Laymen (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"lay man" |"layman" |"layman's" |"laymans" |"laymen" |"laymen's"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. No, everybody was silent. Everybody was silent because everybody believes that life started from matter, all the, in the audience. So I said that "Your basis means life started from matter. That means..." He was saying that when the earth, before the life started, there was no living entities on earth. Then I said, "How do you know there is no living entities on earth?" Then he could not answer.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Very good. Yes. You have to go and lecture all the universities, calling these rascals fools. That will be our mission. They do not know anything and talking all nonsense. That's it. There was nobody to challenge till now. Now we are creating persons to challenge these rascals. That is our credit. Till now whatever nonsense they are talking, people thought, "Oh he is a big scientist." Now our scientist will protest against them, stop them talking all nonsense. That is what we want. If a lay man like me goes and protesting, he may say that "First of all you come to my level, then I shall talk with you." Now, he cannot talk with you like that. Because you are on the level. So challenge all this nonsense. Why they talk nonsense? So later on, other persons, they did not talk with you?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in fact, he was telling that "Kṛṣṇa didn't give me all the procedures, steps, how to do the experiment." He was saying like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why shall I give you? You are a rascal, you are against Kṛṣṇa, why Kṛṣṇa will give you facility? If you are against Kṛṣṇa and you want the credit without Kṛṣṇa, that's not possible. You must be submissive first of all. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you all facilities. Just like we dare to face any chemist, any scientist, any philosopher. Why? On the strength of Kṛṣṇa, we believe that "There is Kṛṣṇa. When I shall talk with him, Kṛṣṇa will give give me intelligence." This is the basics. Otherwise, from qualification, standard, they are very much qualified. We are common laymen before them. But how do we challenge them? Because we know. Just like a small child He can challenge a very big man because he knows, "My father is there." He is catching the hand of the father, and he's sure that "Nobody can do anything to me."

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Fool. Simply childish. Bālaka. What are they gaining? For the last, how many years they are trying? For going to the moon planet?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Russia started in 1957. First sputnik where Gagarin was there...

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five years. So they could not get anything, not a single farthing even. Still, they are doing. Just see, obstinacy. Punaḥ punaś carvita. This is called chewing the chewed. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). They will never be successful. So I am a layman. When I wrote that Easy Journey? In 1950, 67. How many years?

Karandhara: Six years.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not 67, 57. Sixteen years before. They are all childish. I am a layman. It will never be successful. It is already written there in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. Here also, that, some press reporter asked me in San Francisco, when I landed, "What is your position about this moon planet?" "It is simply a waste of time and energy. That's all. You cannot go there."

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But they say there is no form. That is my point.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, they don't know probably, at this moment. But I don't..., I..., we have trouble, at least I have trouble, in understanding whether anybody else knows about soul. According to you...

Prabhupāda: Now, so far we are laymen, we have no instrument to measure. We simply hear from the śāstra and we try to perceive, that's all. But there is something. That measurement very, may be very, very small, but there is the substance. That is our point.

Krishna Tiwari: Right. But, I mean, with due respect to śāstras, after all, in my opinion śāstras are written by very intelligent people, and how so ever intelligent they would have been five thousand years ago, they could not have...

Prabhupāda: Not five thousand years.

Krishna Tiwari: Or ten thousand?

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot calculate.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That, that... Therefore you have to know how to talk with Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be possible. You cannot manufacture. And that is that you can talk with Kṛṣṇa by devotion.

Guest (8): Because apparently, you know, to a layman, this killing wasn't an act which will please Kṛṣṇa, and that, what Arjuna did, kill such a big army and everything, it will... Normally you know, a layman would have thought it won't please Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): What is God to a layman, like me.

Prabhupāda: Layman, well, layman means, we already explained, he's no better than animal. Because layman means one who thinks that "I am this body." He's layman. He has no other information. So layman is equal to animal. So layman's education, layman's advancement is decoration of the dead body. If you decorate a dead body, you can feel satisfaction. But others will laugh, that "What a fool he is, he's decorating a dead body?" Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ, aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Layman's business is decorating this dead body, that's all.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: But the definition of the Absolute Truth is inconceivable, so it must violate the logic.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Karandhara: Their logic...

