Prabhupāda: Miracles a magician can also show. That is not very important thing. A yogī also can show so many miracles. But scholarly presentation of a certain thing, that requires opulence.
Magic (Conversations and Letters)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So therefore these rascals come, they give them (Hindi or sounds like "asirvada", maybe referring to Sai Baba), I give them, "I am so powerful, I give you (Hindi)," and they give them money, "Oh, here is a sādhu." They'll get (Hindi) very cheaply, and make money. Instead of two lakhs, I'll make ten lakhs, by the (Hindi). And he's Sai Baba, like rogues, they come to show them some magic, that "I have got some power, I can do anything I like, and if you become my devotee, you will improve." All these yogis, everything, they do like that. Mahesh Yogi also: "Take my mantra. Within six months you become perfect man and whatever you like, you can do."
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Surfing?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because I do not know how to do it. Therefore it is mystic power. But the boy is going like this. (pause) Just like one of the yogīs, she (he) walked over the river, crossed. So another old man said: "Oh this is only two paisā worth." Why? "I will pay two paisā to this boatman. He will cross me there." But to attain that power, he had to spend so many years for practicing. This is waste of time. If you can do it by paying two paisā or one ānā to a boatman to cross the river, why should you for ten years or fifteen years practice this yoga, just to show a magic?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda, I remember an incident in Bombay. That was when I was in Calcutta about, a few years ago. There was a yogī. There was advertisement that he was going to walk on water.
Prabhupāda: No, that is possible.
Hṛdayānanda: And a devotee has no material desires. (He wants) to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And unless one is factually desireless, he cannot be happy. The karmī, jñānī, yogi, they are all full of desires. Therefore they are unhappy. Karmīs are the lowest of the unhappies, jñānīs are little advanced, yogis are little more advanced, and the perfection is the bhakta, devotees. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). This is bhakta. (break) ...siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta. Bhukti means karmī, and mukti means jñānī. And siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi, magic power, mystic power. That is called siddhi. Those who are practicing yoga, if they are actually yogis, they can have aṣṭa-siddhi. Aṇimā, laghimā. They can become smaller than the smallest, heavier than the heaviest. Mahimā, prāpti. They can get anything they like. A yogi can get... Suppose if you want a pomegranate from Kabul, he will get immediately. Yes. That is yogi. As if he is snatching from the tree, yes. Prāpti-siddhi, īśitā. They can force their influence upon anyone. Īśitā, vaśitā. Yogis can hypnotize you. As he will say, you will act. As he will say, you will act. These yogis do that. They take something nonsense, "Now take gold," and you will think it is gold. Just like magician do.
Hṛdayānanda: Hypnotist.
Prabhupāda: Hypnotist. They create heaps of money, the magician, I have seen it, all false.
Hṛdayānanda: Like in the Bhāgavatam, Arjuna said like money created by magic word.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Prāpti-siddhi. Now we are flying by aeroplane. A yogi can fly without any instrument. As Durvāsā Muni, he went even Vaikuṇṭha-loka. Not Vaikuṇṭha-loka. Within this planet, there is one planet where, Śvetadvīpa, Lord Viṣṇu lives. He went there and saw Lord Viṣṇu personally to request him to save him. He refused, "No, I cannot. You go to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, beg pardon of him. If he pardons, then you will be saved." So to a devotee, innocent devotee, he had to fall down on his lotus feet, "Please save me."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Kuhakam means this material world is kuhakam.
Dr. Patel: Kuhakam.
Prabhupāda: No, kuhakam means illusion, magic. Something magician showing. So much money. Just like your this, one bābā, what is...? Satya...? He creates some gold.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satya Sai.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) A magician in Gujarat, some Muslim magician. He would ask, not ask for a (indistinct)
Guest (3): He would not...? He would not...?
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Indian (3): Mama Chel.
Dr. Patel: Mama Chel. There was one man called Mama Chel. And when the ticket taker comes and asks for a ticket he would say, "All right, take this," and there would be a heap of tickets, railway tickets.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So a magician can do...
Dr. Patel: A magician he was. He would stop that train. Stand behind and stop the train. Stop. He must, people must have got some siddhis by...
Prabhupāda: Ah, the yogic siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimā...
Dr. Patel: No, but that, this aṇimā-laghimā, you get, the sāttvika fellows. But these, these people who are...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Anyone can get. It is a practice mechanical.
Gargamuni: Yes. He has not sold any.
Prabhupāda: No, he has sold some, but still lying in the store. He published only one thousand copies. Our Nectar of Devotion, the translation of the same book, is selling like hotcakes. Yes. In the university, Temple University, they have made a textbook. And everywhere they like it, Nectar of Devotion. I think... What is our edition at the present moment? Fourth or Fifth edition. And we don't publish less than ten thousand copies. So we have to depend on Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Serve Him, everything, what is required, that will come, some way or other. That is miracle. Why should we try to cheat others, that "I can manufacture gold"? This rascal, if he can manufacture gold, then why he is doing himself business? That is simply jugglery. Even the magicians, they can do. They create so much money. But he is a poor man. Why he remains poor? And everyone thinks of us, that we have got unlimited wealth. You know that?
Gargamuni: Yes. In Māyāpur, when I bring over the karatālas, they are very heavy, two hundred sets of karatālas. So the boatmen say, "Sona, sona." They are thinking it is gold, the karatālas.
Prabhupāda: Everyone... Even government... In the parliament the question was raised, "Wherefrom they get money fabulously?" These men, in our country, they may be fools. In your country also, Los Angeles, I mean, neighboring storekeepers, they are wonderful, that "These people do not work and they have got so many cars and live so nicely?" (laughing) They inquire that "How do we get all these things?" They actually see that they are not ordinary working. They have no working or bank balance or business.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga." "So, how long can you remain? At night?" "Yes. No, I can remain the whole night or as long as you..." "All right, if you remain within severe cold, within water, overnight, then I shall give you such and such presentation." So he agreed, and he did it. And in the morning, when the man came, so he said, "Oh, you are successful." Then he did not... Either he had no money or he did not want to give. So he had his one advisor, "So what shall I do?" "No, no sir, you cannot give money." "Why?" "Now, there was heat." "So how there was heat?" You know, in India they give ākāśa-pradīpa? During Kārttika month they... This is our Vaiṣṇava principle, I think. The lamp is there on the head of the roof. On the roof there is a bamboo, and in the top of the bamboo there is light. So this man was in the lake. And his advisor said, "You have seen that the lamp was there, and heat was coming." (laughing) That lamp was three miles away and still, he advised, "Yes, there was heat. Therefore he could tolerate." So what can be said? He is poor man. So there was another servant of that big man. So he appealed to him that "See, I took so much trouble and he did not pay me anything." "So don't worry. I shall see that you are paid."
