Prabhupāda: ...one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmeṇa yena pasave samānaḥ. They're as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they're making big, big plans-United Nations, this, that.
Dr. Patel: This is a problem. It's committed from the poor nations of the world, this United Nations.
Prabhupāda: There is no education for making people a human being.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hagel and Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which I mean agrees with the matter. The very first basis on which this rascaldom is, I mean the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No?
Prabhupāda: Hindu-Muslim teaching...
Dr. Patel: No, I mean sanātana dharma of this country.
Prabhupāda: Sanātana dharma, there is no teaching; it is already there.
Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it.
Prabhupāda: There is no concoction.
Dr. Patel: This concoction has come out from there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, everywhere. In your country also there are so many parties...
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx...
Prabhupāda: Karl Marx maybe. Even your Gandhi-ism, that is also concoction. Gandhi invented nonviolence; it is also concoction. It is impossible. Everyone is doing this—something manufacturing. That is not sanātana dharma. Sanātana dharma is never manufactured. It is already there. You have to accept it, that's all. Otherwise everyone is manufacturing some concoction. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, "Fight." And Gandhi is teaching from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Just see! Is it possible?
Dr. Patel: The will of God is the real thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His will is supreme. Whatever He says, that's all. As soon as you manufacture, everything is spoiled.
Dr. Patel: It is fractured by man instead of manufacturing. Fractured, broken.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānas te'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Pisa tantrya, under the laws of God or nature, everyone is tied, hands and legs, and he's thinking independently, "I can do that."
Dr. Patel: But slowly and slowly, sir, the modern science is trying to prove that sanātana dharma, the existence of God everywhere. Which in our times, if we respect scientists for their...
Prabhupāda: "They are trying to prove" means so long they are rascals...
Dr. Patel: They are rascals. I quite agree with you. You have caught my rascals. (both laughing)
Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "progressing," that means they are rascals. Unless one is rascal, what is the meaning of progress? Hm? Rascal requires progress.
Dr. Patel: Whether they do progress or regress we don't know, but...
Prabhupāda: No, that progress means still rascals. After ten years they'll make no... This is progress. So they have no standard knowledge, and that is very much palatable, modern progress. Mūḍha.