Indian guest: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: "Is it safe to compare scientific advancement with Bhāgavata, like Darwin and Bhāgavatam."
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by scientific advancement?
Indian guest: Well, material advancement...
Prabhupāda: Material means it is to be finished. Where is the advancement? You do not want to die, but why you die? Where is your advancement?
Indian guest: No, I fully agree with your interpretation of Bhāgavata, but the comparison between Darwin's discoveries and what is mentioned in Bhāgavata, I don't agree with that. It is already mentioned in Bhāgavata, but Swamijī, you are from a different point of view. So...
Prabhupāda: No, that is a wrong theory. Therefore we say. That is a wrong theory. Darwin is studying this body. He does not know. He has no information of the soul; therefore his knowledge is imperfect. His theory is imperfect. It is a long subject matter. If you want to discuss, you come. We shall discuss. It is a wrong theory. That is not scientific advancement. Science means it must be correct. That is science. If science is theory, that is not science. So Darwin is advocating his theory, "May be like this, perhaps like this." This "perhaps," "maybe," is not science. This is only suggestion. We have to deal with the facts. That is science.
Indian guest: Yes, but as you say, there are two ways of reaching the God. Either through the study of Vedas up to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Through study of Vedas, not study something nonsense. Study of Vedas.
Indian guest: That is up to the level of self-analysis, because it is that time when we compare.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Self-analysis, if you analyze yourself, if you think yourself, meditate, study your finger, "Am I this finger?" the answer will be, "No. My finger." "Am I this hand?" The answer will be, "No, it is my hand." Then where is "I"? That is... If you can study "I," then it is scientific. Simply "my" is not scientific. That is, child knows "It is my finger."
Indian guest: Yes, but, I mean, it is a further word(?) to study oneself.
Prabhupāda: That further means when you come to the conclusion that "I am spirit soul." If you can understand this, then it is scientific. If you remain in ignorance, that "I am this body," that is not scientific. Actually, I am not this body. Everyone can understand. Just like a dead man. Suppose some of your relatives has died. You are crying, "Oh, my friend has gone. My friend has gone." Your friend is lying there. Why you say that "My friend has gone"? What is the answer? If I say... The dead body, you are crying, "Oh, my relative has gone. My father is gone." I say, "Where he has gone? He is there. Why you are crying?" Then what will be your answer?
Indian guest: No, I mean that that is the ultimate scheme for...
Prabhupāda: But that you understand, that that... What is that? What is that? You have never seen your father or friend. You have seen this body. Now you are crying, "Now he has gone." Where he has gone? You have seen the body all along. That is lying here. Why you say he has gone? What is your answer? This is ignorance. All along I am seeing the false thing: "He is my father; I am the body." But he's not my father. Actually, when father, my, goes away from this body, I cry, "Oh, my father has gone." Where he has gone? His, the body is there. This is ignorance. It is not scientific. Because I'm thinking, "I am this body," this is not scientific. This is ignorance. So in this way you have to study. But the answer is there in the Vedic literature: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). "My father has accepted another body." This is scientific. Dhīra, one who is sober, he is not lamenting. Just like your child, from babyhood it becomes grown-up, or acts in another way. You are not crying, "Where is that body of my child, that baby body? Where he has gone?" But you know that he has transferred to this body. Similarly, when you get this knowledge that "My father has left this body, he has accepted another body, although it is not visible," that is knowledge. That is scientific.
Indian guest: Yes, but by average person it is very difficult to reach the light...
Prabhupāda: But therefore he has to study. Every rascal, fool, he has to study. There is education. Therefore Vedic literature is there. If you don't study and you see... If you say, "I am scientific advanced," then what is this nonsense? If you have no knowledge, if you have not studied, why do you say unscientific? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)