Material condition (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"material condition" |"material conditional" |"material conditioned" |"material conditioning" |"material conditions" |"materially conditioned"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Subtle form, subtle form.

Guest (1): Those are again due to want.

Prabhupāda: Due to want? Yes.

Guest (1): All these forms are due to want.

Prabhupāda: Want. That want because you are in the material condition.

Guest (1): Every person in a material... Spirit in matter remains because both are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (1): Now, as we have got a material form...

Prabhupāda: Spirit has got no material form. Spirit has got spiritual form.

Guest (1): Spiritual form but yet also it has got a material form.

Prabhupāda: Because he has come... Just like you have accepted this kind of coat. I have got a different kind of coat. She has got a different kind of coat.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Mental speculation, mano-rathena. Ratha means chariot, one who is driving on the chariot of mind, mano-rathena. The chariot of mind will take him, will fix him only on material conditions. So long one remains in the material conditions of life, he cannot have good qualifications. One has to transcend this material platform and come to the spiritual platform. Then his natural good qualities will come out automatically.

Dr. Weir: This, of course, is the basis to, of real ...

Prabhupāda: For example, for example, our boys, Europeans, American boys, they were addicted with illicit sex life. They were addicted to meat-eating. They were addicted drinking. They were addicted to gambling. Now they've given up everything. There is no illicit sex in our society. There is no gambling. There is no meat-eating. There is not even smoking, or taking, drinking tea. How it is possible? They were addicted to all these things from beginning of their life. Now they have given up. If you take this as good qualities, then they have already developed, besides others. Why? Because due to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes in America the authorities they are surprised. They want to consult us on that: "How you people have given up this (indistinct)." They are spending so much money to stop this bad habit. How it is that your members used to (indistinct) Not only LSD, all kinds of intoxications. So if you take it as a good quality, that good quality is developing due to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore this is a fact: one who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, he may go on speculating but he'll never come to the platform of goodness. That is our test.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We should not cry for bodily problem. We should simply try to improve our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how we can better serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our business. Bodily comforts, this comfort, that is already settled up with this body. But we should also know that anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, if he has got any slight desire for bodily comfort, he'll get that. He'll get that. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if he tries, that is not possible. If I have got slight desire for my material improvement, Kṛṣṇa will satisfy you, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That means you are double way benefited. You get Kṛṣṇa consciousness as well as your desire for material benefit. That is also there. But without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you want to improve your material condition, that is not possible. Deha-yogena de... You may become rich, that's all right, but comfort does not depend on your richness. If you're not Kṛṣṇa conscious, it does not mean because you have got some money by struggling very hard you'll get. There are so many rich men you'll find, they are not comfortable. I have heard from our students, their parents, just like Śyāmasundara was telling, his father is taking... What is that pill?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we hear, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam that God is in everyone's heart as Supersoul. Now, I am thinking of getting something. So God knows immediately that "He wants to have this," so He gives me the necessary thing which appears to me as chance, without knowing God. The things are supplied by God because He is giving me all facilities to enjoy this material world to my heart's content by supplying all the ingredients. That is the material condition. So these foolish persons are taking as chance, but it is not chance. God is omnipotent. As soon as He understands that I want this, He gives me some facility so that I get it. So it is not chance. It is by arrangement of superior authority. But because they are atheists, they have no sense of God consciousness, they are taking as chance, that necessity creates that chance; automatically it is coming. Not automatically. Chance does not mean automatically. I cannot see something, but all of a sudden falls... Just like I am hungry, I want some food. So Kṛṣṇa knows it that you want some... Some way or other, the food comes to me. So it is the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, but I see it is chance: "I was hungry and by chance the food has come." That is my less intelligence. It is not chance; it is plain. Otherwise you cannot adjust the meaning of chance in that way, that as soon as there is necessity, immediately the opportune chance comes before us.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Even you get bread, what do you get? Bread is already given even to the animals. That they do not know. Therefore, they take religion for material gain. Dharma artha. And Bhāgavata says, arthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. When you get money, it is not for satisfaction of your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). And when it is the question of kāma, desire, that does not mean sense gratification. Lābho jīveta yāvatā. Simply you have to accept thing for living. It is not that you shall not eat. You eat, live. Then what for living? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Your working so hard is not that to develop your material condition of life. You live peacefully without any disturbance of hunger, but your life should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, asking about Kṛṣṇa. That is life. So we don't want to stop all the activities. But they are busy always, they have no time for... Ask all these men, they are obstructing: "What these people are doing?" There is no end of their sense gratification. First of all get one motorcar is required, "All right." As soon as he gets money, "I'll purchase another one for my son, another for my daughter, another for my wife." Going on, going on. And he has to maintain four motorcars, then work hard, hard, hard. So indriya-prītiḥ: "Oh, I have got a car, why not my son?"

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all we have to know ourselves. To know ourselves means self-realization: "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." Then what is this spirit soul? Naturally, part and parcel of God. Therefore as spirit soul my duty is to serve God. That is religion, plain thing. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It is serving me. That is healthy condition. If there is any pain—"Oh, this finger cannot scratch. I'm feeling pain"—that is irreligion. So long the part and parcel of my body, the finger, cannot serve me, it is not normal condition. So every living being is part and parcel of God. So long he's unable to serve God, that is his material condition. But as soon as he's engaged actually in the service of God, that is his real liberated position. Same example: If the finger is diseased, it cannot serve. But when it is serving, that is healthy condition. Similarly, we living entities, we are part and parcel of God. When we are not engaged in the service of the Lord, or God... Everyone is engaged to some service. Somebody's serving his family, somebody's serving himself, somebody's serving his government, somebody's serving so many things. And somebody's serving even cats and dogs. So these are all mad condition. So when he turns to God... Service he must give. Nobody can say, "I'm not serving anybody." That is not possible. You must be serving somebody. Just like you are serving government, he is serving some office, because service is our nature. So we are not happy because the service is misplaced. When the service is rightly placed, then it is our normal condition. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "You surrender unto Me."

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Easygoing, that is actual real life. But that easygoing, you must come to that stage. If you come to a healthy stage, then when you eat you can digest nicely. But unhealthy stage, if you eat, how you will digest? Therefore, you have to cure your disease first of all. Then you eat, it will be digested. So in the material condition, nothing can be (indistinct). Therefore, how it is called conditioned life?

Jayatīrtha: We're bound up by so many conditions.

Prabhupāda: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Nārada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but the thing, we have to see by the effect. Similarly, if the small particle of... Therefore our knowledge is perfect. We take it from Vedas. The small particle of soul, because it is present there, you will see the whole thing is going on nicely.

Karandhara: But they say the soul is subject to material conditions. They are seeing the body as the soul; so they say because it is subject to material conditions, therefore it's not eternal.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Maybe material conditions, that is... But soul you have to accept there is soul.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once they accept the existence of the soul, then there is not much difficulty. Once they accept this, then automatically they have to accept.

Prabhupāda: No, they have to accept. They have no explanation. All they explain foolishly. How the man is living, how there is consciousness, he cannot explain. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. Consciousness, because the soul is there, if I pinch here, immediately I feel, I am conscious. Throughout the whole skin, I am conscious. Actually the soul is not there. If you cut it, chop it, nobody protests. Why this simple thing they do not understand?

Paramahaṁsa: That's the soul, Prabhupāda, but about God...

Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand the soul. Soul is the, a small God, sample God. If you understand the sample, then you can understand the whole thing.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, our Society is association. If we keep good association, then we don't touch the darkness. What is that association? There is a song, sat-saṅga cari goinu asate vilāsa teka name lagi loma karma bandha phāṅsa.(?) Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means association with the devotees. That is called sat-saṅga. So the, one poet, Vaiṣṇava poet, is regretting that "I did not keep association with the devotees, and I wanted to enjoy life with the nondevotees. Therefore I'm being entangled in the fruitive activities." Karma bandha phāṅsa. Entanglement. Here in this material world we act, and the result is there. Again we enjoy the result and act, again another result. We act, another result, another result. Because as soon as you act, there will be some result, good or bad. So, good or bad, by good result we get good birth, good money, good bodily features, good education—these are the effects of good work. And the effects of bad work, low-grade family, abominable, ugly bodily features, no education, no money, poor—these are the two effects of material good and bad work. But those who are trying to be transcendental both to the good and bad work, devotees, they are perfect. Because in this material world either you do good work or bad work, you have to suffer the material condition. Just like you are, suppose you are Englishman, you are well situated. But you can not avoid the influence of the weather. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, I'm... That is generally. Unless one becomes in goodness... But bhakti-mārga is transcendental. It does not depend on the qualities of this material nature. Ahaituki apratihatā. Ahaituki. Apratihatā. Nothing can check bhakti-mārga. Even one is in the platform of ignorance, it cannot check. It cannot check. Ahaituki apratihatā. Because it is purely spiritual. It does not depend on material conditions. It does not depend on material... These goodness, passion, ignorance, they are material conditions. So bhakti does not depend on material conditions.

