Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like six-thirty, sunrise, as soon as it passes from India, the six-thirty in another country. And as soon as it passes that country, six, six-thirty in another country. So six-thirty always there. Similarly six-thirty, twelve-thirty, three o'clock, all the times, twenty-four hours, always present in some, somewhere or other. Similarly Kṛṣṇa's līlā, from His birth up to the disappearance, that is always existing. Disappearance means disappearance from my eyes. Kṛṣṇa does not disappear. Just like formerly people used to think, after the sunset, the sun is dead. Huh? Who were the persons that used... Sometimes, you...? They thought like that: "Sun is dead now"? Some philosophers or the Christians, they used to think like that. Similarly sun... (break) ...no birth and death because you are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. But we disappear. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntaram-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is sober, he knows that "This man, he's not dead." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He's not dead. He has simply passed from this body to another body." Just like a mother, when the child from baby's body comes to a boy's body, the mother does not cry, "Oh, where is my son, that baby?" She knows that baby has come to this body. Similarly, a person who is in the knowledge of the transmigration of the soul, he knows that "My father, my brother, he's not dead. He has simply changed his body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, to understand the things as they are. Tathā dehāntaraṁ-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.
No death (Lectures, Other)
Expressions researched:
"never die"
|"never dies"
|"no birth and death"
|"no birth or death"
|"no birth, death"
|"no death"
|"no punar death"
|"no question of death"
|"not dying"
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Just like in Bhāgavata, you know, when Kṛṣṇa's cowherd boys, calves and cows were stolen by Brahmā, Kṛṣṇa again expanded Himself in the similar forms so that the mother of the cowherd boys, the mother of the calves, they may not feel separation. Kṛṣṇa immediately replaced. That is Kṛṣṇa.
So the blissful enjoyment with Kṛṣṇa, it is unlimited. That is called Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Rasa and amṛta. Amṛta, that is not dying, that is not possible. Want (?) some material enjoyment. It is not possible. But, because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they still persisted. Yes, this is the difference. You will feel more and more enthusiasm. In this material world, the more you'll work, you'll feel tired. And the spiritual world, the more you work, you'll feel enthused. That is called anandāmbudhi-vardhanam. That is the test. If our workers are feeling tired, then that means he's working materially. And if he's feeling enthused, more and more, that is his, he's working spiritually. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. That is the spiritual test. Rāmante yoginaḥ anante satyānande cid-ātmani (CC Madhya 9.29). That is cid-ātmani, that is spiritual, not material. So here, we are trying to enjoy material. So how we can be happy? That is not possible. Materially we cannot be happy, therefore Bhagavad-gītā gives us indication, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya grāhyam (BG 6.21). If you want happiness, happiness is our prerogative. Every individual soul, happiness. Because Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, eternal, blissful, ānanda. Ānanda, blissful. Cit, knowledge and sat, eternal. That is Kṛṣṇa. Sat-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So this is the process. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Brahmacarya is very, very essential. And that is, when one becomes detestful to sex life, that is the beginning of spiritual life. That is the beginning of spiritual life.
So immortality is not very difficult thing. Simply one has to adopt the method, process, as recommended in the śāstra, and then you can become immortal. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... (BG 4.9). Punar janma naiti—this is immortality. The Kṛṣṇa says, punar janma na. "No more punar janma." And if you have no punar janma, there is no punar death, punar vyadhaka, or punar disease. Punar means again. So if you can stop your punar janma—no more taking birth—that is perfection of life. Therefore it is recommended that the guardians, namely the guru, spiritual master, the father, the mother, the king, or the government. The whole system should be so centralized that people may be saved from this process of punar janma. That is real government, real parenthood, real guruism—how to save the disciples or the citizens or the son, subordinates. They come to your shelter. Just like these children have come to the shelter of father and mother, the disciples have come to the shelter of guru. The citizens are expecting good government. So they are subordinate, expecting protection from the superior. Therefore the whole scheme should be how to protect them from repetition of death. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. We are entangled by this process of birth, death, old age and disease, and it is the duty of the guru, duty of the father, duty of the mother, duty of the government, how to save them from this process of birth, death, old and di... That is civilization. Otherwise it is dog civilization. What is the meaning? This is civilization.
We think that "Spiritual cultivation is meant for old age. Now let us enjoy our life in this material world." That is our wrong conception of life. What do you mean by old age? Nearing death. So who can guarantee that he is not nearing death? Everyone is nearing death at every moment. Why should you wait for old age? That is manda-mater, bad intelligence. We should know that death may take place at any moment. Therefore every one of us are already old. (We) generally understand that old age means nearing death, but who can guarantee that there is no death immediately? At any moment. Therefore śāstra says tūrṇaṁ yateta anu-mṛtyu pateta yāvad, Before meeting your next death, you should endeavor so dexterously that you complete your Kṛṣṇa consciousness before your death comes. That is intelligence. Not that "I am now young man, let me enjoy. And in old age, after passing sixty years, when there will be no other engagement, at that time I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." No. Immediately, tūrṇaṁ yate.
Under the illusion of māyā, he does not also believe that what is the meaning of saving. Saving. Saving means saving oneself from this repetition, cycle of birth and death. That is real saving. But they do not know. (reading:) "The laws of material nature are so strong that none of our material possessions can save us from the cruel hands of death." Everyone knows it. And that is our real problem. Who is not afraid of death? Everyone is afraid of death. Why? Because any living entity, he is not meant for dying. He is eternal; therefore birth, death, old age and disease, these things are botheration for him. Because he is eternal, he does not take birth, na jāyate, and one who does not take birth, he has no death also, na mriyate kadācit. This is our actual position. Therefore we are afraid of death. That is our natural inclination.
