Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda? Today I want to discuss about the manifestation of the matter from pradhāna. Now Lord Kapiladeva describes that pradhāna is the undifferentiated sum total of material elements.
Prabhupāda: Mahat-tattva?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, pradhāna. Then from pradhāna, by the action of time this mahat-tattva is generated. Now we were a little confused about that. He said by the impregnation of the Lord's internal potency there is hiraṇmaya, is produced within mahat-tattva, and this hiraṇmaya is self-effulgent.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's effulgent.
Prabhupāda: Hiraṇmaya?
Hari-śauri: Effulgent.
Prabhupāda: Oh, effulgent, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now our point is whether this hiraṇmaya... In the mahat-tattva, the relationship between these two and pradhāna, how does that relate each other? It's not very clear in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you're not very clear, this point. It said from pradhāna, by the impregnation with the Lord's internal potency, the hiraṇmaya is produced. That's actually the beginning of the injection of jīvas within these material modes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is little complicated. So is it not clear from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is little difficult to understand the phenomenal descriptions.
Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Nityānanda-tattva? You can read it, you'll get some clue.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We also get some clue from First Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the puruṣa incarnations, where it explains about tattva. But there is a difference between... Now our understanding is this: pradhāna, both pradhāna and mahat-tattva, they are eternal, though they are material manifestations.
Prabhupāda: Everything eternal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, eternal in the sense that it's different from prakṛti. Now prakṛti is, when it is completely manifested...
Prabhupāda: Prakṛti, pradhāna, puruṣa, these things are little complicated.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we wanted to clarify this, because this is the nice thing that we can show that matter comes from life. This is the source.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sa īkṣata, sa asṛjata, by the glance of Mahā-Viṣṇu... Eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. In the beginning, Nārāyaṇa was there. There was no Lord Śiva, no neither Brahmā. This mantra was there. So originally by the glance...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By the glance of Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: We can prove it that how by the sunshine everything is growing. How it is? Your molecule and so on, so on... You can describe. Actually, from the sunshine the trees are growing, leaves are coming. As soon as there is no sunshine, immediately they fall down, the leaves, and the tree becomes without any leaves. How this happens? The same process. The sunshine produces so many things. Similarly, by the glance of the Supreme, the material nature becomes agitated and the three guṇas become manifest. In this way these are described there. The same process. How from the sunshine the leaves are coming out, what are the molecular changes, if you can study the same process.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) ...with this hiraṇmaya, the relationship between mahat-tattva and the hiraṇmaya is clear, then I think we can have some idea. So we are little confused on this very point. It is also said pradhāna is the twenty-four elements that doesn't contain time.
Prabhupāda: Pradhāna is the ingredient.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is the sum total of the unmanifested material elements. Now from pradhāna actually mahat-tattva is manifested. In mahat-tattva there is a basic difference that there is some, already some manifestations in mahat-tattva.
Rūpānuga: Categories.
Prabhupāda: Total material elements, mahat-tattva.
Rūpānuga: Is that differentiated?
Prabhupāda: Mahat-tattva is differentiated.
Rūpānuga: Different categories?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The time element is there in mahat-tattva, so it is already twenty-five elements there including time. At this stage also, the impregnation of the Lord's internal potency means that the jīvas are already impregnated here from pradhāna. So here the living entities are in pure goodness.
Prabhupāda: The living entities are always in pure goodness. This material covering is separated. The living entities can be freed from material covering at any moment. Just like water and oil, it is always separated, it does not mix. The Vedic mantra also says asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, it is not mixed, but it is covered. That covering can be taken away at any moment simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). I think in First Canto, that description you try to understand, you'll get.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the First Canto in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is not very clear.
Prabhupāda: Then Second Canto, the development of Sṛṣṭi-tattva, there you'll get.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think there is also reference in the Bhagavad-gītā, this hiraṇmaya, because sometimes it's also called Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Brahmajyoti. What?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Brahman, yes. He's called Hiraṇya-garbha, Brahmā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's also said in this state, pradhāna state, the cause and effect are not clearly manifested.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya caritāmṛta, did you refer Nityānanda-tattva?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I'm still...
Prabhupāda: Read it, you'll get clue there. Maybe in the Third Chapter. Bring up here. We shall... First part, take it.
Rūpānuga(?): Ādi-līlā?
Prabhupāda: First part, take it.
Vṛṣākapi(?): Chapter Three?
Prabhupāda: In Muslim country, Christians, or the Americans preaching Hindu religion, it has been taken very seriously in Iran. Three different elements: preaching center is Muhammadan, and the preacher is American, and the cult Hindu. (laughs) So the princess of Iran and her husband, they are, up to date, they are very much appreciating. The daughter of Shah.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, you read the contents.
Rūpānuga: Or the index maybe.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. Chapter Three. "In this chapter the author has fully discussed the reason for the descent of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, after displaying His pastimes as Lord Kṛṣṇa, thought it wise to make His advent in the form of a devotee to explain personally the transcendental mellow reciprocations of service and love between Himself and His servants, friends, parents and fiancees. According to the Vedic literature, the foremost occupational duty for humanity in this age of Kali is nāma-saṅkīrtana, or congregational chanting of the holy name of the Lord. The incarnation for this age especially preaches this process, but only Kṛṣṇa Himself can explain the confidential loving service performed in the four principal varieties of loving affairs between the Supreme Lord and His devotees. Lord Kṛṣṇa therefore personally appeared, with His plenary portions, as Lord Caitanya. As stated in this chapter, only for that purpose did Lord Kṛṣṇa appear personally in Navadvīpa in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja has herein presented much authentic evidence from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and other scriptures to substantiate the identity of..."
Prabhupāda: You are reading Caitanya Mahāprabhu. About Nityānanda, see the contents? No, in the beginning. Chapter where is contents. Nityānanda-tattva.
Rūpānuga: "The Glories of Lord Nityānanda-Balarāma."
Prabhupāda: Fifth Chapter?