Revatīnandana: Why is it then, that one person accepts it and another rejects it?

Prabhupāda: That is his choice.

Revatīnandana: That is from a spiritual position, his basic disposition?

Prabhupāda: That is his choice, yes. We have got this independence, to accept or not to accept.

Guest (10): So does faith develop from accepting?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith means acceptance. When you accept, then your faith begins. If you have got hesitation, then the faith has not begun. Or it is on the hazy state. (pause) Get the lights on.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, "best of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means the best. And asura... Because his father was demon. So he was calling his father "demon number one." "My dear father, my dear asura-varya..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. "Anyone who has accepted this material body..." Dehinām, he has said. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. "They are all full of anxiety." Anyone. Not only human beings, even animals, birds, beasts. You'll see, when a bird is there, he'll always, that, "Some enemy may not come." Even animals. Even tiger is afraid, although he's so powerful. Elephant is afraid. sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why? Asad-grahāt. "Because they have accepted this material body." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). "They should not be satisfied with the society, family and love and this and that. They should take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. Then they'll be happy." We are trying to be satisfied in this material condition, society, friendship, love and so forth, so on and we are after that. But there, there is no possibility. Unless you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, harim āśrayeta, there is no possibility. The whole world is trying to adjust things of the society, friendship, love and material atmosphere. That cannot be. That is not possible. Only by taking shelter... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says. Not whimsically. That is the only remedy: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the only remedy. There is no other remedy. But they'll not take. What can be done? This is the only remedy, harim āśrayeta. One should take shelter of Hari, Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be happy. Otherwise it is not possible.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, that is real freedom. Just like this, my finger, is part and parcel of my body. So long the finger serves the body, it is healthy. If it is painful, it cannot serve, then it is unhealthy. Similarly, a living entity, when he cannot serve God, that is his material condition, or unhealthy condition. When he serves God, that is his natural condition. Because he's part and parcel of God.

Father Tanner: Where did we lose the contact with God?

Prabhupāda: When you misused your freedom. You have got little freedom.

Father Tanner: But at what point did I... No. Or, a child lose its contact with its Creator?

Prabhupāda: It is said... Suppose I am serving my master. I can think of, "Oh, why shall I serve him? I shall become independent." That is my freedom, little freedom. So I cannot become independent. That is not my healthy stage. Just like... Take for example, a dog. A dog is healthy when he has got a good master. And if he hasn't got a good master, he's a street dog, neglected. He's not healthy. Similarly our position is like that, that we must be dependent on God. Therefore in your Christian Bible also you go for your bread: "God, give us our daily bread." So you are dependent. So it is better to remain dependent on God than to use your so-called little freedom.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.

Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it. They want to have two paradises, one here and one there also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: "Because the service has been rendered."

Prabhupāda: They do not know how much they are suffering in this material condition of life. So if somebody is saved, then it is a great service. What is, what is your name?

David Lawrence: David Lawrence.

Prabhupāda: David Lawrence. He was also David, that sculptor?

Śyāmasundara: David Wynne.

David Lawrence: There's another David over there as well, who's come here. That is David.

Śyāmasundara: You can come again anytime you like. After four, any evening you can come.

Prabhupāda: Have you, have you got any knife? Give me. (pause) So you are living in this village?

David Lawrence: London, you mean?

Prabhupāda: You live (in) London.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Why it is painful. That is painful. You, even if you think, shudder, that "I have to die immediately," you'll shudder immediately. It is very painful. It is very painful because as soon as you die, you are again packed up within the womb of the mother to develop another body. And that is also not certain. Nowadays the father, mother is killing the child. So even if you develop a body to come with the expectation to come out, the father, mother kills you, again you have to enter another mother's body. Again you may be killed. This is the position of the sinful man. Because a man is sinful, he shudders. "Oh, again death is coming." So you, you cannot argue... Death is very painful. It is so painful that at the last stage, because the pain is not tolerated, the soul immediately gives up the body. Just like a man commits suicide. It is very painful. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha (BG 13.9). It is painful. Duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. Anudarśanam means if he's a foolish, if he cannot understand, then he should understand described by higher authorities. It is painful. So unless you make a solution that no more birth, there is no question of getting out of the painful condition of material condition. That's not possible.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. So it is a wrong impression that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious one has to give up family relations. No, that's not the fact. Sometimes people think like that, but that is wrong thinking.

Anna Conan Doyle: (indistinct) mixed up...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual understanding does not depend on material conditions, no.

Anna Conan Doyle: That is true, that is true.

Prabhupāda: You may be in any material condition. Still you can develop your spiritual consciousness. That is there. But sometimes we accept a certain position for our personal convenience. That is another thing. But spiritual consciousness is not dependent on any material condition. It is spontaneous. Either he's a householder or a sannyāsī or brahmacārī or business man, or... It doesn't matter. He can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious if he accepts the principles. (break) ...we have got our regulative principles, no illicit sex. So is it very difficult thing? A householder has got his wife. Why he should indulge in illicit sex? It is simply self-control. (aside:) You can keep it here. If somebody comes, you shall give him.

Guru-gaurāṅga: If our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dependent on some material condition which we are in, then our material condition is superior to God consciousness. "Oh, I am a businessman. I cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That means business is more than Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All these things are, they are simply māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). "These rascals, they are working so hard, making gorgeous arrangement. For what? For illusory sense gratification." That sense gratification is also false. Real sense gratification is in Kṛṣṇa and kṛṣṇa-dhāma. Hlādinī, sandhinī, saṁvit. Perverted in this material life. Āhlāda-tapa-kārī miśrayate tair na guṇa-varjite (?). Here āhlāda, pleasure and tapa-kārī, pain, and mixture of āhlāda. This is the position. Tair na guṇa-varjite (?). This kind of pleasure is not in Kṛṣṇa, guṇa-varjite, because He is free from the material condition. So anyway, the human life is only meant for... This is our mission, to teach that "You are simply wasting your time. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is his only business. And next business is, those who cannot directly take to, then those, they should be helping this movement. Therefore we go door-to-door, to connect them, to be linked up with this movement, life member, this member, that member... They are misunderstanding, "They have no other good business. Transcendental fraud, giving us some book and taking money and eating and sleeping. They have got..." They are thinking like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should preach strongly and they should know that we also preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they should know that it is for their benefit we are making them life members, not for our benefit. And that should be the motive.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And what is that? Good morning. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are three stages. First stage of understanding is direct perception, by senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Here, from the material platform, our source of knowledge is direct perception. That is crude, pratyakṣa. It is called pratyakṣa. That is crude knowledge, direct perception. Just like I am seeing the sun. I am getting some idea of the sun, but that is not the perfect idea, although I am seeing it daily. I am seeing just like a disc, but it is very, very big. So my direct perception cannot give me perfect knowledge. The first... Besides that, at our present stage, material condition, we are imperfect because we commit mistake. By direct seeing the sun, I am thinking that it is just like a disc. Then we are illusioned. We, sometimes we accept something for something. Then, with this imperfect knowledge, we try to become teacher. That is cheating. And at the end, our senses are imperfect. So with so many imperfectness, how we can get perfect knowledge? What is your answer?