So to save us from death... That is the first business of humankind. We are teaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for this purpose only. That should be the purpose of everyone. That is the sastric injunction. Those who are guardians... The government, the father, the teacher, they are guardians of the children. They should know it, how to give protection to the world's... Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta mṛtyum. So where is this philosophy all, over the world? There is no such philosophy. This is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is putting forward this philosophy, not whimsically but from authorized śāstra, Vedic literature, authorities. So that is our request. We are opening different centers all over the world for the benefit of the human society that they do not know the aim of life, they do not know that there is next life after death. These things they do not know. So we are trying to educate them that "There is next life undoubtedly, and you can prepare your next life in this life. You can go to the higher planetary system for better comfort, material comfort. You can remain here in a secure position." Secure means this material life.
We are all eternal beings. We living entities, we are... Our position is eternity. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "These living entities, they do not take birth or die at any time." Not "Nowadays they are taking more birth and population is increasing." This is all nonsense. Population is neither increasing nor decreasing. It may be... The living entities, they are transmigrating in this material world, not in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world they have got their eternal form. But in the material world, because the living entities have come to enjoy the material resources, therefore, according to the desire, the living entity is getting different forms of body, 8,400,000. But he is not dying. The body is changed. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Our death means to transmigrate to another body. Just like from childhood we are transmigrating to another body, boyhood; from boyhood we are transmigrating to another body, youth-hood; and from youth-hood we are transferred to another body, old body. Similarly, when this body will not be any more workable, then we shall transmigrate to another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are dhīra—dhīra means sober, thoughtful—they are not bewildered. But those who are not dhīra, adhīra... There are two classes of men: dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means one who is spiritually situated. He is called dhīra or brahma-bhūtaḥ, prasannātmā (BG 18.54), dhīra. And one who is not spiritually situated, materially situated, means on the platform of bodily conception of life, then he is adhīra, he is restless, from this platform to that platform, this platform to that platform. This is going on.
Everyone is going to the office early in the morning. They have got... Everyone has got duty, but that duty—asad-dharma. Body will not exist; therefore anything done on account of the body, that is asad-dharma. That is not real dharma. Real dharma is when you come to the platform of sat. That sat we have to understand, what is sat and what is asat. Asat, nonpermanent. Everyone we know that this body is not permanent. And sat? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have to learn it. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body is asat, it will be destroyed, but the soul, which will never be destroyed... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarī... (BG 2.20). Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. That soul is never born, never dies, kadācit, at any time. Not that sometimes it dies and sometimes... No. Any time, kadācit.
So this sad-dharma means the occupational duty of the soul. That is sad-dharma. And except that duty, whatever we are doing, that is asad-dharma; it will not stay. Now I have got this body, Indian body or Christian body or American body. But this, everything, this conception of Christianity or Indian nationality or American nationality—everything will be finished with this body. Everything will be finished. Therefore all our engagements in this connection, they are all asad-dharma. It is very difficult. We are all engaged in occupational duties, all asad-dharma. But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gama: "Don't remain in this asat platform. Come to the sat platform." And the same thing is described here, sad-dharmasyāvabodhāya. So the human life begins when we can distinguish between sat and asat. If we remain in darkness without understanding what is sat and asat, then we are no better than dogs and cats. So the modern civilization, not only... Nowadays very big problem. People are very much attached to asad-dharma. They are not... Because they are so dull-headed, they cannot understand what is sat and what is asat. They cannot understand, dull-headed. Therefore brain requires to be clarified.
Anuvratā: they are always following. Therefore there is unity, oneness. There is oneness. God is one, and the living entities there, they are all followers, obedient of God. There is no influence of time, no influence of ignorance, no influence of passion. So that is perfect. That is spiritual kingdom, the description of spiritual world. This is from Bhāgavatam. And there are other verses in this chapter where this verse appears that, I have read it, that there are aeroplanes also. And the devotees, and the woman, they are just like lightning. So it appears there are men, there are women, there are airplane. Everything is there. Simply difference is that there is no influence of time. Influence of time there is no—that means there is no past, future and present, and there is no death. Death is the influence of time. An old man like me is going to die. Death means the influence of time is being acted on this body. So after a few days or few years, this must vanquish. So there is no influence of time.
So there is no death, there is no birth, there is no ignorance, and everyone is obedient, everyone is happy. And their features of body is also exactly like God. In the spiritual planets, all of a sudden if you go, you cannot distinguish who is God and who is not. Yes. Just like here also, when Kṛṣṇa comes, He appears just like one of us. So man is made after God. So so far features are concerned, there is no difference between God and man. But the difference is only that God has no material body; we have got this material body subjected to the influence of time. When Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not become old. He remains just like a boy even when He is great grandfather because on His body there is no influence of time. Because His body is spiritual, therefore there is no influence of time.
Not this little hospital or this little foodstuff. No. That cannot save him. If God neglects one... There is a Bengali, two lines: rakṣe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rakṣe ke. If Kṛṣṇa, if God wants to kill somebody, oh, nobody can protect him. And if God wants to protect him, oh, nobody can kill him. If God wants to kill him, nobody can protect him. And if God wants to kill him, nobody can protect him. Both ways. One Dr. Ghosh, he told me... Because I was in medical business. He went to see one patient. He explained that "I went to see one patient. He's suffering from pneumonia, and he's so poor man, and he's lying in so unfavorable condition. So our medical science says he would have at once died. But don't see he's dying. He's not dying." I have tested this. One doctor at Gayā, he's a Muhammadan doctor. So I saw that many patients are, I mean to..., surrounding him. So when I saw him I congratulated, "Doctor, you have got very good patients. Your practice is very nice." So his name was Suvahi (?). He's Muhammadan. So, "Sir, it is not my credit. If you want my practical experience, I'll say you that with confidence I prescribe somebody some medicine, it fails. And without any confidence, just to take a chance, I prescribe some medicine, 'Oh, let me see if it...' Oh, it works nicely. So actually, I have no credit."