Guest (2): Yes, if we were alarmed we wouldn't be here.
Prabhupāda: No, actually we are pledged to give something substantial to the human society. This is our mission. We are not that group, that showing some magic and take some fees and... It is not our business. We have got so many literatures full of treasurehouse of knowledge. We have to distribute that. Not bluffing, showing magic or this or that, miracles. No. We are not this. It is an institution for giving knowledge to the human society. The first beginning of knowledge is that at the present moment, people, although very much proud of their advancement of knowledge, he does not know what is the active principle of life.
Prabhupāda: So many birds are floating on the sea. Nobody's interested. But one rascal will advertise that "I can walk." They purchase five hundred rupees ticket. (laughter) (pause) People want to see magic.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if somebody can show magic, then he becomes God.
Jayatīrtha: God is showing so much magic but people don't recognize it.
Prabhupāda: No, this is also magic. But the scientists will say, "Water is combination of this chemical, that chemical." And wherefrom so much chemical came? That is a magic. But that magic he'll not see. Eh? Dr...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That magic, they will say it was produced by nature.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, it is magic for him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but they don't say it is magic.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is magic for him because he cannot produce so much water. In the laboratory he can produce water just to fill up a test tube. But wherefrom this water came? That is magic.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupāda! Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Yes, done grand style because I strictly follow the instruction of my Guru Mahārāja, that's all. Otherwise I have no strength. I have not played any magic. Did I? Any gold manufacturing? (laughter) Still, I have got better disciples than the gold-manufacturing guru.
Yaśodānandana: Before you came, many gurus came, but they did not make any pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: How they can? He is not pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How he can do? Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra: "Without being empowered by Kṛṣṇa nobody can turn a person to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." It is not... Artificially, you cannot make. He may make show of gold manufacturing, but he cannot make a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Now, Radhakrishnan says "Not to Kṛṣṇa." So there are so many wrong directions by big, big men, taking Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. And we are poor fellows. We are neither big scholar nor politician. We simply teach our disciple the same thing in Kṛṣṇa's service. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto; we are teaching, "You just become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." That's all. No addition, no interpretation. And people are coming. And for the last two hundred years the so-called scholars and politicians published their books, and it is widely read, and not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not a single. Just see practically. We have no magic. We don't play any magic, prepare gold or jugglery. We simply say that you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and these young men have become devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: ...chanting, dancing. So this will rectify his philosophy. Chanting is so strong, it will send all philosophy to hell. (laughter) Vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. (break) You will come out triumphant of all others. (break) ...that is happening. What we are doing? We are not playing any magic. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is increasing?
Devotee: Yesterday I read in the newspaper that Indira Gandhi has been asked to step down from the prime ministership.
Prabhupāda: I heard it. Where is that paper?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, so this morning you get a paper, okay?
Devotee: I'll try to get a paper. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...body comes in her place he will be another.
Prabhupāda: Not toast even. (laughter) Dry loaf? Without any taste, without any value. That also in his table. He cannot go to the... He's busy working. So this is ass. He does not think that "I am working so hard, I am earning so much money. What benefit I am taking? A glass of tea and a loaf? For this I am working so hard? I can get this without any work. Anyone will offer me this glass of tea and loaf. Why I am working so hard?" That sense he hasn't got. Therefore he is ass. Everyone you will see. They are working so hard, they have no time. But what they are enjoying? They are not enjoying even more than ordinary man. But he has no sense, "So for this much benefit I am working so hard?" Therefore he is an ass. A philosopher at least thinks that "Why shall I work so hard for this, only a glass of...?" So therefore he is a little better than these karmīs. Karmī, jñānī. And they are restless because they are falsely thinking that they will get some benefit. They have some aspiration, ambition for getting some benefit. The karmīs they are trying that "I will have so much bank balance, 300,000,000's." He is satisfied to see the bank balance. Although bank balance will not go with him, but he is happy by seeing that "I have got so much bank balance." So they want bank balance only, not enjoyable life. They do not enjoy life. They want to see that "I have so much bank balance, such a high building. I possess this much." They are satisfied. That is not satisfaction. He will never be satisfied. He will want more, more, more. So the karmī has got some demand in his heart. And the jñānī, although they are little advanced more than the karmīs, but they have also demand, that "I shall become merged into the existence of the Supreme." Brahma-li(?). That is also demand. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and get popularity.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual paths are divided into four. Not spiritual. Real spiritual, mixed spiritual. Just like this, "God, give us our daily bread." It is mixed spiritual. One has approached God, God is spiritual, but one is asking for material profit. So this is mixture, matter and spirit. So there are four classes generally known as karmī, fruitive actors, they work for getting some material profit. They are called karmī. Just like all men, you will see, they are working so hard day and night, driving their cars, (makes noise of cars) this way and that way. The purpose is how to get some money. This is called karmī. And then jñānī. Jñānī means he knows that "I am working so hard. Why? The birds, beasts, the elephants, big, big..., eight million different types of..., they are not. They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? So why unnecessarily I work so much? Let me know what is the problem of life." So they understand the problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. And they want to solve it, how to become immortal. So they have conclusion that "If I merge into God's existence, then I become immortal or immune from birth, death, old age and disease." This is called jñānī. And some of them are yogis. They try to acquire some spiritual power to make a show how he can play wonder. A yogi can become very small. If you put him in a room, he will come out. You lock it. He will come out. If there is little space, he will come out. That is called anima. He can fly in the sky, float in the sky. That is called laghima. In this way, if somebody can show this magic, then immediately he is accepted as very wonderful man.
Prabhupāda: If you have no qualification to see Him, even Kṛṣṇa comes before you, you cannot see. You will see Him—"Oh, He's an ordinary man like me," because you are not qualified to see Him. But when you become qualified, you will see Him always. Kuntidevi said, "Kṛṣṇa, You are within and without; still, they cannot see You." If Kṛṣṇa is within and without, there are two things. Still, the example is given, naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. Just like a friend or a family member playing on the stage, and somebody says that "Your brother is playing." "Oh, where is my brother? Where is my brother?" "He is just playing this part, taken this part." "Oh." So he requires the help. Otherwise he cannot see. Even he sees his brother or father playing on the stage, he cannot see. The example is very nice. Naṭo nāṭya-dharo yathā. He sees his brother at home, but he cannot see on the stage. Everything requires qualification. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for qualifying you to see God twenty-four hours. This is sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you learn this art, then you will see God twenty-four hours, without any stop. And that is accepted by Kṛṣṇa, that yoginām api... "He is first class who has learned to see God always in his..." Yogi means that. Yogi does not mean to play some magic. Magician also can play some magic. A devotee is not interested to show any magic, but he is interested to see the magician, supreme, who is playing so much magic. The yogis, they are thinking that "If I can play some magic, then so many people will applaud, and that is my success." But a devotee doesn't want anything. A devotee wants to see who is playing the magic, supreme magician, yogeśvara. Yatra yogeśvaro hariḥ. Find out, yatra yogeśvara hariḥ, Kṛṣṇa, Eighteenth Chapter. The supreme master of all yogic, mystic yoga, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Exactly what Kṛṣṇa has said. Our mission... (Bengali) Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. If you speak what Kṛṣṇa has instructed, you become guru. But if you make your own concoction, own invention, then... (Bengali) I don't speak any nonsense except the instruction given in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is my credit. That's all. People say that I have done wonderful, but I do not know any magic. The wonderful thing I have done is that I don't speak any nonsense thing.