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (in the car) They are, the so-called scientists, they are taking the effects as cause. That is illusion. Actually the soul has nothing to do with this, anything, material world, but according to the environment he is creating certain material condition. (break) I don't require liquor, but if I want to be intoxicated, then liquor is present.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Since I am conditioned in this material body...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, as soon as I condition, I create an environment which is material. Therefore these so-called scientists, they have no eyes to see the spirit. They take this material condition as the cause of the spirit. And then again, when they find that in spite of presence of these chemicals, the life is not there, they are bewildered. They say, "Yes, we are trying to improve." Therefore they do not find the cells in the dead body.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say the cells are also dead in a dead body.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they do not find it. Cells may be dead or they do not find the cells, whatever it may be, but it was dependent on the life. (break) ...with my so many servants. When I die, the servants also go away. So you cannot say that "He was living because the servants were there." You cannot say.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thoughts actually made by spirit, but it is covered by matter. Therefore in the material condition you can think only of matter. Just like this body is covered by so many material things, but actually, the spirit is covered. So the soul being spirit, so long it is covered by matter, it cannot act spiritually. It is obstructed. Not obstructed. Covered. It cannot be obstructed. If you like, you can get out of the covering of the matter. So matter cannot obstruct. But it is the will of the soul. Therefore it is called taṭastha, marginal.

Prajāpati: When we feel pain or discomfort, that is covering also?

Prabhupāda: That is to the material. Soul has no pain. It is the material covering. Just like this chilliness. We are affected by the body, material body, not the soul. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This pleasure and pain is due to the material covering. Otherwise soul is unaffected. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ: "This puruṣa, the soul, is unaffected by any material condition." The same example as I give, that you have a good car. You are identifying yourself. But you are not the car. You are affected if the car is smashed, because you have got absorption in the car that "This is my car." The other man is not affected. Similarly, due to our absorption, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), "It is my, it is mine," we are suffering.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Just like we all know that "I am not this body." But why you are covering the body? So long you are in material condition, you have to do that. The same example. Although you are not the motorcar, but if there is some accident, you have to take care of it, because you have to work on it. Therefore this body, although I am not this body, I have to work in this material world with this body. That is the vehicle. You cannot neglect it, neither you become identified. This is knowledge. Yuktāhāra-vihāraś ca. That is recommended, yuktāhāra, "as much as necessity." But these people, they are taking the body as everything. They have no information of the soul.

Rūpānuga: They cannot tolerate it. Like the prisoner cannot tolerate being in the prison house without knowledge. They cannot get along.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So our consciousness is affected by our conditioning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like the yogis. They live in the Himalayas without any cloth. They take bath in ice water. They don't feel anything.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. (break) A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. (break) ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness. Our, that slogan is "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Kṛṣṇa is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business. You sold Bhagavad-gītā. (laughs) That is our profit. That's all.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: We are making them bhāgyavān. We are giving them service, how to become bhāgyavān. We are spending our blood, gallons of blood, to make them bhāgyavān. This is the sacrifice of the devotees. Just like you are poor. Somebody, rich man, comes, "All right, take one million dollars from me." You get immediately rich. So it is the devotees' sacrifice that they're becoming... Just like Vāsudeva Datta. He requested Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "My Lord, you have come. Take away all these people, unfortunate people, back to home, back to Godhead. If You think they are so inglorious, they cannot be taken, then give me all their sins to me. I shall suffer. You take them." That is Vaiṣṇava. They are sacrificing everything for these unfortunate rascals. Therefore they are becoming very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). Those who are sacrificing everything for giving, making fortunate these rascals, they become immediately very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Just like, if a rich man gives his money for public welfare, immediately he's recognized by the government, "Yes." He's given some title. Why? Because he has given his possession for the benefit of the public. Similarly, the devotees, they are distributing their possessions to these unfortunate people. Therefore he's immediately recognized. That is the process. But devotee does not want any recognition, but he knows that "My Lord wants this rascal to go back to home, back to Godhead. So let me try my best." He knows the mind of the master; otherwise, why the master comes and canvasses, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)? He has no business, but He wants that "These rascals are suffering in this material condition. They are My part and parcel, My sons. Let Me try." And devotee understands that "My Lord wants it. So let me do it on His behalf." Therefore devotee is so dear. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (end)

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila (CC Madhya 20.117). So it is recommended in the human form of life, first of all training as a brahmacārī, then he may remain as gṛhastha for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years. Suppose I live a hundred years: twenty-five years to become brahmacārī, remain as brahmacārī, and twenty-five years to remain as gṛhastha, family man, and twenty-five years as vānaprastha and twenty-five years as sannyāsa. This is system, Vedic system. Sannyāsa means vānaprastha is the prepāration for sannyāsa, and sannyāsa means completely dedicated to the service of Kṛṣṇa. This is our system. Just like you are spirit soul. Our business is not here. Our business in the spiritual world. Here, by circumstances you have fallen into the material condition, but if you take "This is all-in-all our duty," that is not advised in the śāstra. It is circumstances. We have fallen into, under certain circumstances, so we have to take care of. The real duty is to how to save myself from this material entanglement.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Generally we improve our material condition just to become happy with relatives. When we construct a new house, we invite relatives. So they may come, they will say, "Oh, you have done very nice," and he is also pleased, "My relatives, they have seen." But "If all the relatives are killed, then how it will be possible for me to enjoy the kingdom?" Yeṣām arthe kāṅkṣitam rājyam.

Pradyumna: Bhogāḥ sukhāni ca.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhogāḥ sukhāni ca. Then?

Pradyumna: Ta ime 'vasthitā yuddhe.

Prabhupāda: "They, for whom I wanted this kingdom, they are in my path. I have to kill them. So what kind of fight is this?" Then?

Pradyumna:

prāṇāṁs tyaktvā dhanāni ca

ācāryāḥ pitaraḥ putrās

tathaiva ca pitāmahāḥ

mātulāḥ śvaśurāḥ pautrāḥ

śyālāḥ sambandhinas tathā

Prabhupāda: "I have to kill them, all the religious and family members." Then?

Pradyumna: Etān na hantum icchāmi.

Prabhupāda: "I don't like. I don't want this fight." (laughs)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, if he likes, he can get time because he is not in the factory twenty-four hours. But if one... That is explained, apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any material condition. If anyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is not checked. So there is nothing impediment, provided he wants to become. In any condition of life, sthane sthitaḥ, if he simply hears about Kṛṣṇa then everything is all right. He will gradually catch up everything and adjust things. But if he has no ears to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then it is difficult. Therefore śravaṇam. The first thing is that. The first qualification—he must be eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will come. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇam pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). (break)

Pañcadraviḍa: ...such devotees that they do service, they may be very big, they attract so many people, they are successful, kīrtana and everything, but we know they are not chanting japa. What can we do in that situation? Are we...

Prabhupāda: Situation, he is doing some service. He is doing some service.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our movement is that, that is first-class religious system which teaches how to love God. This is the sum and substance of our movement. There is a Sanskrit statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

If you want to be happy, then you must take to the superior type of religious system which teaches the followers how to love God without any motive, and which is never checked by any material condition. God's name is given here as Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond experimental knowledge. God has got many name according to different situation, and one of the name, for the materialistic person, adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means experimental knowledge. Akṣa means eyes or senses. Beyond sense perception. So we cannot speculate about God, but we can understand about God from authorities. This is the conception of Bhāgavata-dharma. So the human life is especially meant for understanding God. That is the version of the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta philosophy. The Vedānta philosophy teaches, athāto brahma jijñāsā, "Now this human form of body, which is above the lower grades of forms..." There are 8,400,000 forms of body. The soul is transmigrating, evolution. But when we get this human form of body, our main business is to inquire about God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, if somebody inquires what is God, the immediate reply is, God is the source, original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is civilization. Poor girls, they are victims. These rascals are enjoying without any responsibility of marriage. And sex impulse is very strong between thirteen years up to thirty years. So people take advantage of it, and the poor girls become victim. So many anomalies. This is a doggish, demonic civilization. This is not civilization at all. They are not interested. They do not know what is the aim of life. First mistake is that "I am this body." This is doggish. Just like the dog is barking. He is thinking, "I am a big dog here. Don't come." Similarly, if a man thinks, "I am a big American, I am great Englishman," then what is the difference? The dog is also thinking like that. And Vedic civilization says, "No, you are neither dog nor human being." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." This is Vedic civilization. One is being trained up to understand this philosophy, that "I do not belong to this, any material condition. I am Brahman part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Where is that conception?

