Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of these creature don't even have hearts.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the insects don't even have hearts.
Prabhupāda: And how do you say? They have everything. You have no intelligence to understand. Everything, all anatomic physiology is there, even the small full stop. You cannot see even, microbe. That is God's creation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mean to say...
Prabhupāda: I have seen very minute, walking very..., exactly like a big...
Guru-kṛpā: In Vṛndāvana, when we were staying at Bon's place, there was big colony of ants. Ants, thousands of them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got all the sense, all the sympathy. For eating, sleeping, mating, they have got all intelligence.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What I mean to say is, physiologically speaking, at least from biological viewpoint, some of these creatures don't even have hearts. They're much easier to manufacture, the parts of their bodies.
Prabhupāda: You say there is no heart just like you say no soul. That is your vers.... I say that "When he is doing everything like a human being he has got everything." It is your insufficient knowledge that you say that.... Just like you say there is no soul. But that is your insufficient knowledge. That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61). When Īśvara is in everyone's heart, how you can.... Hṛd-deśe. How you say there is no heart? That is nonsense, another nonsense.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So this is speaking of the material heart.
Prabhupāda: Material, spiritual, you do not know anything. You don't talk. Better you become silent.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe, specifically said, "within the heart." The.... Even a germlike, what is called, atom, less than atom, there is heart. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, hṛd-deśe?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe. Every living entity.
Prabhupāda: Eh? And you say there is no.... You are our student. You are saying there is no heart. That means you do not carefully read.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's there, but is that the heart of the soul or the heart of the gross material body?
Prabhupāda: Then.... Heart there is, as you have got heart. What you are? The same constitution.
Hariśauri: In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad it describes how they're sitting side by side.
Prabhupāda: The same constitution of the body. Otherwise there is no question of heart.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've just challenged the whole field of biology also.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the.... I say they're nonsense, rascals. They say that there is no.... And what is their knowledge? We don't give any value to their knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says clearly, hṛd-deśe 'rjuna. And this body is just like a yantra, machine. So as machine means, moving machine means it must have wheel, it must have sitting place.... Everything is there, machine.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that even the plants and trees also have a heart.
Prabhupāda: Everything. That is proved scientifically. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved. There is a part(?). What is that? Spi...? Begins the word, the machine, the record?
Devotee (2): Spirograph.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the word begins with s. Spirograph or like that. You do not know? They smear with black, what is called, carbon, and the fine...
Devotee 2: Cardiograph.
Prabhupāda: Cardiograph, like that.