Prabhupāda: No, it's inconceivable by them, not by us. Therefore we call them fools. It is not inconceivable by us. But so you know the Truth from the Truth, Absolute Truth. A layman or a foolish boy does not know where..., which side the sun will rise. His father can say, "This side it will rise." That is the difference. Because he knows how to suggest which side, because there is reddish, how do you say? Illumination. He knows that "This side it will rise," by the symptom. Both of them, the foolish man and the intelligent man, just at present do not see that where is the sun. But the intelligent man knows "Here is the sun," although the sun is not visible both to the intelligent and foolish man. That intelligence means he knows how to find out where is sun. That is intelligence. And this is not discovery. I am intelligent speaking "This side is sun." It is not my discovery. I have heard from authority that from the eastern direction the sun rises, so I know it.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no, not that. It is different subject. That something is missing within the body, therefore it is dead. So what is your answer? We say something is missing. We shall decide what is that something later on. That something is missing. If you suggest that something is chemical combination, then you do it. Therefore do not know. I say something is missing. If you know, then you replace that something, then you'll know.

Karandhara: What do we say that something is?

Prabhupāda: No... That everyone, any layman can understand, that this dead body is unconscious because something is missing. Any layman can understand. If you know that, then you replace it. I don't say I know, but I say something is missing.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: You have to accept also that. But if you know that something, then you replace it. Otherwise you also do not know. Then why you are talking of big, big word? You do not know.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Then your attempt is successful. (break) We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful. (break) ...uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is, because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman, we have simply said, "Kṛṣṇa Supreme." That's all. Never mind what I am. (break) ...janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is understanding

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that there are about nine billion cells. They are called neurons.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body's machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: (BG 18.61) "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has asked the material energy "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That's all. Give him a..." yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine. They are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; "All right, give it." That is going on.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, when there is body dead, no hair grows.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's a nice example.

Prabhupāda: They can use some bombastic word but we layman, we see this is the position. And you do not know how it is being done but the energy is there in you. That is called acintya-śakti, inconceivable energy. That is there. Now you shave every morning and next morning, again millions of hairs. You do not know how it is being happening. But it is happening, and this is called acintya-śakti. From Kṛṣṇa such big, big things are coming out. Even Kṛṣṇa may not know but Kṛṣṇa has got the inconceivable by which it is coming. The same example.

Rūpānuga: People will speculate so many theories as to why the hairs are coming out but then after some time they will see that theory is wrong they'll have to present a new one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their rascaldom.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing. But then how that is moving, we have to settle. But matter, as itself, does not move.

Rāmeśvara: 'Cause they say that within the, within the earth...

Prabhupāda: That is within. You have got very good sight within. But I am a layman. I want to see that it is moving. (laughter) You have got some imaginary eyes. You can see.

Madhudviṣa: They say that's advancement.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: Advancement of science.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to become blind is advancement, certainly. When this is... Who will say it is moving unless he's a fool? Nonsense. (laughter) Moving, that's all right. Everyone... The whole world is moving. That is another thing. But as it is, why, where it is moving?

Rāmeśvara: They're talking about the atomic structure, that the atoms are moving.

Prabhupāda: And therefore it is moving.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: But there would be a lot of lawyers to do...

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I am talking of yourself. If one does not know what is good, then how he will do good? The first business is that he must know what is good. Then he can do something good. Otherwise what is the use of jumping like monkey? He must know. Because you are a lawyer you know how to deal with law, you can do good. But a layman who is not a lawyer, how he can do good? So therefore, anyone who is posing himself as leader to do good to the society, he must know first of all what is good.

Guest 2: Would you say that the lawyer can do good whether or not he believes in God?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I am saying that if you are not a lawyer, if you have no study of the law, how can you do good?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is the argument? You have stopped. That is your failure, that's all. You can argue to the laymen, foolish men, but we will say you have stopped; therefore it is failure. All bogus propaganda is now stopped.

Devotee (3): They are saying the moon isn't worth develop...

Prabhupāda: Now they cannot say anything because they are failure. Anything they say, that is all foolishness. They cannot say anything. Once you are failure, you have no value, anything you say.

Harikeśa: I've heard the argument that when they are going to the moon, they are always in contact, bouncing off these sonar waves and radar waves off the moon's surface, and when they are coming near, they can even see from their little portholes the moon's surface, the same moon that they see on the earth.