Bhagavān: Now they have... the other day in the paper that India exploded its first atomic bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and therefore yet it has become very great.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: As the karmīs, they are in the bodily concept of life. They are working day and night trying to improve the material condition of life, not only in this life, but also in the next life. They are performing different ritualistic ceremonies for being promoted to the heavenly planet, like that. So they are all karmīs. Either in this world or in the next world, they are called karmīs. So karmī means they want comfort of this body. And the yogis, they are also on the concept of this body. They are identifying this body as designated Brahman, upādhi-brahma, "Brahman with designation." But their central point is this body. That... This bodily concept of life, so long it continues in the form of karma-yogī or dhyāna-yogī, it can give him relief from the cycle of birth and death and merge into the Brahman effulgence. Brahma-sāyujya-mukti, this is called, technically. The jñānīs also. But that is not final. There is still farther. Even there is brahma-sārūpya-mukti, brahma-sālokya-mukti, brahma-sarṣṭi-mukti. So generally, the yogis and the jñānīs, they aim at brahma-sāyujya-mukti, to merge into the Brahman effulgence. But that is not final. Final is bhakti-yoga. After advancing, if the yogi gets the chance of associating with pure devotee and he engages himself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, that is final perfection.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: There's a theory of the psychologists that—in some ways it's similar to our idea—that people are conditioned, that according to their environment, according to their upbringing, according to their parentage and so on, they have a kind of way of acting and thinking. So their argument is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Condition. Still conditioned, but daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, under the spiritual nature. That is Mahātmā. Mahātmā is not independent. He is also conditioned. So first of all, we must understand that our natural position is to be conditioned. Now, why, where I shall be conditioned? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You condition here. "You become conditioned by Me. Then you will be happy." Those who are thinking that "We shall not be conditioned," they are still in māyā. You cannot be without condition.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). If somebody says, "Oh, it is a very great thing to understand God and to love Him," they are thinking it is not possible. No. The answer is ahaituky apratihatā. It can be learned by anyone. It is not checked by any material condition. If one wants to know what is God and to love Him, the path is open for everyone. It does not require high intelligence, high education, high culture. No. Anyone. The process is śravaṇam, the beginning. One has to hear. One may be fool number one, it doesn't matter. No education, it doesn't matter. Poor, doesn't matter. Black, doesn't matter. White, doesn't matter. You try to hear. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore, Vedic injunction is in order to know, go to the bona fide guru and hear. Ādau gurv-āśrayam, sad-dharma pṛcchāt.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: He said the real disease is the material condition in which we have to suffer birth, death, disease and old age.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these things can be overcome by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Reverend Powell: Umm... Yes, I see. On the point of reading... In this very interesting magazine and this...

Prabhupāda: You find out this verse of Bhagavad-gītā.

Reverend Powell: There was a reference to something you said about plants having a feeling. Some years ago I carried out an experiment at the request of one of our magazines in praying for plants and seeds growing and so on, and there seemed to be a relationship between these prayers for the plants and the opposite, in a negative way, against the plants. And I didn't have an opportunity to carry it out too far, much, but in two experiments, there was apparently a clear indication that the plants responded to prayer. And the peas and the beans in particular, (laughs) there was a significant, a very significant increase in the plants that were...

Prabhupāda: Hmmm. Find out. Jarā-maraṇa-mokṣāya.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, that consciousness is not developed. It is not equal to your consciousness. Just like a child's consciousness is not equal to your consciousness because he's not yet developed, similarly, this human life is the full-fledged... Not full-fledged. Almost full demonstration of consciousness. We have to utilize it for higher understanding. From material conditions, the consciousness develops. On account of loss of consciousness, they become godless. So it requires time. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is to help them to develop consciousness very quickly. Yes. Otherwise, it will take millions of years. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścit yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). We are helping people to develop that original consciousness very quickly. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: These cells, the micro-cells, they divide. They... Just like...

Prabhupāda: Let them do whatever they do, but still, Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35)**. (break) ...your undeveloped conscious, more you are servant of nature. The mo... As you have got less developed consciousness,... Just like the dog and the girl, she is developed consciousness. Therefore the dog, less conscious, it is serving. Similarly, if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, then you have to serve māyā.

Bahulāśva: Kali-dāsa. (japa)

Prabhupāda: To serve māyā means to accept this material body. māyā will give you a dress according to your karma, and you'll have to work. This will continue.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that "These rascals are working like madmen." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. And always doing mischievous, sinful activities. So this is not good. Because he does not know that for his mischievous sinful activities, he has got a body which is always miserable. So it will continue, to accept miserable body. Therefore it is not good. A doctor can see that "This man is infecting this disease and he will suffer." But the rascal man cannot understand that "I am infecting something and I'll have to suffer." (break) The karmīs, they are trying to become happy by improving this material condition. But he does not know that he is becoming implicated more and more. Because he'll have to accept the body. And there are so many varieties of body. (devotees laugh at something) This is childish. That, our Girirāja took some money.

Bali Mardana: Who?

Prabhupāda: Girirāja.

Bali Mardana: Girirāja.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: No, no, "dies" means the body dies. The soul does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body annihilates... Body becomes old. Just like this cloth. I am using it, but when it will be old, no more useful, then I throw it away. I get another dress. This body is like that. Soul is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. It does not die, it does not take birth, but because he is in material condition, therefore he has to change the material body because no material thing is permanent. Therefore the aim of life should be how to avoid this material body. That is real business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is only business, how to stop acceptance of this material body. And that is very clearly and simply stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo janāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). We can do that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you are not going to accept any more material body. That means there is no more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more, and what is called, old age.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: This is our position. God is maintainer and we are maintained. God is predominator and we are predominated. This is our position. We are not equal to God, neither over God. We are always subordinate. And why you are subordinate? Because He maintains us. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He is the supreme being and we are subordinate being. We are maintained by God. That is Vedic instruction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) This is understanding of God. He is nitya, He's eternal, and we are also eternal because we are samples of God. God is great and perfect and in our this position we are subordinate, and in material condition we are imperfect. So even if we become perfect, still we remain subordinate. Therefore our position is always to abide by the orders of God. This is religion. When we abide by the orders of God, then we are religious. When we do not, then we are demons or Satan. (speaks with arriving guests in Hindi, inviting them to come in and asking whether they have been to the temple in Vṛndāvana) Religion means to remain faithful to God and abide by His order. That is religion. (end)

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all this type of false religion." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, only one. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is in trouble of this material condition. And our difficulty is that when we want to convince another person about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that "I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan, so they are trying to proselytize me." That is the difficulty.

Ambassador: No, it was not that I was really saying. Rather that what I have heard from others comes to the same thing as you are saying.

Prabhupāda: Others, if they try for the same thing, then it is all right, because that type of religion or that system of religion is first-class which teaches for this thing, that "Come to platform of God consciousness and love God." Then that is first-class system of religion. It doesn't matter what is the designation. But where is that happening?

Ambassador: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in the world under many influences, I think...

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guṇa-politics and improvement of material condition. So we have to cut down this tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, come to the sattva-guṇa. Then he'll not be disturbed by these lusty desires and greediness. Then he'll be happy. Sthita-sattve prasīdati. When he comes to the sattva-guṇa, now he has to make further progress, sattva-guṇa. And the progress means, being situated in sattva-guṇa if he advances in devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he surpasses all the material qualities. That is perfection of life.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We have got this material body and spiritual soul. That is in this material condition there is distinction between the spirit and matter. As soon as the spirit goes from this material body, it has no value.

Jesuit: No life, true.

Prabhupāda: It is matter only, lump of matter, combination of matter. Therefore the spirit is important even in this life.

Jesuit: Oh, I see that, of course.

Prabhupāda: Yes, spirit is important. But God is fully spirit, He has no material quality. Yes. We have got, in this material condition, difference between the matter and spirit, but God has not so, such thing. He is whole spirit. That is the difference between God...

Jesuit: And also, as a result, the human, you, I, all these, we're all persons separate from one another, distinct from one another, and distinct from God, who is a separate person.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, we admit that.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means better conscience. He can consider so many things. "Why I am dying? I do not want to die. Why there are so many miserable condition?" We are covering because there is miserable condition of this winter. I don't want to suffer from cold. Therefore I am covered. So this is struggle for existence. The human being can understand that why there is struggle? Why not I am happy naturally? This question must be there. Otherwise he is cat and dog. The dogs do not inquire all these things. Then if you have no such power to inquire and understand, then you are no better than dog. And if you are happy to remain cats and dogs, that is your business. But a real human being, he will never be happy. That is human being. Everyone is trying to improve his material condition. Therefore the motor car is going here and there, here and there. Why they are trying? Let them remain satisfied in any condition. The modern economic law is that create new necessities of life.