Lalitā: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Mahārāja has done.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am simply... This is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic, and what is called, miracles, they are..., where they are and where I am. That is their fear.
Lalitā: Fear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They understood that "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-melā all these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Kṛṣṇa śakti... It is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Have you got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe pravartane.
Prabhupāda: Nāma pracāra.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Lord Kṛṣṇa's energies..."
Prabhupāda: And kṛṣṇa bhajanate nāhi jāti-kulādi vicāra. These are all Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... What is that? In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (Bengali) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa and follow Him. Then you are successful.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God. Same sense grati.... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and.... No. I shall become God. Why shall I.... By becoming king or minister I beg to the goddess of fortune, 'Mother, give me a little money.' Why shall I beg? I shall enjoy her. I become Nārāyaṇa." Same disease. A yogi also, after mystic power they want to show magic: "I shall make like this and gold will be there.
Prabhupāda: Very, very great trouble. You have not seen the yogis? Of course, there are some.... But still, they have to undergo very severe processes for achieving this yogic power. And a devotee, they kick it, that "What is this nonsense?" That is devotee. "What is this nonsense? What shall I do by producing gold?" And I never tried for making gold, but is there any scarcity of gold? I never tried for that, how to make gold. That Sai Baba is showing some magic power. What of the Maharsi? Maha.... He was also after some yogic power.
Prabhupāda: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mūḍhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Sudāmā: (break) ...very curious: "What is the power and mystery of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, how he is doing so many things but yet he does not appear like these others yogis who are..., like Satya Sai Baba who is making magic and..."
Prabhupāda: But why? Because they have no eyes. Has Satya Sai Baba so many properties all over the world? He is creating gold but has he got so many properties? One property like this? Huh? I started this business with forty rupees; now it is forty crores. Has this rascal has any property like this? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You can see in the Fifth Canto. There is.
Hṛdayānanda: That means that māyā is just like a magician.
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means magician. Māyā means... māyā means affection, māyā means illusion, magician, so many things—strength, potency.
Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is your explanation why the sun changes colors?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jagadīśa: What is your explanation as to why the sun changes colors?
Prabhupāda: Sun is moving. You are seeing through some color. Then it is color.
Prabhupāda: Ajitendriyānām. Without controlling the senses, other things, they are simply professional. It has no value. (break)...yogis, all their methods, they have been described by Prahlāda Mahārāja as a way of their livelihood. Actually, they have no knowledge. They are talking of, as knowledge, but they have no knowledge. This profession is their means of their livelihood. Otherwise, they have no value. Just like a magician. He shows some magic, but that does not mean he has all knowledge. He has taken these magic performances as a means of his livelihood. (break) ...ti ajitendriyānām. Jugglery of words, they are professional. (break) ...that big, big words. Then people engage them: "Oh, here is a big scientist." And if he's not engaged, his talking has no value. By the knowledge he has acquired, he can make some money. That's all.
Hṛdayānanda: That's exactly what's happening.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you ask, they will say, "That we do not know." So why you are taking money? Exactly they say so. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged that professor who came to lecture in California University. He challenged, "If I give you chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say."
Prabhupāda: No, that I.... That I admit. But one thing is that you practically see the cow is eating dry grass and giving you full of vitamins milk. So that does not mean that dry grass is the cause of vitamins? Otherwise you could eat also the dry grass instead of purchasing vitamin pills. Your country is very much fond of vitamin pills. You eat grass. Why you are after vitamin pills? Hm? Saurabha Prabhu? You can take vitamin pills with grass?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we saw a science film in Stanford, and one process of protein synthesis they called "The Magic Factor."
Prabhupāda: Again, that cau...
Dharmādhyakṣa: They didn't...
Prabhupāda: Chance. Magic is also a chance.
Dharmādhyakṣa: So that must have been the Kṛṣṇa factor.
Guru-kṛpā: Everything else but Kṛṣṇa. Magic.
Prabhupāda: (break) You see the tree, coconut tree, the hard nut and the water. Now, according to scientific idea, there must be pipe, there must be pumping and there must be water. Then you can raise the water. But where is such, such things? How the water is coming?
Pañca-draviḍa: To the tree?
Prabhupāda: Yes, on the top, so high. There is no pipe. There is no pump, nothing. You do it. Instead of calling a plumber, you do something that the water will come in this tank.
Prabhupāda: This is my answer. Thousands of them are working here on my behalf. Just see their character and behavior.
Reporter (4): Swamiji, may I say something? A magician can create many charismas. But God also create charismas. Who will you compare? The magician charismas or the God's charisma? This is the difference. A magician can also sometimes impress upon people that he has godly powers, but are they the real godly powers as against real godly powers? This is the difference. I have been at least thirty times to America, talked to lot of people. They say if you want to go really for attainment of your soul, you go to ISKCON.
Prabhupāda: Even Mahesh Yogi says. Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Magic cloth.
Candanācārya: So they were getting much money for making nothing.
Hṛdayānanda: The emperor went out naked in the street, and everyone was afraid to admit that there was no clothes.
Rāmeśvara: Because they would be labeled fool. So finally one boy said, "But the emperor has no clothes."
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a nice story in this connection. There was one Gopal Ban. So he was very cunning fellow. In the Muhammadan period in Bengal. So the Mohammedan Nawab asked him, "Gopal Ban, can you prepare a Mahābhārata in my name?" "Oh, yes!" So, "I'll engage so many paṇḍitas, and they will make a Mahābhārata, your activities, your glories, everything. So give me one hundred thousand rupees, just begin." He was taking money, taking money, "Yes, it is going on, going on." "Then when it will be published?" "Yes, just last few days more. Now, sir, everything is prepared. So the one thing is, you have to give me information how many husbands you have got, your wife, huh? How many husbands your wife has got?" That is very insulting. "What, you nonsense, you take." "No, that is the main feature of Mahābhārata. Draupadī had five husbands, so how many husbands your wife has got? Tell me that." Then, "No, no, I don't want that. I am the only husband." "Then how can you write Mahābhārata?" (laughter) "I don't want." "All right. If you want Mahābhārata you must tell how many your wife has got husbands." That he cannot say. So Mahābhārata finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they don't like that.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) This is too much.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even you were challenging their gurus. That they get very angry at. Sataji will always tell me, "I like your Prabhupāda very much. But he is always criticizing all of our gurus."