Prabhupāda: They say all nonsense. That's all. (chuckles) Why the earth is not brilliant at night like the moon?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. First of all forget religion. I am talking of science. That a boy is becoming young man and young man is becoming old man, this is science. What do you think, Principal? It is science or religion? Does it mean that only the Hindus become old men and the Christians do not?

Prof. Olivier: Yes... My problem as a simple layman is how to make God relevant to the issues of the day. But since God's relevancy can only be related to the permanent, the problem becomes even more complicated. But I have to deal with practical situations. Everybody in a university...

Prabhupāda: This is practical situation, that...

Prof. Olivier: Yes, I would agree. It is one of the neglected avenues of learning that we have not been able scientifically, I think...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to a school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness. That is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see. Therefore, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ. Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. So where is that qualification? You are not lover of God, you are lover of dog, so how you can see God? You can see dog. That's all. Go on seeing dog perpetually. And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, truth is there, but they cannot present the truth rightly. That is rascaldom. Truth is there; that is certain. But they cannot present the truth in right way.

Dr. Patel: You mean they are groping in the dark.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is rascal. How things are happening—every ten years they are changing their theory. And that has been explained by, not by a layman like me. The Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he has explained. He has concluded Darwin's theory completely wrong. You have read that small booklet?

Dr. Patel: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And he has given reason, quotation, how simply he's speculator.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam, yes. I am layman. I cannot say why I have got this fever. You can... By analysis, you can say. So therefore śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Śāstra says, "You analyze his blood, and if these symptoms are there, therefore this disease is there." That is śāstra, not conjecture. You don't diagnose by simply imagining. No. That is not scientific treatment. You analyze blood, stool and this, and find out what is the germ. Then you analyze. And in the śāstra the symptoms are there, analytical, that "This kind of disease, the symptoms will be this, this, this, this." That is śāstra, not conjecture. Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "This rascal has infected this body on account of his particular connection with the modes of material nature." In the smṛti-śāstra it is stated how one gets tuberculosis, how one gets this disease, that disease, different pāpa.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: These things are being done by so many other people, and we are doing something which is ultimate. The hospital gives some medicine when there is some disease, but that does not mean there will be no disease. Can they guarantee that "I give you this medicine—no more disease." We are giving that medicine, that no more disease. That is the best social work. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). We are giving this medicine, that after leaving this body.... So far this body is concerned, somehow or other you pass on. And as soon as you give up this body—tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9)—you'll have no more birth. And if you have no more birth, there will be no more death. And if you have no more birth, then there will be no more disease. This is our prescription. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Not that he is finished. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is our program. So your question is answered or not? Huh? Your question is answered or not? Your question is answered or not?

Indian man: Not fully.

Acyutānanda: Do you understand?

Indian man: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: Why it is not fully?

Indian man: It is, after all, question put by a layman.

Prabhupāda: Why you should "layman"? Why should not "wise man"? Why you should insist to remain a layman? Why you are persisting to remain a layman? Why?

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: (break) .... accepted the sun was moving, then they wouldn't be able to prove that...

Prabhupāda: And the.... And the moon is not seen also for fifteen days in the morning (month?). As a layman, we should say that, as the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, the sun is also rising from this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.

Pañca-draviḍa: If that's true, then how does.... What about the changes in the moon's face? Sometimes...

Prabhupāda: True or nontrue, I am layman. I am saying that if the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, so sun is also rising from this side and going to this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Common sense.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, I am a layman. Actually sun is moving, but they say fixed up.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's right. You do not know what is God, after all. "There may be." Then who is going to hear you? You do not know. Your statement is also another story.

Pañca-draviḍa: I am not a scientist.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The scientists, if they say "There may be God," that means he's a rascal. Scientist means, whatever he will say, that is accurate. That is scientist. What is the difference between a layman and scientist? That is the difference. The scientist will say what is actual fact. That is scientist.

Pañca-draviḍa: They only accept...

Prabhupāda: That is not scientist, that he..., "maybe, perhaps..." That is not scientist.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we don't say. I am simply asking that how do you glorify flesh and bone? I do not know. I am asking you.

Guest (2): I don't know. God knows, is what I'm saying.

Prabhupāda: How is that? You do not know your system of glorification?

Guest (2): Well, glorification comes...

Prabhupāda: I am asking—I am a layman—that you say "glorified flesh and bone," but you say, "I don't know."

Guest (4): Can I ask a question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4): Do you consider.... Is it your Deity? Do you consider that glorified?