So that sir, he was honest man to admit, "It is God's grace that so many patients are being cured in my hand, but I say I have no credit." This is really. So we should not take any credit. Everything is under the laws of the Supreme Lord, through the agency of this material external energy. Just like a government is working under different departments, similarly, God is working under His different energies. That's all. He's sitting with you, He's seeing everything, He knows everything. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows your past, present, and He knows your mind. As you wanted to do something, He will remind you, "My dear boy, you wanted to do this. Do it. And you wanted to place your hand on the fire. You've forgotten. Just place your hand on the fire and see. Test it." So this is going on. This is nature's law. And they are suffering. They are being kicked by the material nature, still, they have no sense. "I am God. I am God." These fools these rascals have created havoc in the world. Godlessness.
Festival Lectures
Amrtatva means immortality. So the modern civilization, they have no idea, either the great philosopher, great politician or great scientist, that it is possible to attain the stage of immortality. Amṛtatva. We are all amṛta. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na jāyate na mrīyate vā kadācin. We living entities, we never die, never take birth. Nityaḥ śāśvato yaṁ, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Every one of us, we are eternal, nityaḥ śāśvato; Purāṇa, the oldest. And after annihilation of this body, we do not die. Na hanyate. The body is finished, but I have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).
This simple thing, at the present moment, they are lacking knowledge, that we, all living entities, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we are eternal, we are blissful, and we are cognizant. Kṛṣṇa is described in the Vedic śāstras:
Our human life, the ultimate goal of human life is to achieve immortality. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), This is our..., we have forgotten this. We are simply leading the life of cats and dogs, without any knowledge that we can achieve that perfection of life when there will be no more birth, no more death. We do not understand even that there is possibility of amṛtatvam. But everything is possible. Amṛtatvam. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Nobody wants to become old man, nobody wants to become diseased. This is our natural inclination. Why? Because originally, in our spiritual form, there is no birth, no death, no old age, no disease. So after evolutionary process down from the aquatics, birds, beasts, plants, trees, when you come to this form of human form of body after... Aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tād jīva-jātiṣu. This is evolutionary process. We come to the human form of body. Then we should know what is the goal of life. The goal of life is amṛtatvam, to become immortal. That you can become immortal simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa says. It is a fact. We have to simply understand. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, tattvataḥ, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body, you don't accept any more material body. And as soon as you don't accept any material body means you become immortal. Because by nature we are immortal.
So Kṛṣṇa advents, Kṛṣṇa advents to teach us this lesson, that "You are immortal by nature. As spirit soul you are part and parcel of Me. I am as immortal. So you are also immortal. Unnecessarily, you are trying to be happy in this material world."
Arrival Addresses and Talks
So they don't go outside for solving economic problems. At the present moment—now I am coming from India—in Bombay there is strike, railway strike. People are in so miserable condition to go to their work fifty miles, forty miles, hundred miles, for earning their bread. This kind of economic situation has increased the problems of life. Rather, if we accept this economic problem solution, then anywhere, any part of the world, you live. You don't require to go outside, hundred miles, two hundred miles, five hundred miles. No. You produce your food there, keep animals, then everything is solved. Actually, the problem is, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). One should take up these problems very seriously: birth, death, old age and disease. So... Actually, as spirit soul, we have no birth, no death. You will find in the Bhagavad, na jayate na mriyate vā kadācit: "The living entity does not take birth." Na jayate na mriyate vā: "Neither he dies." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of the body, the living entity does not annihilate. He..." Just like we have got already the example: my body, childhood body, is annihilated; still, I am existing. Similarly, I will exist. Now, the problem is how I shall exist? I shall exist eternally in full knowledge and in blissfulness. That is the idea. But so long we accept this material body, it is just the opposite. It is miserable, without any knowledge and without eternity. Philosophy should be to save our time from complicated economic problems. We should make our life simple and save time for spiritual cultivation so that we can be relieved from repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
The modern civilization, everyone is thinking, "If I get a good wife and nice motorcar and a nice apartment, that is success." That is not success. That is temporary. Real success is to get out of the clutches of māyā, means this material conditional life which comprehends birth, death, old age and disease. We are passing through many varieties of life, and this human form of life is a good chance to get out of this chain of changing body one after another. The soul is eternal and blissful because part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, God, sac-cid-ānanda, eternal, full of bliss, full of knowledge. Unfortunately, in this material, conditional life we are changing different bodies, but we are not getting situated again in that spiritual platform where there is no birth, no death. There is no science. The other day one psychiatrist came to see me. And where is your education for understanding the soul, his constitutional position? So practically the whole world is in darkness. They are interested with fifty, sixty or hundred years of this span of life, but they do not know that we are eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, and due to this material body we are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. And this is going on continuously.
So long we keep ourself as :I am French man," "I am German man," "I am English man," "I am Indian man," or so many there are nationalities, there cannot be any fraternity, equality. We have come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or brahma-bhūtaḥ, then there will be fraternity, equality. And factually you can see in this movement all classes of men, all nationality, all religion, all color, they are coming together and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing. This is wanted. So don't be misled by the leaders of so-called eternity and fraternity. It is not possible. That are called andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31), just like a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. So come to this platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this fraternity and equality, also eternity. Eternity means that we living entities, we are eternal, we never die or never take birth. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have got French edition of Bhagavad-gītā, you will find there. Have you got that book here? No. You will find in that book, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You will find this verse that we living entities, we have no birth and no death. Na jāyate. You can read that verse in French. In the Second Chapter you will find. (devotee reads Sanskrit verse and translation in French) Purport is there? Go on. (laughter) Do serious, don't laugh. (devotee reads purport in French)
So if we simply understand one verse. There are seven thousand verse? No. Seven hundred, yes. Seven hundred verses. If we simply understand one verse only, as we have explained, then immediately we become brahma-bhūtaḥ, liberated. And that is the perfection of human form of life. A dog cannot understand. If I say to the dog that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul, you are eternal," he has no power to understand. And a human being can understand. He has got the capacity. So we are trying to educate all people, all nations of the world to understand this one verse, that's all. Na jāyate vā mriyate vā kadācit. If he simply understands this one verse, he immediately becomes liberated. And actually, human life is meant for understanding this philosophy or this truth. Then his life is successful. And as soon as we understand that we are eternal, we are not mortal, then naturally our inquiry will be, "Where we can live eternally?" That will be the inquiry. In the material world as you are forced to take birth and death, so similarly in the spiritual world, the first advantage is there is no birth and death, just the opposite. So our process is to train people how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is the only education required in this human life.