Rāmeśvara: Like Ramakrishna and this cheater magician.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He calls them cheaters, rascals, rogues, in public." At all the pāṇḍāls you used to do that. Oh, they couldn't stand it.
Hari-śauri: That man that stopped me in the street...
Prabhupāda: What can I say? Kṛṣṇa says. I am simply a child, repeating the words of Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you always tell them that. "It is not what I'm saying; Kṛṣṇa is saying." But that gets them even angrier.
Prabhupāda: We are Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are obligated to say like that.
Bharadraja: This is all kaitava-dharma.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, kaitava. You do not get any more benefit. After practicing yoga for ten years, twenty years, if you learn this art how to walk over water, so you can show the magic to the foolish man. But intelligent man will say, "It is a question of four annas. I can walk. Why shall I waste my time, twenty years, for learning this art?"
Indian lady: Sometimes these mystic powers, they use on human beings...
Prabhupāda: This is one of the mystic powers which amaze people, foolish people.
Indian lady: But they can use on human beings also...
Prabhupāda: What human being?
Indian lady: In their life or...
Prabhupāda: No, no, suppose human being learns how to walk over water. Is that the solution of all problems? So what is the benefit to the human being? Suppose you have this mystic yogic power, you can walk over the water, and you teach the whole human society how to walk over the water. (laughter) What is the benefit there?
Indian lady: But for some creation of something or so many things they show...
Prabhupāda: That means you have no clear idea, "something, something." Actually there is no benefit. You do not know what is benefit.
Prabhupāda: How many scientists?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are also fallible, they can also make mistakes. "Experts Misled: For instance, investigators in universities in the West were known to be misled by tricksters who claimed para-psychological powers." Like ESP.
Prabhupāda: They invent some big, big words (laughter). Aparkalasvena-vargolas-double-wakundali-gondolais (gibberish). (laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "One of them was Uri Geller, an ordinary street magician who succeeded in hoodwinking two scientists of the Stanford Research Institute. He claimed that he was able to perform miracles with psychic powers obtained from a computerized brain thirteen million light years away in space." Very far away in space there's a computerized brain that he's using.
Hari-śauri: This guy, Uri Geller, he had a stage show. He would get one iron bar and stare at it, and the iron bar would bend, like this. And he could bend, he could put a spoon in the open palm of his hand, and it would bend. Things like this he was doing, and he became very famous overnight.
Prabhupāda: By bending iron.
Prabhupāda: Our names are also there. Indirectly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is mentioned, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Prabhupāda: Factually, these rascals are creating magic jugglery. Even during the time of Kṛṣṇa such rascals were there. Pauṇḍraka. So Kṛṣṇa was present, He immediately cut off his head. (laughs) They should be immediately cut off their head, rascals. Yes. That is the only punishment for them. What another news you told me?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, also they started, they've called the department the Department of Hindu Studies.... There's an all-Indian University in Durban, and when Śrīla Prabhupāda visited South Africa, the president of the university was a European gentleman, he very much appreciated our philosophy and the need for a Department of Hindu Studies. So Śrīla Prabhupāda recommended Svarūpa Dāmodara, and we submitted his application. And they've limited the choices for the Ph.D. in charge of the Department of Hindu Studies to three, and one of them is Svarūpa Dāmodara. So there's a possibility...
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara must be the best candidate. Others, what they'll know about it? All other Ph.D.s, they are simply rubber stamped. Actually they have no knowledge. Svarūpa Dāmodara has solid knowledge. He has learned from us. Therefore he's writing all these books. He has rejected his so-called scientific knowledge. He has completely understood that so-called scientific knowledge is bogus, it has no solid background. Now he's writing books on this. Now this morning, last night also, I got hint from Bhāgavatam, I told you in the morning? The sun planet is first. And nobody can reply this, that "Why Sunday first?" Nobody has replied this point. Sunday, Monday.... First of all Sunday, then Monday. Why not Monday, Sunday? That is according to the planetary arrangement. The Saturn is the last planet. That is admitted in the Bhāgavatam. So sun is first, then moon, then Mars, then Jupiter, like that, last, Saturn. That is everywhere. So why the modern scientists changing it? The Monday first or moon first, sun second. Hmm? What is your reply. You sometimes support them.
Dr. Sukla: We have another mentally retarded person in India, Sai Baba.
Prabhupāda: Yes, magic.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have that newspaper from South Africa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, we are not after all this magic. We are laymen. We do not want this magic, neither we want to show magic. We simply, as canvasser of Kṛṣṇa, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "Sir, Kṛṣṇa says like this, you do like that," that's all. If you like, you can do; otherwise let us do our own business. We don't show any magic, neither we speak anything which is not in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is little success, it is due to this secret, that's all. (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa says that He is Supreme, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So we are preaching, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme," that's all.
Prabhupāda: Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ pavitram paramam idam. Su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. Find out this verse.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the only way back to Godhead is to to attain the causeless mercy of the spiritual master. So...
Prabhupāda: And he'll sleep. Just as your spiritual master will do for (indistinct) everything (indistinct). It is not magic. Kṛṣṇa, when He advised Arjuna, He never said that "Arjuna, I'm your friend, God, I shall do everything (indistinct). You don't fight." Did He say? "You have to fight!" That's Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Not that by spiritual master's mercy (indistinct). You have to struggle. You have to follow the rules and regulations. Yes, what does He say?
Devotee (3):
- rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
- pavitram idam uttamam
- pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ
- su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam
- (BG 9.2)
"This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed."
Devotee (3): So by struggling to overcome our senses, we can please you and obtain your mercy?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: My attraction is this chanting. That's all.
Interviewer: Did you stand on street corners and chant?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I had no magic. Just like others. They say some..., show some magic. I never showed any magic.
Interviewer: No, I understand that.
Bali-mardana: Thompkins Park.
Prabhupāda: By Thompkins Park I was chanting, and these boys gradually came. First picture was published by the New York Times. Then we started branches in San Francisco, in Montreal, Boston. And then Los Angeles. In this way...
Interviewer: So you just chanted in Thompkins Park, and people came?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I was underneath a tree. I think that picture was published by that Voice, very big article, published.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong? They'll say "We have got different meaning of Kṛṣṇa" All the sages, all the saintly persons, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he immediately accepted Kṛṣṇa: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have spoken, I take it altogether as it is." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). All fact. And they are manufacturing some meaning. How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But I do not know what wonderful. I do not know any magic. I simply say that you accept Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. That is my magic.
Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.
Prabhupāda: This is magic.