Prabhupāda: No, the Deity is the form of the Lord, but when you say, "the bone and flesh," so how we can accept as Deity?

Guest (4): Now, you say that the Deity is the form of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Education means they must learn to sacrifice everything for the topmost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say the topmost is the general mass of everyone, the proletariat, all people combined.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, general. But you know how to make general mass of people happy. That example we give, that the whole body.... You can make the whole body happy simply by supplying food to the stomach. That is the best way. And if you want to make happy every part of the body, individual, that will never be successful. You must know where to touch. Just like the huge machine is going on by the expert manipulation of the pilot. He is pushing one.... Works. Immediately the plane becomes.... It is.... So you must know where to touch. If.... I am layman, I am put into that, then, instead of putting here, I shall put my here, and then it will go down. "Ohhh." So finished. So this is nature's way, that you supply food to the stomach, and the energy will be distributed every part. You supply water to the root of the tree, it will be supplied everywhere. That you must know. Otherwise, if you.... Just like if you do not know, a expert, not expert, so he's advised, "Give to, the food to the stomach." "And in where?" "No, in the hole of the body." If he does not, which hole, then he will put somewhere, sometimes here, sometimes here, sometimes here, sometimes here. It will never act. Then you must know the science how to make everyone happy. If you do not know that, then your imperfect imagination will never be done, and that has become everywhere. Why there is difference of opinion even both of the communistic countries? Why there is difference of opinion between Russia and China? Because both of you do not know how to make everyone happy. That is the point.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: When I interviewed you perhaps five or six years ago, it was before there were reports of the astronauts landing on the moon, and I asked you at that time if you thought, what you thought about it, and you said that, as I recall, that they would not be able to land or explore, because spirits or creatures that lived on the moon would not allow it. The reports of course said that indeed people did land and explore and return safely. I understand you have further thoughts about that (laughter) and you've even written a lot about it. I wonder if you could tell me, not at great length perhaps, but what your belief about those events is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From the.... That question I was discussing the other day. In the common sense, gross sense, that all over the world, they accept Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in this way Saturday last. So why these arrangement? Sunday first and Monday second, and nobody could reply it. But as a layman I can conclude that Sun planet is first and the moon planet is next. So if you cannot go to the sun planet, which is ninety-three million miles away, how you can go to the moon planet within four days? Nobody could answer me. Can you answer?

Reporter: Well, I don't think it's worth the answer now, but I'm wondering what your response is.

Prabhupāda: But this is the arrangement all over the world. Sunday first, Monday second, then Tuesday. So Sun, Moon, Mars, Jupiter, in this way. Last Saturn. This is the arrangement of the planets. So if this is the arrangement of the planets, moonday next to..., moon next to sun, and if you cannot go to the sun, how can you go to the moon?

Reporter: Do you, in other words, do you believe that astronauts landed somewhere?

Prabhupāda: That is next question. First of all, whether you actually went to the moon, that is the first question. You have to conclude that you did not, because the sun planet is first, the moon planet is second. You cannot go to the sun planet, ninety-three millions of miles, how can you go to the moon planet?

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (3): The so-called intelligent people in this country, like the professors in universities, they sometimes argue that the progressive value of life is to search for knowledge, the quest of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is the ultimate knowledge, what is God. You do not know. You are still professing as professor, as learned scholar, but you do not know what is God. Also you write, "In God We Trust." What is this nonsense? Where is your professorship? You explain God. Suppose I am a layman. I am asking "Why you have written in the bill? Please let me know what is God." Do you know? Then where is your knowledge?

Devotee (3): But they say they are looking for it.

Prabhupāda: That means you are not in knowledge, and still you are a professor. You become a student like me. Why you are occupying the post of a professor? That means you are cheating. You are calling yourself as professor, the teacher, and you do not know? Give up this post; come to my position.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: They say that real knowledge is to know that there is no such thing as absolute knowledge but simply this process of searching for knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No. That is ignorance. As knowledge you are receiving... Just like I've come to you, I'm a layman, I've come to you for knowledge. Unfortunately, you have not received knowledge from that source. Therefore you are useless. I cannot have knowledge from you. Knowledge means to take it from higher personality. That is knowledge. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Knowledge means you have to receive it from a superior person. Otherwise, there is no knowledge.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, for example, if one is learning how to count or how to read...

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has to learn it from the teacher. Two plus two equal to four. One, two, three, four, like that.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Brahmatīrtha: Well I couldn't say. They've been there they say.

