraception?
Rāmeśvara: And abortion.
Prabhupāda: So if sex life without this botheration, it is welcome. We welcome that. Sex is enjoyment; that is all right. But here it is condemned because it is entailed with so many botherations.
Rāmeśvara: Just like Prabhupāda gave the argument... Because this one man was challenging that "This Kṛṣṇa is simply sex symbol, dancing with so many women, having so many queens," so Prabhupāda's challenge was: "But where is the pregnancy? Where is the abortion when He was dancing with the gopīs? Therefore this is not ordinary. This is beyond the material. It's spiritual." That's a big challenge they make.
Gargamuni: How can any materialist manage more than a few wives without divorce?
Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, apart from that, where is the...? If you believe Bhāgavatam, that Kṛṣṇa danced with so many thousands of gopīs and He has so many wives, so why there was pregnancy? Why the gopīs were not pregnant?
Hari-śauri: Yes. The gopīs never had any children by Kṛṣṇa. But His wives had ten each.
Prabhupāda: Ten children each. You cannot say that "He was impotent; therefore He could not make the gopīs pregnant." That you cannot say, because when He married, He begot ten children, each wife, sixteen thousand wives, and sixteen thousand, ten.
Prabhupāda: And their children, their children. The Yadu-vaṁśa was a very big family, one crore. So you cannot say that "He was impotent." And God cannot be impotent. But why they were not pregnant? Hm?
Hari-śauri: 'Cause He never had...
Prabhupāda: And why there was no abortion? Contraceptive pills? You dance. Immediately there is sex, and there are so many sinful activities after sex. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mūḍhas, how they can understand Kṛṣṇa? Tribhir guṇamāyāir bhavair. Find out this verse. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). One boy was asking, "What is God?" I chastised him like anything, that "You are born in India. You're asking what is God? How degraded you have become." First of all I answered like this. "India, where Lord Rāmacandra, appeared, Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared, Cai..., and you are Indian, you are asking what is God. How much degraded you Indians have become. Just imagine first of all."
Gargamuni: Even in the big, rich families, when they want son they perform some pūjā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no. According to Vedic system, everything is so... When the woman is pregnant there are so many ceremonies. When we were children, and I was in the middle, I saw my other, two, three brothers and sisters born. So there was some ceremony. We were eating with mother in that ceremony. That ceremony was because my mother was pregnant. Sad-bhakṣā. Sad-bhakṣā. There are ten kinds of ceremonies, before the birth and after the birth, daśa-vidha-saṁskāra. So many religious ceremonies my mother was observing, and all the expenditure my father was giving. Every month, two, three ceremonies, very nice ceremonies. We were children; we were eating. So we...
Gargamuni: A brāhmaṇa priest would come?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Brāhmaṇa priest would come. There would be pūjā. There would be nice feast. Now those things are gone.
Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."
Prabhupāda: "Your Bible, you take, but we have got our Kṛṣṇa. Dharmāviruddha-kāma. Then why you are taking contraceptive, rascal? You're killing your children. That is very good? Unrestricted sex, and when she is pregnant you kill. Are you human being or rākṣasa demon?" Challenge them like this.
Hari-śauri: I saw a Chicago newspaper. I think Jayapatākā's mother must have brought it. And there was a page, and there was two big columns advertising abortion, so many different places you could go...
Prabhupāda: Everyone knows.
Hari-śauri: ...for quick and easy abortions.
Prabhupāda: Abortion, child-killing. They are civilized?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're becoming very quickly rākṣasas.
Prabhupāda: And eating fetus. So you are rākṣasas, less then rākṣasas. And they're criticizing us.
Ādi-keśava: We are washing their brains because they have not washed the brains of their children.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is brainwashing, educating. (break) "You take this. This is our aim. Remain brahmacārī, no bother. Is that bad? You will have your sex unrestricted and make your wife pregnant and kill him and eat him. You'll be implicated with so many sinful activities, and if I say, if you are so much afraid, 'Don't have sex,' what is the wrong there? And you are thinking, 'Oh? No sex? It is so brainwashing, mind-controlling.' But what is... You want that in a sinful way. We want in a pious way."
Prabhupāda: So they are husband and wife still or not?
Rādhā-vallabha: I just heard from some women, so I can't trust it.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But she was pregnant?
Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. She was living with her parents in Colorado, I think. He is from there also.
Prabhupāda: He was polluted by the..., that Puruṣottama.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That Mr. Dalmia's guru.
Prabhupāda: No, no, not that Puruṣottama. Another, my... He says my Godbrother.
Prabhupāda: We have already seen the defect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Baboons imported for FP vaccine trials. Twenty-five baboons have been specifically imported from Africa for crucial experiments with the birth control vaccine developed three years ago at the All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. The five male and twenty female baboons which came two months ago are kept in the institute's animal house for use in trials before the vaccine could be cleared for use on women." About anti-pregnancy vaccine. "The baboons will be used in the experiments to find out if the sterility induced by the vaccine is reversible and whether the baby baboons, born after such reversal, are normal both mentally and physically."
Prabhupāda: Abnormal. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rāma-rājya, and Lord Rāma decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sītādevī was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sītā had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brāhmaṇas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.
Prabhupāda: Pakistan is spoiled now.
Prabhupāda: Kāmo 'smi, that should be. That kāma is not that, that whenever they like, have sex and then go away. That is his kāma . Once you have sex life and the woman first of all debauches like... You have to make it public that "I am going to have garbhādhāna-saṁskāra." It is not a secret thing. It is a ceremony. And then, when she is pregnant, no more sex. No more sex means so long the child is there, ten months, and unless the child is grown up at least six months, no sex. That means once you have sex and then abstain for sixteen months. You know what is that dharma? So who is such a foolish man that for once having sex and then abstaining...? Therefore those who could not abstain, they used to keep many wives.
Prabhupāda: (extremely faint) Grandson says? What is that? "Grandson says"? Supersoul? Something very extraordinary. Triumphant. "I shall be triumphant." (break) (indistinct) That is Indian style. "Kṛṣṇa we must move. Now this child is trying to turn Himself. Turn Himself." There is ceremony. This is ceremony. This is Indian way of raising up children. Sad-bhakṣaṇa.(?) When we were small children, we were all, brothers and sisters, three mo..., three years before us. So naturally, when mother was young, she became pregnant. So there were three, four ceremonies during, within the period of three years. One is called sad-bhakṣaṇa. Sad-bhakṣaṇa. The idea is... That (indistinct) he is dangerous. At the time of delivery the woman is in danger. There may be so many dangers. Therefore twice sad-bhakṣaṇa, at the period of seven months and perhaps in nine months. Whatever she likes, she should eat. So that ceremony, new cloth, very nicely dressed, taking bath, all the children, not only her children but other children also, very nice foodstuff made, and sit together, and with the children the mother will eat. And the brāhmaṇas should be given some charity. They will chant Vedic hymns. The same thing is being observed by Mother Yaśodā. That was the saṁskāra. Then utthāna.(?) Then anna-prāśana, when the child is... So much care is taken for the children. And these rascals are killing children. They are civilized? To avoid botheration. What a terrible civilization. And they are claiming to be civilized. Full day(?) pregnancy their children will be there. And man and woman... That is meant for the woman, but... And before childbirth there is propaganda to kill.
Śatadhanya: Abortion.
Prabhupāda: No, abortion when pregnancy. No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vasectomy. Vasectomy. They sterilize.
Prabhupāda: Sterilize.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, sterilization.
Prabhupāda: Simply propaganda not to beget children. "Enjoy sex life." What is this horrible civilization?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's come in India. This new prime minister, he still says, "Our goal is," I think, "twelve million sterilizations this year," and he's holding Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: A horrible position. People have lost their freedom, their culture, spiritual life. Here so much care is taken for children, and they are so opulent. They are fully opulent and spending money lavishly for the welfare of the child. And they are spending money lavishly in the hotels, in the brothels, in slaughterhouse, the liquor shop, and kill. And this is going on as civilization.
Prabhupāda: Human activity should be guided toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress. Very little... (too faint) The same shape, (too faint) they are improving to make straighter, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. That means (too faint). Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our temple?
Prabhupāda: No, no, some public...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that... And even the fact that they got married is more than most people do nowadays. They don't even get married.
Prabhupāda: There is no marriage. And in Bhāgavata says, "There will be no more marriage. Agreement."
| Page Title: | Pregnant (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 20 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=90, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 90 |