Prabhupāda: So many Ph.D.'s, they are loitering. Therefore they become Communists and this, what is called? Naxalites. Educated young boys, they have no job.
Dr. Patel: These two parts of India... (Hindi) Bengal and Kerala, they're highly educated communities. They are the, I mean, advanced Communists also, both the countries. In Gujarat there is no communism, though we are educated. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Just like assassin is aside.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And otherwise you will find Caitanya and other, so many big, big men. Rabindranath Tagore, Surendranath Bannerjee, Vivekananda, and so on, so on. (Hindi) Aurobindo was condemned to death.
Dr. Patel: His brother.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he.
Dr. Patel: No, sir, I think...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He was condemned to death, then C.R. Das saved him. Then he decided, "This politic has no value. Let me go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He dreamed at night, "Why you are bothering with these things?" This is the history. So just after getting off, the judge, immediately left.
Dr. Patel: He came back Candranagar(?), to his place. (Hindi) He never came. After svarājya he never came.
Prabhupāda: But that is all nonsense. That is...
Dr. Patel: (break) ...find fulfillment there only, God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). This is the sign of bhakti, that he has no more taste in anything material. That is bhakti. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: And artha.
Prabhupāda: Dharma cannot be. Therefore Bhāgavata said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90)—these are all cheating. These are all cheating. Yes. Dharma means you become... Generally people go to temple to get some material gains: "O God, give us our daily bread." That is the idea. Dharma is to get some material profit. And why material profit? For sense gratification. Dharma, artha, kāma. And when he's baffled in sense gratification, he wants to become one with God, mokṣa. These are all cheating. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). And Śrīdhara Swami says, atra mokṣa-vāñchām api nirastam. So long one is stuck up even up to mokṣa-vāñchā, he'll be.... He is in trouble. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Beginning from dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), you give up everything. Then you'll become purified. Even if you have got mokṣa-vāñchā, then you are in the material world. Yes.
Indian (3): Then we get parā bhakti.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says,
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
When one is actually in liberated position, mokṣa, brahma-bhūtaḥ, from that platform bhakti begins.
Dr. Patel: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. He has realized presence of Kṛṣṇa everywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu means he knows that everyone is spirit soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and this body is simply external tabernacle. That is samaḥ sarveṣu.
Dr. Patel: Not visualizing the presence of God everywhere?
Prabhupāda: Presence of God is there. When God's part and parcel... (Hindi) This is vision. (Hindi) ...ninety million miles away... (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Sir, this one question is asked by many people, that "How God can have aṁśas? He is perfect. He cannot be divided into multiple parts."
Prabhupāda: He is not divided.
Dr. Patel: That is what I say.
Prabhupāda: No, that is foolishness.
Dr. Patel: That is what I mean to say.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like... It is said, but they are foolish. They cannot understand śāstra. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). That the rascals, they do not understand. They think materially. Just like this flower. If I take little, little, little, then there is no flower. They are thinking like that. But here is the warning. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam... Even the whole flower is taken, still whole.