Prabhupāda: They say, you believe, but we are common man, lay man, we say that if you have gone there, why you do not live there?

Brahmatīrtha: Yes, they just bring back rocks to show us, we have rocks here.

Prabhupāda: If there is rock, if there is sand, then why don't you colonise there? What is their answer? If there is same sand, same rock there, then why not... (break) ...some money and can bring some sand and bluff people that you have gone to moon planet. And people are satisfied, they're paying for another excursion to the Mars. This is going on. If you have gone there, there is land. If you fly in the sky and if you get a land then you can stay there. And because you cannot stay there, you come back again. So their... The Māyāvādīs position is there, āruhya kṛcchreṇa param, they merge into the impersonal Brahman but there is no place to stay, they come down again to this material world. You may go many thousands and millions of miles in the sky but you want to stay somewhere. But if you cannot get any place to stay then again you come to this Moscow and New York. So our enquiry is that if you have gone there, then why don't you stay there? What is the answer? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Maharaj?

Kīrtanānanda: They say the atmosphere is not suitable.

Prabhupāda: Then why rascal, you go there? (laughter) And spend so much money, rascal? You could not understand the atmosphere is not good for us, go there and spend so much money?

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The more people will be sinful, the place will be dark with cloudy. Nature will always disturb. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). They will not be happy. It is not possible. This is the only way to become happy. So, so far as possible, I have given you some framework. Now you fill up. Make it a nice building. Yes. All right. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Viśākhā was wondering who..., if you have any idea or choice who should do the Hindi translation or Bengali translation and speaking for the film like this. Did you have anyone in particular in mind, or inquiry should be made?

Prabhupāda: It requires some professional man. Laymen cannot go with the film.

Hari-śauri: It needs a trained speaker.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: Needs someone who's trained to speak nicely.

Prabhupāda: Anyone can do. We can do also.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So what it means is that in order to understand this distinction between life and matter one must be a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We raise the question, we challenge these rascals because we are following the path of devotion. We are not scientists. And we could not challenge unless we were convinced. How it is possible? Suppose I am layman, how I am challenging these big, big scientists? It is not... Because we have known it through devotional service, so this is science. That is the difference.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Life from egg, chicken. It gives life within week. So why shall I wait for millions of billions of years? You show, you make some combination of chemical and show that life is coming within a week.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to defeat this. So in the next slide, in subsequent slides, Sadāpūta will show some mathematical calculation showing that this is completely wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is wrong. We can see, even a layman can see. No question of mathematician, a layman can see, here within a week we see life, why shall I wait for millions of billions of years?

Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is described in the Vedas that life begins as a pea size. In the body, the womb of the mother, the human life is only pea size, emulsification, and then in nine months it develops into this very small series of chemicals and everything, into a full body.

Prabhupāda: No, no. In the Bhāgavata it is stated that life symptoms begins after five days.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: We have another mentally retarded person in India, Sai Baba.

Prabhupāda: Yes, magic.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have that newspaper from South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, we are not after all this magic. We are laymen. We do not want this magic, neither we want to show magic. We simply, as canvasser of Kṛṣṇa, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "Sir, Kṛṣṇa says like this, you do like that," that's all. If you like, you can do; otherwise let us do our own business. We don't show any magic, neither we speak anything which is not in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is little success, it is due to this secret, that's all. (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa says that He is Supreme, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So we are preaching, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme," that's all.

Dr. Sukla: Therefore you are doing so with tremendous success.

Prabhupāda: Yes, people say that "Swamiji, you have done wonder, you have..." so on, so on, so on. But I do not know what is wonder. I know it is certain that I have not adulterated. That much I know. But I do not know how to play wonders. That I do not know. But I am certain that I have not adulterated what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And I study everything by the crucial test of Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That's all.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Then they say "Yes, we may be limited and our inductive process may be imperfect, but, you may criticize, but you have to show us something better."