That is the way of western civilization. They are creating motor cars every year, and the bank is prepared to give you loan so that you may work day and night. Take loan from the bank and purchase a motor car and repay him by working so their machine will go on. This is the policy, economic policy. Is it not? Yes. Keep them working, busy. But what is the purpose of this working? Now, when death is there, everything is finished. And everything will be finished, for that working? Just see their knowledge. Everything will be finished and for this purpose I have to work so hard?

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is for the aquatics, the animals in the water. The vast sea, there are so many animals. Then, from the water, the trees are coming out. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way evolutionary process is going on. But all of them, living entities, and part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. So by the evolutionary process they come to the human form of life. Now there is developed consciousness. Now, the human being has to decide which way he has to go, again to the lower species of life or higher forms of life. The higher forms of life are there in the upper planetary system.

Their duration of life, material standard of living, very, very comfortable, thousand times better than here. So Kṛṣṇa says that if you like to go to the higher planetary system, you can go there. That it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you cultivate yourself for going to the higher planetary system... But first of all we have to understand that we are eternal, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are simply changing body. This is material condition. Either lower grade of bodies or higher grade of bodies, but we have to change. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Just like we are changing our bodies from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then old age, similarly, when this body will be finished, no more usable, then we'll have to accept another body. But we... The present civilization is so foolish they do not know—even big, big professor; I have talked—that there is life after death. They do not know, although it is very evident. That they have no such knowledge, even common sense.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This is their position. This is their position. Just like we are in this car, but we know it, that any moment there can be accident. So how we can be without anxiety? In the material world, on account of this material condition, we are not going to stay here. There must be anxiety. But if we close our eyes, that is different thing. Otherwise it is full of anxiety. (break) "... be free from anxiety, then surrender to Me. What I say, do it." That he will not do. They will manufacture their own way of life. They must be in anxiety. They will never hear what Kṛṣṇa says. And our propaganda is that "Just you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and you will be happy." This is our... That they will not do.

Ambarīṣa: ...'60, 1960. When did they start to go to the moon?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambarīṣa: I think President Kennedy started the program in 1960.

Prabhupāda: Sending dog first of all?

Ambarīṣa: Yeah, mice and then monkeys and...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...desert. But here we find, within the desert, petrol. Why not get petrol there and solve your power problem. Can I not raise this question?

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yoga-kṣemam. Yes, that's all right, yoga-kṣemam. Read.

Upendra: Translation: But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form—to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.

Purport: One who is unable to live for a moment without Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot but think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours, being engaged in devotional service by hearing, chanting, remembering, offering prayers, worshiping, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, rendering other services, cultivating friendship and surrendering fully to the Lord. Such activities are all auspicious and full of spiritual potencies; indeed, they make the devotee perfect in self-realization. Then his only desire is to achieve the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called yoga. By the mercy of the Lord, such a devotee never comes back to this material condition of life. Kṣema refers to the merciful protection of the Lord. The Lord helps the devotee to achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness by yoga, and when he becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious the Lord protects him from falling down to a miserable conditioned life.

Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything has got proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list, how to use your, this anger, greediness, like that. He says, kamaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. We are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification. The same desire, same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are writing books, keeping night, whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But we are doing for Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, another author may be writing whole night for some sex literature. So the labor for producing a sex literature and the labor for producing a Bhāgavata is the same. It may be same ambition that "Let me become a big author. My name will be very popular." But one thing is being done for Kṛṣṇa; one thing is being done for sense gratification. So that propensity of becoming a reputed author or the labor, this, same, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Similarly, you take anything, if you use it for... Just like Hanumān. He became angry upon Rāvaṇa. He set fire in his city, destroyed the whole city. He showed his anger, but not for his personal sense gratification. He wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of asking God to give us our food. It is already there. We should not waste our time to ask God for our sense gratification. That arrangement is already there. We shall try to know God and try to love Him. That is the business of human form of life. If we are missing that occupational duty, how to learn how to love God... Our philosophy... Or this is the philosophy, that that is the first quality religious system which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). And if we learn how to love God without any motive, nobody can check our love of God. And if we reach that platform, then we become actually happy. God is the supreme proprietor of everything, He is friend of everyone, and He is the enjoyer. We, being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God how He is pleased. Our... Just like part and parcel of our body, this finger, it is always engaged in serving the body according to the desire of the person. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God as He wants service from us. This is perfection. If the finger or any part of my body cannot give service to the whole body, it is to be understood that the part is diseased. Similarly, when we do not give service to God, that is our material condition, or diseased condition, or miserable condition. And if we learn how to love God, how to serve Him, that is our healthy condition.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means God, and we are all connected with Kṛṣṇa, God. God is the original father. Therefore we have got intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa. So we have forgotten it, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is my connection with Him, what is the aim of life. All these questions there are. And when one becomes interested with such questions, he is called Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Sandy Nixon: How did Kṛṣṇa consciousness develop?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is already there in everyone's core of heart, but due to one's material conditional life, he has forgotten it. So this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra means to revive that consciousness. It is already there. Just like a few days ago these American, European boys and girls, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. But now you have seen yesterday how their whole, that procession, throughout the whole procession, how they were chanting and dancing in ecstasy. So do you think that is artificial? No. Artificially nobody can chant and dance for hours together. That means the awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It was there; by the bona fide process, it is now awakened.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is actually... The whole goal of modern psychology is to make people adjust to the fact that they must stay in this material world and that if you have some desire to leave the material world, they will tell you you are crazy. "No, no. Now you must adjust more again to the material condition."

Bahulāśva: They teach you to accept the frustrations of life.

Prabhupāda: Why frustration? You are big, big scientist. You cannot solve?

Dharmādhyakṣa: They cannot solve because they have the same problems.

Prabhupāda: The same logic, "Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing. That's all. This is their education. Education means atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, the ultimate solution of all unhappiness. That is education, not that after coming to some extent, "No, you can die happily." And what is duhkha, unhappiness? That is presented by Kṛṣṇa: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). These are your unhappiness. Try to solve it. And that they are carefully avoiding. They cannot stop death, neither birth, nor old age, nor disease. And during the short period of life, birth and death, they are making big, big buildings, and next time he is becoming one rat within the buildings. (laughter) Nature. You cannot avoid the nature's law. As you cannot avoid death, similarly, nature will give you another body. Become a tree in this university. Stand up for five thousand years. You wanted to be naked. Now nobody will object. You stand here naked.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

If Yogananda thinks like that—"Only rich man is able to practice yoga"—that is wrong. A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme. And the Supreme can be connected by anyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). According to Vedic philosophy, one becomes poor on account of his sinful activities. So pāpa-yoni... So although he has taken birth in a degraded family or poor family, spiritually he is pure. Simply one has to revive his spiritual consciousness. And that cannot be checked by any material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual self-realization cannot be checked by any material condition. So why? Rather, opulent condition is not favorable for practicing yoga. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot practice yoga.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: God consciousness does not depend on distribution of food. It requires cultural education. It does not mean that one who has got enough food, he is God conscious. The food distribution is not one of the conditions for becoming God conscious. That is wrong project. "If people are given sufficient food, they will become God conscious"—that is not the fact. But people advance this theory, that "We are now economically distressed. We cannot turn our attention to God consciousness." That is a wrong plea. God consciousness does not depend on any material condition.

Ṛṣabhadeva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, earlier you had said that nature provides each species its foodstuff. But in other species other than man we see that it's immediately obtainable. But man has to work for it, and he has to wait for the fruits of his labor. Why is that nature's arrangement?

Prabhupāda: Nature's arrangement... In this material world you cannot eat without working. Even if you are lion-lion is considered to be the most powerful animal—he has to capture one animal. He cannot think that "Let me sleep, and the animal will come automatically in my mouth." It is not possible. You have to work; this is the material world. So that work is simple work. If you have got land... Everyone has got land. You just work little, and it will produce your food grains. And the food grains will give food to the animal and man. The animal, cow, he will eat the grass, and you will take the grains. Why should you kill the animal? You haven't got to arrange for his food. You produce paddy. The plant, when it is dried, it is good for animals, and you take the grains. Why should you kill him?