Initiation Lectures
So this is not a new system that we are introducing or manufacturing by our concocted imagination, but it is authorized, coming down by disciplic succession from time immemorial. It may be that in this country it is being introduced for the last two or three years, but this system is the oldest system, oldest system, just like we are nityaḥ śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the soul is eternal and Purāṇa. Purāṇa means the oldest. Purāṇa. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is also said, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyam purāṇa-puruṣam (Bs. 5.33). So Kṛṣṇa is also the oldest. Either Kṛṣṇa or the living creatures, all of them are the oldest because they have no death, no birth. There is no history. Na jāyate na mriyate. Bhagavad-gītā says that the living entity, what to speak of God... They say, "God is dead." This is all nonsense. What to speak of God, even these living creatures, they are not dead. The death program is for this body, just like changing, changing the body, er, changing the dress. So if one changes one dress or apartment, that does not mean that he is dead. Similarly, if we change this body to another body... As we are changing our body constantly, every moment, similarly, if we change this body to another body, that does not mean death. So death is not accepted in the Vedic literature. So either God or the living creature, nobody dies. Every one is eternal, śāśvata purāṇa. Similarly, as we are the oldest and eternal; similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also the oldest and eternal. (break)
After reading... Bhagavad-gītā is the summary of Vedic literature. You cannot read all the Vedas at the present moment, neither you have time, nor you have got the capacity. In this Kali-yuga, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo (SB 1.1.10), everyone is fallen. Manda-bhāgyā. So this human life should be utilized for understanding the Vedic knowledge, divya-jñāna; then he'll be purified, tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). My existential identity will be purified. At the present moment it is not purified. Because it is not purified, therefore we are repeatedly dying. But there is no knowledge how to stop death. They think death is natural. It is not natural. It is unnatural. They do not know it. But in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll get the information, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin: "The soul is never born, never dies." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. "I see he's died, he is dead." No, he's not dying, his body is being annihi...Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). By seeing the body is destroyed don't think he's destroyed. He'll get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So this is our position. We have accepted one body, and we live in that body for some days, and then again we give up this body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. So this is disease. So in order to get out of this disease there is necessity of tapasya, how to stop this disease.
General Lectures
We are now secure." So that defending process is there even in the swans, in the birds, in everything. You don't think that because we have manufactured atomic bombs, therefore we have become very good. What is this atomic bomb? Killing. Killing is going on. Have you manufactured anything by which you can save from death?
So our problems of life, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, is to solve these four things: no more birth... Because we are... Always remember that we are all eternal. Just like in this body, beginning from my mother's womb up to this old age, I am the same eternal soul, but my body is changing. So after changing this body also, I shall remain the same. Simply I shall have another body. This plain truth, there is no difficulty to understand. Now if I am eternal... If I am eternal means no death, no birth, no disease, no old age. That is eternal. So if I am eternal, whether it is possible to get an eternal body? Or eternal happiness? That is the problem of human society. If you can solve that problem, then you be proud of your civilization. Otherwise there is no difference between cats' and dogs' civilization and your civilization. Because you are simply trying to solve the problems of eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But these problems are already solved by nature's law.
So our developed intelligence should be utilized for solving these problems by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are presenting this movement before you, your country, because you are intelligent, you are materially advanced. You are greater than all other countries. Therefore I present this movement, scientific movement before you. You just try to understand it. Lord Caitanya's movement... This is Lord Caitanya's movement. And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta... That is in Sanskrit.
This body is born; therefore it will die. The death is born with the birth of my body. I am increasing my age, number of years of my age, means I'm dying. But in this verse of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says janma karma but never says "My death." Death cannot take place. God is eternal. You also do not die. That I do not know. I simply change my body. So this is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa consciousness science is a great science. It is stated...it is not a new thing. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... Most of you, you are well acquainted with Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it does not accept that after the death of this body—not exactly death—after the annihilation, appearance or disappearance of this body, you or I do not die. Na hanyate. Na hanyate means "never dies" or "is never destroyed," even after the destruction of this body. This is the position.
Now this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have to understand through the teachings of Lord Caitanya. He is the... Five hundred years ago, He appeared in Bengal, a province of India, and He specifically preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. His mission is that anyone who is born in India should take this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and distribute it all over the world. To execute that order we have come to your country. So my request is that you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with all your knowledge, scrutinizingly. Don't accept it blindly. Try to understand with your arguments, knowledge, logic, realization—you are human being—and you'll find it sublime, sublime, undoubtedly. We have published this book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and other books also, many books. So try to read them.