Hari-śauri: Still, even if he can do those things, it's only mystic siddhi. That doesn't mean to say he's God or an avatāra or anything. But these people are so foolish they think anybody with a little magic, he must be avatāra.
Pradyumna: They worship him as God. "Bhagavan Sai Baba."
Prabhupāda: Anyway, we must bring this man charges. "Ungodly face."
Hari-śauri: Just like it says in the Bhagavad-gītā, they think religion is irreligion...
Prabhupāda: "Ungodly face," what is that?
Pradyumna: "The ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult."
Prabhupāda: What is that ungodly face?
Hari-śauri: They're trying to make out we're political.
Pradyumna: That we... He said he has "Now unmasked the ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." That we're putting on a false face of being devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but actually we have an ungodly purpose. That we want to...
Prabhupāda: What ungodly we have done?
Pradyumna: That he does not come out and say, but he implies that we are foreign, that we want to exploit India somehow.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are feeling the weight. Now they are feeling the weight. That is the progress. Otherwise, if our movement would have been a trifle thing, the government and newspapers they would not have taken care. Now they are feeling that this movement is going to be more and more important, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: No. How long they can go on with false pretense? And these people, they have no idea what is spiritual life. It is a profession for collecting money. So if you... We do not like to criticize. Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, Kanayalal Munshi, he did not believe there is life after death or he did not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, fact. This is the founder. So what is their knowledge? And Vivekananda made Nārāyaṇa daridra. So this is their manufacturing ideas. They have no sound knowledge, vacant. They are misled themselves, and they will mislead others. This is going on. But if you say that, "You are the only man?" I can say, "Yes, I am the only man" at the present moment. You believe or not believe. And why? Because I am following Kṛṣṇa's instructions. That's all. I do not touch anything. That is our process. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we say, that's all. Therefore there is little success. I don't manufacture. I have no extraordinary power or I cannot show magic or jugglery of words.
Prabhupāda: ...required to kill somebody, he'll do that. If it is required for his sense gratification. There are many instances that a woman is addicted to another man and she has killed her husband, killed her son. Why? Sense gratification. I have seen one woman, my Godbrother's wife, she killed her son for being implicated with another man. I have seen it. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which are not to be done, they do it. Why? For the matter of sense gratification. They do it. That's a fact. So therefore simply for sense gratification they are prepared to do anything. That means pāpa. It is the verdict of the court that when a man kills another man he becomes mad. Without becoming mad a man cannot kill another man. So everything is being done which is not sanctioned because for sense gratification. The whole world is (indistinct) is sense gratification. And at the end, when he's little spiritually inclined, he wants to satisfy senses by thinking artificially that "I shall become God." That is the greatest sense gratification. "Because remaining a small living entity I have been hampered in my sense gratification. Now let me become God so that there will be no restriction of my sense gratification." Bhagavān (indistinct). Because he has failed to satisfy his senses remaining non-Bhagavān, now he wants to become Bhagavān. Yogi, that is also another sense gratification. That if I show some magic, if I can create little gold like this, hundreds and thousands of men will be after me and I shall live, very nicely. Gratify my senses. These things are going on practically. The man who is manufacturing gold, and so many rich people are coming to his disciples and he's begging for a motor car. If he can create gold, why he cannot create a motor car? This is going on.
Indian man: I don't know. He does some kind of trick.
Prabhupāda: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.
Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases and they get cured.
Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence. Huh?
Hari-śauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, "Oh, you have been in an accident and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left and therefore you were not injured." Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.
Prabhupāda: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he's so powerful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. B.N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy... Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There's another six year old "god" called Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six year old Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He was producing ash with some magic.
Prabhupāda: Ash?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ash.
Pradyumna: "So you can claim as a spark of God, as every living entity can claim but you cannot claim as the..."
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Person with full power. That is misleading. You can show a little magic, as other magicians also can show.
Pradyumna: "You can show a little magic as other magicians can also show."
Prabhupāda: But you cannot show the full magic, as Kṛṣṇa displayed or Lord Rāmacandra displayed. Therefore your claim as a full power is completely false and blasphemous.
Pradyumna: "Therefore your claim for full power is completely false..."
Prabhupāda: And blasphemous. In this way find out.
Pradyumna: Completely Māyāvādī.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (1): Then what about miracles performed by so many people?
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Nobody can play anything. Magician also can make.
Indian man (1): Interfere with the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can. It is all foolishness, all rascaldom. They are all rascals and who understands miracle, they are also rascals. Laws of nature cannot be changed.
Indian man (1): There may be several laws which we don't know.
Prabhupāda: There are many laws. What do you know? You do not know anything. (chuckles)
Indian man (1): We do not know. Then I say those miracles may be possible according to those laws that we don't know.
Prabhupāda: There is no miracle. If you touch fire, it will burn, that's all.
Prabhupāda: That I am asking every time. Ask Gopāla that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And they are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So, which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.
Hari-śauri: We simply have to...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: ...present our whole program and...
Prabhupāda: Our only business is how to establish Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the only business. Our quarrel with our men: Why this temple is not clean? Why there is no flower in the Deity room? This is our fight. We have no other cause of fight. And why should we show magic? But these inquiries are going on—it is good—these rascals will be exposed.
Prabhupāda: No... That is another thing. That is another thing.
Guest (7): All the miracles only just to increase confidence and...
Prabhupāda: Why...? Magic is magic. That is another thing. That is not knowledge.
Guest (7): Suppose if I want to talk here Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the masses...
Prabhupāda: No, we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, not by the ways and means by Sai Baba. That is foolishness.
Guest (7): Can I attain such magical powers?
Prabhupāda: So why? What is the use? We are not using any magical powers.
Guest (7): Just to convince the people.
Prabhupāda: Why this foolishness? We never... Ask my disciples. I have never shown any magic. Why?
Bhāgavata: That is a cheap business.
Prabhupāda: That is cheating business. That is not required. It is meant for the foolish men.
Guest (7): ...Suri Bhavantam (?), he was convinced by him just because of his magical powers.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Guest (7): Suri Bhavantam (?) is a scientist. He was convinced by him just because of his magical powers. Otherwise he could not influence me. One of my friends who was sitting there, he told me, "Satya Sai Baba, he won't come this side," he said. I said, "I'll make him to come this side."
Prabhupāda: No, these are words. He has been challenged also by a group of educated men. So there are some fools, rascals. That is all.