Prabhupāda: I may not show, but as I give you example, that you have manufactured 747 and God has manufactured mosquito. You do that. We are... I am layman, but I see there is another, better manufacturer than you. I may be layman, but I can see that you cannot do it. If you say you can do it, then you are rascal. I must say that you are rascal. First of all do, then speak. You take your credit, as much as you have done. But if you want to take the place of God, then we must slap you right and left. (laughter) We cannot give better credit than God to anyone. That is our business. Asamordhva. There is nobody equal to God, nobody is greater than God. This is our preaching. So you cannot claim equal to God. No question of becoming greater than God. You cannot become even equal to God. You are always under. You admit it, then we have no quarrel with you. You admit that "Yes, we are under God," then we are friends.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give... They think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant, it cannot be vacant. We do not find any part of the world vacant. There is living entities. This earth planet is part of the universe, and the moon is also part of the universe. If it is not vacant, how that can be vacant? You have got dust there, we have got dust here; you have got rocks there, here we have got rocks. And why it is vacant? We find in the dust also there is life. When we walk on the beach, it is simply sand, there are so many crabs. They are immediately flying, running, "Here is a man coming. Enter into the hole." So even the dust, in the sand, there is life. So why not there? In the water there is life, within the sand there is life, in the air there is life, everywhere there is life. Why it should be vacant? Hmm? What is the opinion of the scientists? How...? We are layman, talking like layman, but why there should not be life? And in the śāstra we get there is life. Not only moon, every planet is full of living entities. Jagat-kīrṇa(?). There is human being, there is animal, everything. How it can be vacant, God's creation?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we are layman, and we follow Kṛṣṇa's instruction that cow, milk is very important, we drink the cow's milk, therefore she is mother. So at least she should be saved from being killed. This is common sense. Apart from other big, big reasoning, we take it, Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya, so we take it. Besides that, so far vegetables are concerned, Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "If anyone offers Me even patram," patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam,"I eat them." So we take Kṛṣṇa's prasādam. So Kṛṣṇa says "You give Me these vegetables, plants." So we offer Him, and then we take. Besides that, everybody has to eat something. So generally, food grains, vegetables, they are recommended for eating purpose. And those who want to eat meat or fish, they can do so, but at least they can avoid the important life of cow. That is recommended. So far we are concerned, we are eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam, foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa, and this, there is no such thing as meat or fish, or egg, but we are living. Not that because we do not eat meat or fish, we are dying. We can eat very easily. Anna. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Actually, if we take food grains like wheat, rice, pulses, vegetables, fruits, milk, that is quite sufficient, nutritious foodstuff, full with vitamins and, what is called, protein, carbohydrate. That is sufficient. Why should we kill? At least, cow? That is our request, because Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. And in His practical life He played as a cowherd boy giving protection to other cows. There is a picture, Kṛṣṇa is sitting, and the cow and the calf is feeling very safety. Kṛṣṇa is embracing. So because we want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, we want to follow His personal behavior and instruction.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He has taken photograph of it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughter) Yes. "...which is lathered up and shaved with a safety razor (right side). Even more striking than their saffron dhotis and shawls is the ISKCON men's practice of shaving their heads with the exception of one long lock in the rear, known as the śikhā. The first reaction of the layman is "Why do they do it?" The next is "How do they do it?" The Hare Kṛṣṇaś themselves advance three different answers to the first question. Some say that in countries that have hot climates, the religious have always shaved their heads to insure cleanliness. A clean body reflects a pure spirit."

Prabhupāda: One letter should be written to him that "You have taken so much trouble to describe Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, so thank you for your patience. Now we shall request you to read our books and review it. That will be real presentation of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement. Now you have studied superficially, and if you seriously study our books, you'll get more knowledge and you'll be able to give description of the movement more definitely."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to hear what else he has to say?

Prabhupāda: Umhm.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Forty million pounds are being spent in Germany to take care of dog. This is advancement of civilization.

Mrs. Sahani: And how to surrender to God, how to do this?

Prabhupāda: Simply surrender to God, immediately. He says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66).

Mrs. Sahani: For a layman who doesn't know anything.

Prabhupāda: People do not know. Therefore God comes personally to teach you. Why don't you take the teaching? Why don't you take the teaching? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66), why don't you become fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: If you don't realize here is Bhagavad-gītā as it is, Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in India. If you don't take interest, who can induce you? If you don't take interest at all, those who are preaching Bhagavad-gītā, they are making different interpretation.

Interviewer (3): I am a layman, I do not know the importance...

Prabhupāda: You are not a layman, you are a representative of paper.

Guest (2): He doesn't mean that he's a layman, but suppose he is a layman...

Prabhupāda: Layman, he must go to a person who is experienced.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. If you are layman you must go to a person who has seen the truth. If you remain at home, then how you can see?