You have to accept knowledge from the authority. Therefore the Vedic system has rejected the Cārvāka Muni. He has no authority. He is authority himself. He says that there is no life, but what is the proof? But there are many proofs that there is next life. So who will accept Cārvāka Muni's theory? Nobody. No sane man will accept. And suppose if there is life. There are two philosophers: one says that there is no life, other says there is life. Now we have to study both, if there is life and if there is no life. But if there is life, the next answer to Cārvāka theory, if there is life, then if I'm working irresponsibly, then I am becoming victim to my next life. So there are... But we have to take from the authority. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says that na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin: "The soul is never born and never dies." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "Even after the annihilation of this body there is no destruction of the soul." And soul is migrating in different species of life. So we have to take Kṛṣṇa the authority, Veda-Vyāsa the authority. There are many such authorities. So there is next life. There is no doubt. The practical proof there is... And Kṛṣṇa has given many proof. I have spoken in this meeting many times. There is next life. So we should be responsible. This human form of life should not be wasted simply for sense gratification. That sense gratification facility is in every... Even in the cats and dogs, there is that facility. By nature it is already arranged. But the special qualification of this human form of life is to know himself, and to try to understand that "Why I am in miserable condition? Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go? What is God? What is this world?" This is called Vedānta. Vedānta means to understand all these things.
No. Death means forgetfulness. Death... Just like when you sleep you forget your day's activities. So sleep is partial death. In sleep also, you sometimes think that you have got a different body, you are floating on the air, or you have gone somewhere which you never seen. So that means the mind is forgetful of the day's activities. It has taken a different activity. Similarly, as soon as the body's changed, the mind is also changed. Mind function is thinking, feeling, and willing. So we feel, think, and will according to circumstances. Just like now you have got an American body, you are thinking like American. I have got an Indian body, I am thinking like Indian. Similarly, a dog has got a dog body, he's thinking like a dog. So mind changes also according to the position of the body.
So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is stated that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are all born ignorant. Either in human society or in animal society, we are born all ignorant. Therefore, in the human society the system is that children are given education. Why? Because it is supposed that the child is born ignorant. Similarly, as we give material education to the children, it is the duty of the parents to enlighten them with spiritual education. Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that "Nobody should desire to become a father, nobody should desire to become a mother, unless one is able to save the child from the impending death." So that is also the duty of spiritual master. One should not become a spiritual master unless one is able to save the disciple from impending death. And what is that impending death? Impending death means... Because we are spirit soul, we have no death. But impending death means of this body. So it is the duty of spiritual master, it is the duty of the parents, it is the duty of the state, it is the duty of kinsmen, friends, everyone, to save people from this impending birth and death.
So how to save? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Lord Kṛṣṇa says,
- mām upetya kaunteya
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
"Anyone who comes to Me, he has no more to go back to the miserable material existence." Therefore it is the duty of a spiritual master, it is the duty of the parents, that they should enlighten their dependents to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dhīra, those who are sober, intelligent, they are not bewildered when a living entity changes his body. So change of body is going on in every moment, in every second, imperceptibly. Medical science also accepts that in every second we are changing our blood corpuscles. That is a fact. We are changing body every moment. And the final change is called death. But actually, there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You accept another body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), "After many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, "when a man or a living entity becomes actually wise and intelligent..." Not fools. Fools cannot understand. One has to become very intelligent. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Jñānavān means very intelligent, wise man. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. Kṛṣṇa says that "After many, many births of struggle, or attempt for acquiring knowledge, when one comes to the summit point of understanding, he understands that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), the origin of everything is Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa." Vāsudeva. Origin of everything is Kṛṣṇa.
It is not difficult to understand. Sometimes teachers say to the student, "Do it conscientiously, with attention." When our full attention is there, full absorption, full concentration of the mind, that is consciousness. And another way of consciousness is the feeling which is spread all over your body. Just like I pinch over your head or any part of your body, you feel—that is consciousness. But when this body is dead or when you are out of this body, if I chop up your body, there is no consciousness. That is the distinction between consciousness. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the consciousness is stated: avināśi. Avināśi means cannot, never dies. Always living. Avināśi tu tad viddhi. You just try to understand that thing without always living. What is that? Yena sarvam idaṁ tatam—by which your whole body is spread by air(?). And anywhere of your body, that consciousness is spread. And that substance, consciousness, is always living. When you leave this body this consciousness goes to another body. Just like the air passes, the flavor the air carries from one garden to another place. Similarly, this consciousness will carry you to another body after your death. After you leave this body... Just like we are changing our consciousness also from childhood consciousness to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, and the old age. The consciousness is carrying me although the body is changing. Similarly, when you change this body, the consciousness will carry you to another body. That consciousness is always living. It is never dead. (break) Because they don't take it.
This is our ignorance. But we are changing body. Every moment we are changing body. The spool is going on. The exact example is that, like that, the film. Every second, changing one picture, one picture, one picture, one picture. And it appears that it is only one picture. One who does not know how the machine, cinematographic machine is working—the foolish persons—they say, they think that the picture is one and it is moving. No. It is changing. Similarly, the body is also changing. The exact example is changing of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. That is the exact word used in the Bhagavad-gītā. So even for an ordinary living being, we cannot see how the body is changing, how the living entity is changing from body to another. It is so swiftly, every moment, every second, it is taking place. How you can see? So there is no death; it is simply changing.
So if for ordinary living entity there is no death, how Kṛṣṇa can be appearing and dying? No. Therefore, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). One who knows in truth how Kṛṣṇa is appearing, how Kṛṣṇa is disappearing, he is learned. He is learned in the spiritual science, and for him, as soon as he becomes learned, well-versed in the spiritual science, Kṛṣṇa science, he immediately becomes liberated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu confirms, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). Because one who has understood Kṛṣṇa in truth, he is liberated person. Therefore he is guru. Guru cannot be a conditioned soul. Guru must be liberated. Because without complete knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, without being free from the contamination of the three modes of material nature... One cannot understand Kṛṣṇa on account of his being engrossed with these three material modes of nature. And Kṛṣṇa says, "One who understand Me rightly, he becomes immediately free."
Just like in your childhood you were in a body which was called baby or child. Now I am old man. I can remember in my childhood I was so small, but that body is gone. Now I have got a different body. But I am there. This is the understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). By changing body, the eternal soul does not, I mean to say, annihilate. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. This understanding is called Brahman understanding, that "I am eternal. I have no birth; I have no death. The birth and death is pertaining to this body. I am changing body from one body to another." This is called brahma-bhūtaḥ understanding. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is.
