Karandhara: Step aside a little bit so that Prabhupāda can... If you stay to the side a little bit, you box Prabhupāda in.
Umāpati: There's some austerity, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?
Umāpati: They're sleeping on the beach.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of their sleeping? (laughter)
Umāpati: They save their rent money.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is his misfortune. That is a young man's fashion in your country.
Umāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.
Umāpati: Yes. It comes from a time when we admire swashbuckling and being free, so-called, in the material sense.
Prabhupāda: That is reaction. The rich man is trying to become a poor man. "Let me see what is the advantage of the poor man." That's right. Your country does not require to lie down like that. You have got enough arrangement. But it is a fashion. That's all. So fashion is not austerity. That is sense gratification. It appears like austerity, but it is sense gratification. Real austerity is not to make any sense gratification, simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is real austerity.
Umāpati: So if Kṛṣṇa required us to sleep on the beach, then...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Umāpati: ...that would not be... if Kṛṣṇa required us to sleep on the beach, that would not be sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: No. And why Kṛṣṇa will require like that? Do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is a madman?
Umāpati: No.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, I was thinking that too. Why would Kṛṣṇa require any of his devotees to sleep on the beach?
Prabhupāda: He wants to see His devotees are comfortably situated. Why He'll unnecessarily ask that "Go to the beach and lie down?"
Umāpati: You say that Kṛṣṇa stands there smiling very sweetly, playing the flute.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Umāpati: So why should he require us to go through austerities like...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya means he must show by example. Āpani ācari bhakti śikhāimu sabāre. Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Umāpati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Umāpati: ...who benefits by austerity?
Prabhupāda: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?
Umāpati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.
Prabhupāda: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?
Umāpati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So...
Yaśomatīnandana: A sincere atheist...
Umāpati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.
Prabhupāda: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.
Yaśomatīnandana: Believe in God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: So the honest ones become devotees?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: We were all...
Prabhupāda: If he's honest, then he must take.
Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you, if, if, if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Kṛṣṇa. That is honesty. If after convincing him, he does not take, that is dishonesty.
Umāpati: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is dishonesty.
Umāpati: But there's a quality in this age that one does not accept defeat philosophically, philosophical defeat. If one is presented with philosophically sound arguments, it is a tendency today to refuse to accept the superiority of Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy over any other philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Umāpati: It's very popular to put all philosophies in the same... "Well, that's philosophy," they say. They say that "Everybody has his opinion. That's your opinion," they say.
Prabhupāda: No.
Umāpati: So no one will accept any kind of superior philosophy. It's very difficult to discuss these things among them.
Prabhupāda: No, then everyone, if becomes superior, then where is the question of philosophy? If everyone is superior himself, then there is no question of philosophy. Is there any necessity? You are superior, I am superior; then where is the question of discussing philosophy?
Umāpati: That is trying to be God. He's trying... Then we are always God.
Prabhupāda: Then philosophy becomes null and void. As soon as everyone becomes his own authority, then philosophy becomes null and void. There is no necessity of philosophy.
Umāpati: That is the difficulty of our age.
Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. Mūḍhāḥ. If you do not accept philosophy, you do not accept authority, that means all rascals.
Hṛdayānanda: You said, "alpa-medhasaḥ..."
Prabhupāda: Outlaws, they are called outlaws. Just the outlaws, they do not accept any authority, government authority, or authority of the law, they're called outlaws. Rejected.
Umāpati: Yeah, well, this is a nation of outlaws.
Prabhupāda: So they are rejected. If anyone, everyone becomes his own authority, then it is chaos.
Umāpati: Well, that is the fashion today.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fashion means...
Umāpati: It's called "Do your own thing."
Prabhupāda: No, who are you to say me, "Do your own thing"? Then you become master. You are directing me. Why should you direct me, "Do your own thing"? You stop. Don't talk. If your philosophy accepted that everyone is authority, you cannot say, "Do your own work." Why should you say? Then you become authority. You should not speak at all.
Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.
Prabhupāda: What is that philosophy?
Karandhara: That "Do your own thing" is also a philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a philosophy. Why you are dictating? You'd better stop. Don't talk. That's all. You have no facility for talking. Have you?
Umāpati: No, I haven't.
Prabhupāda: Then? You keep yourself satisfied with your own philosophy. I keep myself satisfied with my philosophy. There is no need of talking.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: And that is good. If a foolish man does not talk, it is good for him and good for others. Because he'll talk foolish. Better not to talk. That is good. That... Infectious diseased man... what is called? Quarantine.
Karandhara: Quarantine.
Prabhupāda: He's put separately so that he may not poison others. He may not poison others. So that is the position of the self-sufficient authority.
Yaśomatīnandana: In Gujarati we call it: bhanji moti laksmim.(?) When the palm is closed it is worth lakh rupees, but when it is open, it doesn't mean anything. A foolish person, when he talks, he reveals everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Foolish person means busy rascal. There are four kinds of division: lazy intelligent and busy intelligent and lazy rascal and busy rascal. The first-class man is lazy intelligent, and second class, busy intelligent, and third class, lazy rascal, and fourth class, busy rascal. A rascal, if he's busy, then what he will do? He'll simply do harm. That's all.
Karandhara: Create havoc.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: Create havoc.
Prabhupāda: Havoc, create havoc. Just as they are doing now. All rascals, they are very busy.
Yaśomatīnandana: Creating atom bombs.
Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?
Devotee: I'm not sure, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Karandhara: It's probably close to that.
Prabhupāda: Eh? At least fifty-percent. Eh?
Karandhara: Drunkards, debauchers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Criminals.
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). What is the time?
Hṛdayānanda: Quarter to seven.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So we can...?
Karandhara: We can walk around a little bit.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Umāpati: So how... Is it a waste of time then to present Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy to someone who believes in doing your own thing? Do you think that that is a...?
Prabhupāda: No. It is, it is... We should push Kṛṣṇa consciousness as disinfecting agent. They're all infected, the whole world. So by chanting you disinfect.
Umāpati: Just by our presence chanting then?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore chanting is so important. Philosophy later on. First of all, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart.
Devotees: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.
Umāpati: Oh. Jaya.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.
Umāpati: That is the mystical process of this movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyāsī, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (aside:) That's all right. Why water is here?
Karandhara: I don't know, Prabhupāda. It's a low spot.
Prabhupāda: A Vaiṣṇava's first qualification that he's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Vaiṣṇava cannot be unhappy. That Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that "I have no problem. I am unhappy seeing these people who are simply engaged in false activities and they do not care for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore I am unhappy." This is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. Not that "I am saved. That's all right." That is materialism. "Let others go to hell. I am saved." That is materialism. A Vaiṣṇava should think always, "Oh, so many people are suffering. What I am doing for them?" That is Vaiṣṇava. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also said by scientists. They also say that "People are suffering. So we are trying to make them happy."
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but if you do not know, how you'll make them happy? You'll create havoc.