Guest (2): But I am so preoccupied with my...

Prabhupāda: You are taking so many education...

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: How does one decide... There are so many translations. How does one decide...

Prabhupāda: That depends on your philosophy. You are reading so many books. How do you select, "This is nice." That depends on your philosophy. But if you accept it that it is spoken by God, then there is no argument. But why should you accept it, spoken by God? You read it, whether how much logical, how much full of knowledge. Then you can say. The same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "Within this body there is the soul, and because the soul is there, therefore body is changing." So anyone can... Any layman can understand. Things are there like that. So there is no difficulty. If we take, "Oh, this description, the transmigration of the soul-Hindu idea." Why Hindu idea? It is science. As soon as we consider it "Hindu," then it becomes sectarian. Then you will say, "I have got my Christian idea. Why shall I take your Hindu idea?"

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: No, but one thing. Is it possible for a saint at certain stage of sādhana to perform miracles?

Prabhupāda: That is cheating. Here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, you don't find anywhere that you show miracles. He says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). He never says that you show miracles. These are all rascals. You become His bhakta. That is the greatest miracle. And he guarantees, mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaṁ. That is miracle. What is this miracle, cheating other people by showing some magic or jugglery of words. These are miracles? That is cheating.

Indian man: But to a layman what would you preach?

Prabhupāda: Layman, if he does not go to the right man he'll suffer. What can be done?

Indian man: But where should it begin?

Prabhupāda: Begin when one who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta. Begin there.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa as God, that is your business. But Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvara, god... There are many gods, but the Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (1): The whole problem... We have not read Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So now read it. No, it is better late than never. You have never read Bhagavad-gītā; now read it. The movement is there for this purpose. Now read it.

Guest (8) (Indian man): The simple version is there also for a layman like us who do not know?

Prabhupāda: Even layman, if you offer your obeisances to God, it does it require any...?

Guest (8): I don't mean, sir. I mean about Bhagavad-gītā, the book. It is readable version, I mean? We don't know Sanskrit very well.

Prabhupāda: It is explained in English.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Superior than the matter. That how you can deny it? Kṛṣṇa says clearly, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāṁ, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). They cannot... They're so dull, they cannot understand it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their heads are filled with dung.

Prabhupāda: Two things are there already. Any layman can understand. A person living—a person dead. So why he is dead? Something is missing. So that missing element is important or this body is important? These rascals cannot understand even, so dull brain.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So they know that the scientific...?

Girirāja: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's on the basis of science.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Scientific.

Prabhupāda: Now our commonsense reasoning, that there is children, there is mother—where is the father? We are laymen. Can you say, without father, the children is born?

Girirāja: No.

Prabhupāda: Can you say?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Impossible.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's not possible.

Prabhupāda: That's not possible. So those who are denying the existence of God, they are rascals, all fools. The grass is growing from the land, and grass is eaten by animals. In this way we are all children. And you say, "mother's land." That is a common saying, "mother's..." So mother is there. We are children. Who is the father? Reply this common sense.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, he, er... A little...

Prabhupāda: No, you make some movie.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that was what I was discussing with Yadubara. That movie seems to be little too dilute.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not made by scientific men. Layman-made. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We discussed some point before he made movie, but we made very good point, but he didn't include any of those, what we suggested. At the beginning he has started. Then everything was some sort of a popularization of...

Girirāja: I thought it was like the new style of Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are... University students, they may be educated. They'll also make a... Don't make it a laughing stock.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, very little is there. Just started, then finished. So I said, "If it can be done, it can be a little elaborated. Give some more authentic examples, a little more discussion and some philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it's too short. And in a short time...

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is made by layman, so it is not valuable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yadubara is coming to see you at the end of the massage today, so maybe you could give him some further direction.

Prabhupāda: What I can do? He'll do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just if you tell him that he should start this movie over again.

Prabhupāda: He should not produce such thing without consulting the scientific men.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And it was not possible for me to digest. (laughs) Somebody else helped me to... I am a layman. I do not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you write it?

Prabhupāda: That somebody, Kṛṣṇa, helped me. That He manufactured.

Yaśodānandana: And these mountains, they extend to the beaches. "It is considered, according to the Bhāga..."

Prabhupāda: When I was writing, I was praying Kṛṣṇa that "I do not actually accommodate all this knowledge. Please help me." Yes. That's all right.