So when one comes to this understanding, his characteristics will be that he is jolly. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). He becomes jolly. In the material state everyone is morose, full of anxiety, but in the spiritual life he is jolly. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. What is the characteristic of jolliness? That he does not lament, he does not hanker. In the material stage we hanker for things which we do not possess, and we lament for things we have lost. But in the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, as soon as we understand that we are spirit soul, there is no more hankering or lamenting. That is the characteristic of Brahman realization. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then you can think of universal brotherhood. So long you are under the category of hankering and lamenting, you cannot think of universal brotherhood. That is impossible. Therefore in spite of so much of conferences in the United Nations, the fighting is going on. The Pakistan is separated on the ground of religion: Hindu, Muslim. Now they are fighting between Muslim and Muslim.
That is not possible. Therefore dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Anyone who does not cultivate religious life, he is no better than an animal. He's animal. If you are simply interested with eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, nothing more, then this is animal civilization. This is not human civilization.
So we have got the opportunity. Why we should accept religious life? To get out of these material clutches. People do not take it very seriously, but those who are intelligent, they take it seriously. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that living soul, the living entity or the soul... Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The living entity, the soul, is never born; it never dies. It is the oldest. Nityaḥ śāśvataṁ purāṇa. Purāṇa means very old; nitya, eternal; na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, does not die after the destruction of this body. The death and birth is of the body, not of the soul. Therefore when we are actually intelligent, cultured, advanced, then we should be inquisitive that "If I am eternal, then why I am subject to these tribulations of birth, death, old age, and disease?" That is intelligence. It is not intelligence that "The cats and dogs are eating on the footpath; I am eating (in) a very nice plate, nice hotel or nice table." You are eating, that's all. It is not advancement of civilization when you think that you have got good apartment, good house, and sleeping in a nice bedstead, and the cat and dog is lying on the floor or in the street. No. She sleeping; when you sleep, the enjoyment is as good as of the cats and dogs. Similarly, sex life also. They also enjoy, you also enjoy. Then what is your special prerogative? The special prerogative is that you can understand in this life that you are eternal, you are Brahman. Therefore the, in the human form of life, if one is not so advanced as to inquire about the Brahman, athāto brahma jijñāsā... This human form of life is meant for inquiring about Brahman, or spirit soul. So long this inquiry is not there, one is animal. That's all.
"Here is your ultimate goal of life, Kṛṣṇa. Come here. Be trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." This is our movement. That is the ultimate goal. (break) ...go somewhere. Because you are eternal. Simply by finishing your body, you will not finish. You have to go. But where you shall go? That you can plan in this life. And if you make this plan, that "I want to go back to home, back to Godhead..." The Bhagavad-gītā is there. You study. You cultivate this knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa says: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). "My dear Arjuna, such persons who have developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body." Tyaktvā deham. "After giving up this body..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Janma means birth, means accepting another material body. Otherwise, the soul has no birth, no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. The soul never takes birth or never dies. It is the body only. It takes birth and dies according to my karma. So if one becomes Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa conscious, the ultimate goal of life, then after giving up this body, he does not accept any more any material body. Then what does he do? Mām eti, "He comes to Me." This is the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the ultimate goal of life.
Therefore this Brahman realization is being explained by Kṛṣṇa. This is Brahman. Brahman means sanātana, eternal. "My dear Arjuna, you also existed, I also existed in the past, because we are Brahman." Otherwise matter does not exist eternally. Any matter, any material thing you take, it does not exist. It has got a beginning and it has got an end, and in the middle there are so many disturbances—six kinds of changes in the matter, ṣaḍ-vikāra. But spirit, soul, Brahman, it has no change. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Avināśi, na hanyate, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). These statements are there.
So this is Brahman realization, that "I have no death. I have no birth." This is Brahman realization. The birth and death is concerned with this body, and I am not this body.
Therefore the conclusion is that, in spite of change of body, the spirit soul remains the same eternally. Similarly, when I shall change this body, I shall get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. That is called transmigration of the soul.
But unfortunately there is no education on this spiritual knowledge in any school, college, although there are books. They can read, they can understand the constitutional position of the soul. But there is no arrangement. Perhaps this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only institution which is teaching people that he is not this body; he's spirit soul—he's different from body and he's transmigrating from one body to another, birth and death. Actually, the spirit soul has no birth and death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The spirit soul is eternal. It does not take birth or it dies. The body is changing. The change of the body is known as birth and death. We are eternal; therefore nobody wants to die, because he is eternal by constitution. He doesn't like to change, but he's forced to change by some power. That is understanding, that "I do not wish to die. What is that force that obliges me to accept death? I do not wish to become old man, but there is a power which is forcing me to accept old age." This is the problem. Unfortunately we have given up the real problem of life. We are very much embarrassed with the temporary existence of this body, say for some years, fifty years or hundred years.
Importance of this movement is this, that we do not know what is the aim of life. The modern civilization, all over the world, especially in the Western world—nobody knows what is the actual problem and what is the aim of life. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, "The real problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9), that birth, death, old age and disease, these are the problems." If you take birth, then you will have to die. Anyone who takes birth, he must have to die. And so long, between birth and death, there is old age and disease. Actually, these are the problems. So far we are concerned, living entities, every one of us, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "The living entity is never born, never dies." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "The living entity is eternal, ever-existing and very old, and," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, "it does not die after the annihilation of this body." But the modern civilization, they are thinking that "This body we have got somehow or other, a lump of matter, and so long we have got this body, let us enjoy life, sense gratification." This is atheistic theory.