Prabhupāda: This is the process of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt (SB 11.17.27). If you go to ācārya, then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? Ācāryopāsanam. Go to ācārya. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Kṛṣṇa has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled. If you want magician, see Kṛṣṇa, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And he expanded himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand, after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here?" No. He is present everywhere. That is magic. Nārada was surprised that "How Kṛṣṇa is maintaining sixteen thousand wives?" He saw in each and every home sixteen thousand establishment and Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. So this is magic. Why don't you see Kṛṣṇa's magic? Why you are so much allured by a tiny magician? That is your misfortune. Poor heart, poor magic. See the real magic. If you want to see magic, see the Kṛṣṇa's magic. Kṛṣṇa, when He was three months old, the Pūtanā came to kill the child by poisoning but she was killed. So in this way, from the very beginning of Kṛṣṇa's appearance, He's killing so many demons. So why don't you see this magic? If you want to see magic, see Kṛṣṇa's magic. Why the poor magic? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And each loka... Suppose this loka, earthly planet.
Prabhupāda: That anyone can do, magic, jugglery. It has no meaning.
Mr. Malhotra: He got you know this money.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he can get anything, but that is... Magic. That is... Magician also knows.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Professor Sarkar, a big magician, he kills, cuts people's body, then he joins them.
Prabhupāda: So many things. Magic jugglery is...
Mr. Malhotra: But there are some siddhis also. These siddhi, siddhis.
Prabhupāda: That is siddhi, magic also siddhi. You are successful businessman, that is also siddhi. That is also siddhi. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even one is siddha, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is said, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even one is siddha, still he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Malhotra: Then he is servant, always servant?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nityānām, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ... (Hindi) Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (Hindi) That is his foolishness. And foolish person will accept. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Therefore He shall remain the Supreme always. We have to refer to the Vedic śāstras. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is description of Bhagavān. That He has nothing to do, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. (Hindi) (Explains in Hindi that Kṛṣṇa does not need or show any magic, when He was just a child He killed Pūtanā. Not that by meditation He became God. Bhagavān is always Bhagavān.) Either he is three months old or three years old or three hundred years old. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, nobody can be equal or greater than Him. If someone is equal to Him then how He is Bhagavān?
Mr. Malhotra: How it can be that so many sages of the past, they proclaimed ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Prabhupāda: Brahman (Hindi). You are Brahman. Because you are part and parcel of Para-brahman. That I have already told you. That gold, big gold and small particle, that is gold. Similarly, Bhagavān Para-brahman, and we are part and parcel of Him. Therefore I am Brahman. But I am not Para-brahman. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as Para-brahman by Arjuna: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Para-brahman. So param, this word is used, Paramātmā, Para-brahman, Parameśvara.
Prabhupāda: Very simple thing, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." I have not given them any bribe. I have not shown them any magic of gold manufacturing. From the very beginning I said, "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." But that is becoming fruitful.
Guest (1): That gives them peace of mind, because their mind gets attuned to something that is good.
Prabhupāda: But that they will not take.
Guest (2): That they will not take for what reason?
Prabhupāda: Reason is: "This is cheap. The swami is giving something cheap." Nowadays it has become a fashion, "Meditation." What nonsense meditation he will do?" This is going on. He cannot take cheap thing.
Guest (1): Cheap thing may be the right thing, the true thing, but "Because it's cheap, (laughing) so we..., not to be bothered."
Prabhupāda: In Europe, America, the Indian students, they say, "Oh, we have seen all this Hare Kṛṣṇa. We now want technology."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India, if the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the Supreme Leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are all of Prabhupāda's books. Eighty books.
Prabhupāda: Eighty-four books we have, I have written within ten years. And our publication house, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the first in the world for publishing religious and philosophical books. We are selling not less than six lakhs worth books daily.
Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And see how it is effective.
Guest (1): Do you mean it that a man who is under so much tension can...
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, try to see the distinction. Before me, so many people went. They misinterpreted Bhagavad-gītā, there was no effect. And we are not misinterpreting. We are simply presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is given. That is the point. Everyone says, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful thing." But I say , "I do not know any magic, jugglery. But wonderful thing is that I have not adulterated." That is wonderful. Otherwise, nothing wonderful. What I am saying? Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. I am creating them bhaktas, that's all. I am starting these temples and ask them that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. You become devotee, you always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. And they are giving up everything. Their father and mother, they are thinking, "They are our lost child." They are now giving the opposition.
Prabhupāda: Why you are after miracles?
Indian man: No, but one thing. Is it possible for a saint at certain stage of sādhana to perform miracles?
Prabhupāda: That is cheating. Here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, you don't find anywhere that you show miracles. He says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). He never says that you show miracles. These are all rascals. You become His bhakta. That is the greatest miracle. And he guarantees, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaṁ. That is miracle. What is this miracle, cheating other people by showing some magic or jugglery of words. These are miracles? That is cheating.
Indian man: But to a layman what would you preach?
Prabhupāda: Layman, if he does not go to the right man he'll suffer. What can be done?
Indian man: But where should it begin?
Prabhupāda: Begin when one who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. Begin there.
Prabhupāda: Begin when one who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. Begin there.
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva...
- (BG 4.34)
Who has seen actually Kṛṣṇa, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Kṛṣṇa, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You do not know where you are going. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.
Indian man: For spreading this movement in India, are you hopeful it will be?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are sincere. Those who are after jugglery, magic...
Indian man: They will not come.
Prabhupāda: They will be cheated.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They are showing some magic. Just like this child was being treated. So he could not check the process of death. Neither it is possible to stop the process of death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha... Our real unhappiness is this-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So otherwise why there is knowledge? He does not know what is the miserable condition of life. Everyone knows that he is going to die. He has taken birth; he has become old; he has suffered diseases. Then where is the solution? In America this yoga practice is very popular, and they want some solution of the miseries. But here it is said, "Where is the solution?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi is there. Where is your solution? You cannot stop death. Then where is the solution? This is cheating, that "I shall make solution of your suffering." But a intelligent man will say, "Can you make a solution of my death, of my old age, of my disease, of my birth?" That is knowledge. But they are poor fellows. They have no knowledge and they cheat. That's all. Where is solution? Solution is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), it is said. Otherwise cheating.
Prabhupāda: I'm not (Hindi). My jñāna is Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. Neither (Hindi). But what Kṛṣṇa says, I accept. That's all. They say, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." I do not know what is magic, wonderful. But one thing wonderful I have done, that I have not adulterated on the words of Kṛṣṇa. That I have not. And therefore the effect is very good. I have not adulterated. I don't say, "Two plus two equal to five" or "three." I say "Four." Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Day after. So our movement is genuine. Now it is up to you to help this movement. And there is no concoction. From... Sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ (BG 4.3). As Kṛṣṇa said five thousand years ago, yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ, so we are also presenting that purātanaḥ. This philosophy is not new. Purātanaḥ. So we have nothing to tax our brain to manufacture something new. So people give me credit: "Swamiji, you have done wonderful, wonderful." I do not know magic. But I am presenting purātanaḥ, that's all, no adulteration. If there is any credit, the credit is this-yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Some reason anyābhilāṣitā. He has got other purpose, not the purpose of preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is called anyābhilāṣa. So people are infested with anyābhilāṣa, everyone. Therefore he is living this material life. But that should be zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That you have to... That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If you have got other purposes within yourself, then you'll never understand Bhagavad-gītā. This is bhakti.
- anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
- jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
- ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-
- śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama
- (Brs. 1.1.11)
And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. And this is bhakti, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). So they have got full of anyābhilāṣa, jñāna-karma, so they are not bhaktas; they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They are talking nonsense. This is the position. Because they are not bhaktas-karmī, jñāni, yogi—they have got some purpose. Karmī is flatly that "We want this enjoyment." And jñānī, he says superficially that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The jagat is mithyā. So we don't want this jagat, but I want mukti, to become one with the Supreme." So that is also anyābhilāṣa. He does not know it. He's thinking that "I'm better than these karmīs. The karmīs have got anyābhilāṣa. So I have rejected that. Brahma-satya. I have taken to Brahman." But that is also anyābhilāṣa because he wants to become one with the Brahman. Subtle. And yogis, they also want mystic power to show magic. So he also anyābhilāṣitā-pūrṇa. So none of them are fit to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So Bhagavad-gītā will be understood by him who is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). But none of these karmīs, jñānis, yogis, they are anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). They're anyābhilāṣitā-pūrṇam. They cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. It is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "You are My very confidential friend. I am talking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Give up all this nonsense. You simply surrender." Guhyad guhyata—what is that? Find out. Guhyatamam. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3).
Guest (10): Supreme Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have told them that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, and they have accepted. This is my magic, and this is their magic. That's all. You ask them if I did any magic with them.
Guest (10): This is magic itself.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, it is magic. It is magic undoubtedly. But I never created any gold or some other... And neither I do know it, how to do it, although there is no scarcity of gold in my pocket. I started this business with forty rupees. So I'll go to take massage. Thank you very much. (Hindi) ...prasāda. Show. Show the film. You are going to show?
Girirāja: Haridāsa took the projector, so I don't know when it's coming.
Prabhupāda: Why he has? (end)
Prabhupāda: And another rascal will come. (laughs)
Gargamuni: Now there's another Sai Baba. He has the same hairs and everything. He's in competition. He's called something else. He's also from the South.
Rāmeśvara: He does magic?
Gargamuni: Yes. Same type of thing.
Rāmeśvara: Ash coming from his dhotī.
Gargamuni: Yes. But Sai Baba is under fire now because they say that he produces small things which he can hide in his robe. So they ask, "Why can't you make a big thing? Like a big pumpkin or something big? Why only apples and oranges and small things? (laughter) Why don't you make a big thing?" Some scientists at Bangalore University, they have started...
Prabhupāda: He doesn't deny.
Prabhupāda: Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. For kāma... Just like one is lusty for sex, they are for false name. "I shall become God. People will adore me." This is their.... "And we shall bluff like this, by magic, word jugglery." This is the aim.
Hari-śauri: Simply cheating process.
Prabhupāda: No aim how to make people understand about God. They have no such, neither they do know personally. Their only aim is that "If I become a God-man, if I can bluff, jugglery of words and this magic and..., then I'll..." The same material thing, pratiṣṭha. As ordinary people, they are working so hard for some material gain, material reputation, these people are like that, in a different manner. This Satya Sai Baba, this Vivekananda, this, all of them, like that. They want some material position, misusing their mediocre knowledge. That's all.
Hari-śauri: It's called "A cloak of respectability."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Many houses. I was not sleeping at night, and there was some sound, "gongongongon," in my ear. So long the body will be there, there will be so many troubles. And Kṛṣṇa has advised that "They will come and go. Don't care for them. That's all." Āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata.
- mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
- śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
- āgamāpāyino 'nityās
- tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
- (BG 2.14)
So bodily, mental, by enemies, so many impediments will come. What can be done? We have to tolerate. That is material world. We cannot expect smooth, very happy. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa advising Arjuna, what to speak of us. What we are in comparison to Arjuna. He's His personal friend, talking with Him. He said, tāṁs titikṣasva. Kṛṣṇa never said, "I have made some magic. You'll have no failure," like that. Tāṁs titikṣasva. "You just try to tolerate." That's all. He never gave him any tablet. (chuckling) He taught that... So we have to do that. As the modern gurus says that "I'll give you some ash. There will be no trouble," Kṛṣṇa did He so? He said, "No, tolerate." That's all. He could have said, "I'll give you some ash." "You are ass; I'll give you some ash." (laughter) Neither Arjuna asked also, that "Why You are asking me to fight? Give me some ash. I'll throw." He was not such a fool that he asked some magic from Kṛṣṇa and kill his enemies. Actually he fought. This is Bhagavad-gītā. So face things as they are and depend on Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. We must go on with our duty. Don't expect any ash, miracle, magic. So what is...? You have got sleeping place?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is very sick, so he said, "Now this is with me for the rest of my life unless some spiritual sādhu does some magic." So I could see that he is, because of this illness, he has probably become more spiritual now, which is also Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
Prabhupāda:
- catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ
- janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna
- ārto jijñāsur arthārthī
- jñānī ca bharatarṣabha
- (BG 7.16)
When one is distressed, ārtaḥ, if he is pious then he comes to Kṛṣṇa. If he is pious. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are not pious, they will never come.
Mahāprabhu says that "You become guru." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā... You understand Bengali?
Mr. Dwivedi: Just smattering of it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Suppose you are living in that village. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "You become a guru here." Here. You haven't got to go out. Ei deśa, "where you are living." Just see how nice it is. Āmāra ājñāya: "By My order, you become a guru and deliver the people of this place." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So "I am not educated, I do not know. How I shall become?" No, you haven't got to bother. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. You become guru." That's all. Everyone can do that. Gītā is there. You sit down in your place and preach Bhagavad-gītā and try to induce them to take it. You become guru. But these rascals, they are becoming guru and showing magic and so many jugglery, not Gītā (Hindi), and spoil the whole country. Anyway, whatever is done is done. Now Kṛṣṇa has sent you. You have got all arrangement. I am prepared. I am asking my secretary to make arrangement. Let us cooperate. It will be very nice. Mr. Dwivedi is very nice man.
Prabhupāda: That they know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were all over, and the medicine was up here.
Prabhupāda: Come just like magic, they come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, how is it? I can't understand it. I really don't understand it.
Girirāja: Acintya-śakti.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It must be Supersoul telling them...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...that there's something here. Do they smell it? No.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, they are also living entities like us. Whenever there is some sense of enjoyment, they flock together.
Prabhupāda: Some magic. Our magic is already there. Throughout the whole world we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is not that magic? Foreign countries, foreign religion, and they are accepting Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is not that magic?
Indian man (1): It is.
Prabhupāda: And still more magic? The world is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Boliye?