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Spark. Yes. Fire, big fire and spark fire—both of them fire, but one is big and one is very small. So our relationship with God is eternal. At the present moment, on account of contact with this material energy, we have forgotten our relationship with God. Therefore our life is problematic. We are facing so many problems. So again, if we revive our original consciousness, then we shall become happy. So this is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, the process how to revive our original consciousness. There are different processes, but at the present moment people are very, very fallen. This is called the age of Kali—means most fallen. Most fallen. The so-called material advancement is not the solution because God is eternal, we are eternal, and in the material condition we are changing our body. On account of our ignorance we are thinking "I am this body," but I am not this body. I am that spark, spirit, part and parcel of God.

Faill: The body is just a vehicle.

Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You just learn it first of all. Vedic culture is that we are living entities. Some way or other, we have fallen in this material world and encaged in this body or other body. So material world means the spirit soul is wandering throughout the universe under material conditions. And the Vedic knowledge is to get him out of this material condition and take him again to the spiritual world. This is Vedic knowledge.

Guest: And bhakti...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga is the direct method. There are many methods recommended. Karma, jñāna, yoga, and at last bhakti. They are different steps of the same staircase going upwards, and bhakti-yoga is the topmost level.

Guest: And bhakti is a devotional surrender.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Spiritual world means there the Supreme Lord is supreme, nobody else. And all others, they are engaged in His service. This is spiritual world. Here, in the material world, everyone is trying to be master. In the spiritual world there is no such attempt. They know the master is only God and all others, they are servants. That is the difference between material and spiritual.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.

Guru-kṛpā: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Kṛṣṇa in such conditions? This is a very...

Acyutānanda: The original sin.

Sudāmā: Why we are envious,

Guru-kṛpā: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpā: How is it that...

Prabhupāda: That is independence. Tha

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is guarantee. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Because he is devotee, for material condition he could not remember, but Kṛṣṇa remembers, "Yes," that "he has done so much for Me."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, otherwise...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Otherwise, it's just mechanical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mechanical

Prabhupāda: No. That is.... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that.... He was giving the condition. Then, when Arjuna was little disturbed, so He said immediately, "Arjuna, you have no fear." Did you not read this portion?

Pañca-draviḍa: Then.... Then that verse, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam (BG 8.6), is for...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is general. But a devotee, because Kṛṣṇa has taken charge of him, even he does not remember Kṛṣṇa, still, Kṛṣṇa is there.

Trivikrama: "I carry what you lack..."

Jayapatākā: Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the cause of remembrance and forgetfulness."

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is general. But a devotee, because Kṛṣṇa has taken charge of him, even he does not remember Kṛṣṇa, still, Kṛṣṇa is there.

Trivikrama: "I carry what you lack..."

Jayapatākā: Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the cause of remembrance and forgetfulness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally devotee dies remembering Kṛṣṇa, generally. But even if for material condition he cannot, then Kṛṣṇa is taken charge.

Pañca-draviḍa: What was the arrangement with Bharata Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: And there is no question of hopelessness, no. We have to do our duty very seriously. Then everything is all right.

Pañca-draviḍa: So with Bharata Mahārāja, that was special arrangement?

Prabhupāda: No. It was.... It was punishment. He became so much, I mean, attached with the animal that he forgot his duty in devotional service. That is stated. Forgot. He neglected. Therefore he was punished, but he remembered that "I did it." You cannot neglect your duty. Then Kṛṣṇa is always with you. (break) ...way, a soldier is dying in duty, immediately the government takes charge of the whole family. So that is.... Why not Kṛṣṇa? (break) ...kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālana. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said. You know this song? Avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa viśvāsa pālana.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, if.... You see, this body is so made that it must end, but before ending, you must be competently Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, next life, you become permanent in life, in knowledge, in blissfulness. That is required.

Carol Jarvis: Many people find it very difficult to reconcile the spiritual way of life in the Kṛṣṇa movement with the great financial resources the movement also has. Why do you need any great financial...?

Prabhupāda: It doesn't.... The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement does not depend on any material condition, any material condition.

Carol Jarvis: But you make a lot of money out of the sales of your books, etc.; there is begging in the street each day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there are many beggars. They do not get money. We get money. We are not beggars. We are giving books, knowledge. Do you think we are beggars?

Carol Jarvis: If I could use the example, perhaps, of your temple, which has a lot of very rich material things in it. I wonder what significance that plays in your spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: So what do you mean by spiritual and material? Do you know the distinction? Then I'll show you spiritual. And do you know?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, na tat-prayāsaḥ kartavyam. This prayāsa, endeavor for economic development, na kartavyam, don't do it. Here is a revolution against this modern civilization. They are simply after economic development, and here it is condemned. It is condemned that this kind of endeavor is simply wasting the balance of our life. If one is intelligent, he sees that "I have got, say, ten thousand dollars in the bank balance, now I must utilize it properly so that it may not be spent," that is intelligence. Similarly, we have begun our death from the date of birth. Daily, every moment we are, our balance is being decreased. So therefore we should be intelligent. So long the balance is there, let me utilize it properly by which I can be really benefited. So the ideal of my benefit is that I'm suffering in this material condition of life, to stop this conditional life, to get freedom life. That is the aim of life. And that freedom can be achieved only by going back to home, back to Godhead. Not any other way. You cannot get the freedom of life here in this material.... That is not possible. Although you are trying for it. Everyone is trying to.... (aside:) Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja can come in. Yes. So without endeavor for this purpose, if we are simply trying to develop our economic condition, that is.... What is that? Āyur-vyayaḥ? What is that word?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The situation is not favorable. That is the proof that everything is a living entity. If you put the seed... The seed is not the tree, but when you put the seed on the ground, if the situation is favorable, the particular living entity who has to take the form of that tree, he comes, and then it grows. That is the proof. Just like sex. It is not the secretion of the man and the woman. It creates a situation so that the soul may come and live there, and then there is pregnancy. It is not the matter. This is the proof.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Does that mean to some extent that the soul is dependent on a material condition?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi (BG 13.22). Find out this verse, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi.

Hari-śauri: Just like when the body is no good, the soul has to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the proof there is soul.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi

bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān

kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo-sya

sad-asad-yoni-janmasu

(BG 13.22)

"The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil amongst various species."

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: If he wants to remain in this material world, creates a situation and continues his desire, then he has to take... And when he understands that "To live in this material condition is very troublesome. Why shall I live here?" then he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and he goes back to home, back to... And so long he desires, "No, why not? If I remain in this situation, I'll be happy," then he'll have to get a body. Nature will give him all chances: "Get this body." If one is very pleased to take raw flesh, "All right, why artificially? Take this body, tiger." That's all. Nature is... God is so kind. Before we were talking of God's mercifulness, so if you are thinking that it is very happy life to eat, without any discrimination, anything, so immediately God orders nature, "You give him body of a pig. He can eat anything, even up to stool. Give him this body." Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This yantra, this vehicle, this body, is given to him: "Yes, now you can eat anything, up to stool." And he is very pleased. He wanted it. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He does not hesitate or feel any inconvenience. God is there, even within the heart of the pig, "My dear pig, you wanted a body like this. You have now got it, now eat, here is stool. You eat." And he enjoys. So the living entity within this material world, he wanted to enjoy, "I am the monarch of all I survey." So God gives him all facility: "Whatever you want, you do." Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad yoni-janmasu. He wanted it, therefore he gets different types of body. That is transmigration. But still He comes and teaches, "Rascal, why you are suffering in this way? Give up this plan; surrender to Me immediately." But he is making plan only. Just like in your country, there is everything opulent. The hippies are making plan, "We shall be happy in this way."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear. Ordinarily destiny cannot be checked. Therefore instead of wasting your time for change your economic condition or material destiny, you employ this energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That cannot be checked. Your so-called... So many men we can see, they are working so hard, does it mean that everyone has become a Ford, a Rockefeller? Why? Everyone is trying his best. Mr. Ford was to become rich man, his destiny was there, he became rich man. But does it mean that other man who has worked so hard like Ford, he has become like a Ford? No. This is practical. You cannot change your destiny simply by working hard like ass (?) and dogs. No. But you can utilize your energy for improving your Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, you can become a devotee even if you are a government servant. It does not hamper.

Guest (2): So I can hear and I can chant and I can pray and I can serve and I can do all those and still...

Prabhupāda: You become a devotee. Any material condition does not hamper your devotional life. Ahaituky apratihatā. If any condition of life you remain a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, that is success.