Or as śiṣya..., that "This kind of things never happens in the case of a paṇḍita." That means, "My dear friend, you are apaṇḍita. You are not paṇḍita." One who does not know about the spirit soul, he is not a paṇḍita. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. This transmigration of the soul... Just like you condole d one Rotarian who has died. But Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhyati. "Yes, he's not dead. He has transmigrated to another body. He's not dead." That is the... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, that "Don't think that because the body is annihilated, therefore the person is annihilated. No." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "That soul never takes birth, never dies." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. There are so many students of Bhagavad-gītā, but because they are not actually paṇḍita, they do not take account of the simple thing, how the soul transmigrates from one body to another. This is the position. And therefore we should not continue to remain apaṇḍitāḥ, nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ, and lament. So long we are not paṇḍitāḥ, our business is to lament and to hanker. We lament what is lost, and we hanker what is not in our possession. This is material disease. So when we understand that ahaṁ brahmāsmi... That hint is given by Kṛṣṇa, that asmin dehe dehinaḥ: "The proprietor of the body is there, asmin dehe. On account of presence of the proprietor of the body, the body is changing." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). The kaumāra, the childhood, the boyhood, the youthhood—these changes of body is taking place on account of presence of the dehina. So where is this education all over the world? There is no such education. But there is knowledge. This is Bhagavad-gītā. We don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā; therefore there is no such education, athāto brahma jijñāsā, or to understand Brahman.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot generalize because your senses are limited, your life is limited. How you can study all men? You cannot go all countries where there are so many men all over the world, universe. You cannot test them. Therefore your method is defective. From his definition, that studying all men—but you cannot study. You can study a limited number of men. And if you conclude, suppose whoever you have met, you have seen that he has died. But I may say that you might not have seen a man who never dies. Then what will he accomplish?
Śyāmasundara: Well, since knowledge is limited to our experience...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. If your knowledge is limited, then you cannot generalize. Therefore our conclusion is that we don't take knowledge from anyone whose power is limited. There are four defects of the ordinary man—he may be John Stuart Mill or something—because he's to commit mistakes, he's illusioned. Just like he's talking of that induction, studying all men. This is an illusion. He cannot study. Suppose you have hundreds and thousands of men you have studied. That does not mean the whole set of human being is finished. That is, therefore, this theory is illusion. And because he's an ordinary man, he's illusioned that it is possible. So these are the defects. One commits mistakes, one is illusioned, one cheats. This is cheating also. The theory which he is putting forward is never possible to be executed, and still he's posing himself that he is philosopher. That is cheating. His senses are imperfect. He cannot do that. And still he proposes the theory. That is cheating. So these four defects are there: committing mistake, to illusion, to cheat others, and studying everything with imperfect senses.
Śyāmasundara: He has five methods for ascertaining knowledge.
Prabhupāda: If somebody thinks that "In future, fifty years after, I shall become old man," this is knowledge. And if somebody thinks that "No, no, I shall never become old," that is ignorance. Although it is future—a man of knowledge knows that this will be future. So I shall continue to live in future, and I was a child in the past, and I am a middle aged man at this time, so in these three, past, present and future, I am existing. Where is the difficulty? If this simple truth one cannot understand, that what kind of human being he is? I remain in the past as child, the body is finished. Now I am a middle-aged man or young man, the body is different. And in future I shall become old man, that body will be different. So I, as a child, I, as a young man, as an old man, I am the same, all the bodies changing. This is the fact. Who can deny it? So where is the difficulty to understand it? And in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Both you, Me, and all these soldiers, they existed in the past, and they are present existing, and in future they will continue to exist. This is immortality. He says when, I mean very openly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This living soul, he is never born. That body is changed, that is called birth. But the soul is immortal. So he never takes birth, he never dies. "No, I see that he has died." No, that is the annihilation of his body. Take it from me that by the annihilation of the body, the soul is not dead. This, this is authority and this is, we have to accept this authority. If you don't accept authority, if you have no reason to understand how the soul is immortal, then what we are, except like the animals? So one who does not believe or cannot understand, he is no better than animal. He has no knowledge. This is the beginning of knowledge. Then other (indistinct). First of all one must understand what he is. If he does not know what he is, he is wrongly directed. He is taking care of the body. Just like he, the cage and bird. If you simply take care of the cage without taking care of the bird, is that very good knowledge? That is foolishness.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. The reality is... Then you have to concern... Just like when you are diseased, when you are in the trouble, some implication of legal matter, then you go to the lawyer, how to get out of it. When you are diseased, when you are troubled, you go to the physician. Similarly, if you are actually eager to get out of the anxiety, then you have to go to somebody who knows that Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Simply by knowing Me," tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). "You should simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "Anyone who knows Me, how I appear, what I do, what is My function," that means anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, "then after living in this body, he does not take birth again." And if there is no birth, there is no death, there is no disease, there is no trouble. As soon as there is birth there must be... Anyone who has taken birth, he must die. That is the law. Anywhere. Anything which is born must die, must get old, must be diseased. Anything, even you take material things—this machine—it has got a date of birth, and there will be a death when it will stop functioning. And it is getting older. That is the law. But here is Kṛṣṇa says that "You can stop death, simply by understanding Me." And if you stop birth, punar janma, then you stop other things. Because death is there, then there is birth, but if there is no birth, there is no death. You have to think like that, that these are the problems of anxiety: birth, death, old age, and disease. So here Kṛṣṇa says that you can stop your birth. Punar janma naiti: no more birth. Then I can stop all other things. Because as soon as there is birth, the other things are there. But if there is no birth, the other things are not there. That makes you anxietyless. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is required. This is the condition to solve all anxieties.
Śyāmasundara: He says this anxiety is evidence of finitude.