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
He is yogi. There are many varieties of yogis. And Kṛṣṇa concludes, "Of all the yogis, big, big yogis, the person who is always remembering Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is first class." This is said by Kṛṣṇa, not by me. Therefore it is authorized statement. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all these mystic powers... They may be temporarily some magic, but Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is always remembering Me," satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14), "he is first-class yogi." So all these persons who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa according to the prescribed rules and regulations, without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses. So in the beginning there may be offenses. It doesn't matter. It will be rectified. Offenseless chanting means mukti, and then pure chanting means love of Godhead. There are three stages. In the beginning, when one begins chanting, it is not pure. There are so many offenses. But chanting, chanting, the offenses become purified. Offenseless chanting is not purified completely, but it is offenseless. So offenseless chanting makes one liberated, and then pure chanting makes one lover of God. This is the process. So chanting is definite mystic power. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: (CC Antya 20.12) "By chanting, your heart becomes purified." Ceto-darpaṇa. We are suffering in this material world on account of... (background talking) (aside:) Ask him not to talk loudly. On account of impurities... (aside:) What is the use of talking? The first impurity is identifying... (aside:) Stop him. Don't talk at all.
Prabhupāda: He is half finished.
Satadhanya: He's a juggler, magician.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Balesvara Yogi is also almost finished.
Prabhupāda: Almost.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nobody takes seriously now. I saw an article just a few weeks ago about Balesvara Yogi, how he is, you know, he has not been accepted. Rather, it's increasing that many believe him that he's just fake.
Prabhupāda: He's bogus.
Prabhupāda: ...saw the universes, universe, within the mouth of Kṛṣṇa. So he... She was desiring so many things. Then, when there was no solution, "Oh... He's my child." That's all. She forgot everything, that, what he desire, what she desired(?), whether it is magic or this or this or that: "Don't mind. There is my child. That's all." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is his wife. So they were friends. She was this woman's friend before this woman knew about Kṛṣṇa. So she's trying to encourage her.
Prabhupāda: Very good. (break) ...yatra is going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...book sales and sells twelve to fifteen thousand rupees a month. It's very nice to see these foreign people coming to Vṛndāvana, having read your books, coming here. It's like a perfect fulfillment of your books. They're so much impressed with the subject matter that they want to see this Vṛndāvana. Especially they have read Kṛṣṇa book. To them Vṛndāvana is like a magical world.
Prabhupāda: Hindi book is selling nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm-hm. He said so.
Prabhupāda: Four hundred, five hundred—no joke.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no joke. That Bengali Back to Godhead is very good also. This one has come out very nice, the layout and everything. It's very good.
Prabhupāda: He writes nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is your magic touch, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Anyone who contacts you becomes a devotee. You're just like the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Whoever saw them...
Prabhupāda: She's already a good lady. Otherwise how she can have such nice son? (laughter)
Correspondence
1970 Correspondence
Please accept my greetings. I beg to thank you for your kind letter dated 28th May, 1970. I am so glad to receive a letter from a 70 years old young man. Sometimes they say about me "74 years young holy man", and sometimes they say "jet-age parivrajakacarya." They also very kindly have written that I have done magic to the foreigners. So I thank you all for your good wishes, although I am not elegible for these honors. Whatever is being done, it is Lord Krishna's mercy. He is unlimited and His mercy is also unlimited, so by His mercy even a crow can dance like a peacock.
1971 Correspondence
I am so glad to note that you are planning a Hare Krishna festival in Detroit, on the order of the ones we held in India (Bombay and Calcutta). We had a very large tent, displayed our literatures, had kirtanas and arati ceremony for Radha and Krishna, spoke some on Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, and distributed prasadam sumptuously, and not less than 20,000 and as many as 40,000 came daily to participate; it was so successful. And our magic was simply this chanting and dancing; that's all. So you can do likewise in Detroit as far as possible and it will be a great event. Perhaps soon we can such big festivals in all the big cities in your country also.
1972 Correspondence
Actually, miracle means see something I do not understand, so I am thinking, that is miracle. Just like if a small child sees me lift up one table, the child may think in that way, that it is miracle such big table could be lifted by me. So in real sense miracle means fool, because if I have no knowledge then I am fool, so I say Oh, it is miracle, but actually I am fool. So-called transcendentalists who have no real stock of knowledge they are fond of these miracles, and for the most part, because the innocent public is generally foolish, therefore they accept these rascals of magicians as saintly persons. But real knowledge means science or knowing everything about something. So this Krishna Consciousness is not a miracle, it is science, and because we are Krishna conscious, therefore we know everything, so practically we can understand how Krishna wanted to please His devotees and He appeared there so wonderfully, and we do not see anything miracle.
So far the presidents are concerned, they should not be abruptly changed in future. If there is any complaint they should be first of all informed to me. One thing we should always remember is that all of our devotees picked up here are accustomed to all of these bad habits in their past life, so if sometimes they reveal their old characteristics, instead of rejecting them, it is up to us to rectify them as far as possible. So try to reform Mohananandan there. What he will do by coming here? Amogha has indicated he has already shaved his sikha and has left everything. do you think U.S.A. is a magic place, simply by coming here he will become reformed? If possible you can send to the U.S.A., but it is better to correct him to the standard point by friendly gestures. We can reject anyone, that is very easy, but to reform him that requires great skill and tact and if you can reform him there by kind words and dealings, that is best.
1975 Correspondence
Please accept my blessings. I am due receipt of your letter dated Dec. 27th, 1974 and have noted the contents. Regarding dishonest means being used I have never advised or taught anyone like that. That is not my idea. This record distribution has caused havoc. It should be stopped immediately. I have also asked Hamsaduta to stop it. Book distribution is our real business. If we give them a record, they simply hear some magical sounds and take it for sense gratification, but if they receive one of our books and read even one page, they get eternally benefited. Therefore I am stressing this book distribution, not other things. Stop record selling completely. This is my order.
The incident in Germany has caused havoc all over the world. It is hampering our reputation everywhere. I do not want this record distribution to continue. It must be stopped immediately. I have already informed Hamsaduta. Distributing books is our real business, not these records. Has anyone ever become convinced in Krishna Consciousness by listening to this record? No. He will simply think it is nice magical sounds, that's all. But, if he reads one book, he will be convinced about spiritual life. That is our success. So, stop this record distribution immediately everywhere. And stress book distribution more and more.
1976 Correspondence
Actually these rascals are simply creating magic and jugglery. Even during the time of Krishna, Paundraka was there and Krishna immediately cut of his head. That is the only punishment for them, to immediately cut off the head of such rascals who pose themselves as God. They are simply cheating the people.
Page Title: | Magic (Conversations and Letters) |
Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
Created: | 18 of May, 2011 |
Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=73, Let=7 |
No. of Quotes: | 80 |