Devotee (4): Must initiation be there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Initiation must be there. Otherwise, how you'll be guided? But it is not necessary, but if you can cent percent engagement in Kṛṣṇa, that is better. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was a minister, so he resigned and became cent percent servitor of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. But if it is not possible, it does not hamper.

Guest (2): But I can retire in twenty days, and if that is possible, then I can make one more good step.

Prabhupāda: Yes, oh, yes. So twenty days you are going. That means compulsory retirement?

Guest (2): No, my... I can retire or not retire. I can work until eight more years as a servant of the government. And at the same time...

Prabhupāda: Don't retire sentimentally. Yes, don't retire.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, we are pushing on this movement all over the world. It is not that this particular place is important, but our interest is that Western people... They are so intelligent. They are very systematically making improvement in material condition of life. They should know also that spiritual life is more important than material life. Because, for example, we are combination of matter and spirit. So long the spirit soul is there, our body is very important. Otherwise, without spirit, the body has no importance. Everyone can understand. Similarly, all this material advancement of civilization is very good, provided there is spiritual understanding also. Otherwise it is decoration of the dead body. A dead body decorated has no value, but when there is life, then the body is valuable. So material advancement of material civilization means decoration of the dead body. But when there is spiritual understanding, then there is importance of everything.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But the mosquito is mosquito, and the king is king, although they are sitting on the same place.

Bali-mardana: Both sitting on the throne.

Rāmeśvara: Everyone is here on this planet. Some people are affected by the material conditions...,

Prabhupāda: He's mosquito.

Rāmeśvara: He's the bug.

Prabhupāda: This is the best example. On the throne, both of them are sitting, but king's consciousness and mosquito's consciousness are different. It is not because they are on the same throne, therefore of the same conscious. Mosquito's business is to bite, and king's business is to rule over.

Rāmeśvara: Another important thing to note about this painting is that the material world is said to be a reflection of the spiritual world. Just like here in this universe there are many planets, similarly there are many planets in the spiritual world. But it is a perverted reflection.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, even we are claiming to be very materially advanced, we do not know everything of the material world. Just like so big universe, material, what do you know about that? We have no knowledge practically. Even of the material world we have no sufficient knowledge, what to speak of the spiritual world.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is not..., it is the culture, it is the culture. Because you are suffering under material conditions and you are struggling for existence, that means you are struggling to get liberty. So this is the liberty. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Mām upetya, find out this.

Hari-śauri: Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9)?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri:

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti so 'rjuna

(BG 4.9)

"One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is liberty. But they do not know it. They simply make a show that they are scholar of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know how to get liberty. Neither they are interested. They want to stay here and subjected to the natural material condition, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). There is another verse, mām aprāpya? Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, in the Ninth Chapter, I think. Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā... (BG 9.3).

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So this institution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we have started. Now we have opened this center. I am very glad that you are coming here, but study the science of Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain blind. The science of Kṛṣṇa means science of God. The human life is meant for understanding the science of God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. "This human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth—Brahman." That Brahman, Para-brahman, is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, when Arjuna studied Bhagavad-gītā, his conclusion was... He addressed immediately, "Kṛṣṇa," paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Bhavān. "Yourself..." So don't waste your time even by a minute. Try to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material condition life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?"

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharman bhagavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ purusaḥ. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Stop further implication." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What is the next verse?

Jayatīrtha: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Prabhupāda: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Jayatīrtha Prabhupāda: Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam...

Jayatīrtha: Yāvat kriyās tāvad idam mano vai karmātmakam yena śarīra-bandhaḥ

Prabhupāda: So long one will remain a karmī, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.

Meeting with Italian Printer -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Why difficult? Obstinacy. It is not difficult, it is obstinacy. "I'll not take," obstinacy. It is not difficult, it is obstinacy. A child can take.

Translator: He says for a child it is actually simple because he's pure and can accept everything we present to him. But he says for us who are older and already engaged in so many contaminated activities...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question. It is apratihatā. It cannot be checked by old age or any material condition. He can accept.

Translator: (translating) It's not up to me, though.

Prabhupāda: Apratihatā.

Translator: He says we're always forcing him to take prasādam. This is not freedom. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, this child has to be forced to do something. For his interest.

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda once gave the analogy sometimes when the horse is sick, the doctor takes the pill in the hand, he puts it down the throat.

Prabhupāda: No, we are prepared. Just like horse is not prepared to take the medicine. But four men force him to take the medicine. Nobody was crying for this edition of Bhāgavata, but we are forcing, "You must read. You must take." We are printing and forcing everyone. French edition, Bhāgavata's edition, they were not dying for this book, but this is our force.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is family relation. Ṛktha-haraiḥ svajanākhya-dasyubhiḥ. Ṛktha-haraiḥ(?). Their only business is that you earn money with hard labor, and they'll take away. Their business is to take away. And they have got legal right. Dāya, dāya-bhāga. The son has got the right, legal right, to take whatever the father has accumulated. Nobody will say "No, you cannot take." No, he has the right, and so far wife is concerned, her business is to extend your condition, material condition. When one is alone, brahmacārī, he has no condition, he lives freely. But as soon as he's married, so many obligations. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8), must have a nice house, must have good land, good source of income. And then if you have got house and good source of income, then you call friends to oblige them. Then get children, give them education, put them in nice condition of life, get them married, again grandchildren, and so on, so on. That means these material conditions which have embarrassed me, that business is very nicely done by the wife for increasing my embarrassment. Nowadays nobody takes responsibility of family. That is another thing. But marriage means to take so many responsibilities. That is another condition of material life. Then home, people are sacrificing so much for home, for country, for nation. That also will be finished with the end of this body. When the body's ended, you are no more Iranian or American or Indian. You do not know what you are. Even if you have got attachment for the country, you can become a tree in that country. If you become animal, you are slaughtered in that country. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), even though you have got attachment, on account of changing the body your situation is changing. So in this way Bali Mahārāja analyzes the whole thing, that "What is the use of all this?" Is he right or wrong, his analysis?

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param

(BG 18.54)

Unless we come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of justice, morality, peace. It is not possible. They may attempt in different ways, by their mental speculative process, but actually it will never come to be true. They are all trying: the scientists, philosophers, politicians, religionists, to make some adjustment, but that is not possible. We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, bit still there will be some trouble, sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don't feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But I did not know. Mukunda suggested this is good place, all right, live here. And actually happened to be good place. Gradually, all my disciples came. So I had no disturbance. I was living in the Bowery Street, and on my door these bums were lying with urine and wine bottles and everything. Still, they were so respectful. When I'll come, "Yes, you can enter. Please." (laughter) I had no quarrel with them. They were very kind. They welcomed me, they opened the door, "Please go." They also knew that "He's a harmless..." So, platform, if you remain on the spiritual platform, this material condition cannot hamper you. Ahaituky apratihatā. Then yenātmā suprasīdati, in that condition you can execute. First of all, we have to ascertain on which platform we shall stand. And if you want to stand on the spiritual platform, nothing can check it. That is not conditioned. So why not stand directly to the spiritual platform and make you life successful? That is our preaching. People in general, they do not know the importance of the spiritual platform. Therefore they prefer to stay in the material platform. They have no sufficient education.