Prabhupāda: Mm?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like to become feverish, that is not my natural state. Under certain circumstances, I have become weak (indistinct) fever, but that is not my natural condition. If medicine is given, the fever is gone. Then I am (indistinct), and that is called mukti. Mukti, liberation, means to get out of this feverish condition. That's all. (indistinct) mukta, in Sanskrit it is called. Roga is not natural. It comes, disease comes. So whatever disease... Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), that all these four things are disease, externally. Otherwise the living entity has no birth, no death, no disease, no illness. Nitya sasta (Sanskrit). How they're getting older? These are externalities. People are so ignorant that they don't know how to drive away these external (indistinct) conditions. They think it is natural, "Let me suffer." That is their ignorance.
Śyāmasundara: One of Jung's favorite techniques for improving a person's personality is to force that person to bring up the demonic force in himself and treat it as another person. If the demon within me is not really me, it's another personality which causes...
Prabhupāda: That is not very important, how one becomes affected by some disease. But when the disease is there, the treatment must be there. That is natural. Instead of tracing out the history, what is the use? That the disease is there, make treatment and be cured, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: But this demon that haunts me, that is another personality besides my real personality.
Prabhupāda: That is not a... Personality, I am. Just like delirium, the same personality, but he's talking nonsense in delirium. If you remove the delirium condition, then he becomes again the original person. Delirium is not person.
Hayagrīva: The fourth form of rebirth is called renovacio and applies to the transformation of a mortal into an immortal being, of a corporeal into a spiritual being, and of a human into a divine being. Well-known prototypes of this change are the transfiguration and ascension of Christ and the assumption of the mother of God into heaven after her death together with her body. In other words, the body is somehow..., it doesn't die, the gross body doesn't die, but it's transformed.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual, spiritual body continues. Spiritual body never dies. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So hanyamāne, destruction, is of the material body. The spiritual body is never destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. The spiritual body, neither it is generated, neither it is dead. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ: it is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) it, it is not destroyed even after the destruction of the material body. That is spiritual body.
Hayagrīva: But is there any example of this ascension into heaven? Didn't Arjuna...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hayagrīva: ...ascend into...
Devotee: Yudhiṣṭhira?
Hayagrīva: The higher... Who?
Devotee: Yudhiṣṭhira was...
Hayagrīva: Was it Yudhiṣṭhira?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many instances. The special instance is Kṛṣṇa and His associates.
Prabhupāda: But that you cannot do. You cannot take the question of birth, death, old age in your hands. How he says that you shall be able to take matters into your own hands?
Śyāmasundara: Well, most scientists like that accept those problems as inescapable problems. But while we are here, let us have the best life we can.
Prabhupāda: But if he can give you better life, where there is no death, there is no old age, there is no disease, why not accept it?
Devotee: We only accept that as a (indistinct) life here. This life you may remain eternal. We have no (indistinct) beyond this life, nor are we willing to accept.
Prabhupāda: That is your conclusion. This cannot be corrected. This cannot be corrected. That they cannot live. They accept it. But there, after death, it is done. But if we give some thought that after death you can attain, what does he say? After death, if there is a life of blissful knowledge, so why don't they take it?
Devotee: Well, a lot of scientists consider that to be a, simply a psychological way of avoiding the issue now. They say, "Let us take matters in our hand right now. Don't try to..."
Prabhupāda: The idea is we have not been able to take the matter in hand to stop death. That is not possible.
Devotee: They think by endeavoring, they will. They say that for so long this idea that we have a life after this life, that kept people complacent, without working up to their own conclusion. Now if you cast out that idea, you forget that idea of an afterlife and you look at here and now, then you will become...
Prabhupāda: Therefore the ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa does not sanction your so-called first-class medicine, physician, place, and everything will be spoiled. And if he sanctions, even you don't appoint any physician, he will (indistinct). Rakhe kṛṣṇa mareke mare kṛṣṇa rakheke. If Kṛṣṇa kills nobody can save him, and if Kṛṣṇa saves, nobody can kill. Just like Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. They made plans that they'll never die, but Kṛṣṇa killed them. No condition will be (indistinct). That is our philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: That's it. He says here, of all things the ego is uncaused, the spontaneous self-consciousness...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am living force, the ego must be there. I am. And that I am may be misplaced: "I am this body or this mind." Real I am, I am servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is real I am.
Śyāmasundara: So the I am is not caused by anything.
Prabhupāda: No, I am is eternal, Kṛṣṇa is eternal, and I (am) also eternal.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that the noncaused ego posits the nonego, or it gives them meaning, existence. It gives...
Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy, nonego means although I have got my identification, I am, still I have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa says "You do this," I don't say, "I will not do." I don't impose my will. I sacrifice my individuality. Kṛṣṇa says, I must do. Therefore my ego is not there.
Prabhupāda: So it may..., it can be taken figuratively, that when one forgets his position, that is a kind of death also. One forgets himself. But actually soul is eternal, and what Augustine says as spiritual death, that is his forgetfulness. Just like in unconsciousness one forgets his identity, but if he is dead then he cannot revive consciousness. Similarly, it is little difficult for the bodily concept of life persons, but there are many proofs and understanding that soul is eternal. He, of course, until he gets his freedom from this material existence, he is spiritually dead. Even though he is working in this material form, because he has forgotten his real identity, that is also a kind of death. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. This śloka explains how one is dead and how one is alive. When one is forgetful of his spiritual consciousness, God consciousness, he is supposed to be dead, and when he, one is alive to the spiritual consciousness or God consciousness, he is alive. In this sense, it is a question of two stages, awakening stage and forgetful stage, but actually a soul is eternal. He never dies, even after the annihilation of this body.
Hayagrīva: But the forgetful stage is never everlasting or eternal, is it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is not. It can be, what is called, revived, his consciousness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like a man is sleeping, almost unconscious, but if you call him again and again, and the sound enters through the ear into the heart, he becomes awakened. Similarly, by this chanting process he revives his spiritual consciousness, then he is alive in his spiritual life.
Hayagrīva: So then... But Augustine would say that God would eternally abandon the damned soul, a soul damned to eternal perdition.
| Page Title: | No death (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 24 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=40, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 40 |