Guest (1): As long as I have got body, I can never know God fully.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right, so long you have got the body.
Guest (1): All of our śāstras says...
Prabhupāda: But, you hear me. You have come to take some light. You kindly hear.
Guest (1): Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: You were talking on the Bhagavad-gītā. I say on the Bhagavad-gītā. So so long you have got this body, there is no perfection. That's a fact.
Guest (1): Yes, sir.
Prabhupāda: But Bhagavad-gītā says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Bhagavad-gītā says that if you understand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, janma karma me... First of all, you always remember that whatever we are talking, we are talking on the Bhagavad-gītā, on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, you'll not have to accept another material body. This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. But so long you'll accept this body, material body, you'll remain imperfect. There cannot be any perfection. It may be gradation. There are eight million, four hundred forms of life. There is Brahmā, and there is ant also. Both of them are living entities. But the status quo of the ant, and the status quo of Brahmā is not the same, higher consciousness or mental... So they're all in the material world. None of them are perfect. Between Brahmā and ant, there are millions of other living entities, eight million. Not only one million. Millions. 8,400,000 forms of life. They're all imperfect because they have accepted this material body, either Brahmā or ant, but your perfection will come when you do not accept this material body. That is the, I mean to, the destination of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti: (BG 4.9) "After quitting this body, he does not accept any more this material body." This, that means he, he becomes perfect. That is stated in another place. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ (BG 8.15). Mām upetya. Find out this... Now, unless you take some standard book of knowledge, we cannot talk. If you talk whimsically, I talk whimsically, then there will be no end of talk. We have to... Because you told me the other day: "In the Bhagavad-gītā..." That is all right. Here is a standard. Everyone accepts. Now..., You have found it?
Śrutakīrti: Mām upetya punar janma... (BG 8.15).
Prabhupāda: Mām upetya tu kaunteya...
Śrutakīrti: Oh.
Girl: May I ask you a question?
Prabhupāda: No, you don't ask. We are talking.
Śrutakīrti: Ā-brahma...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti:
- ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ
- punar āvartino 'rjuna
- mām upetya tu kaunteya
- punar janma na vidyate
- (BG 8.16)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now here is the perfectional stage. Now what is the translation?
Śrutakīrti: "From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place, but one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again."
Prabhupāda: So as soon as you have to take birth, you have to die. Just like Aurobindo took birth; he died. Everyone. Everyone, even Brahmā. It may be a long duration or a small duration. That doesn't matter. Everyone. That is the perfectional knowledge, how to solve this birth and death problem. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). As soon as we are under these clutches of birth and death, old age and disease, we are imperfect. We are imperfect. Whatever I may be, you may be, but if I am subjected to birth, death, old age and disease, then I am imperfect. Therefore the perfectional, perfection of life is when you haven't got to take birth or die or become diseased and old. That is perfection.