Ali: Why couldn't spirits grow without taking this body? Why couldn't spirits grow in the spiritual world without taking this material body.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya

māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue. Because the spirit soul is not the bone and skin. The Darwin's theory, he is putting that the bone is changing. The bone is not changing. You get different bones in different life. I am changing my position. I am going from one apartment to another apartment. The apartment not changing. I am changing apartment. That is the difference between Darwin's theory and our theory. They are thinking the apartment is becoming another apartment. No. The apartments are already there. I am entering different apartments as I can pay for it. That is karma. According to my karma, I am sometimes residing in one apartment, in another apartment. This is going on. The Darwin's theory, the apartment is changing.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda;: Yes. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. So this finger, I say, "Finger come here. Itch here," so it is doing that. And if it is... If it cannot do, then it is diseased. If there is some painless, painfulness or some sore, then immediately I cannot do it. So that means I am part and parcel of God. If I cannot serve God, then I am diseased. That is material condition. So material condition... Suppose this finger is diseased. So you poke up, applying some ointment and going to the doctor. This is one business. And when it is cured, when it is actually engaged in service, that is healthy state. So this social work without serving God is just like applying ointment to the diseased part of the... It has no value, practical value. If it... It has got value, provided it is cured, to serve the whole body. So if the finger is not so cured to serve the whole body, then it remains diseased. You go on applying ointment; it has no use. Similarly, to serve humanity means if you can raise him to the consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, then, then it is right. And if you keep him in ignorance—you go on all kinds of human service—it is all useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If by serving humanity, you cannot raise him to the standard of understanding he's part and parcel of God and his main business to serve Kṛṣṇa, then it is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam. So our service to the humanity should be... He is in forgetfulness. He does not know what is his position. If you can raise him to the position that he is part and parcel of God... Unless he comes to the position of serving God, his material condition will continue. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. So, dharmasyāsya janma, parantapa. Aśraddadhānāḥ... Like that. Then that service is useless. If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is... There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That's all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you'll get? He is under wrong impression that "I am Christian," and he's brought into another wrong impression—"I am Hindu." But he's neither Hindu nor Christian. He's servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit? A dog is also thinking, "I am dog." And if somebody is thinking, "I am Hindu," so where is the difference? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one thinks, "This body, I am"—either Hindu or Muslim or dog or cat, if one is thinking in that way, that "I am this body,"—sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's animal.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: That job... They will be very soon jobless. Don't worry. (laughs) They will come. They will be obliged to come. Now they have got job, but as the days are advancing in Kali-yuga, they'll be jobless.

Hari-śauri: So we can expect that material conditions are going to become very much worse than this.

Prabhupāda: They may come or not. We don't care for it. Let us establish an ideal society. That is the...

Jagadīśa: If someone who is well-off wants to become a devotee, shall we encourage him to give up all of his material well-being or shall we ask him to instead put a temple in his house and encourage him how to make his house into a temple and make his whole family Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: And what is your material well-being? Everyone is going hundred miles for well-being. Is that well-being? Either they may go by motorcar or by train... And as soon as there is—what is called?—bottle-neck, they become very much disturbed: "How to go to the office?" Where is well-being?

Rāmeśvara: Say, the Christian religion... The Christian religion has millions of followers.

Prabhupāda: But what is the meaning of these followers? They do not understand anything. Simply by rubber-stamp they are follower.

Rāmeśvara: But if we can get a mass following, it is only possible by preaching to them little bit at a time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your ideal life, ideal teaching, you'll get. This Christian or any religion, what is the use of that? It's not at all religion. It's simply rubber-stamp.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: They are luscious(?) that... (break) Just like a tuberculosis patient. To him doctor says that "You don't have sex life. That will bring your death." Does it mean sex life is bad? The tuberculosis person, for him it is bad, not for the sane man, not for the healthy man. So when sex life is advised to..., forbidden, that is for the diseased condition. But who is never diseased—he is perfect—for him there is no forbidding of sex life. So you do not understand that in this material condition you are suffering only. You have no brain. Therefore morality, immorality, good, bad, there are so many things. But when one is perfect, healthy, for him all the activities of life is perfect. Just like a physician advised me, "You don't take salt." Does it mean salt is bad? I am in a particular condition of this kidney trouble or liver trouble. For me salt is bad. But does it mean salt bad?

Gurukṛpā: No. It's very good.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, sex life for you is bad, not for Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa like you, mūḍha.

Gargamuni: Yes. They try to equate themselves.

Gurukṛpā: Sex-monger

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is worst. Because I am spirit soul, I am now imprisoned with this material body. It is my unnatural state, and I am eternal, and because I have accepted this material body I have to undergo birth, death, old age and disease. So that is my effort, how to get out of this material body and remain in my original spiritual identity. That is our whole propaganda. We think material atmosphere is our imprisonment, suffering. Material body means suffering. Otherwise I am eternal, blissful, full with knowledge. That is my position. But because I have been impact... (aside:) Again you have the same disease. Attention, you attend, draw there. Don't do that. Very bad habit. Immediately you sit down, you do it. You cannot check it. So actually this is our punishment. This is māyā. That example I have explained this morning, very nice verse, that the moon in the sky is reflected in the water, in hundreds of pots of water, and the wind is agitating the water, and the moon is also agitated—sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes... The moon is fixed up, but the reflection in the pot making him different. Similarly, I am spirit soul, and I have been captured or I have voluntarily surrendered to this material world, and it is being agitated by the mind, so I am taking this shape, that shape, that shape, this shape, eight million four hundred... That is my trouble. My nature is to be fixed up, always illuminating, but circumstantially I am being agitated by mind, and working with my mind, I am accepting this body, that body, this body, that. So this is very troublesome. Those who have no knowledge, no brain, they are satisfied with this material condition, agitated condition, and driven by the thinking, feeling, willing of the mind. This is very dangerous. We want to get out. This is psychology.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyone. And in some day he will not be there, somebody will come. That is the history of the whole world. But that will not benefit the human society, politics. It is useless. This knowledge will help make the solution. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). We are suffering in this material condition, and He is delivering from this. That is real upakāra. That's the repetition of history, politics.

Mr. Koshi: But it has been going on for quite some time.

Prabhupāda: It is going on, but time immemorial. That is not the solution.

Mr. Koshi: They have seen to have more control over people than others. When a person is empowered, his actions can affect so many people.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of people?

Mr. Koshi: Cats and dogs.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Śva-viḍ-varāha. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as dogs, camels, asses and hogs. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. (break) The leader of hogs, dogs, camels and asses. Our civilization is brahminical, brāhmaṇa. That is wanted.

Mr. Koshi: Is that good or bad?

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation: Previously all the great sages rendered service unto the Personality of Godhead due to His existence above the three modes of material nature. They worshiped Him to become free from material conditions and thus derive the ultimate benefit. Whoever follows such great authorities is also eligible for liberation from the material world.

Purport: The purpose of performing religion is neither to profit by material gain nor to get the simple knowledge of discerning matter from spirit. The ultimate aim of religious performances is to release oneself from material bondage and regain the life of freedom in the transcendental world, where the Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Person. Laws of religion, therefore, are directly enacted by the Personality of Godhead, and except for the mahājanas, or the authorized agents of the Lord, no one knows the purpose of religion. There are twelve particular agents of the Lord who know the purpose of religion, and all of them render transcendental service unto Him. Persons who desire their own good may follow these mahājanas and thus attain the supreme benefit.

Prabhupāda: Read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next verse?

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. Here is... So this is the aim, that one should know Kṛṣṇa. And the human life is meant for that purpose. That is the distinction between animal life and human life. Therefore the next verse is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Find out.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa... (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). Generally people take to religion for improving economic condition. It is going on. They go to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." And they'll go to the temple: "O mother Kālī, give me this. O father Śiva, give me this." So they take it for economic development, dharma. But that is is not the proper way. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya. Dharma should be executed for stopping this material condition of life, apavarga. Pavarga. This material life is pavarga. Pa means pariśrama, hard labor. And pha means phena, so hard labor that foams comes. Pa, pha, ba. And still it is baffled, vyartha. Bha: and always fear. And ma means death. So pa, pha, ba, bha, ma. So dharma means to stop this pa, pha, ba, bha, ma.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is apa...?

Prabhupāda: Varga. It is pa-varga. There are five vargas, ka-varga, ca-varga, and the pa-varga. Very scientific. A-pa-varga. And that is the meaning. But these rascals, they have taken to increase the pa-varga, that śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). The basic principle of dharma is wrong. Dharma is meant for stopping this pa-varga. And they are increasing this pa-varga. And the next word?

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I'll treat myself. Let the kavirājas come. And makara-dhvaja... One after another, they will make the things complicated. What is your opinion? Hm?

Bhavānanda: We all feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that your direction is absolutely perfect. It is coming directly from the spiritual platform. Therefore anything which you tell us to do, we want to do, and we have full faith and confidence that it is absolutely correct. But we don't have full faith and confidence in people who are materially conditioned. Therefore we have taken you as our spiritual master. You have perfect knowledge of everything spiritual and you have perfect knowledge of everything material.

Prabhupāda: So, all of you agree to this?

Bhavānanda: Do we all agree?

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then I will give direction. Simply I want to know about the makara-dhvaja, consulting both the kavirājas. (pause) Why you stop kīrtana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go ahead, Pañca. (kīrtana begins, Pañca-draviḍa sings slowly)

Prabhupāda: Mildly kīrtana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Mild kīrtana, tell him.